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How hard (or easy) will it be to earn DAC?

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36 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

...or (when implemented) use [DACs] for transactions from a store not linked to the in game economy.

Problem with that is that you make DACs a premium currency instead of game time, in a subscription based game. There is a very fine line you will have to walk on there...

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It's what happens in EVE with the skins.. Although PLEX was split to allow for it to be used for micro-transactions. 

 

PLEX can be used for in game purposes only when it is not located in the 'PLEX vault' which IMO a good way of working this. To use PLEX for buying ship skins, clothing or other trinkets the amount of PLEX needed must actually be available in the vault. This mechanic IMO provides a good separation between in game use and game related use outside of the game economy. Obviously by buying stuff in the store you do bring those into the game as assets.

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I like the idea of DAC being lootable, but I think there needs to be a way to store them safely. Without that, you run into problems in situations like with the backers: you're given a bunch of DAC, but don't know what you're going to do with them. You don't necessarily want to use them to extend your game time way into the future, nor do you necessarily want to sell them for quanta right off the bat. You're left with this valuable resource without an immediate use (that you paid money for), that could be stolen away before it's utilized.

 

Really, it's just a can of worms. It may ultimately be better to make them non-lootable. You miss out on the possibly of video game heists involving items bought with real money (which is neat), but it avoids a lot of awkward situations. As long as you make sure other things ARE lootable in the supply chain needed to trade for DAC, then you minimize the loss of gameplay. So you might not be able to steal DAC directly, but you can still steal the gold bars someone's hauling to trade for DAC.

 

Edit: you need to make sure the game has some high value-density items worth hauling if you want piracy to be a thing. If people do lots of little trades of relatively low-value things to afford their DAC, then there's never a worthwhile big-score target for pirates to go after. Similar situation with mega-freighters hauling massive quantities of low-value stuff. The whole load might be worth a lot, but it's highly impractical to steal. You need items that are relatively small, but worth a lot and are easy to sell / use for piracy to be worth the risk.

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That's a NO !  100% NO ! So you want to put a feature in the game that lets you steal from people that paid money for there subscriptions ! OMG really ? Have you really thought this one out ? Your player base would drop so fast you can just close this one out to most because it will become a griefers wet dream ! Please pay more money for DAC's so I can just keep killing you and taking your money / real money ! I will be waiting for you at the spawn location to come out of the protected area with love !  XOXO

 

I have ben doing a little research and checking out games that have large building  community and when this game has ben brought up they love it but don't like the idea of having there built creations destroyed or some random guy just killing them for fun and now a suggested way to rob people for real ? Which is a shame because some of these builders have some fantastic building skills ! I and others have explained that they can stay in the safe zone and not worry about the hazards but they feel the safe zones will be too small and if they did venture out it will not end well ! 

 

One solution for those builders would be a added creative mode and some games are starting to add this feature so I hope NQ / DU will add this feature later and maybe me and others will be able to persuade these types of builder with fantastic skills to join DU and share there works !

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6 hours ago, GunDeva said:

That's a NO !  100% NO ! So you want to put a feature in the game that lets you steal from people that paid money for there subscriptions ! OMG really ? Have you really thought this one out ? Your player base would drop so fast you can just close this one out to most because it will become a griefers wet dream ! Please pay more money for DAC's so I can just keep killing you and taking your money / real money ! I will be waiting for you at the spawn location to come out of the protected area with love !  XOXO

 

I have ben doing a little research and checking out games that have large building  community and when this game has ben brought up they love it but don't like the idea of having there built creations destroyed or some random guy just killing them for fun and now a suggested way to rob people for real ? Which is a shame because some of these builders have some fantastic building skills ! I and others have explained that they can stay in the safe zone and not worry about the hazards but they feel the safe zones will be too small and if they did venture out it will not end well ! 

 

One solution for those builders would be a added creative mode and some games are starting to add this feature so I hope NQ / DU will add this feature later and maybe me and others will be able to persuade these types of builder with fantastic skills to join DU and share there works !

 

just look at EVE. PLEX there are PERFECTLY safe when you buy them ingame to pay your sub with them. You just CAN'T screw up. BUT if you want to TRADE them to earn more money with them ingame, you have to ship them - at which point they can be stolen. Seems totally fair to me.

 

Plus: that creative mode will possibly only be for building / creating your blueprint. If you want to build that thing in the "real" world of DU, you still need to do that either in a safezone OR in a territory you own, protected by a shield.

This is NOT a building simulator where everybody is best friends - this is an emergent MMO with conflicts, wars and destruction too.

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8 hours ago, GunDeva said:

That's a NO !  100% NO ! So you want to put a feature in the game that lets you steal from people that paid money for there subscriptions ! OMG really ? 

 

I have ben doing a little research and checking out games that have large building  community and when this game has ben brought up they love it but don't like the idea of having there built creations destroyed or some random guy just killing them for fun and now a suggested way to rob people for real ?

 

DAC should be in a safe place unless you _choose_ to carry it on you or have it stored in a construct you built at which time you open yourself up to the possibility of it dropping when attacked/destroyed/killed. That's how (full) loot works and if people can't take that they should buy a box of legos to build stuff.

 

As a noob starting out in EVE I was foolish enough to buy a PLEX, redeem it at my home station and then fly it out to a major trade hub as I needed to sell it. No clue (yet as to the meaning of wardecs either ;) ... On the way I got killed by a war target and the plex dropped for the other guy to pick it up.. That's a mistake many make and mostly only make once :P .. It's also absolutely and perfectly acceptable IMO (although there was a lot of noob salt and tears at the time).

 

So yes, DAC should be lootable once you as the player make the choice to put it at risk by carrying it around. At the same time there has to be an option/mechanic to safely store DAC which is not redeemed yet, most obviously in your account and not accessible in game (until redeemed).

 

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From Nyzaltar's OP, we get the following:

Quote

For the official release, the DAC system at the moment is supposed to be pretty simple: A player buy a DAC on the payment portal, he choose the character on which he want to drop the DAC and a moment later, the player can find the DAC in the character inventory.

It is also clear that NQ's original plan was to have DAC be unlootable items in the player inventory.

 

But due to player demand from the current community, NQ have undertaken to implement a "redemption system" similar to EVE's, where a "redeemed DAC" will be lootable. HOWEVER, due to the considerable extra dev time required, they cannot guarantee that it will be in place at launch.

 

But what about the DAC associated with pledges ?

Will those DAC be a "credit" on the payment portal, which can be assigned on-demand and in varying quantities to a character of your choice at any time ?

Or will they all be dumped into the inventory of the first character you create ?

 

Absent a fully functional redemption system at launch, DAC's should remain unlootable until the required redemption mechanics are implemented.

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29 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

From Nyzaltar's OP, we get the following:

It is also clear that NQ's original plan was to have DAC be unlootable items in the player inventory.

 

But due to player demand from the current community, NQ have undertaken to implement a "redemption system" similar to EVE's, where a "redeemed DAC" will be lootable. HOWEVER, due to the considerable extra dev time required, they cannot guarantee that it will be in place at launch.

 

But what about the DAC associated with pledges ?

Will those DAC be a "credit" on the payment portal, which can be assigned on-demand and in varying quantities to a character of your choice at any time ?

Or will they all be dumped into the inventory of the first character you create ?

 

Absent a fully functional redemption system at launch, DAC's should remain unlootable until the required redemption mechanics are implemented.

 

A redemption system as in eve is all you really need.

 

But i agree, DACs shall remain unlootable until that is implemented

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The redemption system sounds like a better plan and even if some games  have this feature the loot system mechanism was usually use on killing NPC or monster  mobs and not other players !

 

I guess it would be ok if you remember not to carry loot able items on you but personally it seem like a insult to injury tactic to me : not only did you get killed but you where also looted so I hope the bounty system might help counter this because I see so many ways this tactic could go wrong . 

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I have never played eve. So, i am unaware of the plex system.

I have seen in a previous post NQ said DACS will be not be lootable in the  beginning. Still,  my vote would be for them to stay unlootable. Why are they anything but virtual anyways?  (and yes, I also saw it was so play time  could be earned through playing)

Credits, I have not seen an explanation of them yet, I am fairly new to the forums. If credits are the actual in-game currency, they should certainly be lootable.

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Eh, guilds will probably set up tiny vault constructs in the safezones of the respective planets* and do things via bookkeeping and wealth transfers between the planetary vaults, regardless of locality of the trade. Kind of like your current bank account works, the money is anywhere but close to you or the merchant. Yet if you go into the supermarket and buy things, it still works and everyone's happy.

 

(*: If there's none, it'll happen all around Alioth's one.)

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Sorry if this has been discussed to death elsewhere, and if so, feel free to direct me there, but I'm just wondering how hard it will be to get DAC, so that you can pay for a subscription over a certain period, and then stop paying.  If it is easy, I wonder how this will be a long term sustainable financial model for the company, and how they will monetize things if everyone can just earn a subscription by doing some simple tasks in game.  If they are harder to get, I am worried that that is all people will focus on doing.  I don't know enough about the economy system yet, so I'm not sure if there will be set prices or if it will be player determined prices, but I would think that the concept of DAC would lead to farming, for the purpose of hoarding DAC, and that whole businesses would be built around obtaining and selling this commodity that is not even related to the actual gameplay.

 

So how will DAC work overall, and how will NQ address some of my concerns above?

 

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@BlorgonSlayer My understanding is that DACs will only be purchasable with IRL money.  Then they can be traded inside the game.  So their value will be set by the market forces around how much the people who purchase them provide them with value.  I realize this doesn't directly answer your question, but it's likely the only information available currently.

Edited by Felonu
typo

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3 minutes ago, Felonu said:

@BlorgonSlayer My understanding is that DACs will only be purchasable with IRL money.  Then they can be traded inside the game.  So their value will be set by the market forces around how much the people who purchase them provide them with value.  I realize this doesn't directly answer your question, but it's likely the only information available currently.

So I guess if this is the case, it would end up being a very rare commodity, that people would sell for a very high price in game.  I guess this allays my concerns, so long as it's not something you can farm or hoard, and that is in very scarce supply overall.  From what I read, they made it seem like you could just earn it in game, making paying a real world subscription obsolete.  I guess technically this is true, but only once you've gotten yourself really well established with enough credits to buy them, and also only if you can find them for sale.  I'd imagine them to be a very hot commodity.

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Bob has no time - just 1 hour per day for DU.
Max plays 12 hours DU per Day.

Bob's idea: Build a large Ship
Bob's problem: No Ressources.

Max's problem: No money for the next month

Now Bob will sell a DAC to Max.

Both are happy.




It will work. it does work in other games too.

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It can be easy, it can be hard. IT can be common, it can be rare. IT can be fast, it can be long. We still dont know how the economic will work and how will resource gather will be so the right answer for you not exits. 

But a rough answer already here. Like UnderhandAerial example, that is how DAC will get in DU.

The price of DAC will not so high but also will not so low, the cost for it will determine by the player if they see it fit.

Also how you get DAC one part is in you. Get more connection, be someone friendly and he will buy your resource all time with his DAC. Or with speech skill to barter and get right price. Or scam (i highly not recommended this) to get DAC. All is up to you too.

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43 minutes ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

So I guess if this is the case, it would end up being a very rare commodity, that people would sell for a very high price in game.  I guess this allays my concerns, so long as it's not something you can farm or hoard, and that is in very scarce supply overall.  From what I read, they made it seem like you could just earn it in game, making paying a real world subscription obsolete.  I guess technically this is true, but only once you've gotten yourself really well established with enough credits to buy them, and also only if you can find them for sale.  I'd imagine them to be a very hot commodity.

Just look at Eve online and Plex prices.

 

It depends on supply and demand how much you'll end up paying. 

In Du, since there is no classical pve like npc missions, ingame money will be worth more than compared to eve. How much ppl will ask for a DAC depends on the Economy and can't be foreseen yet.

 

NQ makes even more RL money If many ppl use DACs as a DAC will be sold for around 18€. A sub only costs around 10-14€. 

 

I made 5 plex in eve per month with about an hour of work per day, just for comparison.

 

Ofc it'll be harder in the beginning in Du because there's no infrastructure, well organized markets, economy isn't running smoothly and so on. 

So it's hard to tell really but I assume every somewhat intelligent player can easily earn a DAC per month

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4 minutes ago, Falstaf said:

Honestly @Lethys I'd hope not! :lol:

 

The idea is still for NQ to make enough money to run and develop the game. 

well that's the idea. A DAC is worth more RL money - so if someone plays for free (in using DAC), someone ELSE had to buy the DAC first from NQ. That's why they make more money than with a sub

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2 minutes ago, Lethys said:

well that's the idea. A DAC is worth more RL money - so if someone plays for free (in using DAC), someone ELSE had to buy the DAC first from NQ. That's why they make more money than with a sub

True, I keep forgetting it needs to be bought from NQ first. And they aren't cheap. ;)

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lethys said:

NQ makes even more RL money If many ppl use DACs as a DAC will be sold for around 18€. A sub only costs around 10-14€. 

So if DAC is more expensive than sub price, why would anyone buy it IRL in the first place?  This doesn't make sense to me.

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17 minutes ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

So if DAC is more expensive than sub price, why would anyone buy it IRL in the first place?  This doesn't make sense to me.

They would buy for the purpose to sell or trade for goods or services in the game. Someone who has alot of money but not a lot of time would find it easier to buy a DAC and trade it for a ship as opposed to paying with ingame currency or building 

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2 hours ago, UnderhandAerial said:

Bob has no time - just 1 hour per day for DU.
Max plays 12 hours DU per Day.

Bob's idea: Build a large Ship
Bob's problem: No Ressources.

Max's problem: No money for the next month

Now Bob will sell a DAC to Max.

Both are happy.




It will work. it does work in other games too.

here @BlorgonSlayer. see that example

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19 minutes ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

So if DAC is more expensive than sub price, why would anyone buy it IRL in the first place?  This doesn't make sense to me.

This is by design as DAC are meant for people that want to trade the DACs for quanta (ingame currency) inside the game and not to replace a direct subscription purchase.  

 

Edit: ninja'd :/

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