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How hard (or easy) will it be to earn DAC?

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This basically one person arguing against the many. Maybe time to end the thread? Twerker keeps making same point over and over.... How about some new perspectives from others? What makes having DAC lootable so much more emergent than looting regular items. Then why stop at DAC? Why not game money...master blueprints....literally everything? Turn this game into the disasters like DayZ and the like where the few hardcore players remain and the rest move on to "Carebear" games where they don't feel like they're being robbed by Gankers and hackers. Because we know, it's proven time and time again,these are the same mentality that do anything to win.

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In my opinion the best compromise I have read so far (somewhere) is to make DAC bind on pick up ish.

 

Player A buys DAC from NQ.

Player A sells DAC to player B.

Player B can only use DAC for game time.

Player B will not be able to resell it.

 

This solves everything as far as I can tell. Player A gets his in game currency.

Player B gets his game time. And DAC will be used for what its intended. To pay for game time.

 

Everybody wins.

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As a "Gold Founder," I'm starting the game with 20+ DAC's; about half I'll use for game time, and half I'll sell later (depending on my immediate needs and market fluctuations). I don't want to lose those DAC's! If they're lootable won't I be targeted as soon as I leave the safe Zone? I mean, between my Alpha suit and level 2 pet, wont everyone know I'm a gold founder and just target me as a walking DAC box?

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I would be fine with a system where the person that bought the DAC couldn't drop it upon death or by accident aka dragging it outside inventory screen dropping it on the ground, but you could if you wanted too give or sell it via a trade window/auctionhouse to another player and as soon as you did the DAC became a part of the world and would be dropable/sellable by anyone.

 

I do prefer if the DAC's weren't a part of the physical world and would just exist on the market, i buy it for real money from NQ it goes up on the market and someone buys with gold and i get the gold they get play time.

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Another thing about comparison. EVE and DU / PLEX and DAC.

 

EVE allow player buy ship instantly, so PLEX could be easy named as "Pay to Win".

DU allow sell DAC for "ingame money", then buy resources and modules (if there are enough on market). Then player need to create ship from blueprint (which will take ??? time).

 

Yes, it looks like small difference, but how many resources you need to create ship, how many modules, how many rare parts, how many basic resources for armour? Player need to know, player need to buy, player need to carry (under question). How long it will take time to create big ship? I don't think few minutes.

 

So I won't call DAC Pay-to-Win. DAC is Pay-For-Time / Pay-to-Skip (save time, no grind). Same as players want to pay for "Jobs", difference is payment method only.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

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Hi everyone,

 

It seems the basic rules of this thread have been vastly ignored.

In return, all posts who weren't following these rules have been archived.

 

So as a reminder, I repost it there:

 

As we know many of you are passionate about the topic, there will be a few rules, to keep the thread clean and clear, easy to read:

- No Meme.
- Explain only in one post your point of view (and edit it if you want to add something). Of course this doesn't count for replying on further Novaquark posts in the thread.
- No flaming, no provocation toward any other participant of the topic.
If some these rules are broken, your post might be edited or removed without warning.

 

If you want to present cases that illustrate your point of view, do it in your post.

If you think a case raised by another player is not relevant, you can do it, but do it in your post by explaining why as shortly and clearly as possible.

Don't reply to each other each time someone says something, this inflates the topic, making the task to keep in check what are the most important points difficult.

 

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Best regards,

Nyzaltar.

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First and foremost DAC represent a real world "investment" and as such should not be loot-able. It should be protected 100% and easier to access from anywhere in the game world for the buyer of said DAC.

 

A second hand market where DAC's are vulnerable to theft could be a good thing, but too prevent asshats from manipulating the DAC market and there by hurting the entire community and company some form of limits should be enforced, maybe a mini hacking game where you can steal the DAC from people that has hoarded  more then X amount, you know pvp is pvp im sure they would not mind.

 

In the end, the first buyer should be protected 100% no questions asked.

 

edit: maybe this is out of the scope of  this discussion, but theft and destruction will be keyfactors in how many and what kind of players we will get.

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This is my TL;DR to a discussion on this topic, part of which is quoted in the OP. 

TL;DR

Lootable DAC's, but implemented in a way that there is no use risking DAC's from the start of the game. Make them easily traded within the planet/star system without any risk. After a few years/many months, there becomes a need to transport DAC (risking them) to new planets/star systems. This creates gameplay around DAC's being lootable. It creates a market that charges premiums for transported DAC's, but provides a means for players to acquire cheaper DAC's in safe zones. This creates more gameplay (aside from transporting/trading/providing security), as players need to travel (public transportation) between systems to retrieve their discounted DAC, unless the decide to pay a premium for DAC already in their system. 

 

___________________________________________________________________________________

 

To elaborate on this:

 

I think a lootable system noted above, where players are safe to trade within the planet, would be beneficial to NQ and the community in the long run. It's clear that a lower supply will increase the price of a product. In-game, we would see DAC prices on newly established planets be much higher than the starting planet. It's a fair assumption that people who migrate to the new planet would need to purchase DAC's after a certain amount of time. So, they either pony up and pay the premium, hitch a ride back to lower-DAC planet, or pay NQ directly in real money. So it looks like this:

  1. Pony up and pay premium: Everyone makes out. The buyer, knowing he was going to a new planet, took a risk at having to pay a premium for DAC's. Such is life (quite literally, that's how it would work). The seller makes out like a bandit, but deserves it! He/she had to risk DAC's on a lootable transit. But with risk comes reward (or ruin). And, in the end, it's better for NQ, because players remain in the game and there is a greater desire for the sellers to purchase DAC's for resale, because there is a lucrative market. Yes, if they were nonlootable each player would still be playing. But that last point, about the lucrative market, is an important one.
  2. Hitch a ride back: Obviously, the player can't be stranded on the planet. They would need to be allowed to travel back to the Arkship on the new planet, and get a ride back to the low-cost DAC planet. Even when he/she has no game time left. But, that's easily implemented--allow the player to walk around and board craft, but not be able to interact with anything but a Market. This would be a great way to allow people to check out what's going on in DU, but require the purchase of DAC's in order to partake in anything but looking around. As noted above, in the TL;DR, this promotes transit as a career, which is better for the community, which is better for NQ.
  3. Pay NQ: Well, no reason to go into this one....

 

I'm a big proponent for lootable DAC's but I'm certainly not looking to screw over some poor schleb leaving the Arkship when the game goes live. That simply can't and won't happen. But, that doesn't mean there is no other way to implement lootable DAC's. You just have to be creative. 

 

Edit--

 

And, in the meantime, players who don't want to bear any risk can buy/sell DAC's all they want in save environment. Back on the starter planet. And, over time, the once "new" planets, that are now estblished, become eligible for DAC's to be purchased right on the planet. This would bring equalibrium across the markets, for those deemed eligible to purchase DAC's right on the planet.

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DACs should not be loot-able or trad-able.

They shouldn't be loot-able because I do not want to pay RL money for a brief in-game experience, having them stolen.

They shouldn't be trad-able because that creates a P2W scenario in which you can just buy whatever you want with RL money and not have to work for it in-game. Also would open it up the gold sellers to make RL money off of them, ie. farm credits -buy DACs -sell for RL money, which translates to less money for Dev's.
 

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Also would open it up the gold sellers to make RL money off of them, ie. farm credits -buy DACs -sell for RL money, which translates to less money for Dev's.

 

 

To my understanding DACS have to be bough outside the game first, so NQ is payed up front.

 

So if someone wants to grind ingame credit to buy them, good for them. NQ has been paid, ingame work has been done.

 

If someone then wants to buy a DACS 3rd hand with RL money, good for them. As a bonus they might get some awesome ransomware and stuff like that

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To simply add another voice to the choir before the devs rightfully decides to lock this memefest.

 

I do not see the point of using DACs for "emergent gameplay" for the sake of it - whatever the consequences it would lead to letting it be lootable. The whole game idea and vision seeps with "emergent gameplay". There is no point of throwing DACs in there too.

 

The DACs is a wonderful idea, allowing players to buy game-time with in-game means thus rewarding players and tying the in-game economy to the real meta one.

 

However, I do not see the point of making DACs lootable. "Emergent gameplay" is about enjoyable game content, created by players - for players. Not punishing players, least of all with losing real life money and investment. I myself am perfectcly, more than, happy having the DACs in my inventory as unlootable objects.

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If DACs are lootable, then so should regular currency.

DACs are objects in game, currency is not. For someone to sell the DAC they bought for real money in the market, theyn eed to make it into an item in-game first. Also, currency is a player's progress in the game, either in asset form or currency form.

 

 

 

To simply add another voice to the choir before the devs rightfully decides to lock this memefest.

 

I do not see the point of using DACs for "emergent gameplay" for the sake of it - whatever the consequences it would lead to letting it be lootable. The whole game idea and vision seeps with "emergent gameplay". There is no point of throwing DACs in there too.

 

The DACs is a wonderful idea, allowing players to buy game-time with in-game means thus rewarding players and tying the in-game economy to the real meta one.

 

However, I do not see the point of making DACs lootable. "Emergent gameplay" is about enjoyable game content, created by players - for players. Not punishing players, least of all with losing real life money and investment. I myself am perfectcly, more than, happy having the DACs in my inventory as unlootable objects.

DACs are not innately lootable. They are turned into an item, then sold for in-game cash. The lootable part comes into play, if the player that bought the DAC for in-game money, tries to resell or hoard said DAC for later on. The player who bought the DAC with in-game money is the one who is affected by the lootable part. And let's be honest, the player that actually wants the DAC for its extra gametime, will consume the DAC on the spot, not hoard it, so the ones who actually need it are covered as well.

 

Now, if you are goiing to trade DACs in the premises of a place equivalent to a war zone, then that's your fault, not the company's fault for making it lootable. The only reason PLEX is not considered Pay2Win in EVE, is because it is lootable. And when it is actually looted, it's because someone hoarded PLEX (EVE's DAC) and tried to resell them later on, only to be intercepted by pirates in-game. Bad luck, sure, but it's what makes PLEX not Pay2Win.

 

What I'm saying is, sell the DACs inside a safe zone, in fact, sell ANYTHING in a safe zone. It guarantees you won't be mugged on sight.

 

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Seems like you can just turn DACs into digital coupons ala digital currency in the game.

 

Weak argument is weak.  I stand by my argument that if DACs are lost, so should currency.

 

I also understand the argument that hoarding DACs is a lot like hoarding a commodity, so I do see where you're coming from.  Just don't think it warrants being lootable on death.  

 

Ultimately, I don't see it being much of an issue either way.  What's to stop someone from just hoarding their DACs in a safezone?  Just don't see the point of lootable DACs is all ^^

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Seems like you can just turn DACs into digital coupons ala digital currency in the game.

 

Weak argument is weak.  I stand by my argument that if DACs are lost, so should currency.

 

I also understand the argument that hoarding DACs is a lot like hoarding a commodity, so I do see where you're coming from.  Just don't think it warrants being lootable on death.  

 

Ultimately, I don't see it being much of an issue either way.  What's to stop someone from just hoarding their DACs in a safezone?  Just don't see the point of lootable DACs is all ^^

That's a good arguement. The answer to that is "which safezone?"

 

The Arkship being the starting zone / system, will see its local market being very poor , since little to no high-end materials will be produced there, once good ol' industrialism takes roots. That's why the Devs don't focus on the DAC redemption system for the moment - at least, that's my suspicion - since they know they need to create a precedence for the trading of DAC. Having them being lootable in the first year of the game, won't help with that.

 

So no, selling DACs in the Arkship would be the same as opening up a Porsche retailer group in a 5 million USD GDP country. And DACs are suaually costly.

 

So the totally immune starting Safezone is out of question. Hauling will happen, as people will have to mail the DAC to the buyers via space-trucker means or couriers (you don't need a spacetruck for a coupon :P ) . So the hoarding of DACs in the Arkship, is safe, as long as the buyer comes to the Arkship to get the DAC and I can't see people bothering doing that, since it would defuse the point of couriers in the first place. Remember, the Arkship won't have any good materials after the six months period. It's going to be a barren system in the sense of rare mineral. No space-trucker would bother looking up its regional market to see if they can buy anything to sell in another market, as the only minerals that would be there will be the regenerating , common ones, on Allioth, something the Devs have confirmed.

 

The other safezones, the artificial " protection bubble " have been said to be "difficult to overcome" RDMS-wise. And in those bubbles is where the actually rich trading hubs will be, which would need player security to create legitimacy in the playerbase to begin with. The space between them hubs? That's where pirates will operate.

 

If you were to sell a DAC in a poor market for, let's say, 1.000 spacebucks and in another market, the DAC is being sold for 1.300 spacebucks, I would have to haul said DAC from the market you sell it, to the market I need to sell it That's where the lootable DAC comes into place.

 

The original buyer (you) got my in-game money for the DAC price you set, you are 100% covered, now it's me and the pirates to compete for the DAC itselft :P

 

And that's the fine balance of the DAC being lootable. As for thei n-game currency, remember, there's no actual "leveling" system, money are the only way of keeping track of one's progress in the game, either in assets (buildings, ships, land etc. ) or in a currency format of "I got more zeros in my wallet than you bruh, I'm l33t".

 

But, that being said, an organisation "Wallet" terminal Unit, which acts as a bank for the organisation's money, should be in the game and it SHOULD be hackable. It would create a nice emergent Payday gameplay.

 

 

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Agreed, for the most part.

 

However, from my perspective progress can be seen through the skills you have leveled. Which is directly related to how long you have been playing. Of course, assets (including currency) play into progression if you safeguard them. Having lootable currency would mean a player would be "forced" to use a bank or some safe storage while keeping just enough on them for their operations.

 

Perhaps, since the currency is indeed digital... an intruder could attempt to hack into your coffers somehow. Perhaps useable currency is linked to a digital account that can only be accessed through a terminal on your active ship. Or something of that matter. If the ship still had power, you could try and dig into that.

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Agreed, for the most part.

 

However, from my perspective progress can be seen through the skills you have leveled. Which is directly related to how long you have been playing. Of course, assets (including currency) play into progression if you safeguard them. Having lootable currency would mean a player would be "forced" to use a bank or some safe storage while keeping just enough on them for their operations.

 

Perhaps, since the currency is indeed digital... an intruder could attempt to hack into your coffers somehow. Perhaps useable currency is linked to a digital account that can only be accessed through a terminal on your active ship. Or something of that matter. If the ship still had power, you could try and dig into that.

I would have to disagree. A trader's skillset and an industrialist's skillset do not operate on the same foundation.

 

A trader's money-making tool are the established markets and his/hers broker relation in each market (a broker in our case is the owner of the market the trader oeprates). The skills of the trader are based on :

 

1) funds

 

2) marketing knowledge

 

3) inside knowledge of events, i.e. if a trader knows a war is coming, then goes to the invaded territory and buys all of the supply of ammunitions in the market and / or the materiasl to make said ammunition, then charges triple to make a profit. That's called cutthroat tactics.

 

These things can't be taken away (easily), the whole economy would have to collapse for the trader to lose his progression, which inherently is not even something the trader pursued actively, since the trader may have started the game 3 years after launch and got lucky with their social interactions.

 

An industrialist though, has : 

 

1) assets (factories, machinery, land, quarrys, etc. )

 

2) blueprints, scematics (some of which they had to buy for a huge cost as a master blueprint)

 

3) material costs, shareholders (yes, that's an actual thing, you can sell shares of your corporation ,check the Devblog on the organisations). 

 

If you take away one these, the rest follow suit.

 

 

So you can see, the trader and the industrialist don't play on the same field. Having one of them being possibly robbed of their in-game money, is making the game more about killing on sight, than actually developing civilisation. And while civilisation is not tied with money, society is though. And you can't have a stable society, if everyone around you is thinking "I can kill that guy to get their spacebucks".

 

 

As of the coffers idea, that's what I suggest for organsiations, so not one person has the organisation's money on themselves.

 

Heck, Lua script the darn thing to not allow for money withdrawl without a three-person authentication process. But for players it seems odd. Like, the cerebral implants in the lore can download hecktons of data into your mind, kinesthetic knowledge mind you, which is experience in digital form when it comes to a profession, which means the implant in which the money are stored is insanely massive as of the data it can hold in itself. Encrypted currecnies (like the digital currency in DU) does not weigh much to begin with byte-wise and the cerebral implant is not lootable, since its the thing the Res-Nodes home onto when they pull you through the multiverse to save you before death.

 

 

So yeah, the lootable DAC and the currency in asset form are operating on the same principle.

 

Your DAC is safe for a person who bought it with real money, but not for the person who wants to resell it as a trading asset (trader gameplay) and the industrial that may bought the DAC with real money to sell it in-game is covered as of their spacebucks' worth of the DAC in-game, but they are not 100% safe if they use said money to build a factory, because factories tend to blow up... somehow. >.>

 

The currency is essentially, as I said earlier, a "save" in a single-player game. You worked your brains off for a day, you made 100 million spacebucks by being a market shark, you got 100 million in your wallet, as a checkpoint of sorts that nobody can take away but you.  

 

 

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Umm, just by going off of what you have given.

 

Trader's have:

1.) . Funds (cannot be stolen)

2.)  Marketing knowledge (cannot be stolen)

3.)  Inside knowledge (cannot be stolen)

 

Industrialists:

1.) Assets (can be taken by force)

2.) Blueprints (Usually can't be stolen, as they use them but if in commodity form they can be stolen right?)

3.) Material costs (can't really be stolen)

 

I would go one step further and add 4.) Commodities to each.  For the trader, it is what they physically bring from point a to point b.  Which can obviously be stolen.  The industrialist has commodities that they produce, which can be taken by force along with the assets.

 

Now, with all this set on the table... being an industrialist is far more perilous than a trader.  Most everything can be stolen, whereas trader's have very little risk.  To be fair though, I don't see how any of this pertains to the question at hand.  It really doesn't.

 

As for a kill all society, I don't think that is what would play out.  I'm personally under the impression, that if it's like any other PvP MMO I've played... there will be coalitions of organizations out to protect eachother's interests.  As for the lonewolf (like myself) they will keep their active currency at a bear minimum, while creating as much fortitude as they can with their active (stealable) currency.  Trusting in safe storages to keep the rest secure.

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Umm, just by going off of what you have given.

 

Trader's have:

1.) . Funds (cannot be stolen)

2.)  Marketing knowledge (cannot be stolen)

3.)  Inside knowledge (cannot be stolen)

 

Industrialists:

1.) Assets (can be taken by force)

2.) Blueprints (Usually can't be stolen, as they use them but if in commodity form they can be stolen right?)

3.) Material costs (can't really be stolen)

 

I would go one step further and add 4.) Commodities to each.  For the trader, it is what they physically bring from point a to point b.  Which can obviously be stolen.  The industrialist has commodities that they produce, which can be taken by force along with the assets.

 

Now, with all this set on the table... being an industrialist is far more perilous than a trader.  Most everything can be stolen, whereas trader's have very little risk.  To be fair though, I don't see how any of this pertains to the question at hand.  It really doesn't.

 

As for a kill all society, I don't think that is what would play out.  I'm personally under the impression, that if it's like any other PvP MMO I've played... there will be coalitions of organizations out to protect eachother's interests.  As for the lonewolf (like myself) they will keep their active currency at a bear minimum, while creating as much fortitude as they can with their active (stealable) currency.  Trusting in safe storages to keep the rest secure.

Well, both the industrialist and the trader require effort on their part, one with building a factory and managing it, and the other on building connections to get lower taxes, etcetera. That EFFORT is why the currency needs to be unlootable. Assets, as you put it, are a risk into this, industry or cargo, a ship or a DAC (that has been hoarded in a physical form by buying it off a person who bought it with IRL money). And as JC said, the game is indeed about risk and reward (Markeedragon interview on youtube). The risk is in the asset (items, constructs, etcetera) the reward is in the currency you built up along the way... only to turn into assets again, hence risk, which brings us back to my earlier statement of it being a checkpoint for a player's progress.

 

Skillpoints invested into Industry for example, mean nothing if you do not have the assets to utilise them, just like a pilot's skillpoints mean nothing if they have no ship to fly. Both require funds, funds that need to be unlootable, at least on a single avatar level, organisations should be requiring a "wallet" sorta unit to keep their money in. I rest my case at that.

 

And let's be real here, your organisation, you can trust to not kill you on sight, but others? How will a spacetrucker go to a foreign market to buy low and sell high, if the moment he exits the ship he is killed? That would be the nail to the coffin of hauling. See, there's a reason EVE doesn't allow for money to drop on death. It would kill the trade completely, let alone having no "checkpoints" for progression.

 

However, the possibility of an investment type of firm, that's acting like switzerland (technically a bank that invests your money efficiently to make more money), is not out of the question. That would be the reason to buy shares in a reputable investment firm a.k.a. traders of high skill to make your money increase while they get a cut of the profit. That, combined with the idea of having organisation "coffers" for the currency, would make said firms into banks, that players ACTUALLY have a good reason to keep as much money in them as possible, instead of the currency being lootable, therefore making the banks more of a neccessity, rather than a clever investment. And yes, I know, an investment firm would have to be RDMS'd for unanimous vote for disbanding or any decision and would require the RDMS to have a limit on how much money a broker can withdraw daily to keep playing the market, but it's not something that's out of reach. If I could do such thing in WoW, I bet it can be done in DUAL as well :P 

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Well, both the industrialist and the trader require effort on their part, one with building a factory and managing it, and the other on building connections to get lower taxes, etcetera. That EFFORT is why the currency needs to be unlootable. Assets, as you put it, are a risk into this, industry or cargo, a ship or a DAC (that has been hoarded in a physical form by buying it off a person who bought it with IRL money). And as JC said, the game is indeed about risk and reward (Markeedragon interview on youtube). The risk is in the asset (items, constructs, etcetera) the reward is in the currency you built up along the way... only to turn into assets again, hence risk, which brings us back to my earlier statement of it being a checkpoint for a player's progress.

 

Skillpoints invested into Industry for example, mean nothing if you do not have the assets to utilise them, just like a pilot's skillpoints mean nothing if they have no ship to fly. Both require funds, funds that need to be unlootable, at least on a single avatar level, organisations should be requiring a "wallet" sorta unit to keep their money in. I rest my case at that.

 

And let's be real here, your organisation, you can trust to not kill you on sight, but others? How will a spacetrucker go to a foreign market to buy low and sell high, if the moment he exits the ship he is killed? That would be the nail to the coffin of hauling. See, there's a reason EVE doesn't allow for money to drop on death. It would kill the trade completely, let alone having no "checkpoints" for progression.

 

However, the possibility of an investment type of firm, that's acting like switzerland (technically a bank that invests your money efficiently to make more money), is not out of the question. That would be the reason to buy shares in a reputable investment firm a.k.a. traders of high skill to make your money increase while they get a cut of the profit. That, combined with the idea of having organisation "coffers" for the currency, would make said firms into banks, that players ACTUALLY have a good reason to keep as much money in them as possible, instead of the currency being lootable, therefore making the banks more of a neccessity, rather than a clever investment. And yes, I know, an investment firm would have to be RDMS'd for unanimous vote for disbanding or any decision and would require the RDMS to have a limit on how much money a broker can withdraw daily to keep playing the market, but it's not something that's out of reach. If I could do such thing in WoW, I bet it can be done in DUAL as well :P 

 

 

You act like the moment you die, you lose all your money.  That wouldn't be the case, as far as I'm concerned.  The thing is, for traders... there is very little risk vs. rewards.  They carry half the reward all the time, whereas industrialists carry the full risk all the time.  Just saying they don't add up ^^

 

How I want things to be:

1.)  You carry operational currency, tied to a digital account.  The rest sits in a bank back home, or wherever... someplace safe.  The lore behind this is that, how would you keep track of how much money someone has from planet to planet?  That communication would not be instantaneous.  This means the player needs to have something on board to determine their balance, and to reduce fraud.

 

2.) An intruder can break into the bridge, or wherever this device is kept, and attempt to break into the terminal that holds all of their operational currency.  For small operations, this would rarely happen... I mean, the chances that a small ship gets blown to smithereens is high.  Thus no chance of losing your precious operational currency.  The lore behind this, every ship has something akin to a blackbox that keeps log of the terminal access.  It would make note of no changes to operational balance.

 

3.) . If the terminal is in tact, the ship must be powered.  Once the original player's signature is off of the ship, a countdown should begin that slowly powers down the ship.  Leaving a relatively small window to steal the operational currency.

 

4.) . The crew should have a chance to turn off the terminal, however, it should take a certain amount of time to shutdown.

 

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

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You act like the moment you die, you lose all your money.  That wouldn't be the case, as far as I'm concerned.  The thing is, for traders... there is very little risk vs. rewards.  They carry half the reward all the time, whereas industrialists carry the full risk all the time.  Just saying they don't add up ^^

 

How I want things to be:

1.)  You carry operational currency, tied to a digital account.  The rest sits in a bank back home, or wherever... someplace safe.  The lore behind this is that, how would you keep track of how much money someone has from planet to planet?  That communication would not be instantaneous.  This means the player needs to have something on board to determine their balance, and to reduce fraud.

 

2.) An intruder can break into the bridge, or wherever this device is kept, and attempt to break into the terminal that holds all of their operational currency.  For small operations, this would rarely happen... I mean, the chances that a small ship gets blown to smithereens is high.  Thus no chance of losing your precious operational currency.  The lore behind this, every ship has something akin to a blackbox that keeps log of the terminal access.  It would make note of no changes to operational balance.

 

3.) . If the terminal is in tact, the ship must be powered.  Once the original player's signature is off of the ship, a countdown should begin that slowly powers down the ship.  Leaving a relatively small window to steal the operational currency.

 

4.) . The crew should have a chance to turn off the terminal, however, it should take a certain amount of time to shutdown.

 

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Well, I highly disagree. A trader actually holds much of a risk. One moment you may be tradiing an item that's gold's value, the next Joe McMillan dumps 1000% more of the same item in the market, making the trader lose 90% of their assets' worth. That can happen. It has happenend, it's called market market inflation or saturation. If you got a monopoly, you can ask as much as you'd like on something, if there are many sources selling the same thing, you got to lower the prices to compete and undercutting your competition can become a way of destroying your competitor as well as yourself in the process. So yeah, traders hold much of a risk. The industrialists simply holds a totally different kind of the same risk. 

 

 

Also, the lore part is a bit... wrong. We keep track of cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin pretty well. It's cryptocurrency after all, that's how we know how much of it exists and since the Arkship operates the implants in the players' brains and is the one to issue the money to begin with, it's safe to say they can easily keep track of said money.

 

Furthermore, the scenario of nreaking into a ship's bridge to steal money can happen just the same with any cargo hauler, as cargo is currency in asset form. which is the exact same principle on which the notion of a DAC being lootable oeprates in fact. One's DAC (the one who bought it with real money) is safe, as long as it's in digital form, it is a commodity the player bought from NQ for the purposes of the item (I say purposes because PLEX has more than one use in EVE, like converting it to cosmetic store credits as well, but primarily used as a 30-day gamecard). Once the DAC becomes lootable, it's an asset that obeys the rules of "risk & reward". The person that needs it consumes it, the trader is tough still running a risk and needs to take precautions to avoid the aforementioned hijacking of their cargo hauler. Ain't nobody wanna be the butt-end of a jackpot after all. In asset form, you can "steal" from other players, while once they sell said iteam for currency, they "save" their progress. They went from point A to point B, with a task they saw through, thus they reap their rewards.

 

3) & 4) follow suit after 2) . A crew should be eligible in self destructing a ship to avoid it being hijacked / stolen, regardless of a "vault" being on board it or not. That's called scuttling a boat, it's been done since the 1800s :P

 

I guess our opinions differ on this. Don't get me wrong, I was once an advocate of money dropping on death, then I realised people would have no actual way of knowing how much they progressed in "power" in a game without traditional levels. Same deal goes for pirates. If money is not stable in a person's hands, they can't have a bounty on their heads from said, rich, person.

 

I mean, how will I ever hit that 1 billion bounty on my head if people I kill drop their money? :P Riddle me that.

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First thing off, this discussion is no longer under control of the rules, which is bad, because it's dominated by some respectable, yet hiperactive personas and it was not intended to be a discussion in a form of constant replies. Let's try to stick to the rules provided by community management, which were completely ignored.

Secondly, my arguments will probably reitarate some of the most relevant points that strucked me as accurate, but still I will add my voice:

1. DAC system should be reserved for subscription continuation only - users buy DAC's off NQ, reedem their subscription continuation and put the DAC on sale on the market, so other player can buy a sub for in-game money. DAC should not be resellable once they're bought from original holder, who bought them by IRL money.

2. All the discussions about lootability of DAC's are not logical without a identical consideration of other "goods" being lootable in same aspects: in-game credits especially, since this would be much more immersive and much more directly shaping the gameplay than making meta-currency lootable.


3. DAC's should be considered a safe one-way harbor for your in-game credits - once you invest in DAC's, you put your credits out of the game, turning them into subscription time. Player decides: should I leave my credits in game and risk them being stolen (if enabled), but still be able to turn them into resources, investments, assets, etc., or do I permanently remove them from the game but prolong my subscription? 

4. Creating complex, multi-layered mechanics of DAC's lootability means using a lot of limited developement resources - there are many more interesting aspects of the game which can be developed without risking disappointment for many players, facing a probable loss of DAC's = subscription time, due to some game mechanics.

That's all for now.

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