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How hard (or easy) will it be to earn DAC?

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The risk you talk about is the trader's incompetency, not inherent risk. A trader worth his salt will avoid those situations. Just like a combatant worth his salt will avoid unconquerable areas.

 

As for saying my "lore" is incorrect... communications aren't instantaneous over such large distances. The communication delay between mars and earth is somewhere near 21 minutes. Depending on the type, some communications can go down to 3 minutes I think. However, I imagine the communications would need to be secure. How then can the overall balance be tracked cross universe? As soon as you make a purchase on planet 1, it wouldn't update on planet 2.

 

Money is stable, operational costs are not. Your bounty, and your bounty issuer would be safe. The only risk implemented is for what you use in your daily operations. Your money is safeguarded on some planet, digitally. You have to transfer that onto a terminal on hand in order to use at another location.

 

If DACs drop, so should operational currency via hacking. Adding an entirely new level of emergent gameplay.

 

Edit:

 

Sorry for the apparent off topic discussion, but it seems to go hand in hand with DACs dropping. Considering DACs are practically a second set of currency, much more than any other commodity in game. Much like gold in the US during its infancy, and even in the current day.

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The risk you talk about is the trader's incompetency, not inherent risk.

 

As for saying my "lore" is incorrect... communications aren't instantaneous over such large distances. The communication delay between mars and earth is somewhere near 21 minutes. Depending on the type, some communications can go down to 3 minutes I think. However, I imagine the communications would need tone secure. How then can the overall balance be tracked cross universe? As soon as you make a purchase on planet 1, it wouldn't update on planet 2.

 

If DACs drop, so should operational currency via hacking. Adding an entirely new level of emergent gameplay.

They use quantum entanglement to save the players in-game from death via the Res-Node technology. We download from the Arkship with the implants via the same tech. The markets across the game are interconnected (if the owner chooses to interconnect the markets) via quantum entanglement. Quantum entanglement = faster than light transmission of information (not yet pinned down totally in our own world, but in the context of the lore it is sound as tech). So yes, communications are isntateneous across the universe via quantum entanglement. And they can keep track of the currency across it regardless, since it's cryptocurrency. Hackers can't make more of it and NQ will be the one to keep track of it via the aforementioned Arkship Database & Cerebral Implant lore path.

 

And no, you can't teleport people with it, because it would make spaceships obsolete.

 

And as for "operational currency", that harkens back to the suggestion people (including myself) made of organisation-made currency. It's very difficult to have multiple currencies in the game.

 

And again, hacking to steal peoples' money in-game, if you stay close to them for a long time to maintain the hack, sure, that is emergent. Having cryptocurrency have a limit as of how much you can carry and forcing them to move siad money into a vault, is violating the principle of the cryptocurrency to begin with and printing space-money is way too primitive :P .

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They use quantum entanglement to save the players in-game from death via the Res-Node technology. We download from the Arkship with the implants via the same tech. The markets across the game are interconnected (if the owner chooses to interconnect the markets) via quantum entanglement. Quantum entanglement = faster than light transmission of information (not yet pinned down totally in our own world, but in the context of the lore it is sound as tech). So yes, communications are isntateneous across the universe via quantum entanglement. And they can keep track of the currency across it regardless, since it's cryptocurrency. Hackers can't make more of it and NQ will be the one to keep track of it via the aforementioned Arkship Database & Cerebral Implant lore path.

 

And no, you can't teleport people with it, because it would make spaceships obsolete.

 

And as for "operational currency", that harkens back to the suggestion people (including myself) made of organisation-made currency. It's very difficult to have multiple currencies in the game.

 

And again, hacking to steal peoples' money in-game, if you stay close to them for a long time to maintain the hack, sure, that is emergent. Having cryptocurrency have a limit as of how much you can carry and forcing them to move siad money into a vault, is violating the principle of the cryptocurrency to begin with and printing space-money is way too primitive :P .

No one said anything about printing monies, just that you have a digital log of your operational currency on your person.  In order to alleviate the communication problems that arise otherwise.

 

The whole quantum entanglement thing is a bit off topic, will create a separate discussion on that later.  Quantum entanglement does not provide faster than light communication, it is impossible for there to be a particle change and then a communication.  Unfortunately, I do have sources for such claims.  Will provide them at a later date, when I create that discussion ^^

 

In short, my post will propose a few things since apparently, QE is currently set to impact:  markets, currency, and the "death" mechanic.

 

1.)  Markets - There should be a time dilation discrepancy between market A and market B.  This would be based off of a simple equation that relates distance to communication time.  A market terminal would receive updates based on the distance the other units are to the terminal.  Hopefully this will be able to re-use the code that in place to update player data... if not, I imagine there will be some work involved.  

 

2.) Currency - I pretty much went over all that in previous posts.  

 

3.) Death - unfortunately, this creates a gap as to what they were planning.  But perhaps something along the lines of:  Emergency personnel recover your body, and bring you back to HQ to be repaired by some nano technology.  Almost as unplausible as QE and QT... but, I will probably come up with something more definitive before I create the post ^^

 

Before you say that they can just use quantum teleportation... you would need one long ass fibre optic wire for that lol.

 

Edit:

 

I should clarify, I'm good with what they have at the moment... I don't really care if they falsify the extensions of QE and QT.  However, I will give them an alternative... that creates a more interesting playthrough for traders and market predictions. 

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Sorry for the almost necro.
But since I haven't replied here yet, and the thread is not locked, here is my take:

1. KISS - keep it simple, stupid. Do not waste valuable developer ressources on this until it is needed.
2. Avoid horror stories and media backlash before the game is even launched - nobody is arguing for making DACs lootable without any kind of safety net, as far as I can see. Good!
3. Keep your options open - avoid making decisions now that make it unnecessarily hard to change your mind later.
4. Try to keep both sides happy (lootable vs not lootable) - might be impossible, but as long as you keep to points 1 to 3, keeping you early supporters happy is a good thing. :-)

Under the assumptions that everybody has at least some kind of (limited) bank space in every safe zone (e.g. locker by your cryo pod?), and that safe zones never cease existing, I'd do it the following way:
- There is no limit to the amount of DACs you can put into your Arkship locker
- You are unable to leave a safe zone with DACs in your inventory.
- You are unable to materialize DACs outside of a safe zone
Finished, thats it, nothing else left to implement. :-O

Now what does this actually DO!?
- Whoever buys DACs with real world money can use them on himself, or trade them on a market (if the market is located inside a safe zone).

- You have to put your DACs into the locker (or any other safe container) before leaving the safe zone.

     Which is normal and prudent behaviour anyway. The game is simply enforcing it to prevent edge cases.
- Reselling of DACs you bought is possible. That should avoid any weird price spikes resulting from being unable to resell DACs
- There should not be anything for the proponents of lootable DACs to complain about - having DACs you have LESS options compared to normal items instead of more.
- There should be no way to spin this as too unfair towards griefed players - your DACs can't be lost because the game prevents you from getting into that situation.
- There is a good chance for emergent gameplay because players travel to different safe zones to buy or materialize and sell DACs, because the DACs can't change safe zones.

    So while you lose emergent game play for DAC traders - hiring escorts and so on - you on the other hand gain gameplay by having more players traveling, making for example passenger liners more likely.

    Even if win and loss of emergent gameplay only equalize each other, we are coming out ahead! :-D
- You keep yourself the option open to allow lootable DACs later on
    - You only have to remove the check when leaving a safe zone
    - You are in the best possible position to spin it for the press:
        "We are only providing an additional option that was not there before."
    - You have not locked yourself down in any way regarding safety nets - while also having avoided spending developer ressources on that before they were needed.
 

EDIT: Another way to look at this suggestion is that it makes DACs safe zone bound on first trade (because they have to be materialized for that), instead of soul bound (non-tradeable).

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Personally, I think the option of DACs being unlootable on purchase, but lootable after they have been traded is the best option.  No one likes losing something they've paid hard earned money for.  I am a casual player, and as such... I like the casualness of this methodology.

 

Furthermore, I am against the whole lootable currency thing.  Once again, I am a casual player... You can steal my cargo, you can steal my ship... but the currency should stay the way it is.

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just to add some weight to the posts with the same opinion as mine, DAC's should defintiely not be lootable.

We will have quite some players who are in their teens or don't hav emuch money in general which try to get gametime by buying DAC's from other players and if DAC's are lootable we definitely will have players watching the market to see when some are sold to know when to rob ppl.

That means those players who just scraped enough ingame currency together to buy a DAC will quite often lose that and in turn become unable to continue with DU.

Its an item which is directly related to a players financial situation in real life and thus should be off limits.

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just to add some weight to the posts with the same opinion as mine, DAC's should defintiely not be lootable.

We will have quite some players who are in their teens or don't hav emuch money in general which try to get gametime by buying DAC's from other players and if DAC's are lootable we definitely will have players watching the market to see when some are sold to know when to rob ppl.

That means those players who just scraped enough ingame currency together to buy a DAC will quite often lose that and in turn become unable to continue with DU.

Its an item which is directly related to a players financial situation in real life and thus should be off limits.

Hmm, I disagree.  People who are purchasing a DAC in order to use it will consume it within 30 seconds to a minute.  

 

However, perhaps they could put a small time restriction before the DAC becomes lootable, perhaps something like 5 minutes of logged in game time (in case you disconnect or something).  This would prevent people from being ganked at a market terminal that isn't protected for some reason.

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just to add some weight to the posts with the same opinion as mine, DAC's should defintiely not be lootable.

We will have quite some players who are in their teens or don't hav emuch money in general which try to get gametime by buying DAC's from other players and if DAC's are lootable we definitely will have players watching the market to see when some are sold to know when to rob ppl.

That means those players who just scraped enough ingame currency together to buy a DAC will quite often lose that and in turn become unable to continue with DU.

Its an item which is directly related to a players financial situation in real life and thus should be off limits.

That's not how the market works. A person who scraps by is not a person that the DAC-time is meant for. DAC-time is meant for those  who invest a lot of time in-game and make mad banks from trading and other activities. 

 

In fact, this is something the Devs know. If I can make a lot of money in-game, therefore I can buy all the DAC i want before any of you can and then I can stockpile it with impunity. I didn't pay a single euro / dollar for all these DACs and I can simply DOMINATE everyone by sheer market-shrare of DACs. You want that? No, nobody wants that.

 

I can't do that with mineral ores or items, which are in essence assets (in-game money in phyisical form ). This is why the Devs want the PLEX system of a DAC being unlootable until it is redeemed / sold in-game  It's a risk and reward thing and DUAL is a game about risk and reward (as JC said so in Markeedragon's interview with him on youtube). If you can't take the risk, you won't reap the rewards. If hoarding DACs has no risk, then it has no counter-play in the economic warfare of the game. You wouldn't say something like "I want no defenses against lasers in the game", would you now? 

 

Hmm, I disagree.  People who are purchasing a DAC in order to use it will consume it within 30 seconds to a minute.  

 

However, perhaps they could put a small time restriction before the DAC becomes lootable, perhaps something like 5 minutes of logged in game time (in case you disconnect or something).  This would prevent people from being ganked at a market terminal that isn't protected for some reason.

The redeem system guarantees the DAC is unlootable for the real-money buyer until said person wants to sell it, in whicch case they redeem it in-game as a physical item, then can put the DAC up for sale in a market-place for a fixed price. The buyer buys an item and then they can go and get it from said market to consume it upon arrival, or they risk having the DAC stolen upon trying to relocate it to another market. 

 

It's a proven method in EVE. PLEX (EVE's DAC) being stolen is a rare occasion, that usually involves a lot of bad moves by the person who lost their PLEX in an ambush, in most of the cases, tat person flew in autopilot threw dangerous areas :|

 

Also, are you aware of the safe-zones? You won't be ganked at a trading terminal. Nobody that is sane, will ever put a marketplace off of a safezone (protection bubbles, etcetera).

 

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The amount of money I backed on the kickstarter campaign, is a lot of money for me. I spend that much money, because I really want this game made. In exchange i'm looking forward to several years of subscription. I do not want a random player, who backed this campaign for $12, to steal those DACs on day one.

 

After launch, people who buy DACs and try to trade them ingame will be less likely to buy DACs if there is a risk of them getting stolen.

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We could seek for some coherence rather than just say 'LOOTABLE' or 'UNLOOTABLE', or even 'Lootrable only when just purchased'. The best option in my opinion is finally to have them unlootable, as it's linked to your account (like a bank account, so you need a code); you have DACs but they are non-physical in the character's view of the game. However, black market could be much more different : pirates could convert money from the ones and zeros to actual physical coins in their inventory to make illegal transactions. The risk in carrying physical DACs (or in-game soft-money too) would be to be stolen badly, I mean there should be risk for those who want some.

For example some orgs could regulate the trade of weapons with their law, electronic transaction would immediately be noticed by the authority, they'd know if you don't have the right to perform some particular transaction. Physical money could be a way to bypass the authorities' vigilance. But the police could still be watching for those who convert their money, or do customs at the borders. Thanks 4 reading if read.

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DACs are objects in game, currency is not. For someone to sell the DAC they bought for real money in the market, theyn eed to make it into an item in-game first. Also, currency is a player's progress in the game, either in asset form or currency form.

 

 

 

DACs are not innately lootable. They are turned into an item, then sold for in-game cash. The lootable part comes into play, if the player that bought the DAC for in-game money, tries to resell or hoard said DAC for later on. The player who bought the DAC with in-game money is the one who is affected by the lootable part. And let's be honest, the player that actually wants the DAC for its extra gametime, will consume the DAC on the spot, not hoard it, so the ones who actually need it are covered as well.

 

Now, if you are goiing to trade DACs in the premises of a place equivalent to a war zone, then that's your fault, not the company's fault for making it lootable.(...)

 

What I'm saying is, sell the DACs inside a safe zone, in fact, sell ANYTHING in a safe zone. It guarantees you won't be mugged on sight.

 

The whole point is here. What remain is: "Would we be able to turn our DACs into an item and then back into data in a bank account? Or not?". Of course for even the release of the game that's not important, but still a question. DACs should be converted to items if needed, for transactions, or particular transactions as I said. up here. The governments keeping an eye on the electronic transactions is another idea, maybe a little bit hard to build though.

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The whole point is here. What remain is: "Would we be able to turn our DACs into an item and then back into data in a bank account? Or not?". Of course for even the release of the game that's not important, but still a question. DACs should be converted to items if needed, for transactions, or particular transactions as I said. up here. The governments keeping an eye on the electronic transactions is another idea, maybe a little bit hard to build though.

No, the redemption system only works one way. You can't "unredeem" an item. DACs are a commodity, not a crrency, that's what the lootable part ensures, that nobody can use DAC as currency that is unlootable, thus defeating its initial function of a playtime extension.

 

Tracking how much money goes through your trading hub is an easy thing to do, it only requires for a spreadsheet to showcase that. Welcome to the world of actual economics. It's not for the feint of heart :P

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I know this topic is old, but I was wondering if NQ has decided on what model to use, loot able or non-loot able?  Also I thought since most of the PRO loot able arguments were coming from EVE players and supporting how great it works in eve I would share the following link.

 

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/plex-changes-on-the-way/

 

In particular this part of it.  "The PLEX Vault will allow you to move PLEX safely throughout the universe rather than having to move it in a ship."

 

So i personally consider all "this is how it works in EVE " ETC. arguments invalid since it no longer is the way EVE works.  Also I would like to add that if it was working so well why did CCP change it and should we also then consider the why and the route they went.

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I know this topic is old, but I was wondering if NQ has decided on what model to use, loot able or non-loot able?  Also I thought since most of the PRO loot able arguments were coming from EVE players and supporting how great it works in eve I would share the following link.

 

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/plex-changes-on-the-way/

 

In particular this part of it.  "The PLEX Vault will allow you to move PLEX safely throughout the universe rather than having to move it in a ship."

 

So i personally consider all "this is how it works in EVE " ETC. arguments invalid since it no longer is the way EVE works.  Also I would like to add that if it was working so well why did CCP change it and should we also then consider the why and the route they went.

The model is still currently DAC's and Quanta as non-lootable non-physical objects. As far as I know, the heart of the argument for these things being non-lootable is that having them is not risky, but anything and everything you can spend them on is at risk of theft or destruction (with the exception if simply turning DAC's into subscription time, which takes them off the market, increases demand for them, and thus makes NQ more income).

 

The fact that the ship or resources you spend your Quanta and DAC's on can be looted or destroyed is risk enough.

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The model is still currently DAC's and Quanta as non-lootable non-physical objects. As far as I know, the heart of the argument for these things being non-lootable is that having them is not risky, but anything and everything you can spend them on is at risk of theft or destruction (with the exception if simply turning DAC's into subscription time, which takes them off the market, increases demand for them, and thus makes NQ more income).

 

The fact that the ship or resources you spend your Quanta and DAC's on can be looted or destroyed is risk enough.

That's not quite true. Dacs are non physical as in no rl item as the arkship id but they're an item in DU. They cleared that up because their KS answer was not clear on that

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So tltr; DAC is a form of digital currency that can be traded and not stolen/looted by others. I think that main thread had too much frigan text on it lol 

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I know this topic is old, but I was wondering if NQ has decided on what model to use, loot able or non-loot able?  Also I thought since most of the PRO loot able arguments were coming from EVE players and supporting how great it works in eve I would share the following link.

 

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/plex-changes-on-the-way/

 

In particular this part of it.  "The PLEX Vault will allow you to move PLEX safely throughout the universe rather than having to move it in a ship."

 

So i personally consider all "this is how it works in EVE " ETC. arguments invalid since it no longer is the way EVE works.  Also I would like to add that if it was working so well why did CCP change it and should we also then consider the why and the route they went.

Feel free to post links on subjects you understand. You clearly don't udnerstand what PLEX Vault implies.

 

1 PLEX used to be 30 days of gametime OR 500 Aurum (currency for cosmetic shop)

 

Skins can cost 100 to 200 to 500 to 1000 Aurum (never used it, I am just assuming).

 

The new system got rid of PLEX and renamed Aurum to PLEX. This is CCP's last ditch effort to milk the new playerbase with Free-2-Play out of their money - cause newbros tihnk tech-3 ships are "better" so they buy them 1 billion ISK ships... and lose them promptly after. 

 

 

I like your plan of action though, you tried the "DU is for children angle" and it was shot down pretty fast by NQ, but now you try to appease to "EVE players", by bringing in the mechanism that put the writing on the wall of EVE Online. Good plan of action there.

 

Next Stop : Suggest Skill Injectors. 

 

 

 

P.S. : Lord_Void made a thread on this and NQ responded there as of this new model. Go look up the answer. Unlike you, DU's Devs HAVE palyed EVE. They know what the PLEX Vault implies. and unlike EVE, DU is not a 15 year old game and on its final days so "why not make it Freemium and work on our next project?" .

 

Cheers.

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Feel free to post links on subjects you understand. You clearly don't udnerstand what PLEX Vault implies.

 

1 PLEX used to be 30 days of gametime OR 500 Aurum (currency for cosmetic shop)

 

Skins can cost 100 to 200 to 500 to 1000 Aurum (never used it, I am just assuming).

 

The new system got rid of PLEX and renamed Aurum to PLEX. This is CCP's last ditch effort to milk the new playerbase with Free-2-Play out of their money - cause newbros tihnk tech-3 ships are "better" so they buy them 1 billion ISK ships... and lose them promptly after. 

 

 

I like your plan of action though, you tried the "DU is for children angle" and it was shot down pretty fast by NQ, but now you try to appease to "EVE players", by bringing in the mechanism that put the writing on the wall of EVE Online. Good plan of action there.

 

Next Stop : Suggest Skill Injectors. 

 

 

 

P.S. : Lord_Void made a thread on this and NQ responded there as of this new model. Go look up the answer. Unlike you, DU's Devs HAVE palyed EVE. They know what the PLEX Vault implies. and unlike EVE, DU is not a 15 year old game and on its final days so "why not make it Freemium and work on our next project?" .

 

Cheers.

 

1st I understand what the vault is and how it works....

 

2nd I am not suggesting the fragmented dac system, this is the discussion on if DAC should be loot able.  Which has not been answered by NQ.

 

3rd I read that, and NQ was talking about the fragmented plex, vs keeping DAC whole.  

 

4th I have played EVE, along with many other MMOs 

 

5th....in our player driven discussion yes that was one of many arguments against looting them, but as this official NQ topic for the discussion, these were and still are my arguments against that.

 

Since you are obviously toxic on these forums and have proven that behavior time and again, this will be my last response to you.  I don't believe in feeding trolls.

 

I am against having Loot able DACs in game. for the following reasons.

 

1)  It is assumed that once you use it to add to your game time, its a timer, so if you know you are going to be off line for an extended time, you should have the ability to buy them when they are cheap, and hold onto them for when you need to use them.

2)  It is not IMHO emergent game play to loot these, as they have no real game world purpose so why should a character even want them?  Resources on the other hand, yes a character would desire that.

3)  This whole market crashing BS can still be done safely using the safe zones or other methods as described by GrandMasterApex.

4)  If Credits are non loot able, which has a real presence in the game, why should DACs not also be safe?  It is more emergent game play to demand the ability to loot credits.

5)  IMHO it is a better plan to resolve these complaints of hoarding, by making these items only able to be sold or traded ONCE.  This solves almost all of the legitimate complaints against keeping them non-loot able, but also lets players hold in game purchased ones till they need to use them safely.  This will also stop scams and griefing people buy luring them out to remote PVP areas with extremely low prices, to only be pounced on after they are purchased.

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1st I understand what the vault is and how it works....

 

2nd I am not suggesting the fragmented dac system, this is the discussion on if DAC should be loot able. Which has not been answered by NQ.

 

3rd I read that, and NQ was talking about the fragmented plex, vs keeping DAC whole.

 

4th I have played EVE, along with many other MMOs

 

5th....in our player driven discussion yes that was one of many arguments against looting them, but as this official NQ topic for the discussion, these were and still are my arguments against that.

 

Since you are obviously toxic on these forums and have proven that behavior time and again, this will be my last response to you. I don't believe in feeding trolls.

 

I am against having Loot able DACs in game. for the following reasons.

 

1) It is assumed that once you use it to add to your game time, its a timer, so if you know you are going to be off line for an extended time, you should have the ability to buy them when they are cheap, and hold onto them for when you need to use them.

2) It is not IMHO emergent game play to loot these, as they have no real game world purpose so why should a character even want them? Resources on the other hand, yes a character would desire that.

3) This whole market crashing BS can still be done safely using the safe zones or other methods as described by GrandMasterApex.

4) If Credits are non loot able, which has a real presence in the game, why should DACs not also be safe? It is more emergent game play to demand the ability to loot credits.

5) IMHO it is a better plan to resolve these complaints of hoarding, by making these items only able to be sold or traded ONCE. This solves almost all of the legitimate complaints against keeping them non-loot able, but also lets players hold in game purchased ones till they need to use them safely. This will also stop scams and griefing people buy luring them out to remote PVP areas with extremely low prices, to only be pounced on after they are purchased.

1) PLEX in EVE, is the only item that can't follow in-game economy rules - EVE was built without PLEX in mind. When I make a LAser Canon, I have a production cost, a shipment cost and then on top, I have the possibility of losing the cargo before it reaches the market. T ha'ts called "realistic economy". PLEX disregards production costs you have to worry about. In EVE, the previous system, guaranteed theat you buy plex with real money, you go in a market, you go in a specific menu, you spawn the PLEX in your inventory and put it up for sale. Simple as that. The lootable part was there so PLEX could not be RESOLD in-game without any risk by RMT ( Regional Market Trading, google it up, you will be terrified even more). The new PLEX vault was built for those who resell PLEX in-game who don't know how the game's pirate lanes work - AKA newbros. EVE has become "easy" cause CCP is killing EVE slowlly.

2) PLEX in EVE can be used to train a secondary character simultaneously with you main. Your passive skill training is on ONE character per account. You can't train 3 characters on one account at the same time. This is why people go after PLEX (or went, now it's noob friendly as a system). Also, you assume I would not 1 free monh of game-time? Are you even serious on that one? Oh wait, I am "toxic" for proving the holes in your flawed logic?

 

3) Market Crashing is the least of your worries. RMT Scams are. And if DACs are left unlootable, they will be rampart. You clearly don't udnerstand how supply and demand works or how margin profit happens, so, no point on debating. Oh wait, you tihnk NQ will ban those eveil Scammers - LIKE ME - for scamming someone gullible? Do you think NQ will care if yo ubuy a DAC for 150% of its market price I RMT scam you? How cute.

 

4) If you played EVE (cause two days are not "I've played EVE" ) you would know your money is your actual HP - or your alliance's, look up SRP, iot's the "incentive" to enroll in a null-sec army, like a dental plan, only for ships. In DU, Quanta literally is that - Quanta is a unit of energy in physics. So, no, you shouldn't be able to steal my "HP". Not without tricking me out of it, like some space Mephistopheles. DACs on the other hand ,are exchangable items.

 

5)

you CLEARLY never played EVE. In EVE, we got a thing called - hold on your seat, we are going stratospheric on emergent gameplay here - SPACETRUCKERS.

 

When I went to buy a PLEX, I would jump in my alt in Jita, buy my PLEX, but have my Spacetrucker friend haul my PLEX back to me me when he made a trip once a week - we are talking six to ten hours, Freighters are slow ships.

 

That friend, I would put a private contract out for in Jita - and since they are a friend of mine, I would only put collateral as the price of the PLEX on the market, which ifinite at a given point. That frienjd then, would haul my PLEX to me, and when it was brought ot me, I would put up for sale. If the friend was - for some reason - blown up, I would not lose any money on my purchase. Of course, I would also put a giant pay on my PLEX for delivering it, so the friend did make a profit for a tiney-tiny item.

 

Your unlootable PLEX :

 

a ) I can't contract my PLEX for delivery - and since in DU we don't got teleportation, means I have to go to a market and get the DAC fro ma palyer's container. in EVE, PLEX is not stored in a player's container in a market. Stations in EVE are just glorified interfaces for a tradingh hub. in DU, a DAC would be placed in a container. Which also means, if DACs can teleport, then supply and demand is thrown off balance cause there's no risk involved in hauling the DAC. But nah, I am toxic, which means you may have an allergy with the thing called "reality".

 

b ) smaller - but faster - couriers can't make money on swift PLEX Delivery (you'd know that if you played EVE, but whatever)

 

c ) markets can be bled out of money by one person with enough real life money. Find a pirate port, fly there on a cheap ship, until you get there, dump all your Pay-2-Win PLEX and bleed their market dry of money. You'd know how that works, if you played EVE on the economic scale as I do. Yes, it already happens in EVE. People flying in free ships to drain alliances' out of money that have high buy orders for PLEX. Yes, unlootable PLEX, it's now a Pay-2-Win warfare. Why? Cause as I said, CCP is killing a 15 year old game slowlly. It's a controleld demolitino what the new PLEX Vault is.

 

Now, why would I want the PLEX hauled to Null-Sec? Cause it goes for higher there as I pointed out.

 

Nobody would ever put a PLEX in EVE at a low-price sell order in null-sec so they could "lure people". That's only in your head. The moment it went up for sale, someone on my faction would go "hey, some idiot put it up for sale so cheap, cool, so long sucker" and poof, I am at a loss of money. But you would know that if you had any remote idea of how money happens.

 

Oh wait, am I toxic for puncturing your paper-thin logic ? I bet I am toxic, TRUTH BURNS LIKE ACID.

 

So, your idea of "make DAC only tradeable once", violates the realistic economy of the game - from supply and demand to hauling and courier jobs - SO MUCH, I am certain now you have zero idea how RMT happens.

 

But hey, I am toxic for proving you have zero clue on how bad your idea is. Yeah, good thing JC knows how bad your idea is, he did play EVE, he does know how RMT happens - he did gave an interview on EVE's biggest PLEX reseller after all BEFORE the PLEX Vault was even announced.

 

 

Here is what NQ said so far:

 

They said they don't have a mechanism for redeeming DACs in-game - and it's acceptable, it IS a hassle to make it fail-proof, god knows people in EVE put that redeeming system to the test.

 

It's also acceptable for DACs to be unlootable until a person CHOOSES to make them lootable in-game for the purpose of selling them like an in-game item. That's totally fine. The person that paid real money for the DAC should be 100% protected until they choose to sell it.

 

What's not fine is BUTCHERING and MAIMING the game's mentality just so some people can clai mthey are "smugglers" while in reality being carebears with a fetish for Han Solo. Reselling a DAC you bought with in-game money, should impair RISK and REWARD.

 

If you have a problem with RISK and REWARD, stay in a safezone forever. High Rewards are for High Rollers.

 

Peace.

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Oh wait, am I toxic for puncturing your paper-thin logic ? I bet I am toxic, TRUTH BURNS LIKE ACID.  

 

Lel. That very statement proves how toxic he is. But lets not feed the trolls

 

How about this? Once a DAC has been traded for in-game cash, the DAC becomes physical. This means if the DAC you got was for IRL money/Kickstarter award, then it acts like currency and is non-lootable. However, once a DAC has been traded, it becomes physical and you can do all sorts of shinanigans to it.

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Oh wait, am I toxic for puncturing your paper-thin logic ? I bet I am toxic, TRUTH BURNS LIKE ACID.  

 

Lel. That very statement proves how toxic he is. But lets not feed the trolls

 

How about this? Once a DAC has been traded for in-game cash, the DAC becomes physical. This means if the DAC you got was for IRL money/Kickstarter award, then it acts like currency and is non-lootable. However, once a DAC has been traded, it becomes physical and you can do all sorts of shinanigans to it.

I was going to suggest this exact thing. But then I didn't.

 

You worded it better anyhow.

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Oh wait, am I toxic for puncturing your paper-thin logic ? I bet I am toxic, TRUTH BURNS LIKE ACID.  

 

Lel. That very statement proves how toxic he is. But lets not feed the trolls

 

How about this? Once a DAC has been traded for in-game cash, the DAC becomes physical. This means if the DAC you got was for IRL money/Kickstarter award, then it acts like currency and is non-lootable. However, once a DAC has been traded, it becomes physical and you can do all sorts of shinanigans to it.

EVE had a far better system to handle this. It was an idiot-proof system. You had to actively pass at least 4 logic checks in your brain to redeem a PLEx anmake it an in-game item.

 

Also claim how "toxic" I am, NQ knows better than you guys, cause they actually played EVE and they have said they want this redeeming of DAC system which is idiot-proof.

 

Howver, if you try and resell DAC after you buy it for in-game money, you CAN'T revert it back to a non-lootable item. use it, or save it. And saving it for later imposes a risk, yas your ship may be attacked or your base raided. You can trade it in a safezone, but the supply there will be OFF THE ROOF, so you won't get good prices

 

And this is what Gallo and all of his likeminded people hate. The fact the Risk is INSANE for retrading DACs.

 

I mean, how will people RP they'are "smugglers" if they lose all their DACs every time they're outsmarted and ganked upon - which they will, that's a fact, sooner or later it will happen.

 

See, NQ knows all that. Gallo can come up with every single silly arguement, like how he "will lure people with low prices on DACs in a non-safe market and have them robbed" - which made a lot of BOO members and EVE veterans laugh by the way - but NQ knows the PLEX redemption system from EVE worked. 

 

EVE went tthe PLEX Vault way, cause they want their game to be a little more profitable by being more casual friendly before they unveil their next game.

 

Thing i,s like it or not, EVE is dead, long live DU. And JC Baillie has said, time and time again, it's about Risk and Reward.

 

You want to sell the DAC you bought for 18 USD/ Euro ? Cool, get to a market yourself, redemem the item, sell the item.

 

Oh the trade-hub was raided and your DAC was stolen before it got sold? Tough luck. You wanted to make more money than selling it in the Safezone, so you took the risk.

 

Ce la vie. 

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One solution that i can see, would be to create a second kind of item which is converted from DACs, or which DACs are converted from. i.e:

NovaQuark would sell DACs in Coupon Containers (or whatever they get to be called) which are unlootable, but also unusable and unsellable. In order to redeem or sell a DAC, it must first be converted to its lootable form. This protects those who buy their DACs with IRL money, but still allows for piracy of DACs after they are traded.

EDIT: I just noticed that other people have had similar ideas. I didn't really go through all the posts, just read the OP and had an idea.

Edited by ArsNova
Add some stuff

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58 minutes ago, ArsNova said:

One solution that i can see, would be to create a second kind of item which is converted from DACs, or which DACs are converted from. i.e:

NovaQuark would sell DACs in Coupon Containers (or whatever they get to be called) which are unlootable, but also unusable and unsellable. In order to redeem or sell a DAC, it must first be converted to its lootable form. This protects those who buy their DACs with IRL money, but still allows for piracy of DACs after they are traded.

EDIT: I just noticed that other people have had similar ideas. I didn't really go through all the posts, just read the OP and had an idea.

It's actually want NQ wants to do, the same PLEX system used in EVE (before the latest patch in EVE), the system that protects the original buyer, but not the people who want to resell the DAC.

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DAC should be lootable when a person is carrying them on him or stores them in a destroyable ship or structure from which other materials/modules can be looted as well.

 

I agree with an earlier post that the system currently in place for PLEX in EVE is good (even though the implementation is not that great), one should be able to 'bank' the DAC in a safe location from where you would need to withdraw it to use in game (at which time it becomes an in game asset and should be lootable). You should still be able to use DAC to get game time or (when implemented) use them for transactions from a store not linked to the in game economy.

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