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Tactician

My biggest worry about this game

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Just now, Cybrex said:

Alpha Academy fills this role already,

Perfect, I would have been surprised if noone had thought about that already :) 
It is great that this can become an ingame University Building, not just some external website.

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4 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

 

You claim NQ's words are "my" opinions? Are you serious? You done that in the past, but now you just did it openly and to a serious degree. You ignored the AMA post I linked.  You are that much of a failtrain,,,.

Cheers, have a happy new year - and I hope your boss gets fired, that guy is an a-hole from what I gather and not the Starlord kind of a-hole.

 

No I don't and never have.

 

Another example of what seems to be a delusional mind. Your one track mind seems also unable to read and recognize basic English and always falls back to the same misplaced and irrelevant nonsense response. Frankly, I pity you for your mindset. Maybe you should try talking to a mirror when you go on your rants as they seem to pretty much reflect your own attitude and misconceptions.

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13 hours ago, Msoul said:

 

@CaptainTwerkmotor You can be very blunt and rude at times but I do agree with your stance, appreciate what your trying to do and I especially like your persistence. I don't really have the right to complain especially considering you are going around doing the work of 10 men, but could you try to be a little more patient with people? Not everyone is blessed with as much experience in pvp as you have and we don't want to scare away new blood.

 

You forgot the "/s"  as you must not be serious in thinking he has any actual experience or skill in PVP.

 

He is also not 'doing the work of 10 men' but I expect just a kid with his thoughts considering anyone outside his train of thought to be an idiot. We'll see once DU goes live what he is really able to do. I predict he'll turn out to be a shit talking ganker/griefer (In itself fine.. it's part of what a game like DU and EVE enable/allow) who will use being "hidden" in a large organization to cover his back while it lasts.

 

So far he talks a lot but really has nothing to say nor backs up anything he says about his 'prowess' in PVP with facts.

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3 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

You forgot the "/s"  as you must not be serious in thinking he has any actual experience or skill in PVP.

I think you might be underestimating him. Don't let your 'hatred' of those who disagree stop you from thinking straight. Attacks against character are only useful if you want to undermine their ability to reason (and therefore bait them into doing what you want them to do). And attacking Twerk's character means you lose, since it is usually a last resort (it is also what he wants you to do).

 

Be rational, play devil's advocate, learn when to back down (I go by the phrase "If someone disagrees, check again to see if you are right").

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39 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

No I don't and never have.

 

Given you open your response to my last line of the quote of "Have a happy new year"...
 

You don't have - and never had - a happy year?????

That's... not a comforoting thought, I might disagree (very much so) with your Providence carebearisms, but I really would not wish that on my worst opponent in-game. 


 On your other point, I could also link a dozen of posts of you claiming I am "claiming things that NQ never spoken of" (which I linked you quotes and videos and NQ respones) , on two of which occassions NQ responded themselves and spoken out, loud and clear, sayign the same things I was saying, and on any other thread - like this one - people telling you you are wrong. But at this point, you played. One was on your "multicrew is not confirmed" opinios, in which Nyzaltar responded. I guess your short term memory is excued, you clearly have far more important things to occupy your mind than forum responses that shut you down.
 

I guess you really won - or more likely nuked - the debate here. This puts a lot of things in a whole new context...

Hope you the best man. I really really do. Hope this year ends the streak (in a positive way for you).

Cheers.

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@mrjacobean

I can easily verify what his claims are worth as I know (both in game and in person) some of the people he talks about. I know he does not get his information from actual involvement but from watching videos and reading internet posts. I would be happy to and challenge him to show what he is capable of, something conveniently ignored. It's possible that a lack of understanding of English is a reason for his continuous misunderstanding of context and arguments. It's also possible he is just the kid I think he is trying to 'be that guy'.. I could be wrong, sure and if I am I will be the first to admit it, apologize and move on but so far all I see is rhetoric on repeat and a stream of misinformed arguments.

 

I have no hatred of someone who disagrees with me at all. I do not "hate" anyone. The guy just can't stop ripping one comment out of context and use it as if it was used to argue something else. I'm all for open and frank arguments and discussion, I get neither from him. All we get is "you said this (nope), You claim that (nope) and this is the truth.. You are an idiot as I am right"

 

But It's obvious that there is no arguing or discussion here so I guess it's best to just ignore and let him rant. Concern there is though he will just inject himself in any discussion to get he attention he craves.

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4 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Given you open your response to my last line of the quote of "Have a happy new year"...

 

It's clear you have problems with understanding basic quoting.. It's all good kid.. enjoy life..

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8 hours ago, Lethys said:

I totally forgot about the AMA there twerk linked (which everyone just ignored)

 

It's really only circle jerking as the "carebears" want their "Safe space" and the "griefers" want their "ffa come at me Bro" (mind the "" ...) And both Talk about the same thing but have other fears (too much pvp, too less pvp)

Despite what @CaptainTwerkmotor keeps saying, I never said I want grieving punished.  (I’ll leave the misinterpretation of the quote alone for now. )  I’m with the OP that I don’t want to see this game get the same reputation that EVE has because I believe it will limit the playerbase.  In my experience the reputation of EVE from people that don’t play it and never have or have only tried it briefly is that it is a cesspool of griefing and newbie killing.  I just want new players here to be welcomed into the community and given time to learn the game.  Once people learn the game I think PVP is a good way for the universe to expand and will give us things to do.  I offered a possible solution that doesn’t punish or limit anything just gives a little more weight to defense vs offense.  But I keep being told I’m ignoring words that have nothing to do with what I’m talking about except in a tangential way.  

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3 minutes ago, Felonu said:

  I just want new players here to be welcomed into the community and given time to learn the game. 

Don't despair, despite some heated words now and then pretty much everyone here wants the same thing. 

 

Creating a good new player experience is on the minds of many people on this forum. And probably NQ as well. 

 

We have a few extreme poles represented as any game forum, somewhere down the road they will meet in the middle. By choice or by force. ;)

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51 minutes ago, Felonu said:

Despite what @CaptainTwerkmotor keeps saying, I never said I want grieving punished.  (I’ll leave the misinterpretation of the quote alone for now. )  I’m with the OP that I don’t want to see this game get the same reputation that EVE has because I believe it will limit the playerbase.  In my experience the reputation of EVE from people that don’t play it and never have or have only tried it briefly is that it is a cesspool of griefing and newbie killing.  I just want new players here to be welcomed into the community and given time to learn the game.  Once people learn the game I think PVP is a good way for the universe to expand and will give us things to do.  I offered a possible solution that doesn’t punish or limit anything just gives a little more weight to defense vs offense.  But I keep being told I’m ignoring words that have nothing to do with what I’m talking about except in a tangential way.  

I already Made my statement where I write about what I think is wrong in eve and with perception of it. 

Partly players fault (not the griefers but the ppl who want instant gratification), partly eve itself. 

 

Your idea isn't really yours tbh as NQ already plans for that: protection bubbles or shield domes. You learn the first steps in the arkzone and then you can move on and build such defenses (which have 48h invulnerability Timer btw) to protect your stuff.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that people will still complain and leave the game because they get killed sometimes. As No tutorial can show you what Du is really about (all the Meta, other Not so obviously defensive mechanics, ship building, Base building, ...). 

And that's basically what i posted before:

- people need good Tutorials to get to know Basic Game mechanics and how to defend them (shield domes for example)

- but people also need guidance from others to get to know the deeper mechanics and the meta which no tutorial can describe

 

If newbros just venture outside because they have a wrong impression of Du and then get killed, I can already foresee all the salt. 

And again: to me it's Not so much nqs job to bring players to the right mindset but ours as players. Teach them. Show them. Talk to them. They need guidance from us otherwise they'll leave and be salty about Du too

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My biggest fear is....

Mostly how long we can sustain the popularity of the game. To make it accessable we need long-term planners and actual dedicated players, not just people who throw money at the screen and expect a finished product from the get-go. It needs room for everyone's ambitions, or square, ugly, mono-coloured cabins, or statues/drawings commemorating a phallus... while at the same time still provide order in that chaos.

Also, will NQ trust the community enough to solve our own struggles to create and sustain this ingame society of ugly, mono-coloured cabin builders or 3-gorillian-thruster plastered space-boxes?

 

Make no mistake, we're building the content people usually expect from an MMO from scratch. We're the quest givers, the market folks, the general-goods vendor or the public transport.

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In my simple idea (that is, of course, simplified, while in reality many factors come into play including solid game mechanics that need to be always checked and maybe revised or expanded upon, etc) the players are the main driving factor of long-term goals and motivations.

 

It is, in essence, a bit like life: rinse and repeat, rise and fall, try something new. Dominating or influential factions will form and over time might fall, or generally be contested by others. This can go on for years, over a decade and longer. Until perhaps a relatively subjective better game comes around.

 

As you already implied or said, players are the main content drive. This offers a huge potential and many possibilities; anything not being the base planet or other object anymore will be built or modified by players, everything will be unique compared to developer-given maps, planets or bases as players have to deliver it all.

 

At the same time, this also requires a lot of community effort, as almost everything has to be made first. A huge task in a way. But this is what will keep things going I suppose. And if the need for adjustments arrives to get back on track, then surely NQ will do so in a non-invasive way when possible.

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On 16/10/2017 at 8:05 AM, Tactician said:

so been following this game for a short time looks really good but my biggest worry is the sandbox mmorpg aspect, build anywhere, player driven, uh have yu not taken a look at eve online? CCP did the same thing gave players 100% freedom to run there games universe and what did everyone turn into? trolls, griefers and muggers, same damn thing will happen here sorry to say.

OK, I know many of you are from an EVE Online background, myself included, but there is another game that I feel DU will be like, and that is Second Life. Granted Second Life (SL) uses prims instead of voxels but it is a heavily used MMO based around building and partying lol. It is a completely user built environment, however it is not a user destroyed environment like DU will be.

 

SL, like EVE, has been successfully chugging along for over a decade. It has its share of 'griefers' too but they can be dealt with, just like I'm sure will be possible in DU - especially within the safe zones, they are safe zones after all!

 

So for me the safe zones will be very much like an SL environment and other zones being more like EVE. Both will work hand in hand with the lands of opportunity (non safe zones) like the wild west creating the demand for goods and services and the safe zones being the initial way of safe building.

 

I think this is a very clever setup by NQ.

 

Over time as large orgs setup their own org safe zones then likely higher level manufacturing will occur in those 'outer rim' locations. These areas too will be relatively safe. (yes I have lived in EVE nullsec and found it quite survivable.)

 

I also think people need to get over the idea of 'the griefer'. Giefers are just people perusing their own path in the game and if you dont like that path see what you can do to stop them. This is what emergent game play is all about.

 

Being able to play solo and/or in a group(s) is a fine ambition for DU to follow. There is no right nor wrong play style here, as long as the player is happy in their style thats all that counts. And if they aren't then DU provides the paths to get the upper hand.

 

Sure, there may be tears, but every tear is a learning experience and thats what makes EVE and DU a long lasting environment. These challenges also change over time, thus keeping things interesting.

 

Where DU ends up being superior is that it may be tricky in PvP contexts to correctly size up an opponent due to diverse ship/building designs - providing more diverse/challenging and hence fun :)

 

If you believe that grinding to get to level xxx is the way to play a game then DU/EVE/SL wont be for your. Games like DU are for those that like the variety of life, the unexpected, the good and the 'bad'. That is life after all.

 

So roll on DU - your mission has just begun!

 

 

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8 hours ago, Warden said:

 

At the same time, this also requires a lot of community effort, as almost everything has to be made first. 

Honestly, if you look at the amount of out of game content creation that already exists today, I think we will be fine. 

 

Sure most people will find a small segment of the game and "grind" it out but I'm pretty optimistic about content creation in general. I assume it will be like real life where most people will want to consume. But that consumption will fuel and improve the available original content. Not to mention that we are getting a serious set of tools to create. 

 

On one hand I want this game to be a huge success on the other hand I remember trammel. It seriously increased the population of Ultima Online but a lot of the original players hated what Trammel introduced. 

 

I hope we can avoid that with DU. 

All the succes without the drawbacks, might be silly of me. I know. 

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7 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

I also think people need to get over the idea of 'the griefer'. Giefers are just people perusing their own path in the game and if you dont like that path see what you can do to stop them. This is what emergent game play is all about.

 

This made me want to jump out of my seat and yell "Amen!"

 

You will likely not be able to play this game without being shot at or shot down or vaporized on occasion, even if you pursue a path that tries to avoid combat. Frankly, I see no problem with it. If you generally want to avoid it, you will have plenty of options over time - maybe not initially as there is nothing beyond Alioth (or not much), but eventually, such as more safe zones. If you just do it right, you can even have said options initially - it all depends on who you associate with and who can back you up, no matter if right away or later on.

 

Judging from some comments or what has been implied in other games and communities about this over time, I personally feel that some might be overly nervous about "being griefed", however they want to define this. I don't see an issue in a game that will attract many types of players including those who'd rather focus on an economy, industry, entertainment, events, socializing, science, etc. You can find your group or "bubble" over time and mostly do what you want to do - at the always looming risk of overlapping conflicts or simply enemy encounters if you travel out there in space or just walk down the wrong alley in some giant town where combat would be possible due to the rights system or lack thereof.

 

I think that abstract risk is acceptable and in the end, primarily YOU can influence how real it becomes or how abstract it remains by your choices.

 

And if some person, group or faction decides to view you as enemy and pester you constantly, there are also some options to pursue in order to fight back. There are whole industry branches making money of that, I'm sure players facing a persistent opponent will find other players willing to do something about it and help - for a price or not. This also mostly depends on how you react, thus, your actions. Do or don't, basically. But if you lie down and just give up or only complain (without counter-action or evasion), nothing will change.

 

In other words: Relax, it likely will not become that bad on average, some level of order or safety will establish itself due to the safe zones or controlled territories that will also find patrols and so on. I never played EvE a lot or not much, not beyond high sec mining for a few months (yeah yeah, throw stones at me). But the stories I heard so far, over time, basically tell me that the controlled nullsec space saw huge alliances (-> many people working together) that patrolled their own space, and so far we already see police-type or defense force-type groups in various factions. Like, you can later probably call the cops or military and have them investigate or protect, instead of having to solely rely on your buddies depending on where you go.

 

How interesting is that?! Call 'dem space cops! Or bounty hunters! Or assassins! Or the army...well, navy, if it's in space.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On another note, just in general, I would like to suggest that "griefing", aka hostile action against you, can have many forms and shades. In a way, I'd almost argue that you should not worry about the random pirate or bored kid shooting you down or harassing you in some area temporarily just for crossing paths. Like, wrong time in wrong place. That usually ends eventually. Especially as not so combat oriented player or, rather, in any branch you can think of, competition can exist and does not necessarily need to engage you with weapons or blow you up.

 

Sabotage, influence operations, cloaks n' daggers, backstabbing, waltzing over you without any use of arms (or little use of them)... can destroy or set back your "in-game existence" just as well as some kid blowing up your vital cargo in some part of space.

 

And some of them might decide to simply aggressively attack you all the time, whenever they can, to build up pressure, to take your idea or company out of the picture.

 

Anything might be and should be possible, as long as we also get to see hubs that are relatively safe so that it is not total chaos and preventing players from engaging the game long-term, which is in NQ's interest and in ours, too. So far, that appears to be the case.

 

And this is why I can look into the future with a relaxed stance and not worry about (random) "griefers".

 

I'd rather worry about a really zealous opponent that might be after you at one point, whether the reason or spark for the conflict was trivial or not. Given the insights I get about possibilities, it's scary. Or can be. To me, again, more so than a random person blowing you up or annoying you for a bit.

 

But alas, all of that can be seen as part of 'emergent gameplay' - in the end, the players drive the content primarily and let 'Empires' (or other entities) rise and fall. Always in motion, never really boring, never really unexciting. But with risks anyway.

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7 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

So for me the safe zones will be very much like an SL environment and other zones being more like EVE. Both will work hand in hand with the lands of opportunity (non safe zones) like the wild west creating the demand for goods and services and the safe zones being the initial way of safe building.

 

I think this is a very clever setup by NQ.

 

Over time as large orgs setup their own org safe zones then likely higher level manufacturing will occur in those 'outer rim' locations. These areas too will be relatively safe. (yes I have lived in EVE nullsec and found it quite survivable.)

 

I also think people need to get over the idea of 'the griefer'. Giefers are just people perusing their own path in the game and if you dont like that path see what you can do to stop them. This is what emergent game play is all about.

 

Being able to play solo and/or in a group(s) is a fine ambition for DU to follow. There is no right nor wrong play style here, as long as the player is happy in their style thats all that counts. And if they aren't then DU provides the paths to get the upper hand.

 

Sure, there may be tears, but every tear is a learning experience and thats what makes EVE and DU a long lasting environment. These challenges also change over time, thus keeping things interesting.

 

Where DU ends up being superior is that it may be tricky in PvP contexts to correctly size up an opponent due to diverse ship/building designs - providing more diverse/challenging and hence fun :)

 

If you believe that grinding to get to level xxx is the way to play a game then DU/EVE/SL wont be for your. Games like DU are for those that like the variety of life, the unexpected, the good and the 'bad'. That is life after all.

 

So roll on DU - your mission has just begun!

 

 

I'm not sure NQ has very clear ideas about PvP atm tbh. Of course they're dealing with the more fundamental areas of the game before war and politics.

 

It does seem likely to me, that large bubbles for promoting stable infrastructure: Cities, Travel Routes, Space-stations etc will be needed or else PvP agency itself will need some sort of "privilege earnt or triggered".

 

Where I suspect you're right, PvP Fleet Battles are going to be the way "facts on the ground (space!)" are counted then a settlement (politics) reached.

 

I figure that's a reasonable starting point some years from now.

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Concidering that a lot of military assets will be created manually, it could lead to all out war being the last option. After negotiations, threats and sanctions. 

 

But who knows, most of us like to see stuff blow up on occasion. :P

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