Atmosph3rik

Yup.
Everyone wants to be the Tough Guy super invincible master Pirate that everyone else fears. Too bad victim volunteers are so hard to come by.
 
It's almost like how real power is gathered by those who use social engineering to create a victim pool of fearful and greedy that they can exploit.  If you want targets to shoot at, create a scenario where there is a tiny chance of great wealth and convince everyone that it can be theirs if they just **try hard enough**.
oh...
and don' t listen to those loosers who are suggesting that we would all be better off if we just help one another.

I think it's funny that the majority of self-proclaimed "PVP" players all demand to get to be the pirate.  But none of them seem to be interested in playing the game in a way that creates PVP for other players.  Get out there and haul something in the PVP zone, build something in the PVP zone.  Do something in the PVP zone.
 
Everyone wants a shooting gallery.  But no one wants to be the duck.
 
Have you considered that's because shooting galleries are boring, and no one wants to be the duck?

I think it's funny that the majority of self-proclaimed "PVP" players all demand to get to be the pirate.  But none of them seem to be interested in playing the game in a way that creates PVP for other players.  Get out there and haul something in the PVP zone, build something in the PVP zone.  Do something in the PVP zone.
 
Everyone wants a shooting gallery.  But no one wants to be the duck.
 
Have you considered that's because shooting galleries are boring, and no one wants to be the duck?

I think it's funny that the majority of self-proclaimed "PVP" players all demand to get to be the pirate.  But none of them seem to be interested in playing the game in a way that creates PVP for other players.  Get out there and haul something in the PVP zone, build something in the PVP zone.  Do something in the PVP zone.
 
Everyone wants a shooting gallery.  But no one wants to be the duck.
 
Have you considered that's because shooting galleries are boring, and no one wants to be the duck?

The most valuable resources are in pvp space. And, assuming pvp players like to pvp, it is also the only place where pvp players can do that thing they like.

People who want to have some tight pvp action are not drawn by pvp, the whole framework doesn’t really work for good pvp. Instead of adding more and more stuff to pvp space, and making changes for all players to balance pvp even if it harms pve players, maybe it is time for NQ to instead look for more ways to make pve more interesting and work with what DU is already quite good at. Look at games like Stormworks, Airmen, Satisfactory to compliment the who player driven, resource management, ship building, civilisation building thing. Stop trying to shoehorn the whole game into the pvp genre.

And if some percentage of the pve players like pvp, you get more pvp players, too. because the pve players can live without the pvp players.

What is it with you guys and "PvP is too small and only visible at the edges"? PvP is the largest area in the game, so this small safe zone is hardly worth mentioning. 
The problem is not the size of the zone, but that there are too few interested PvP players. But that's not the fault of the PvE players.
What prevents PvPers from building up space bases in PvP and then simply defending them? That's right, you could lose them, which is why PvPers also prefer to build in the safe zone....
 

It might not be a bad thing if NQ were to take a step back and consider whether people will accept "lock and fire" mmo style combat.  Which has always been the plan for all combat in DU including Avatar vs Avatar.  There has always been a bit of cognitive dissonance in the community when it comes to accepting that.
 
Maybe it's not worth it to spend several years developing "lock and fire" AvA combat, if everyone is just going to hate it.
 
Construct vs Construct PVP still needs a lot of work, and especially some depth and specialization.  But it seems like the majority of the people complaining about it simply don't like the fact that it's lock and fire.
 
People who are drawn to the game simply because of the words PVP aren't interested in hearing about technical limitations, they just want realistic combat.  But i don't know what NQ is supposed to do about that.

Sometimes shedding more light just exposes more flaws.
 
 

It's funny that the top two threads right now are basically, 
 
"What if only PVP?"
 
&
 
"What if only building?"
 
We've advanced to the third stage of grief.

And what happened to Life is Feudal: MMO? They shut it down: 18th of January 2021. Three years after Early Access (the equivalent of DU Beta). 8 months before that, they did the wipe... Is this a prediction for a DU wipe? No, but neither are any other 'success' stories about wipes...

Linear thinking. They could easily do a honeycomb+LUA-only magic BP with elements having to be sourced again. Destroying any voxel/LUA creations is just bad business. Half the value of the whole IP is stuff players have built from voxels/LUA. Keeping honeycomb and LUA has no detrimental effect on other players. Worst case, there's a glut of honeycomb after launch which only deflates the price of honeycomb for new players - but no one is spending money on honeycomb early game if we're all broke again, so no one is getting rich selling honeycomb. Bottom line though: It's a total red herring worrying about players who got rich off exploits. It's a nonsense. And shouldn't be a factor in wipe design. Many more players got rich(er) off hard work, or OP mission running/ALT loophole. All the billionaires I know did it through a daily slog of doing jobs/builds for other players, and one from missions/ALTs. The only reason to wipe is to satisfy those who feel inadequate starting a game where others are ahead of them - in which case they'd never start any MMO ever post-launch. (Not sure that's even the kind of player you want in a community.) (A) It's weak to ask for a reset rather than try to catch-up. That kind of person just falls behind and complain again anyway. (B) As shown above they joined up in the context that NQ had said 'no wipe' and now want the terms changed to suit them,

All of them. If those are the kind of players that will only play if I lose what I paid for, then I can do without those kinds of people/players. And how long will you keep those new 'players'? And will you keep doing new skill wipes every six months/year?
 
How many long time paying (subscription) customers are you willing to lose if you wipe Talent Points?
 
Now, it would be different that if I had 24 months of subscription on a character, NQ paid me in 24 DAC. While not exactly happy, that would make me consider staying. But that's effectively giving away subscription time=money, which imho they don't really have.

I agree, the idea of DU is great and it's unfortunate the one of the few games to challenge the boring formula of MMOs has faced so many challenges. Innovation is hard. 
 
I also agree that a game like DU will eventually materialize. I believe it will get easier over time to make something like this, especially as technology around infrastructure improves. 
 
What DU has tried to achieve is no small thing -- and while they aren't so "indie" with >$22 million, they are indie compared to simple MMOs developed by big studios with over 10 times the budget. 
 
I think NQ made a lot of mistakes that would have been avoided if they'd had more experienced leadership from the start, but I do hope that the idea of this project endures in some way, shape, or form.

It's not that i want to give NQ a lot of credit, or even blame the investors for doing what needs to be done.  It's just that in the beginning they were trying to make something awesome, and if the mistakes that they've made in the past, and the "rules" of business dictate that they can't afford to do that anymore, that's a huge bummer.
 
I've never been involved with a startup, but i've been involved in opening a few restaurants.  And unfortunately, the trap a lot of people seem to fall into, is spending all the money on performatively "opening a restaurant".  Instead of spending the money on building something that will make money.
 
Spending money is just more fun than making money.
 
It's cool that NQ has so many offices and employees and all that.  I just wish they had saved a little money for making the game.
 
I don't know what they are supposed to do when they run out of "runway".  But i don't think pulling the plane over and just telling everyone that we've reached our destination is going to work.
 
It's unfortunate that so many mistakes were made.  But what's happening now isn't a mistake, it's a decision.  And that sucks a lot more than a mistake in my opinion.
 
Maybe there's just a point where they've spent too much money on the idea, and they just can't spend anymore.  But i still think the idea is worth money, and if they don't spend the money to make it happen, someone else probably will.

Sure NQ is responsible for all the bungling in the beginning.
 
But the current blind push to make money with a product that they don't even understand, and isn't finished, is clearly coming from the investors.  At least in the beginning NQ was trying to work towards a version of "success" that included making the game that they set out to make.
 
I don't really see any reason to give the investors any credit for investing in a risk either.  It's what they do.  When it pans out, they make a thousand times more money than they would investing in a sure thing, that everyone else is already selling too.
 
The way i see it, they thought they were investing in the next Fortnite, and when they realized that it might not be a huge enough goldmine, they decided to try to recoup losses instead of seeing it through.
 
It's the classic story of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, because it wasn't laying them fast enough.
 
 

I never considered that they might wipe talent points until yesterday.
 
But you've pointed out so many times that if they have good news, there's no reason not to share it.  The only reason to remain tight lipped is if they have bad news.
 
Why would they specifically mention that they won't be wiping core BPs, but not mention talent points?  Seems like an easy opportunity to gain a little good faith from the player base.
 
 

I really think there needs to be a clear set of guidelines for when you should use the in-game help channel, and what for.
 
If i asked NQ to repair my ship every time i crashed it because of lag or disconnects, they would need to hire a full-time employee to follow me around.  But I also refuse to fly anything larger than an S core, because i don't feel like spending an hour repairing a ship.  The repair system is really tedious and unnecessarily punishing especially with larger ships.  
 
I've only asked for help in situations where i had a bugged element, like a VR pod that was permanently occupied, or when i couldn't enter the command seat of a ship.  And i've always been amazed how fast they usually respond, and how quickly they were able to solve the problems.
 
I don't think the in-game help channel should be used as a repair service.  But i also think NQ needs to take a serious look at how painful the repair process is. 
 
The insanely large number of elements that are required to make an L core ship fly, is definitely making the issue worse too.
 
 
 

I mean, if it did, it would be leaving all those poor star citizen players with nothing else to play, because the two games have almost nothing in common other than the word Space.
 
 

I mean, if it did, it would be leaving all those poor star citizen players with nothing else to play, because the two games have almost nothing in common other than the word Space.
 
 

I always pictured DU's success would be the kind of slow snowball effect that happened with games like Minecraft.  That happens when one person sees another person enjoying the game, and they think, "Hey i might enjoy that too!".
 
But for that to happen they need to finish the game, and let the people who enjoy it, enjoy it.  And at the moment it honestly doesn't seem like either of those things are a priority anymore.
 
They have about half of an incredible game, and that in itself is pretty interesting, but they're only going to get away with capitalizing on that interest for so long.
 
  
 
 
 

First things first, I don't hate DU, nor hate the devs and the GM/CMs, those always were quite friendly and open to talking with players. What I hate is how the management at NQ is going to end up killing DU in their pseudo-race to see how quickly they can release it. I don't care if the game takes ten years to release and they keep charging for it as a beta, I do care about getting a good game with nice mechanics, something actually enjoyable, in return.
 
Like really, NQ is going to end up doing a paper release of DU with mechanics that are either half-finished or aren't even enjoyable and they are going to spend the only "hype" moment of release they can with it. This isn't the same as No Mans Sky that did a full 180 and became a cool game, it is an exception not a rule. If the game doesn't take off on release it might never make it. Anyways, here's what I feel about what NQ called the game "pillars" in their state today:
 
- Building and scription, well I must reckon, the voxel and Lua tech on this game is amazing and you can clearly see the devs did a work of love there, building and scripting is very nice and can be a rabbit hole if you want! Kudos to the devs working on that!
 
- Piloting is also quite good, I like the simulator feeling of DU and how we can fly in and out of space, even with autopilots it never gets old. As some people have mentioned before, it would be nice to have multi-role (rotating) engines though and maybe some passive wheels that behaved like landing gears.
 
- Mining is now reduced to just machines spitting out infinite ore after you find your unicorn 600L flower and asteroids on the Saturdays. Yeah, because the lack of rolling release of asteroids makes them mostly useless during weeks, even the ones at PVP zone. The whole "discovered but not public" thing is also a really poor attempt at forcing players to cross each other's path instead of relying on "emergent gameplay".
 
- Combat/PVP is a joke as it is right now. Clicking buttons to "target" and "fire at" someone and praying to the almighty RNG/talents instead of relying on actual skills might have worked for some early MMO in the 2000s, but definitely not for such a "big and innovative" game such as DU and in 2022. The issue gets even worse when atmospheric/planetary combat gets mentioned.
 
- Trading is okay-ish, the markets definitely need an UI overhaul, but it works. Player markets are nowhere to be seen (other in Scoopy's lost inventory, that is) and I'm quite sure they won't show up for a long time.
 
- Social, oh social. DU wants to be a metaverse and tries its best to push players to socialize, but does so by punishing those who want to play solo. There's orgs, sure, but what's the benefit of those other than maybe sharing some constructs or elements? You would assume that by having your tiles close to your org mates you would have benefits and all, but instead you actually lose the mining bonuses? Now this is inside an org. Try to scale this to something such as a nation, that was one of the things DU wanted to create (with politics, etc), why would people do that to themselves by living nearby just to create a pseudo-nation? That's not to say the really -really- bad communication system. Sometimes the only chat tabs I'll see is Lua and maybe General, and that's it. For the rest of time I won't even remember other chat channels exist. VoIP is also non-existant, which honestly makes no sense for a game who wants to be a metaverse or at least to have emphasis on social aspects.
 
- Industry, well it's fun. It's really nice but schematics are quite meh and I've said a few times before it would work much better to have an unlockable tree system instead. But yeah, let's copy EVE on that. The whole linking concept is a bit meh, I really would like to see factories with conveyors (even if they were opaque like in SE), but I understand that limitation.
 
Anyways, this is what I can say about the game in like the year and half I've been around. Please don't get me wrong, I really like DU and wouldn't have spent so many hours playing it if I didnt, but I also know there's a lot of room for improvement here and that releasing right now is a bit of a bad idea for everyone, except for management, but well, let's hope for the best...
 
Also a quick extra note here regarding DACs. I think it's a really bad idea to release them without a proper way of trading them in-game. Not only scams will happen a lot, which will lead to lots of people complaining on NQ's support tickets, but also will probably be an open door to RWT to happen, more than the game already has. Please NQ, invest your time and get this stuff properly tradeable in-game before releasing it. Thanks.

If a wipe makes sense to you.  Then all of this should make sense too.  Because this is clearly the best plan they could come up with.  How could they have handled this any better?
 
Telling us everything too soon means no more testers until after release.  Telling us nothing means no one gets a chance to prepare for the wipe.
 
So they decided to warm us up to the idea by vaguely babbling about a wipe for a few months, so when they finally admit what they are planning it isn't such a shock.
 
It's a crap plan.  But it's a crap plan that began with them announcing the final wipe and starting to sell subscriptions when the game was half finished.
 
If you believe another wipe is the right decision, i don't see how you can be critical of the rest of their glorious plan.

First off,
1.    this statement from SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION doesn't make sense
·    
With that logic, you as in NQ would have to wipe the servers with every wave of new players to keep DU balanced. Players that have been on DU for more than a day will always have more game knowledge, talent points, wealth, constructs already owned then a player that starts the day before. This will never change and can’t be changed    
 
2.    NQ has always talked about having a bigger universe. Why not with the current solar system, bring planets a little closer together, make it a PVE\starter solar system. Create a copy\new system and\or systems that are PVP only. Everyone then has a place.
 
3.    I am ok with a game wipe if it fixes issue and we can keep our talent points, blueprints and possible our money. Talent point have taken along time to accumulate since its was implemented, and some of our BP have taken days\months to create. If that get wiped the last 4 years playing this game would of been for nothing.
 
 

The build box question/answer was a bit painful to hear.
 
We shouldn't have to beg for stuff like that.  The first person at NQ who tried to build on an XS core should have seen the glaring issue and made it a priority.
 
You aren't doing us a favor by making the game better.  We're doing you a favor by pointing this stuff out.
 
 

The build box question/answer was a bit painful to hear.
 
We shouldn't have to beg for stuff like that.  The first person at NQ who tried to build on an XS core should have seen the glaring issue and made it a priority.
 
You aren't doing us a favor by making the game better.  We're doing you a favor by pointing this stuff out.