kulkija

One good material sink would be Recycling with material loss. Also it would be destroying elements which will not sell and enabling to manufacture elements which has demand. 

NQ do you really think schematics is the problem? In my opinion the problem is that you do not have any long term plans and goals, you just radically change things and you wait how does that work, this way you kill this game. Please focus all your coding power to implement new things to this game -> when game starts to lure more players in, markets will heal. Its just economy around living active universe. More interesting planets -> more to explore, more unique items (items you cannot craft!) -> dangerous places (if you really do not want pve, danger can be achieved via weather, unstable wormholes, etc) -> this kind of things creates interest. Now we have several allmost similar planets, pvp is crap, players are quitting, economy is not working (because time to time you change everything related to it and people sell everything they own crazy cheap). On top of all this, you have mentioned wipe, many players parked their ambitions and goals for their digital "Star Life" and they are now waiting for possible wipe... Sad.
 
I think you still have the most interesting platform to make it. To be the best space sim where people will spend countless hours enjoying things all we space breathing individuals dream in our dreams. Dont change existing, go forward and we follow...

NQ-Entropy:
"When we released schematics in 0.23, it was to address a problem that had the potential to adversely affect Dual Universe as an MMO. Players were able to be fully self-sufficient with ‘build-it-all’ factories, reducing interaction between players in the game’s economy."
 
I would like to point out three items that were both in the original, and the December 2019 Roadmap (the last one published I believe):
 

 

 
and
 

 
The first implies I should be able to craft everything I need for my bases and ships.  e.g.  If I wanted to invest the time, I should be able to build a factory that can create everything I need for my bases and ships - or perhaps, like I did pre-0.23, create multiple large core space stations that combined did what I needed.  I spent 1000s of hours doing that, often 12-14 hours a day.
 
The second:  note the "or even" - use of elements was primarily intended for me and my friends, with the market an option - not a requirement.
 
The third:  Oh, wait, that is now "post release" with NQ systems substituted.
 
If the problem was lack of interaction, then perhaps the focus should have been on eliminating the NQ markets and bots and evolve towards player run ones.  Not, as other have posted, "Go re-establish civilization - we have set up dozens of fully stocked marketplaces for you throughout the solar system and established a taxation system to ensure your loyalty dependance on us."
 
The current system does not meet any of the 3 stated game goals, nor match the lore that was advertised.  Go offline, re-design to meet the goals, and relaunch in a year or two.  Your current path is a death spiral.  Maybe spend some time monitoring other games, like Fractured Veil, and see how real customer interaction works. 
 
It wouldn't hurt to force all designers to read  Tynan Sylvester's "Designing Games" book and commit to the principles it contains.
 
 

Sounds like another step away from player driven economy.
Producing items consume schematics copies.
Copying schematics will cost "a small fee".
This will create new TAX
 
Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big.
 
Great TAX simulator
 
 

This I do not understand.
 
We were  supposed to enter totally empty alien planet in a spaceship and start there from the scratch.
In this original scenario only way to proceed is to be self-sufficient.
Bigger goals maybe by small groups or later in orgs, but self-sufficient still.
 
Now we got tens of fully furnished markets all over the planets in this whole solar system. Who build them. Not us; which we were supposed to build.
 
If ever we can find a new solar system or new planet, will those be full of Market buildings even before one human has stepped down from a ship after finding it?
How to colonies new planets if we can not be self sufficient?
 
This handhelding Themepark game is not what I opted in at Kickstarter.
 
Before 0.23 there was lots of in-game interactions. Game was alive and fun. Schematics killed all of that. 
 
Interactions between players will newer happen by force. No way!
NQ: Stop this interactions by force nonsense
 
Interactions will only happen if we, the players, choose to do so.
 
Edit:
ps. How will using markets create interactions between players???
I can do most of my business anonymously and remotely. Even if I visit marketplace I newer interact with a player "because doing business." Current markets just do not need or enable player-interactions.
 
Before 0.23 we had lots of group-game-play operations, Mining ops, Hauling stuff for org members (way before missions), building together, helping to fix ships, rescue missions, manufacturing for other org members, you name it, we did it.
None of those required interventions by Aphelia nor using Markets.
 
We avoided markets because of all that junk and lag there. Some created own in-org markets by using dispensers in a creative way.
I created small factory and org members started to bring in ore and I manufactured (only) what they needed.
Our small org had only 3 factories, other members were using our services.
Building "‘build-it-all’ Mega factory" was in our plans as a Shared Org - project. What was wrong in that???
 
We did not need guidance by Aphelia or NQ.
 
Who ever said there was not enough interactions before 0.23 did lye.
 
Secondly:
 ‘build-it-all’ factory manufactures nothing. Nothing at all. Running that kind of factory is a huge effort which only few players want to do.
‘build-it-all’ factory actually creates interactions and enables group-game-play. Manufacturing only few items and selling them at markets kills interactions.
Also factories mostly produce elements which have no use as they are when they appear into container. Those elements only enables further more advanced game-play such as PVP, ship building (both for pvp and other ships) . etc.
 
 

This I do not understand.
 
We were  supposed to enter totally empty alien planet in a spaceship and start there from the scratch.
In this original scenario only way to proceed is to be self-sufficient.
Bigger goals maybe by small groups or later in orgs, but self-sufficient still.
 
Now we got tens of fully furnished markets all over the planets in this whole solar system. Who build them. Not us; which we were supposed to build.
 
If ever we can find a new solar system or new planet, will those be full of Market buildings even before one human has stepped down from a ship after finding it?
How to colonies new planets if we can not be self sufficient?
 
This handhelding Themepark game is not what I opted in at Kickstarter.
 
Before 0.23 there was lots of in-game interactions. Game was alive and fun. Schematics killed all of that. 
 
Interactions between players will newer happen by force. No way!
NQ: Stop this interactions by force nonsense
 
Interactions will only happen if we, the players, choose to do so.
 
Edit:
ps. How will using markets create interactions between players???
I can do most of my business anonymously and remotely. Even if I visit marketplace I newer interact with a player "because doing business." Current markets just do not need or enable player-interactions.
 
Before 0.23 we had lots of group-game-play operations, Mining ops, Hauling stuff for org members (way before missions), building together, helping to fix ships, rescue missions, manufacturing for other org members, you name it, we did it.
None of those required interventions by Aphelia nor using Markets.
 
We avoided markets because of all that junk and lag there. Some created own in-org markets by using dispensers in a creative way.
I created small factory and org members started to bring in ore and I manufactured (only) what they needed.
Our small org had only 3 factories, other members were using our services.
Building "‘build-it-all’ Mega factory" was in our plans as a Shared Org - project. What was wrong in that???
 
We did not need guidance by Aphelia or NQ.
 
Who ever said there was not enough interactions before 0.23 did lye.
 
Secondly:
 ‘build-it-all’ factory manufactures nothing. Nothing at all. Running that kind of factory is a huge effort which only few players want to do.
‘build-it-all’ factory actually creates interactions and enables group-game-play. Manufacturing only few items and selling them at markets kills interactions.
Also factories mostly produce elements which have no use as they are when they appear into container. Those elements only enables further more advanced game-play such as PVP, ship building (both for pvp and other ships) . etc.
 
 

Sounds like another step away from player driven economy.
Producing items consume schematics copies.
Copying schematics will cost "a small fee".
This will create new TAX
 
Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big.
 
Great TAX simulator
 
 

Blueprints will be useless because so many changes. And more to come
 
About progress.
Personally I do not count Talent points as a "progress". They are 100% afk game-play.
 
For me progress is what I've done in game by actually playing it.
- got my Alioth tile
- created my base
- created small in-house factory for my orgs needs
- Created Space station and bought space elevator. (Again serving my org)
- Collected all elements and materials to spawn my AG ship from Alpha BP
- Bought several cool ships
-e.t.c
This is progress. This I hate to loose
 
 
 

Honestly, I think this new proposed system is even worse than the current implementation of schematics. First, because it adds yet another two chores for the players, which are:
- Babysitting your character's schematic copying queue
- Going through each and every machine putting down new schematics
 
Let's get this out and clear, the whole point of industry and factories in a game is to automate things you don't want to do manually. If players were into having to babysit their stuff like this the nanopack would have way more usage than it currently does.
 
This new feature isn't gonna add more "fun" or "engagement" to the game, but just add yet another artificial limitation. You keep promoting the game as a player-driven sandbox but also try to mold it in your own ways, meanwhile things that should be given a bit more of attention, such as the gameplay department of "things to do inside the game" is lacking, specially after you're past the grinding part and into the "let's have fun" part, and adding a chore to the game won't fix that.
Like, why would someone pay a subscription of something where the only thing they have to do is to once in a while copy some schematics or calibrate miners, but have nothing actually fun to do?
 
Also, this new approach to schematics gives alt-account players yet another benefit. By this point I honestly think it's something intentional or by design, like an attempt at bringing P2W into DU but not in a very explicit way. I know NQ is desperate about money and keeping afloat, but maybe you should look into other ways of making an income, maybe letting players buy merch or even talent points and quanta, at least you would be honest about it.
 
Finally, if you guys want to make DU something cool and attractive, then why not look into stuff such as NPC fights or in-game events? Or lore and community quests? I mean, it's way better than adding yet another babysitting/chore "feature" that sounds worse than the already bad schematics we currently have...

So you're now... what, leasing the Schematics instead of selling them ? You're patenting them ?

Whatever the word is and although I understand, thanks to @TobiwanKenobi, that this solution is more élégante than brute-force selling, it still means that technology belongs to "Aphelia" just like everything else: the lands, the markets, the wargrounds...

Once again, this is not our civilization we're building here.

This game needs fun, and adding more micromanagement tedium is generally not considered fun by players..

Sounds like another step away from player driven economy.
Producing items consume schematics copies.
Copying schematics will cost "a small fee".
This will create new TAX
 
Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big.
 
Great TAX simulator
 
 

Sounds like another step away from player driven economy.
Producing items consume schematics copies.
Copying schematics will cost "a small fee".
This will create new TAX
 
Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big.
 
Great TAX simulator
 
 

economic stability, how do you figure they can archive that with people leaving the game?
 
the servers are not the resource, the players are the resources, NQ needs to gain and retain users badly
 
 

As a solo player I can say this... you took a system that worked fine (but took forever to build) and [filtered]ed it up with schematics, and with this change I don't feel like you are going back in the "fun" direction... feels like you are going further into what's wrong with the current system...
 
For a game about building stuff, you seem to love to put roadblocks in front of builders...
 
Edit: I just realized you are implementing the equivalent of microtransactions for schematics...

Sounds like another step away from player driven economy.
Producing items consume schematics copies.
Copying schematics will cost "a small fee".
This will create new TAX
 
Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big.
 
Great TAX simulator
 
 

Sounds like another step away from player driven economy.
Producing items consume schematics copies.
Copying schematics will cost "a small fee".
This will create new TAX
 
Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big.
 
Great TAX simulator
 
 

First I will say I'm glad that the Schematics will still exist. However with the current idea that has been presented, I have MANY MANY questions.

As a factory builder who was attracted to this game for the Factory building aspects, (I have no interest in combat or PVP.) the changes that are proposed to the schematics seem to be aimed at frustrating and destroying factories in DU. Looking at Large operations like SVEA and Gottchar this will def wound those operations.

Even small factories having to print and load schematics for 2000 programming boards? 

The post calls out HoneyComb RIP Honeycomb Central. We have several large player built cities that exist in the world and are being built. Atlantis comes to mind. This will make that project so much more frustrating, since now they will need millions of schematics to make the billions of honeycomb needed for the build.

I understand we want player interaction, and that Mega factories cause lag and other issues for the game. But with the addition of the Exchange and this change to schematics. IS NQ building a Sand Box for us to play in? or a playpen? Do you want player interaction? or do you want player interaction that NQ has control in and gets a cut of the profits? 

Also how is Fuel going to work? will we need Schematics for those? how about Warp Cells? We need more information, and once again we have a massive sweeping change to the game. that will destroy at least 2 days of my work building my little tiny medium core factory. Don't even get me started on larger factories that I have no information of. I can imagine how much chaos this will add to SVEA, Gotttchar, Honjo  and so many other large factories. 

Not to mention the new Mini game of loading the schematics in to the machines. I want to play a game to have fun escape the real world for a little while and meet new and awesome people, Not be stuffed into the bowels of my factory twice a week attempting to find all the machines that are now idle because they ran out of copies of copies of schematics. 

Also why charge players for making copies of schematics that they bought? seems like an un needed Tax on the economy? we are already taxed on the land we mine on, The Selling of items in the exchange, Storing Items in the Exchange, Do we think there is going to be a large market for selling single use schematics on the exchange? is that going to be the new way to generate and bleed the factories to death? 

Much like the real world. If we make it difficult for people to produce the things we need in game, then we wont have the items we need to build the ships to play. If you kill all the farms in the real world then we have no food to eat.

Sorry for the Rambling, just a little confused as to why NQ doesn't want us to play their amazing creation.

TLDR; Schematic Changes sound like a bad plan that will kill factories.

Sounds like another step away from player driven economy.
Producing items consume schematics copies.
Copying schematics will cost "a small fee".
This will create new TAX
 
Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big.
 
Great TAX simulator
 
 

Sounds like another step away from player driven economy.
Producing items consume schematics copies.
Copying schematics will cost "a small fee".
This will create new TAX
 
Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big.
 
Great TAX simulator
 
 

Yes we need to see this in action. I'm having trouble not thinking of this as turning a working system into a yet another tedious time wasting quanta pit.
 

This update is essentially a cap on "global" industry (there is a limit to the number of schematics produceable by the population), and a soft cap on individual industry (a limit to the number of schematic training slots, and cash/willpower in buying in extra schematics).
 
Some good points:
Removing schematics for many items and some limited (but not all) elements will reduce some of the tedium. Will allow NQ to balance the economy in different ways in contrast to the current just schematic prices. (Inert comment about autominers.) Some bad points (i.e. needs a QoL pass):
Tedium of eternally loading batches of schematics into the machines (and finding the machines). Tedium of eternally needing to purchase/deliver schematics from markets (self-producing won't be enough, unless you heavily alt-up). A few times counts as gameplay, eternally makes it another daily chore eventually. Not fun on top of calibrations.  
@Gottchar's suggestion in Discord is that schematics could be auto-distributed to the relevant industry unit in a factory from a central location. This could be the unit that produces an individual's schematics. This would reduce the distribution tedium, as well enable group play when players notice "oh we are low on schematic X" and then proceeds to resolve this.

So you decided to rip off Eve directly once more. Not inventing a gameplay loop of your own but directly copying an existing one and not even trying to hide it. 
 
If I wanted to play eve I would go play that. But the way you guys keep going you might as well go back and work for CCP.

i guess i might not understand correctly how this new system will work but so far it sounds like a mistake, the fact that the schematics are consumable more specifically sound like a mistake it will simply get things even more complicated to manage. Keep in mind that the best limit we had is that players with high talents are able to sell items for cheaper than the cost in material a player with no talents could build an item. That alone forces players to specialise in industry if they are serious about it. For now mining units can supply ore easely since the amount of players is verry low but with a greather amount of players that situation should change and help to sell ore at a reasonable price to stimulate the economy.
 
As of right now it sounds like a system that will stimulate the creation of alt accounts so that players can have easy access to the schematics talents tree  

Not true. 
 
When automated factory is ready, it does not produce nothing.
 
You have to supply constant flow of ore to make your factory run.
You also need to cover costs for acquiring raw materials.
 
At this point you are only creating losses, and yes your game will be soon over because you run out of Quanta.
 
To at least cover costs running your factory you need to sell stuff, with profit.