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Preferred logout mechanics?

Preferred logout mechanics?  

142 members have voted

  1. 1. What kind of logout mechanic do you prefer for your body?

    • Ragdoll falls down (similar to Ark)
      21
    • Body vanishes/fades away
      42
    • Need to log out in cryochamber/bed
      65
    • Other (explain below)
      14


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@ShadowLordAlpha


If the ships have only a single player in them, then they should despawn. But on multicrew ships, the owner's ragequit should not suddenly leavy 5 other guys floating in space. And you should clarify on constructs as ships and buildings. I'm talking ships vanishing, if there's only one player in them. If buildings were to vanish that would be some hilarious shit right there.


And SE is not the most prime example of MMO. Try to fly a ship in MMO SE and the server blade starts shrieking like Golum in the Fellowship of the Ring's torture scene by the orcs.


And as far as "two parter ship" idea goes. That would be quite impossible to pull off in the game engine without crunching the server. If you were talking of a core ship, surrounded in layers of lesser quality armor as a buffer, then I would say... sure, why not. Bu you are talking of a bullshit idea that is wanky at best. Think of going into warp/jumpspace. You arrive on the next star system. You are one armor thinner. You want the armor to follow? You have to make the ship a single entity. 

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@Fitorion

 

 

Look at what your wrote above that last comment of mine mate. You spoke of crewed ships, that won't disappear, because your guild's ship will be always having beds on it. You want to be forced to go back to bed in a guild ship? Like this is some sort of survival game or something. It's silly to say the least. Sure, I can see an autopllot option back to wherever your base is. I can see vanish logout. But I don't want RP forced o me in an MMO. You want to sleep on beds, fine, your RP fantasy. I'm not in for the RP.

 

You should re-read what I've been writing because your imagination is running wild and going places I have not said anything that would direct it to.

 

 

The cryo bed or bed for short is just a physical terminal where you can log off and spawn at.  If you're on a guild crewed ship... you're doing stuff with your guild... are they not going to let you off when they stop at a planet or base?  Are you saying that if you log off any old place while you're on a ship flying through space piloted by someone else that you shouldn't appear there when you log back in?

 

Maybe the ragdoll advocates want to sleep in a bed... I just want a convenient place to log off and back on at where you vanish... that makes thematic sense.  A cryobed can be hidden away in a room so it hides the person vanishing into thin air... for the RP minded...  But it doesn't mean you're physically in the bed.  It's just a spawn point you can register at... or not... as you choose... that's disguised as something that fits in the setting.

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so the rag doll idea i find just totally amusing. can you guys imagine how many lifeless bodies would be lying around the safe area around the ark 5 years after release. it would look like a zombie apocalypse game, in fact im sure some us would be telling new players to watch out for the zombie attacks.

 

in all seriousness though i think the most fair decision to make here, would be to use a combination of vanish and cryobed. if a player logs out in the field it would trigger something like a 30 second timer, if any action what so ever is taken or you are attacked during that 30 seconds the log out is canceled. if you go to a cryobed to log out you log out immediately and get a very small bonus to skill training.

 

i think if you are aboard a small single player ship that ship should vanish with the player if they are in the cockpit, if you are not in the cockpit when you logout the ship should stay in the game world.

 

and large crewed multiplayer ships should never disappear from the game world. if you log out aboard a large ship and you want to still be aboard when you log back in you should need to go to a cryobed. as i think it would make things easier for the server to track what cryobed to spawn you next to in a moving construct. but something needs to be in place to handle what to do with players who are logged out on a crewed ship that has been destroyed. i guess sending them wherever the rest of the crew who was logged in got sent would do. at least that would be better than logging in floating in the void with no ship in sight.

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I like the idea of a souless logout type system. Basically when in a safe zone or area that does not allow PvP logout is instant but when not in such a zone then logout takes a bit of time (or your body ragdolls). There should also be a system where if you are in combat (like PvE or someone breaking PvP rules in a town) within a safe area it will take x amount of time for you to actually log out similar to not being in a safe zone.

I like that idea very much. I'm all for a bit of realism like that. It adds tension and excitement.

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I'd prefer something akin to rust, you go to sleep and all your stuff even your ship you're in are persistent in the world. People can kill your sleeping form if your not in a safe zone and steal his stuff. This would be quite harsh but a rather fun experience for those on the fringes trying to dominate the pvp areas, you'd build bases with AI run defences specially to guard your sleeping form and your docked ship.

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Some kind of mix might be better. Disappear into thin air when you log out. When you return, you have to option to respawn where you were, as you were (with all your stuff in your inventory) or at the cryopod nearest to you, with a blank inventory. If you were killed when trying to combat log or w/e, then the resurrection node mechanics would take over instead.

 

No ragdolls. (better for servers and for heavily populated areas)

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@Fitorion

 

 

Space Hotel. They are allowed to sleep for a fixed price. Could be amazing if you were to offer cruise services as well, going fom planet to planet, carrying people who want to go incognito (or let's face it, they may be cheap on the gas).

 

So much win

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Logout in cryochamber that's obvious but... Cryo needs to have 5 km safezone, which means in case of sudden disconnection body is molecular transported into nearest player cryochamber. Cockpits of small ships needs to act like cryochamber. Body in cryo is untouchable, in case of cryo/cockpit destruction body is transfered to next owned cryo/cockpit. When last one is destroyed player is killed and need to be resurrected in nearest owned resurrection station (can't remember correct name for that sort of point). There shouldn't be any penalties in case of offline death... Except of normal property lose. While offline owned ship with player in cryostasis ship stops and goes into stealth mode. Predator like cloak would be enough, plus zero radio, energy signature emitting. So ships can be found and pillaged but it would be really hard to find them. Ships with offline defences can't go cloak until such defense is online - cloak requires absolute still position, nothing can move within cloak field. There should be way to alter rules, automate em, so player could choose couple offline behaviors with one default in case of Internet failure. No rug dolls what so ever! Playing should be fun, not playing also... I would not like to stress cause of game. If it comes to combat-exit player should suffer consequences in that case rug doll is more than welcome. However rug doll state shouldn't last longer than 10 minutes. More or less you get concept. Hope it will look more or less like I just described.

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Players should rag doll except when in a safe zone(then they can just disappear). Since ships are not anything special they would have to stay in the game no matter what. As far as i know the game will not separate small ships from big ships or buildings. All of these are just voxel structures with elements so having them disappear seems like bad idea. I think the idea of a cryobed is nice but mostly as a better way to stay logged out. Offering protection or some type of well rested buff that decreases damage taken or w/e. If I have to walk to a cryobed simply to log out for a couple of minutes or I die/get penalized I will probably not play this game. In my eyes that is an awful mechanic. Cryobeds should be a buff not a requirement.

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I'm going to have kids soon. Like all children they will decide to have meltdowns at the worse possible time, such as Daddy's computer game time. And I might not be able to hop back on again for 20 hours due to work, making dinner, actually playing with my children, etc.

 

Am I not going to be able to do anything outside of a safe zone just because I am a parent?

 

Granted this example is going to a care bear extreme, but in eve I know my ship will despawn in 15 minutes and I can adjust what i do and don't do accordingly. If i'm in high sec, or in my alliances null or wormhole space I can assume with reasonable confidence that my ship wont be destroyed in that 15 minutes. Not always, but a risk I can take/afford. I run a much bigger risk if my ship stayed spawned for the entire time I was logged out.

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I'm going to have kids soon. Like all children they will decide to have meltdowns at the worse possible time, such as Daddy's computer game time. And I might not be able to hop back on again for 20 hours due to work, making dinner, actually playing with my children, etc.

 

Am I not going to be able to do anything outside of a safe zone just because I am a parent?

 

Granted this example is going to a care bear extreme, but in eve I know my ship will despawn in 15 minutes and I can adjust what i do and don't do accordingly. If i'm in high sec, or in my alliances null or wormhole space I can assume with reasonable confidence that my ship wont be destroyed in that 15 minutes. Not always, but a risk I can take/afford. I run a much bigger risk if my ship stayed spawned for the entire time I was logged out.

Well, an EVE log-out mechanic defuses the point of a safe zone's financial importance and the permanence of the Voxel constructs as they are. The idea of an ark-zone is to have a place where nobody can steal your ship when you are logged out. If your ship can despawn, a lot of things go wrong that way, both gameplay and server code-wise.

 

You can't have Voxel constructs that are permanent and have them despawn, that's not how permanent works, sadly. That would also make your house in-game vanish upon log-out.

 

 

You can though fly with a crew of people you know and trust and if the kid demands attention, no biggie, tell one of your buds you got to log-out, then log-out and let them continue with the ship towards delivering the cargo, or going back home.

 

 

This though, requires a "hard-spawn" to logout, meaning, there needs to be a bed system in the game, where you hard-spawn on a ship, so you won't be finding yourself relogging in empty space  In other words, better got a few beds on that ship :P

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Other (explain below):

 

TL:DR – Reasons I think the other ideas should be avoided (or implemented), and finally my idea for how log in and out should be handled (bottom).

 

Since the whole idea is a continuous single shard, I wonder what the purpose of removing your character magically from the universe would be. Especially when people are talking about making extremely long distance journeys. Having your character magically disappear can also lead to being easily abused. Sneak onto someone’s ship, log out before they take off, log in after some hours and kill everyone on the ship without anyone having known you were onboard. (similar to how people sneak into other people’s bases in multi-shard games).

 

The cryo/bed idea is nice, as it gives the requirement of players having to go to the appropriate item to put their character to bed. It makes the item a valuable commodity (necessary) and also would give a place for those “empty bodies” to be placed. This does of course give rise to many issues as it could not and should not be used like a resurrection node. It also makes it so new players can’t log out (assuming we have to construct all initial beds.) If this is implemented though, I hope that it would be more like Minecraft in the sense that the materials for it might be low for the first bed. To keep a sense of realism it should only be 1 person per bed unless the bed is specifically designed for 2. Also, have the option to craft better looking or difference versions of space cryo/beds. I would also prefer that the person in the bed is shown.

 

The “ragdoll out” method doesn’t make much sense to me as it has been stated, as then we would have corpses all over the place. Even if they disappear after a while, where would you log back into? Do you magically just pop back into existence where you logged out? At one of the previously mentioned cryo/bed items? At a resurrection node? Too many unanswered questions for me on this one to make it worthwhile. Unless I completely don’t understand what is meant by ragdoll.

 

My ideaI hope that no one else mentioned this, but here goes. I think our character, just like our ships and other creations should have persistence. You can log out anywhere you want, but your character will remain in the game. This would require you to ensure where you log out is relatively safe. Whether this be a base, or a ship. Thinking along the lines of pvp; if someone attacks and takes over your ship, chances are you’ll be going to resurrection node regardless of if your character is there or not. This method forces people to have to secure locations for themselves as well as their belongings. I makes it so people can’t just anger quit and magically avoid an attack. I makes it so when your control point is getting taken over, you can’t just log out in the control room to log in and initiate a recap to try and steal it back later. It forces you to take responsibility for your character and its life. Could people try to grief with this? Sure they could (thinking man in a box/hole), but if we have the option to kill self, then this eliminates the possibility of being griefed. Again, if they found you and your ship/base, you were probably already headed to a resurrection node anyways. So you lose nothing that you weren’t’ going to lose anyways. Gameplay aspects aside, it would make the universe seem that much more lived in. There are no (or at least possibly an extremely limited number of) NPCs in game. So basically, following some of the other ideas, it’s either going to be barren 1/2 the time or filled with corpses. Having other characters (even if no one is “driving” them) would add atmosphere, immersion, and liveliness to the game. Course, if they aren’t moving it will just look like a bunch of mannequins. At this point I’d like to add another idea I was thinking. Character scripts: since we can have various things working automated even when we are logged out (IE: machines running, automated flight, automated skill learning, etc.) Why can’t we have a basic (STRESSED BASIC) script / command for the character for when we are logged out? I mean for things such as, walking to a destination, being in a defensive position (try to protect yourself), working on a craft, maybe even mining. I can already hear the people screaming “NO!”, because this is basically “botting” and might lead to REAL botters. I counter – automated machine mining will FAR outpace anything a single character will do. Multiple characters won’t help you (and be less likely due to subscription model) as if you are found, people can just kill you. Nothing you could do with your single life being scripted would ever amount to something more than what your machines could do on their own.

 

I had more reasons and ideas, but I’ve already written a novel on this. Anyways, I think having your character stay just adds more to the game. Having your character do basic activities while you are gone, adds even more.

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Your idea is mostly just ragdolls / beds + character scripts. A ragdoll means just that. A limp bodied character rolling around on the floor. With both beds and ragdoll you have persistent constructs. With both beds and ragdoll, you have persistent characters. As far as scripted offline characters, I would say that the devs should put that at the bottom of the list. There's many features which should be developed first. If that can't be done, perhaps just some algorithm to make the character walk around randomly at the spot you logged off at.

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Other (explain below):

 

TL:DR – Reasons I think the other ideas should be avoided (or implemented), and finally my idea for how log in and out should be handled (bottom).

 

Since the whole idea is a continuous single shard, I wonder what the purpose of removing your character magically from the universe would be. Especially when people are talking about making extremely long distance journeys. Having your character magically disappear can also lead to being easily abused. Sneak onto someone’s ship, log out before they take off, log in after some hours and kill everyone on the ship without anyone having known you were onboard. (similar to how people sneak into other people’s bases in multi-shard games).

 

The cryo/bed idea is nice, as it gives the requirement of players having to go to the appropriate item to put their character to bed. It makes the item a valuable commodity (necessary) and also would give a place for those “empty bodies” to be placed. This does of course give rise to many issues as it could not and should not be used like a resurrection node. It also makes it so new players can’t log out (assuming we have to construct all initial beds.) If this is implemented though, I hope that it would be more like Minecraft in the sense that the materials for it might be low for the first bed. To keep a sense of realism it should only be 1 person per bed unless the bed is specifically designed for 2. Also, have the option to craft better looking or difference versions of space cryo/beds. I would also prefer that the person in the bed is shown.

 

The “ragdoll out” method doesn’t make much sense to me as it has been stated, as then we would have corpses all over the place. Even if they disappear after a while, where would you log back into? Do you magically just pop back into existence where you logged out? At one of the previously mentioned cryo/bed items? At a resurrection node? Too many unanswered questions for me on this one to make it worthwhile. Unless I completely don’t understand what is meant by ragdoll.

 

My ideaI hope that no one else mentioned this, but here goes. I think our character, just like our ships and other creations should have persistence. You can log out anywhere you want, but your character will remain in the game. This would require you to ensure where you log out is relatively safe. Whether this be a base, or a ship. Thinking along the lines of pvp; if someone attacks and takes over your ship, chances are you’ll be going to resurrection node regardless of if your character is there or not. This method forces people to have to secure locations for themselves as well as their belongings. I makes it so people can’t just anger quit and magically avoid an attack. I makes it so when your control point is getting taken over, you can’t just log out in the control room to log in and initiate a recap to try and steal it back later. It forces you to take responsibility for your character and its life. Could people try to grief with this? Sure they could (thinking man in a box/hole), but if we have the option to kill self, then this eliminates the possibility of being griefed. Again, if they found you and your ship/base, you were probably already headed to a resurrection node anyways. So you lose nothing that you weren’t’ going to lose anyways. Gameplay aspects aside, it would make the universe seem that much more lived in. There are no (or at least possibly an extremely limited number of) NPCs in game. So basically, following some of the other ideas, it’s either going to be barren 1/2 the time or filled with corpses. Having other characters (even if no one is “driving” them) would add atmosphere, immersion, and liveliness to the game. Course, if they aren’t moving it will just look like a bunch of mannequins. At this point I’d like to add another idea I was thinking. Character scripts: since we can have various things working automated even when we are logged out (IE: machines running, automated flight, automated skill learning, etc.) Why can’t we have a basic (STRESSED BASIC) script / command for the character for when we are logged out? I mean for things such as, walking to a destination, being in a defensive position (try to protect yourself), working on a craft, maybe even mining. I can already hear the people screaming “NO!”, because this is basically “botting” and might lead to REAL botters. I counter – automated machine mining will FAR outpace anything a single character will do. Multiple characters won’t help you (and be less likely due to subscription model) as if you are found, people can just kill you. Nothing you could do with your single life being scripted would ever amount to something more than what your machines could do on their own.

 

I had more reasons and ideas, but I’ve already written a novel on this. Anyways, I think having your character stay just adds more to the game. Having your character do basic activities while you are gone, adds even more.

 

Planets don't move in-game, so logging out on them wouldn't be an issue without a bed, not to mention the Arkship in the starting area can provide a bed for the new players. Those beds are not resurrection nodes, as I said, they operate only for al og-out countdown that ensures a hard-spawn, possibly, the bed itself having a capacity of one player, requiring a thing like bunk-beds for larger ships like battleships, so it wouldn't be exploited as a pokeball spitting out a platoon of players on the spot.

 

Scripted players are scripted bots, as you said. They won't be implemented, because real botters would be impossible to detect.

 

As I mentionde above, Ark Zones are the reason people will congregate in cities, for the safety zones they provide with Arkification towers.. If you want to be a hermit living in the middle of' nowhere, you better set up some defenses around the perimeter, or even better, make your house underground to avoid being spotted easily.

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This is my first comment so please be forgiving if it is not the most useful.

 

I believe that the game should have a logout mechanic involving a bed or cryopod chamber. Their should probably be a 15/30/60 minute reuse timer and I lean more toward it being 15 or 30 minutes.

If a player logs out just anywhere their body should be left in game indefinitely or until killed. If killed while away the player should not re-spawn until the player logs back on. The same if a player is just away from their keyboard for too long.

The ark ships should serve as a free unlimited logout item with no cool down.

If the player is logging out at an ark or a bed they should only have to be near it and should not necessarily be required to directly interact with it. In the case of the ark ship I think players should be able to perform the full logout from literally anywhere in the protection bubble and just log back in at the base of the ark ship.

It should be possible for players to charge a fee for the use of beds. This will create a wonderful business opportunity that the free market system will make pretty reasonable and cheap since no one is gonna pay an arm or a leg to logout. It should also be possible to set bed items to reserved so only a specific player or organization can use them.

This system will encourage players to build homes for themselves which everybody is going to do anyway just about. Players who prefer traveling in space can either put one on their ship and gamble on leaving their ship unprotected or go to some player made inn somewhere and rent a bed while docking their ship in a protected area.

I mostly just encourage this system because it is easy to use and understand, encourages inter-social behavior in players such as building communities and also creates a relatively fair system that respects both PvP players and more passive players like me.

 

It would also be really cool if new players had like a ten day loot protection grace period where if they died then nothing they had on them got lost or damaged giving players a chance to form or join some kind of protective community before being exposed to any of the harsher aspects.

 

If you see flaws in my system please point them out because I really want to help this game be as successful as possible.

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Nothing in DU is simple, lol, even something as basic as logging in/out becomes a multi-page discussion !

 

Leaving ragdolls in the world (like in ARK) is simply not practical in DU. Having 100 ragdolls on ARK's island is fine, having 10K+ ragdolls in DU is not going to be fine...

 

The most practical solution for DU is probably "ghosting" the player image and slowly fading it away. The ghost image would obviously have no collision detection, otherwise it could cause issues.

 

As for what happens when you log back in, that's probably material for several multi-page discussions... ;)

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i would vote for a mixed cryopod / "ragdoll" system.

 

i wouldn't do actual ragdoll bodies though. i would go with an emergency cocoon built into everyone's suits. so if you log out or disconnect, your character would go into the fetal position and the suit would deploy a cocoon around them. this would create a much more manageable "item" to handle. it would also remove the more costly ragdoll physics for more simple box physics.

 

the cocoon would have a light on it that would be green to show that a live player is inside. if the player/cocoon is killed, the light would turn red to indicate a corpse with inventory. i would also have the players corpse go into cocoon mode some time after death. once the cocoon shows a red light, anyone can loot the contents. if a red light cocoon is empty of any items then it would deconstruct away within a few minutes. if a red light cocoon is not reclaimed/looted it would deconstruct after a set time (a week or a month maybe). all players would be able to bring up their suit HUD to get way-point data for any of their red light cocoons, for the corpse run.

 

i would have the cocoons movable, in a way similar to how the player picks up and moves companion cubes in the game Portal. so it would be easy for anyone with access to a cocoon, to move it out of the way when needed, without having to kill the player. i would have players automatically exit any work station they may be engaged in before cocooning (except for single person cockpits of course ) so they don't block anything in large multi person ships or stations.

 

i would then have cryopods (and small ship cockpits) be the protected/buffed logout option (more armour/health, not immunity, and possible buffs for quality rest). they would also act as respawn points upon death (maybe a list of the nth closest cryopods the player has rights to access, or a last cryopod used mechanism).

 

to stop any abuse in the protected zone, while you could still pick up the cocoons and move them, you wouldn't be able to remove them from the protected zone. so someone may want to build a warehouse for the abandoned cocoons that may end up littering the protected zone.

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I doubt that the devs will use rag doll physics for the same reason they're not allowing wheels on constructs (collisions). So far I know that you parent to any surface you are standing on which will allow for a rust-like system.

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I personally kinda like WA's logout: instant vanish iirc (may be better with a cooldown, basically you stand still for e.g. 30s and you're not invincible but you can still cancel logout in this time) but your ship only disappears after 3min (so you don't just logout to escape an attack), and only if nobody's interacting (walking/climbing/grappling) with it.

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DU is a game where it's built upon the concept of a true persistant universe.

It would make little sense if that wasn't the case for player avatars.

In addition,players in suspended animation state open up multiple possibilties for dynamic gameplay scenarios.

Among others these may include assasination opportunities and heavily promote the need for security and teamplay outside the Ark zones .

In light of these positive developments,i'm personally completely in favor towards a logout mechanic implementation.

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imo if they're going to have a skill que system that gives you skills on a timer, they should do this:

Have cryopods with foggy glass so you can't tell if there's a player model inside or not (because there won't be, to go easy on the server). If you log off by getting into a cryopod, you're safe and your skill que continues to count down while you're offline.

If you log out or disconnect without using a cryopod, you'll remain in the game world for 15 minutes, and then disappear from the game world. Logging out like this will cause your skill que to training skills while you're offline.

This way players arn't brutally penalized, but are incentivized to use cryopods, creating an immersion friendly way of logging in and out.

Rules to still iron out:
-What happens if the cryopod you're in gets destroyed/removed while you're offline?
-What happens if you log out without using a cryopod, and someone builds on top of where you logged out?
-What happens if someone builds around your cryopod, and there's no room for your character to get out?

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I'd prefer the EVE system. If you're not aggressed, insta-byebye, if you are aggressed, some modest timer until you go poof. Anything beyond that gets casual unfriendly, and you want those people, since they're going to make the majority of the playerbase, which you obviously want to be and keep as large as possible for the game to survive longterm.

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oldish thread  - latest discussion fizzled out Nov 17.

I'd like to ask if there is any news on this issue. It's another one of these big headache issues of being various degrees of safe/powerless when you leave and rejoin rl.

My opinions:

If in a safe zone on foot, enable on-spot logout and disappear + reappear on logon at current ground height (or selectable) if terrain altered while away. Maybe some kind of drone video of location activated and allow a spawn point to be chosen.

If on pvp territory, have a quick 'dig-in' feature to bury yourself and maybe a vehicle in the existing terrain and then log off or go afk. It doesn't make you 100% safe, but goes a long way towards this. Also have a dig-out function or login similar to above.

If on a ship, then the ship may or may not have 'safer' cyros or 'hiding places' or 'escape pods' which may or may not be destroyed/salvageable if the rest of the ship is destroyed. Other than that, you move with your ship, including the ability to be transported by the 'night-shift' crew...

If in a single-seater ship, possibly have silent mode activation, but a risky option. Possibly autopilot option, but vulnerable...

 

Other than this, maybe you can be a 'guest' in territories, which if entered under guest status allows safe logout and protection of supplies unless the territory sustains massive damage by 3rd party attack or so.

 

I realise this is a complicated set of suggestions, but it is likely to be a big issue for many people in practice I feel, so various solutions should be on offer here.

 

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