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I have seen some talk lately of how exactly to make sure that there is consistent and balanced PvP within the Dual universe.

 

One suggestion I have is seen is "PvP battlegrounds" or pre-determined areas that will create balanced matches between factions. I am not a fan of this idea because I think there are better ways of achieving this.

 

One of the great things about this game that is that it has the potential to offer something for everyone. A large amount of those people will be looking to play this game for the PvP and will not want to spend all their time mining/designing/building guilds etc. Ideally, a player should be able to get in the game, buy a decent player-made ship, and head out to do some PvP without worrying about spending the entire day trying to find one.

 

I think "battlegrounds" should be determined by scarcity of valuable resources, not a preset, static area. 

 

If you have ever played Space Engineers you know that PvP is rare and frustrating in survival servers. Why?

 

1. There aren't enough players in a single server

2. It quickly becomes extremely hard to actually find other players

3. All the resources are fairly abundant, meaning there is no need to fight over them

4. "Territory" is non-existent, beyond setting up a beacon on antenna saying "this here is mine" your faction wont have territory

 

I believe that there are possible solutions to each of these problems:

 

1. As a single shard universe there will be as many players in the universe as are online which will (hopefully) be a lot!

 

2. Dual may need a galaxy map or some other system to show where the largest volume of players actually are. If you are a large organization of players you should not be able to hide it very well unless you are using stealth tech.

 

Once you get to a system or planet, you should be able to detect ships that are relatively close by and intercept them similar to Elite Dangerous. Whether you will be able to intercept them depends on the capabilities of your ship. This will allow for piracy, bounty hunting, and mercenary work.

 

3. While some materials, like the ones that allow you to create a functioning ship, should be fairly accessible all across the universe, others should be very scarce.

For example: the material used to refine fuel for FTL (assuming FTL is a thing), only exists in a handful of locations within a system.

These will be the strategic locations that eventually become battlegrounds for factions to struggle over. So if you want to participate in more cooperative PvP, you join a warring organization of your choice and head to one of these contested locations.

 

Will these locations always have balanced and fair fights? Of course not. It is the responsibility of factions as a whole to gain the unperhand strategically, not individual players.

 

4. Dual Universe already has a very solid territory system that makes it clear who owns land on planets. I don't know about Space/Asteroids ownership yet though.

 

Let me know what you guys think!

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Scare Recources should be a important part of early till mid game pvp, in late game territory/really advanced recources should be the main drivers

 

I personally think that recources for basic ships should be more or less "common" while advanced components (FTL drive/strong weapons/shields) should need really rare recources comming up only every few systems, the recources for Stargates should be so incredibly uncommon that wars will be fought over sources

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Scare Recources should be a important part of early till mid game pvp, in late game territory/really advanced recources should be the main drivers

 

I personally think that recources for basic ships should be more or less "common" while advanced components (FTL drive/strong weapons/shields) should need really rare recources comming up only every few systems, the recources for Stargates should be so incredibly uncommon that wars will be fought over sources

 

In addition to this, I think resources should not be spread in a homogeneous fashion. That way some organizations can corner the market on certain resources which will encourage trade and war.

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I also dislike the idea of pvp battlegrounds, "normal" pvp should be open world because of various interests.

BUT what i would like to see are playerdriven tournaments, giving out a fixed amount of modules and ressources with which players can create their vehicles and then let them fight against each other in tournament style. The participants would have to deliver a blueprint prior to the tournament and would get the vehicle for each round, keeping it completely fair to everyone.

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I also dislike the idea of pvp battlegrounds, "normal" pvp should be open world because of various interests.

BUT what i would like to see are playerdriven tournaments, giving out a fixed amount of modules and ressources with which players can create their vehicles and then let them fight against each other in tournament style. The participants would have to deliver a blueprint prior to the tournament and would get the vehicle for each round, keeping it completely fair to everyone.

 

Someone else had the idea on here that it was open world PvP, but t hat there could also be virtual or training PvP matches to hone your skills. I like that idea. I definitely want 99.9% to be PvP for the realism.

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I was thinking about this today, and thought it would be cool to have a bounty system in place, where if I come harass you, killing and destroying your stuff, you could put a bounty on me.  There would be PvP driven players that would love to hunt these players down and collect that bounty, just for the satisfaction of doing it.  The game could also include a finders fee, for other players to report where these targets are located.  

 

what would be cool is if enough bounties made you fair game to be attacked in a safe zone as well.  And also if there was a system to give titles, or other non monetary awards to good bounty hunters.

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Someone else had the idea on here that it was open world PvP, but t hat there could also be virtual or training PvP matches to hone your skills. I like that idea. I definitely want 99.9% to be PvP for the realism.

You can thank me for that idea ;)   To expand on what was just said I will add to it that this could make galactic E-Sports a thing WITHIN a game. Virtual reality can also serve the function of any other wacky mini game that just wouldn't make sense in the main universe. The game itself is one giant story that every player gets to take part in. The more it feels like a second life the better.

 

 

I was thinking about this today, and thought it would be cool to have a bounty system in place, where if I come harass you, killing and destroying your stuff, you could put a bounty on me.  There would be PvP driven players that would love to hunt these players down and collect that bounty, just for the satisfaction of doing it.  The game could also include a finders fee, for other players to report where these targets are located.  

 

what would be cool is if enough bounties made you fair game to be attacked in a safe zone as well.  And also if there was a system to give titles, or other non monetary awards to good bounty hunters.

I think bounty would make a great mechanic to counter people who like to be mean for no reason. 

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I agree with a bounty system, but open universe pvp? NO, sorry not into it, don't want bothered. Some people need to be miners and manufacturers or no one has anything to use. Make them a full time target and they simply will leave this game for another. Pvpers are ok people but they tend to want what they want, and not compromise on it. Safe zones around planets, and stations are definitely needed, and gilds that specialize in Pvp will pop up anyways, because some players cant play any other way. There has to be compromise, safe zones and Pvp universe wide, not all of anything.

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I agree with a bounty system, but open universe pvp? NO, sorry not into it, don't want bothered. Some people need to be miners and manufacturers or no one has anything to use. Make them a full time target and they simply will leave this game for another. Pvpers are ok people but they tend to want what they want, and not compromise on it. Safe zones around planets, and stations are definitely needed, and gilds that specialize in Pvp will pop up anyways, because some players cant play any other way. There has to be compromise, safe zones and Pvp universe wide, not all of anything.

Get your guild to set up defenses or set them up yourself. The whole world should be PvP, but if players want to make laws or set up defenses, that is fine.

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I agree with a bounty system, but open universe pvp? NO, sorry not into it, don't want bothered. Some people need to be miners and manufacturers or no one has anything to use. Make them a full time target and they simply will leave this game for another. Pvpers are ok people but they tend to want what they want, and not compromise on it. Safe zones around planets, and stations are definitely needed, and gilds that specialize in Pvp will pop up anyways, because some players cant play any other way. There has to be compromise, safe zones and Pvp universe wide, not all of anything.

Im pretty sure the devs have already decided to make this game open pvp. though this wasnt meant to be malice but for a more realistic game. but its in the interest of organizations to protect its miners and scientist and other non combat personal with people who do enjoy combat. id like to see this game not be filled with 24hr war and i dont think this will be the case because to fund that war would take massive resources and everytime you die you lose stuff from your inventory, so the soldiers wouldnt want to continue. the main worry would be pirates but i dont forsee there being large groups of a single pirate group so a military arm of a organization could take care of them or hire bodyguard firms or mercs

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I have plans to continue inviting members into cinderfall, and conducting both competetive pvp, and battlegrounds. These notions are seperate from the standard total war aspect that will exist throughout the game.

 

That is to say, Cinderfall being a permanent alliance structure. Its not an alliance you ad hoc make with another group. Its a group that is an alliance of groups.

The goal is to establish security ratings, akin to EVE's, throughout all the member nation states and organisations that join.

The process is decentralized so that member states get to make all the choices and retain their functionality as normal. Even making standard military alliances with other cinderfall members, or non cinderfall members.

The rule being that you wont attack other factional alliance members in cinderfall, we ask that those fights be dictated by a mediator / judge. Even if they decide to have two organisations or mini alliances declare outright total war on each other. Or if a guild of 15 players versus 1500 players, they might decide to make it a 15 v 15, or a 15, vrs 50, depending on what the mediator thinks is fair. Mediators being selected by a handful of Cinderfall reps.

We're still awaiting more information of the tags, and RDMS, it may be that we can automate the process to a degree.

 

It's fine if other "Faction" level organisations would like to use this method.

 

-----

Outside of the pvp battlegrounds thread, I read it but couldnt sum up a good response at the time.

I intend to have factional 'battlegrounds' which will just be minature wargames for members or players in good status reputation wise, to come and participate in combat, just for kicks, or perhaps in game gambling or whatnot. These are not to interfere with the games already existing war modes, just be a creative modification of existing systems.

 

The premise being, that you create to puppet guilds and have players join them as if they were teams. You take two territories on a planet and put a territory control unit for each puppet guild respectively, the TU will be neighboring each other.

 

You might have a pre-designed area, or allow each team to design their fortifictions within a time limit.

With a neutral guild not involved in the war, you create a spawn room on each side, and put a Resurrection node in it. I dont care if its on a hover-ship, a bunker, out in the open, whatever. With tags you assign each node to be associated with one or the other puppet guild.

 

After the TU are built, a level is designed, mostly moving dirt, maybe some buildings, and the resurrection nodes. You have a deathmatch scenario.

 

With three puppet guilds, you could make a king of the hill. Two warring factions trying to each claim a TU in a guild with no players.

 

There may be capture the flag mechanics provided by NQ, we have yet to see.

 

-----

 

Competetive ship based PvP is a thing I would like to happen in this game. It's just not going to be something NQ can or will support at least not in the beginning, they have too much other stuff to focus on.

 

So itll be up to us, to create rules and find places for these teams to compete unhindered by other players that might want to disrupt them for some reason.

 

The idea is to have various game modes. Fighter duels, 3v3 - 2 destroyer types and a cruiser, leaving the actual number of players on a team up to the teams, because some ships may need more crew than others. 

Or whatever other game modes we cook up together.

----

 

These goals are not intended to conflict with the aspects of the games brutal and hardcore, get raped war mechanics.

Rather, I've been toiling on Factions and Cinderfall as a way to slow down the pillaging on members, Battlegrounds as fun mini wargames for times when there arent enough real wars going on or you just want to shoot bullets at people for 20 minutes and log off.

and Competetive pvp for players that would like somewhat balanced, build your ships and wreck em.

 

As far as bringing people together with game mechanics, resources themselves by default wont be all that scarce, no. But people will be hoarding resources in their space stations, and other constructs. Stargates will be pretty valuable, and resurrection nodes. So going and murdering neighbors for their stuff will be fun and rewarding in and of itself.

 

Still waiting from NQ on info about how money will be generated, mission terminals, or etc. That will definately play a major role in how PvP plays out. is it going to be over money? resources on the land? maybe theres a prestige factor for taking enemy turf. Need more info!

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Well I am one of the few then that opposes PVP period, I had my taste of that wioth EVE Online, if I want PVP I will go EVE, I mhope this game is not and open world PVP, this will destroy the game.

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I don't think totally free PvP is a good thing but I do think for the most part the majority of the server should be open PvP with a automatic bounty system or something similar in place for the starting system or at least a good amount of space around the starting world after some time has passed and a few waves of players have left the planet. this would be around each Arkship that pops up eventually but should only strongly discourage PvP in areas that are not safezones, not stop. new players that are still decently close (under x amount of hours and still in the main system) could also be protected by this system but after time runs out it no longer applies. There are many other ways it could be changed but most I could think of would be exploitable so maybe others could think of better ones

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You can thank me for that idea ;)   To expand on what was just said I will add to it that this could make galactic E-Sports a thing WITHIN a game. Virtual reality can also serve the function of any other wacky mini game that just wouldn't make sense in the main universe. The game itself is one giant story that every player gets to take part in. The more it feels like a second life the better.

 

 

I think bounty would make a great mechanic to counter people who like to be mean for no reason. 

Then, people who want to mine could have hire factions to protect them, of course for a price.

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Read some comments and get feeling like you guys think there would be millions of players online. Many good F2P games have few thousands players online.

Games with building/crafting not so popular. Be ready to face low population space (even do not take huge size (or even unlimited) of universe). Open world PvP will be so rare, I'm pretty sure about that. Do not mix "Pirating" and "Honour PvP", first is shame.

 

PvP (especially as some said e-Sport) must be fair and easy to access. It is not mean to cancel "Open World PvP", it simply must not be priority. Battlegrounds - that is option for normal PvP.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

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Why does nobody like my playstyle :(

 

Open World PVP is necessary for a Space MMO,

tell me what is the first thing you think of when you hear Sci-FI or Space? Usually its Star Wars or Star Trek

And of what do you think then? The freaking awesome space battles. Sci-Fi games and combat are deeply connected and leaving open PVP out would do more harm than good (for the game)

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Why does nobody like my playstyle :(

 

Open World PVP is necessary for a Space MMO,

tell me what is the first thing you think of when you hear Sci-FI or Space? Usually its Star Wars or Star Trek

And of what do you think then? The freaking awesome space battles. Sci-Fi games and combat are deeply connected and leaving open PVP out would do more harm than good (for the game)

Many like that, but this could be very rare. When you understand massive range of universe (which is unlimited), you start understand, that find somebody who can fight back could be very hard. This could become very boring for many players. Not many players will explore space for hours to find honourable enemy.

 

Battlegrounds do not disable World PvP. Developers always can balance between world and subworlds. Like requirement to harvest resources, travel to another system/planet, special tasks and other.

 

This is question not of "What is more realistic", that is question, how to make game more popular and not boring, how to save players in game (especially with P2P model). My words based on "Space Engineers" game experience. Yes, there are not thousands players online, but there are limited worlds. And it is cool to play game while you building, as soon you finish your build project, interest to game falling down very quickly.

 

Some players said, go and ask others to make PvP, that is no option. Majority will never do that, if game do not allow that automatically.

 

Update: Also, is very important, battleground will reduce pressure on main game servers. So battleground will be separated from all the world (as servers), so massive performance requirements won't hurt everyone. As example, I remember World of Warcraft, when Lich King update was released. Game was almost unplayable, when there was battle for lake (don't remember title).

 

Thanks,

Archonious

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Why does nobody like my playstyle :(

 

Open World PVP is necessary for a Space MMO,

tell me what is the first thing you think of when you hear Sci-FI or Space? Usually its Star Wars or Star Trek

And of what do you think then? The freaking awesome space battles. Sci-Fi games and combat are deeply connected and leaving open PVP out would do more harm than good (for the game)

 

Information disclosed by developers of EvE online which is one of the most hardcore PvP games, with full destruction/loot upon kill and possibility of PvP all over the universe (including high security sectors, just with harsher consequences for attacker) showed that only 13,8 % of players (bit more,  than one in each ten) are involved in PvP during their ordinary game session (you can see the report http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/activity.16.png ) All other players do trade, PvE missions, exploration and so on, sometimes unintentionally getting caught by PvP as they are jumped by pirates. So we can assume that those who intentionally go for PvP are even less than 10 %. And you want to have even more PvP oriented game? Then it will be just pure shooter without any economy and any production/construction at all as noone will waste their time on other things if they’ll be jumped over from each corner and won’t have any security anywhere. And yes, player base will be limited to those 10-14 % who are interested in PvP – the rest will go for other games where they can do other things too.

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limited to those 10-14 % who are interested in PvP – the rest will go for other games where they can do other things too.

AH yes i forgot that EVE has only 1000 players... DU will have economy and eveyrthing you mentioned... WITH PVP stop saying that its unnecessary and shouldnt be in the game (not talking to you @Kirtis)

And i NEVER mentioned only PVP, ffs READ dont assume. I said that disabling PVP would limit the playerbase because PVP is ESSENTIAL for this kind of game

 

*at this point i wrote a essay explaining why but it got to long so i deleted it*

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AH yes i forgot that EVE has only 1000 players... DU will have economy and eveyrthing you mentioned... WITH PVP stop saying that its unnecessary and shouldnt be in the game (not talking to you @Kirtis)

And i NEVER mentioned only PVP, ffs READ dont assume. I said that disabling PVP would limit the playerbase because PVP is ESSENTIAL for this kind of game

 

*at this point i wrote a essay explaining why but it got to long so i deleted it*

 

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

 

 

I suggest you take a look at this link, then perhaps gather your data before making trash posts in the future.

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http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

 

 

I suggest you take a look at this link, then perhaps gather your data before making trash posts in the future.

I made a sarcastic remark regarding his answer, could you please explain why my post is trash?

Yes it wasnt a good one (by far) but i was/am tired and annoyed and people assuming something out of vague posts arent helping

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I made a sarcastic remark regarding his answer, could you please explain why my post is trash?

Yes it wasnt a good one (by far) but i was/am tired and annoyed and people assuming something out of vague posts arent helping

 

Well frankly that isn't mine or anyone else's problem. If your post was out of jest, I apologize, but make it clear in the future. 

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Information disclosed by developers of EvE online which is one of the most hardcore PvP games, with full destruction/loot upon kill and possibility of PvP all over the universe (including high security sectors, just with harsher consequences for attacker) showed that only 13,8 % of players (bit more,  than one in each ten) are involved in PvP during their ordinary game session (you can see the report http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/activity.16.png ) All other players do trade, PvE missions, exploration and so on, sometimes unintentionally getting caught by PvP as they are jumped by pirates. So we can assume that those who intentionally go for PvP are even less than 10 %. And you want to have even more PvP oriented game? Then it will be just pure shooter without any economy and any production/construction at all as noone will waste their time on other things if they’ll be jumped over from each corner and won’t have any security anywhere. And yes, player base will be limited to those 10-14 % who are interested in PvP – the rest will go for other games where they can do other things too.

It seems to me that this is an argument for open world PvP, not against it.

 

As an aside I think PvP is not really the right phrase here because everything in DU will be PvP - open market trading, designing and building, exploring, even mining - in every one of these activities you are competing against others to get/have/do better in your field in order to be recognised or viable. This thread is clearly about combat and fighting but I think it is important to establish that it is an open world PvP game in every sense.

 

Dual Universe is intended to work on a cycle of creation and destruction. Environment -> Resources -> Materials -> Equipment -> Destruction/Loot. Without the destruction phase there is no need for the resources. However it is only one stage of many and it is heavily dependent on the other stages! Combat oriented players are dependent on the builders for equipment just as miners, builders, etc are dependent on friendly combatants for protection against enemy combatants. 10-15% of players being combat oriented sounds reasonable to me.

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...everything in DU will be PvP - open market trading, designing and building, exploring, even mining - in every one of these activities you are competing against others to get/have/do better in your field in order to be recognised or viable...

And face other players (enemies) once a day =))) Game with that scenario will become boring in few weeks (maybe month, if well deep designed). Don't dream to have huge community, crafting/building games not very popular.

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Sure it might stink for people that don't want to fight at first, but isn't the whole point of a game like this that the players come up with solutions to problems, not artificial rules?

 

If there were a bunch of organizations and governing bodies competing for resources and territory in space there would be fights and the fights wouldn't be limited to some special grid in space where fights are allowed to happen. If I want to play a space pirate robbing the poor unsuspecting miner who doesn't have any defenses I should be able to. Playing a space pirate is no better or worse than a miner. Next time the miner goes out he'll put more consideration into his safety. If you didn't put thought into who has access to your most vital secrets and resources and I infiltrate your organization, I should be able to bring the whole thing down. That's just the way it goes.

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