Encouraging PvP

[Cybrex]

Sure it might stink for people that don't want to fight at first, but isn't the whole point of a game like this that the players come up with solutions to problems, not artificial rules?

 

If there were a bunch of organizations and governing bodies competing for resources and territory in space there would be fights and the fights wouldn't be limited to some special grid in space where fights are allowed to happen. If I want to play a space pirate robbing the poor unsuspecting miner who doesn't have any defenses I should be able to. Playing a space pirate is no better or worse than a miner. Next time the miner goes out he'll put more consideration into his safety. If you didn't put thought into who has access to your most vital secrets and resources and I infiltrate your organization, I should be able to bring the whole thing down. That's just the way it goes.

 

Man after my own heart.

 

If you want a big driver for conflict between players, then you need only create zones of rare resources (and limited). Limitation can either be how many are spawned in the universe, or how much can be harvested before it dries out. This then forces players to fight one another for control over said resource if either wants to progress forward in their expansion, technology or what have you.

[caravaggio2000]

Man after my own heart.

 

If you want a big driver for conflict between players, then you need only create zones of rare resources (and limited). Limitation can either be how many are spawned in the universe, or how much can be harvested before it dries out. This then forces players to fight one another for control over said resource if either wants to progress forward in their expansion, technology or what have you.

 

Absolutely! I made a post in one of these threads about just that. Resources should NOT be spread out evenly, especially the rare/important ones. That will make players have to trade and/or war over resources, just like the real world.

[krm398]

hahaha, so after reading commenting and reading some more the discussion basically says: Kill them all! Let the archaeologists sort them out!  lol

[Goemoe]

Dual Universe is intended to work on a cycle of creation and destruction. Environment -> Resources -> Materials -> Equipment -> Destruction/Loot. Without the destruction phase there is no need for the resources. However it is only one stage of many and it is heavily dependent on the other stages! Combat oriented players are dependent on the builders for equipment just as miners, builders, etc are dependent on friendly combatants for protection against enemy combatants. 10-15% of players being combat oriented sounds reasonable to me.

So it is intended to work similar to EvE, which will not work, because it has different rules. First: EvE has savezones for every type of playing, where soloplayers can dwell, grow, contribute to the game. With all open with the exception of the arkships area and some randoms spots, which have been somewhat arkified, soloplayer won't be able to do much more than build a small ship. I doubt, they will ever leave a system on their own in that setting.

 

You might say: hey, but this is cool, its a PvP game. Well might be the case, but this will drive loads of potential players away. There are many MMO gamers out there who like to play on their own on a evening or two, then again joining their guild. This works well in nearly every MMO, it won't work here. What good is a space sim, when this sim does not offer you to leave you startsystem?

 

The next point is: everything is made of voxels and the human being is very destructive in nature. No guild of a reasonable size will be able to protect their stuff. I sincerly doubt there will be such things like cities of outposts in space without arkification. In EvE even this high security areas have seen raids, killing each and everyone though this was rare and expensive. In DU this is quite simple. Big guild -> many or big ships -> big destruction. You are not online, protecting? Great. I can't believe in any real buildings and greater structures with human players in a game where everyone is able to attack everything an any time. And they will...

 

Do your unlimited open PvP in space, but don't be sorry, if this game will never grow to a notable success. There have to be limits, or most people without big guilds behind them will leave within months. Might be wanted by the devs, to only get the hardcore PvP audience, who knows

[caravaggio2000]

So it is intended to work similar to EvE, which will not work, because it has different rules. First: EvE has savezones for every type of playing, where soloplayers can dwell, grow, contribute to the game. With all open with the exception of the arkships area and some randoms spots, which have been somewhat arkified, soloplayer won't be able to do much more than build a small ship. I doubt, they will ever leave a system on their own in that setting.

 

You might say: hey, but this is cool, its a PvP game. Well might be the case, but this will drive loads of potential players away. There are many MMO gamers out there who like to play on their own on a evening or two, then again joining their guild. This works well in nearly every MMO, it won't work here. What good is a space sim, when this sim does not offer you to leave you startsystem?

 

The next point is: everything is made of voxels and the human being is very destructive in nature. No guild of a reasonable size will be able to protect their stuff. I sincerly doubt there will be such things like cities of outposts in space without arkification. In EvE even this high security areas have seen raids, killing each and everyone though this was rare and expensive. In DU this is quite simple. Big guild -> many or big ships -> big destruction. You are not online, protecting? Great. I can't believe in any real buildings and greater structures with human players in a game where everyone is able to attack everything an any time. And they will...

 

Do your unlimited open PvP in space, but don't be sorry, if this game will never grow to a notable success. There have to be limits, or most people without big guilds behind them will leave within months. Might be wanted by the devs, to only get the hardcore PvP audience, who knows

 

I agree with you that a lot of games that have tried to have open world PvP have had difficulty with the things you mentioned, but I don't think it is impossible. At some point I'm sure someone said MMOs would never work, but then someone made a game where they did. To me, if you are worried about that, you should focus your attention on how it could be made to work.

 

In the real world the struggle has bred innovation. If the game is made well, it will be the same there.

 

Han Solo was always harassed by the big guild (Empire) with their countless ships. What did he do? He built a faster ship.

 

Edison invented the light bulb and people could see and work at night.

 

When countries were attacked, they built more defenses, made agreements with other countries for mutual protection, or they vanished.

 

My take after reading up on the game is that is exactly what the game is supposed to be about; struggling to survive and inventing new ways to make it easier. Someone in the game is going to get sick of getting their ass handed to them when they are out mining for the super special resource and invent something to protect themselves or make some agreement with others to mine together.

 

I hope someone does make a huge guild that goes around ripping everyone else to shreds in the beginning, me included. Why? So I can get together with a bunch of other players and smaller guilds to take them down. Maybe it doesn't even have to be via armies and navies. Maybe we just out think them and hack their security systems making all their ships go haywire. Maybe we put all our energy into taking the planets that make the key resource their ships need to fly and force them to the table. Who knows? It would be fun to try win, lose, or draw.

 

Personally, I want to go out to the edge of the universe at create a race of robots which will one day, when everyone is least expecting it, fly in and rain asteroids down on everything you and everyone else has built. That's good fun. Sure, you'd be pretty pissed that day, but think of all the countless hours of fun you'd have plotting your revenge against me.

 

Maybe you don't like the idea of anything you've made having a chance of being screwed up by someone else in a game. Maybe you don't want to worry that you might have to make something, or buy something, or make an agreement with someone to get protection. There are thousands of games out there like that. If you want to play this game though, I say help figure out how to make a 99.9% open world pvp game work for people like yourself that don't always love pvp.

[MaximusNerdius]

And face other players (enemies) once a day =))) Game with that scenario will become boring in few weeks (maybe month, if well deep designed). Don't dream to have huge community, crafting/building games not very popular.

 

Minecraft disagrees. Crafting / building games are absolutely popular and one of the largest genres in recent years.

[MaximusNerdius]

To me, a bigger issue than whether the game is open world PvP or not, is what methods will exist to allow PvPers to continually exist. How will PvPers survive after their ship gets blown up and they have to respawn? What is their way of earning money? I'm hoping that has been considered. I know there are PvPers that refuse to do things like mine/build, so how will they earn enough to replace losses?

 

My hope is that instead of there being some artificial way that generates income for PvPers, they actually have to work at it. I don't mean that as having to do menial tasks, but instead of there being random roving gankers that blow you up just for the fun of it, the systems in place should provide a motivation for PvPers. Want to play a pirate that roams the galaxy looking for ripe targets? Great! But instead of blowing up ships randomly, you need to think about what targets you go after.. and then after you take them down, salvage the wreck to provide resources for you to build more ships or to sell so you can purchase ships. Don't want to be a pirate, but love PvP? Join a group, whether military or otherwise, that provides protection to non-combatants, or defends their territory from interlopers.

 

My overall point is the random attacks for no reason, like you see in games like GTA V, should be discouraged in some way. The best way I can think of is to provide no reward to those who perform such acts.

 

And before I get jumped on for this - I am a long-time PvPer and I very much enjoy PvP, but if I want pointless shootem ups, I'll go play CoD, BF, DayZ or GTA. I just much prefer for there to be purpose behind fighting, instead of general mayhem. Just my 2c, though.

[The_War_Doctor]

To me, a bigger issue than whether the game is open world PvP or not, is what methods will exist to allow PvPers to continually exist. How will PvPers survive after their ship gets blown up and they have to respawn? What is their way of earning money? I'm hoping that has been considered. I know there are PvPers that refuse to do things like mine/build, so how will they earn enough to replace losses?

 

My hope is that instead of there being some artificial way that generates income for PvPers, they actually have to work at it. I don't mean that as having to do menial tasks, but instead of there being random roving gankers that blow you up just for the fun of it, the systems in place should provide a motivation for PvPers. Want to play a pirate that roams the galaxy looking for ripe targets? Great! But instead of blowing up ships randomly, you need to think about what targets you go after.. and then after you take them down, salvage the wreck to provide resources for you to build more ships or to sell so you can purchase ships. Don't want to be a pirate, but love PvP? Join a group, whether military or otherwise, that provides protection to non-combatants, or defends their territory from interlopers.

 

My overall point is the random attacks for no reason, like you see in games like GTA V, should be discouraged in some way. The best way I can think of is to provide no reward to those who perform such acts.

 

And before I get jumped on for this - I am a long-time PvPer and I very much enjoy PvP, but if I want pointless shootem ups, I'll go play CoD, BF, DayZ or GTA. I just much prefer for there to be purpose behind fighting, instead of general mayhem. Just my 2c, though.

my assumption is if you are not someone who is going to go mine or trade then you need to be apart of an organization that will provide you with a ship or the material to build a ship. and I would HOPE that these organizations would be less likely to keep handing out materials or ships if the pvp is just randomly attacking and dying and not aiding the organization

[Shadow_1]

Honestly, I feel like players and factions would be able to create fairly safe zones with defenses such as AA guns. Most players aren't stupid enough to engage and/or chase another player into an area where AAs will tear them apart if if they open fire. Additionally I do agree that PvP, although sometimes agravating, is a fundamental piece in a space mmo. Just like Ironfist stated in his comments.

[ODINxKANE]

I was thinking about this today, and thought it would be cool to have a bounty system in place, where if I come harass you, killing and destroying your stuff, you could put a bounty on me.  There would be PvP driven players that would love to hunt these players down and collect that bounty, just for the satisfaction of doing it.  The game could also include a finders fee, for other players to report where these targets are located.  

 

what would be cool is if enough bounties made you fair game to be attacked in a safe zone as well.  And also if there was a system to give titles, or other non monetary awards to good bounty hunters.

I really like this, the only issue i can see is if you are a newer player and dont have much money to put on a pirates head....

maybe at that point you can have somesort of a system to add your little portion onto an already existing bounty.

 

 

 

 

as far as the rest of the posts where people dispute wether or not PVP is allowed or should or shouldnt be allowed. I dont think that you can have a game like this and not have PVP Howeverthat doesnt mean that the PVE people should be neglected. Maybe there is a way to incoporate both. If you are a PVE person and you want to play without the chance of becoming a target for someone id say tough luck, but what you could do is remove yourself from areas where pvp is likely. set up with other like minded people to build and operate an area with a high defensive capability. or maybe join a group of players that offers a pvp security branch of the corporation or guild. my point is if you are looking for limiting your pvp exposure it shouldnt be too aweful difficult to do. I would say that the area imediatly surrounding the start point should be a weapons dissabled area so that griefers cant camp in orbit and pick off newbs at will.