Pleione Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Multiple reports of over a 1000 scans being needed to find T2+... Safe zone Roids being mobbed by 26+ ships with 75 minutes left before being "Discovered" (during the weekday, weekends must be worse) High risk of being ganked if you try an mine other Roids with just a couple of people and no PVP protection pilots. Shields that don't protect you, just reduce the damage taken (? based on description ? Rather unclear about that) Mass based speed limits that guarantee a ganker can close on a loaded hauler. Seems like we are forced to have someone man guns to fend off lone raiders, and hope that we can sting raiding packs before they inevitably kill us. Wondering if there is a Universe Patrol org that focuses on hunting down raiders and killing them, repeatedly??? If so, what do their ships look like? e.g. Is there a difference between a ganker ship and a anti-ganker ship? and who is going to be left to build ship parts for the PVPers after they force us from the game for not being like them? Zireaa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndle Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 There are certainly PvP groups that would consider being mercs pilots for hire to increase their odds of seeing combat without resorting to piracy, but the cost of PvP is too high to expect any altruism to be sustainable long enough for anyone to become familiar with such a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Cain Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Frankly i make a hole lot of stuff but i am not setting it on the market as i just dont want to feed PvP players since they are the only group NQ seems to listen too, probably because social media.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight-Sevy Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 19 hours ago, Pleione said: Multiple reports of over a 1000 scans being needed to find T2+... Safe zone Roids being mobbed by 26+ ships with 75 minutes left before being "Discovered" (during the weekday, weekends must be worse) High risk of being ganked if you try an mine other Roids with just a couple of people and no PVP protection pilots. Shields that don't protect you, just reduce the damage taken (? based on description ? Rather unclear about that) Mass based speed limits that guarantee a ganker can close on a loaded hauler. Seems like we are forced to have someone man guns to fend off lone raiders, and hope that we can sting raiding packs before they inevitably kill us. Wondering if there is a Universe Patrol org that focuses on hunting down raiders and killing them, repeatedly??? If so, what do their ships look like? e.g. Is there a difference between a ganker ship and a anti-ganker ship? and who is going to be left to build ship parts for the PVPers after they force us from the game for not being like them? Let me answer you again ^^ Multiple reports of over a 1000 scans being needed to find T2+... - When the game was launched, I scanned several planets. I did about 50 scans on each (about 4h of scans). I stop after finding 3 flowers of T2 and 2 flowers of T3. There is a technique to learn to scan effectively. => Now it's easier: go next to a player's flower and scan next to it: you will find T2. Safe zone Roids being mobbed by 26+ ships with 75 minutes left before being "Discovered" (during the weekday, weekends must be worse) - They are safe zone asteroids: low risk = low reward High risk of being ganked if you try an mine other Roids with just a couple of people and no PVP protection pilots. - It's an MMO, with 2 or 3 players you can effectively defend yourself against a single pirate. Of course bad luck if you're on the same asteroids as an entire organization. But this scenario is very rare. The pirates are often all alone and in rare cases with 2. More people makes the hunt not profitable at all. Shields that don't protect you, just reduce the damage taken (? based on description ? Rather unclear about that) - Shields don't make you immortal. They can take a certain amount of damage and then deactivate. M shields have 5M HP, L shields 10M. You must also be present to correctly set the resistances according to the weapons that your opponent uses on you. To be invulnerable you would need to land a station and use a station shield. But be careful, enemies can come and besiege your construct and this will create a window of vulnerability. Mass based speed limits that guarantee a ganker can close on a loaded hauler. - You need a mining ship and an escort. Or distribute the mining over several ships. Seems like we are forced to have someone man guns to fend off lone raiders, and hope that we can sting raiding packs before they inevitably kill us. - Arming yourself is indeed the best defense against a lone raider. Go out with your friends and with multiple ships, someone keeps an eye on the radar. If a threat arrives that you cannot fight: separate. They can't kill everyone. Wondering if there is a Universe Patrol org that focuses on hunting down raiders and killing them, repeatedly??? - These people need to be funded by PvE players if they want to be protected. Legion (full PvP aliancy) was created because the totally PvE organizations of the old Ascendancy alliance did not wish to participate in the financing of the protection of their armed forces. If so, what do their ships look like? e.g. Is there a difference between a ganker ship and a anti-ganker ship? - PvP ships are almost all alike. You can come to the "SNS main Base" to see what a fleet looks like. Quickly: 6 S cannons, 4 L freight engines and the rest of the basic elements of a ship. Oh also we sell PvP Meta ship BPs in our showroom; VR: " SNS Showroom Public DSAT " https://du-creators.org/makers/SNS Sentinels/ship/Sabre and who is going to be left to build ship parts for the PVPers after they force us from the game for not being like them? - As a PvP group we have +500 mining units and we regularly farm on PvP asteroids. We have a very large industry from T1 to T4 which covers all of our needs. Large stocks of combat-ready ships, resources, ammunition and fuel. Even if we completely stopped mining and crafting, we would continue to be a threat in the PvP space for many months. The remaining PvP players will play against other PvP players who enjoy playing the game using all of the gameplay mechanics available to us. Have a nice day Aaron Cain, Devian and Frank2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindingBright Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 16 hours ago, Wyndle said: There are certainly PvP groups that would consider being mercs pilots for hire to increase their odds of seeing combat without resorting to piracy, but the cost of PvP is too high to expect any altruism to be sustainable long enough for anyone to become familiar with such a group. Yeah the game has minimal reason/forces that make it profitable to be a "good guy" in pvp. Part of my frustration is you have much more opportunity in game play as a pirate and to make it profitable vs playing pretend space cop. So its turned into alliance vs alliance, group vs group. I've seen orgs I never thought would pirate(like infinity corp) but as it stands it's the only viable option IMHO if you want to pvp. Almost every org has taken a shoot first ask questions later because the game doesn't offer a better way to identify, hail, and communicate with another ship. And with the changes to speed its like shooting fish in a barrel with haulers being bigger, and slower... and the meta being S core combat ships to get that speed advantage a hauler will NEVER be able to overcome when you can rig Lua to intercept a craft. Pirate: hunts fish in barrel, might get in a fight with another pirate that may cause ship loss. Higher chance of escape in a pirate v pirate battle, as both ships will probably be S cores and there is a chance to out maneuver and get break off an engagement. Police: constantly engaging with pirates in a game with long travel times and nearly impossible to respond to a conflict on a roid. Resource spend and time sink to locate pirates, and then much higher risk taking down their ship vs a hauler. I tried being a non pirate pvper in this game, bit it was lame and frustrating... and only did it because of excess resources to burn. Now in release resources are even more scarce, not worth the effort now, and it wasn't before. Knight-Sevy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daphne Jones Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 I'm intentionally avoiding any need for anything above T1 ore so I can still have fun flying around when we reach the point that all money making activities require PVP. No thanks. PVP has to be more fun and much lower risk before I'll go back to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pleione Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 11 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said: Let me answer you again ^^ Multiple reports of over a 1000 scans being needed to find T2+... - When the game was launched, I scanned several planets. I did about 50 scans on each (about 4h of scans). I stop after finding 3 flowers of T2 and 2 flowers of T3. There is a technique to learn to scan effectively. => Now it's easier: go next to a player's flower and scan next to it: you will find T2. Safe zone Roids being mobbed by 26+ ships with 75 minutes left before being "Discovered" (during the weekday, weekends must be worse) - They are safe zone asteroids: low risk = low reward High risk of being ganked if you try an mine other Roids with just a couple of people and no PVP protection pilots. - It's an MMO, with 2 or 3 players you can effectively defend yourself against a single pirate. Of course bad luck if you're on the same asteroids as an entire organization. But this scenario is very rare. The pirates are often all alone and in rare cases with 2. More people makes the hunt not profitable at all. Shields that don't protect you, just reduce the damage taken (? based on description ? Rather unclear about that) - Shields don't make you immortal. They can take a certain amount of damage and then deactivate. M shields have 5M HP, L shields 10M. You must also be present to correctly set the resistances according to the weapons that your opponent uses on you. To be invulnerable you would need to land a station and use a station shield. But be careful, enemies can come and besiege your construct and this will create a window of vulnerability. Mass based speed limits that guarantee a ganker can close on a loaded hauler. - You need a mining ship and an escort. Or distribute the mining over several ships. Seems like we are forced to have someone man guns to fend off lone raiders, and hope that we can sting raiding packs before they inevitably kill us. - Arming yourself is indeed the best defense against a lone raider. Go out with your friends and with multiple ships, someone keeps an eye on the radar. If a threat arrives that you cannot fight: separate. They can't kill everyone. Wondering if there is a Universe Patrol org that focuses on hunting down raiders and killing them, repeatedly??? - These people need to be funded by PvE players if they want to be protected. Legion (full PvP aliancy) was created because the totally PvE organizations of the old Ascendancy alliance did not wish to participate in the financing of the protection of their armed forces. If so, what do their ships look like? e.g. Is there a difference between a ganker ship and a anti-ganker ship? - PvP ships are almost all alike. You can come to the "SNS main Base" to see what a fleet looks like. Quickly: 6 S cannons, 4 L freight engines and the rest of the basic elements of a ship. Oh also we sell PvP Meta ship BPs in our showroom; VR: " SNS Showroom Public DSAT " https://du-creators.org/makers/SNS Sentinels/ship/Sabre and who is going to be left to build ship parts for the PVPers after they force us from the game for not being like them? - As a PvP group we have +500 mining units and we regularly farm on PvP asteroids. We have a very large industry from T1 to T4 which covers all of our needs. Large stocks of combat-ready ships, resources, ammunition and fuel. Even if we completely stopped mining and crafting, we would continue to be a threat in the PvP space for many months. The remaining PvP players will play against other PvP players who enjoy playing the game using all of the gameplay mechanics available to us. Have a nice day Thank you for the detailed response. Per the above, I come away with the feeling that I either have to join a PVP org, or not play. I don't agree that being an MMO means I have to play with others. I can interact with others via marketplaces, dispensaries, etc. and still have a fulfilling MMO experience in many games, just not DU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight-Sevy Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 I think that if you want to go and do activities in a PvP zone, then yes you will have to learn how to defend yourself there. With an organization learning will certainly be easier and faster. But nothing forces you to join body and soul in a group of players. There are a lot of people a little solo or only with 1 or 2 friends on the game. You will inevitably find other players that you will have met on the discord, forum or PvE activity in game and with whom you will have affinities. That's when I think you have to see if you can't get together for an evening. Everyone brings their own equipment. If you really don't think you can participate in PvP activities, well, nothing forces you to. You can trade to buy the upper tiers. Obtain quantas by doing PvE activities and ores with your mining Units or surface harvesting. Being part of a PvP group we get 90% of our resources through our PvE activities. This allows us to fight and possibly chain major defeats several times and never find ourselves blocked because for some reason we would no longer have access to the PvP zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pleione Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 52 minutes ago, Daphne Jones said: I'm intentionally avoiding any need for anything above T1 ore so I can still have fun flying around when we reach the point that all money making activities require PVP. No thanks. PVP has to be more fun and much lower risk before I'll go back to it. Similar except I hit my limit fairly quickly... needed T2 for space fuel, found a few tiles of that, and build my industries up through all uncommon things I was interested in. But if you want to use a T3 mining unit, you either need to buy it, or buy the T3 to make it. We (joined a like minded org by then) opted to buy the T3. We can still go that way, but... we... really... enjoy the old style mining. We miss it. But getting ganked for that pleasure is not worth it meaning that aspect of the game is closed off to us. I do have one simple suggestion: Remove the "Discovered" aspect to asteroid hunting. Territories don't go on a Discovered list 2 hours after somebody scans them (although in a cooperative world they would be - instead people have to waste time scanning territories that others likely already have), why should asteroids? Only reason I can think of is to make it easy for PVPers to gank miners. PVPers should have to track down Rumored asteroids just like miners do... that would reduce the risk considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devian Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 13 hours ago, Aaron Cain said: Frankly i make a hole lot of stuff but i am not setting it on the market as i just dont want to feed PvP players since they are the only group NQ seems to listen too, probably because social media.. PVP Community is the last listened too lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlybits Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Pleione said: Similar except I hit my limit fairly quickly... needed T2 for space fuel, found a few tiles of that, and build my industries up through all uncommon things I was interested in. But if you want to use a T3 mining unit, you either need to buy it, or buy the T3 to make it. We (joined a like minded org by then) opted to buy the T3. We can still go that way, but... we... really... enjoy the old style mining. We miss it. But getting ganked for that pleasure is not worth it meaning that aspect of the game is closed off to us. I do have one simple suggestion: Remove the "Discovered" aspect to asteroid hunting. Territories don't go on a Discovered list 2 hours after somebody scans them (although in a cooperative world they would be - instead people have to waste time scanning territories that others likely already have), why should asteroids? Only reason I can think of is to make it easy for PVPers to gank miners. PVPers should have to track down Rumored asteroids just like miners do... that would reduce the risk considerably. In the safe zone, it's nice to have discovered asteroids available for new players who do not have DSATs on their ships . I like your idea a lot for the PVP space though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pleione Posted November 24, 2022 Author Share Posted November 24, 2022 17 minutes ago, fiddlybits said: In the safe zone, it's nice to have discovered asteroids available for new players who do not have DSATs on their ships . I like your idea a lot for the PVP space though. Fair enough... although in my limited experience, by the time they get there all they find is swiss cheese. Note my original comment about a non-Discovered Roid in safe space that had 26 ships on it 77 minutes BEFORE it was marked as Discovered.... during the work day (at least in the USA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pleione Posted November 24, 2022 Author Share Posted November 24, 2022 32 minutes ago, Devian said: PVP Community is the last listened too lol. You missed their refrain "Blame the carebears". Stupid carebears... want to optimize their ships for hauling and ignore being shot at. Yeah, its the carebears that are causing the game to die... right... (Obviously I don't agree.) Pre-0.23 had a ganker explain to me all I needed to do was quadruple my empty weight in shield voxels and I'd be fine. Ignore that to maintain my speed, I'd need to add more engines, and more wings, and more adjustors, and more brakes, in an almost never ending cycle and still probably wouldn't have my original speed. But I was a silly carebear, unwilling to take 9 hours to make what was originally a 4 hour flight. Then NQ nerfed warping if you were even pinged by a laser - one voxel damaged and your warp drive goes offline for 5 minutes. Tell me that wasn't done on the behest of PVPers??? They literally bitched that too many ships were warping out when target locked... so NQ obliged them. Yeah, I'm bitter... but I explained why elsewhere (age and health related). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endstar Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 Large fleet battles are some of the best DU fun to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Cain Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 9 hours ago, Devian said: PVP Community is the last listened too lol. I believe you on your blue eyes, but atleast they are heared. PvE faction got purple voxels............think they asked for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight-Sevy Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 If I use purple voxels on my PvP ship, would you say they were implemented at the request of PvP players? You forgot that a PvP player is a more accomplished player than just a PvE player. Because all PvP players also do PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Cain Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 good points, but the same goes for pve players, most of them also PvP. For me its pretty simple, i play pvp in loads of games and in DU it will be no different but my DU choices might fit better for now in a PvE perspective till i finally build my goal. And probably that goes for all. Implementation of features should be balanced and if there were npc factions the additions now called "for PvP"would also be general and indeed Industrial changes also affect PvP so maybe we should just stop making the difference between the two. DU could do with more features right now and although some stuff is great to have it does not bring back fun. The only ones that can bring back fun are the community members and frankly, we dont have many at the moment. Also seeing the fora and discord, only the same small group of people reacts there and its not enough critical mass to make a possitive effect ingame on global fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraXXoR Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said: If I use purple voxels on my PvP ship, would you say they were implemented at the request of PvP players? You forgot that a PvP player is a more accomplished player than just a PvE player. Because all PvP players also do PvE. Dafaq r u onnabaut...? srsly... this deer has no eyes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight-Sevy Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, Jinxed said: Dafaq r u onnabaut...? srsly... this deer has no eyes... sorry for the language barrier and the translation but this does not allow me to understand this message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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