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Exploit with mining units


DannyUK
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On 11/18/2022 at 10:14 PM, Rimezx said:

Yeah i finally ran out of copium aswell. Don't forget to dump ur stuff on your haven/sanct territory in case you ever want to come back. I'm leaving probably permanently Nov 23rd with sub end.

Yes thank you. I've got almost everything ready.

 

Regarding asteroids and mining (with the latest update).
Yes, asteroids were fun in the beginning. Especially the race to find it first. But then I realized that I don't like looking for the hundredth time for a 5-8 kiloliter t1 ore node. When there was planetary mining, there was a passion to find a mega node, or at least a large node for 100+ kl of ore. Now this is not. Roids are just the tedious work of an underground mole with no hope of a surprise.
Now there are few asteroids, and there are fewer players. It kills the motive to get anything at all. The market is dying. All more or less self-sufficient. Flying through missions is boring (well, you can only watch the series in parallel. But this is nonsense - to entertain yourself in the game while watching TV shows or movies!).

 

I don't know who NQ wanted to rein in with this "fix" mining units. Mining asteroids is still sad and looks like working in the garbage. When you have to shovel heaps of earth to find something worthwhile. Once again, cause and effect have been overlooked.

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On 11/18/2022 at 4:21 AM, Honvik said:

 

Except it was highly abused.  I know of multiple people who have billions made from high tier ore farms that had 1/2 l of T4/5.  It was not intended gameplay and NQ had to do something to balance the economy before it was too late.

Also it was not highly abused. This is a pure mental misconception.  If this was the case we would see allot more Ilmenite on the market then columbite an rhodonite and vanadiite.  All the numbers look to be about the same.  If this was the case we would see allot more Cobaltite and Cryolie then Gold and Kolbeckite on the market.  This is not the case the numbers are about the same.  Sure gold prices are a bit higher, but thats always been the case for gold. 

 

And if the thought that calibrating like this was adding to much more into the game. When the new planets get added in All those calibration points are now gong to be put towards full flowers which will add in 10 times the amount that this "abused" mechanic added in. I mean unless NQ does something crazy like only adding 3 or 4 flowers to these new planets. 

 

People need to stop worrying about what other people have, and worry about what they have. 

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9 minutes ago, RugesV said:

Also it was not highly abused. This is a pure mental misconception.  If this was the case we would see allot more Ilmenite on the market then columbite an rhodonite and vanadiite.  All the numbers look to be about the same.  If this was the case we would see allot more Cobaltite and Cryolie then Gold and Kolbeckite on the market.  This is not the case the numbers are about the same.  Sure gold prices are a bit higher, but thats always been the case for gold. 

 

And if the thought that calibrating like this was adding to much more into the game. When the new planets get added in All those calibration points are now gong to be put towards full flowers which will add in 10 times the amount that this "abused" mechanic added in. I mean unless NQ does something crazy like only adding 3 or 4 flowers to these new planets. 

 

People need to stop worrying about what other people have, and worry about what they have. 

 

Actually a number of people I do know have sold a lot of ore gained from calibrating high tier ore.   Ore is something people hold onto it isnt always a case of selling it at least onto markets that is.  Prices are rising more recently because the mining calibrations issue may have been resolved.  Of course calibrations apply to more alts needed to sustain.

 

Either way it was overused and abused IMO.  I know of a number of people with a lot of T5's T4s (not in my org) who firmly used it.  I did wonder why they dont armour their ships etc but they holding back until CCS/Voxels are worth it again

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Yes armored ship in voxel T4 or more is a net waste of money and time on the game.

They would get destroyed so easily by just one poor gunner cannon S circling around them.
 

But we still use a good part of this ore to craft rare weapons. The stocks are not useless, then everything is found on the PvP asteroids.

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2 hours ago, Honvik said:

 

Actually a number of people I do know have sold a lot of ore gained from calibrating high tier ore.   Ore is something people hold onto it isnt always a case of selling it at least onto markets that is.  Prices are rising more recently because the mining calibrations issue may have been resolved.  Of course calibrations apply to more alts needed to sustain.

 

Either way it was overused and abused IMO.  I know of a number of people with a lot of T5's T4s (not in my org) who firmly used it.  I did wonder why they dont armour their ships etc but they holding back until CCS/Voxels are worth it again

yes allot of people did sell it. but I am pointing out in the grand scheme of things that amount of ore did not imbalance the economy. Because if it was that imbalanced the prices for the calibrated ore would be allot lower then the price of ore you cannot calibrate. 

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On 11/18/2022 at 4:44 AM, Knight-Sevy said:

This change is really a good thing.
Someone who really owns a flower of 7 tiles will finally be able to be rewarded for their investment.

I would agree if everyone was able to get a 7 tile flower through hard work. But how is it fair some have them now while no else can obtain them?

 

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22 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

well the setup of the new ore deposits is all a good setuip for planetary warfare, but guess what we are missing?

 

I'm aware this is a somewhat rhetorical question, to which the obvious answer is "planetary warfare", but I'd like to further assert that we are also missing any kind of vision as to what it might look like, and any firm idea of what sort of priority it has or that it's even still on whatever passes for a roadmap in NQ central these days. Currently, it's so MIA, it's the acme of vapourware.

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57 minutes ago, Kezzle said:

we are also missing any kind of vision as to what it might look like, and any firm idea of what sort of priority it has or that it's even still on whatever passes for a roadmap in NQ central these days.

I would bet real money that the 'first draft version' for planetary warfare (NQ speak for permanent), would involve some kind of repetitive mini game with long unskippable animations and annoying sound design.

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9 hours ago, RugesV said:

Also it was not highly abused. This is a pure mental misconception.  If this was the case we would see allot more Ilmenite on the market then columbite an rhodonite and vanadiite.  All the numbers look to be about the same.  If this was the case we would see allot more Cobaltite and Cryolie then Gold and Kolbeckite on the market.  This is not the case the numbers are about the same.  Sure gold prices are a bit higher, but thats always been the case for gold. 

 

And if the thought that calibrating like this was adding to much more into the game. When the new planets get added in All those calibration points are now gong to be put towards full flowers which will add in 10 times the amount that this "abused" mechanic added in. I mean unless NQ does something crazy like only adding 3 or 4 flowers to these new planets. 

 

People need to stop worrying about what other people have, and worry about what they have. 

Have you tried to calibrate ilmenite?  There were probably people doing it but:
- the harvesting takes a looooong time compared with lower tiers

- the calibration game drops a lot less of it

- exotic mining units take a loooooong time to make.  The factory to make them is also expensive and takes a loooong time to make.  Buying them off the market is very expensive even if you only need one.

- you have to fly all the way to a distant planet (Jago in this case) and back with the ore.

 

I could have calibrated T5 (having access to tiles of more or less all types available) but I don't even own an exotic miner.  I was mostly doing T2 and T3 because that was the sweet spot.  T4 required more travel than I wanted.

 

People were definitely doing this a lot and making a lot of ore.  I was doing it with 6 characters and I saw screenshots with a *lot* more ore than I was getting.

 

It is also naive to think that what others have doesn't affect you.  We're playing in a shared market with supply and demand.  If people have 100x more wealth than you then they will bid up the price of things and you won't be able to afford them.  Sometimes this will be because something is in short supply, sometimes just because they are rich and can get richer by doing it.  Don't believe me, look at the garnierite market right now.  Why is it selling for 2x the price of the other ore types?  Someone with a lot of money is spending 100s of millions manipulating it to make garnierite 2x the price it was before calibrations were stopped.  For a while it was even more expensive than it is now.

 

So you can just worry about your own things if you like, but I bet you'll end up complaining when someone with more than you breaks the game with their money.

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3 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

Have you tried to calibrate ilmenite?  There were probably people doing it but:
- the harvesting takes a looooong time compared with lower tiers

- the calibration game drops a lot less of it

- exotic mining units take a loooooong time to make.  The factory to make them is also expensive and takes a loooong time to make.  Buying them off the market is very expensive even if you only need one.

- you have to fly all the way to a distant planet (Jago in this case) and back with the ore.

 

I could have calibrated T5 (having access to tiles of more or less all types available) but I don't even own an exotic miner.  I was mostly doing T2 and T3 because that was the sweet spot.  T4 required more travel than I wanted.

 

People were definitely doing this a lot and making a lot of ore.  I was doing it with 6 characters and I saw screenshots with a *lot* more ore than I was getting.

 

It is also naive to think that what others have doesn't affect you.  We're playing in a shared market with supply and demand.  If people have 100x more wealth than you then they will bid up the price of things and you won't be able to afford them.  Sometimes this will be because something is in short supply, sometimes just because they are rich and can get richer by doing it.  Don't believe me, look at the garnierite market right now.  Why is it selling for 2x the price of the other ore types?  Someone with a lot of money is spending 100s of millions manipulating it to make garnierite 2x the price it was before calibrations were stopped.  For a while it was even more expensive than it is now.

 

So you can just worry about your own things if you like, but I bet you'll end up complaining when someone with more than you breaks the game with their money.

 

Once again, thats cool and all, but it still seems like the vast majority dont agree with this or the bot change. Especially considering how rush they were with no real notification, or them outright lying to us in discord about what was going on. We get it, the PvP bois got there way. You win, have fun in whats left of the game. They seem to care much more what a small percentage of the population wants because they are all buddy buddy with them, rather then what would help them retain new players and keep the bulk/majority of them around.

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8 minutes ago, CyberDay said:

 

Once again, thats cool and all, but it still seems like the vast majority dont agree with this or the bot change. Especially considering how rush they were with no real notification, or them outright lying to us in discord about what was going on. We get it, the PvP bois got there way. You win, have fun in whats left of the game. They seem to care much more what a small percentage of the population wants because they are all buddy buddy with them, rather then what would help them retain new players and keep the bulk/majority of them around.

PVP orgs finally shot down a big one. They killed DU with their insider connections.

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9 hours ago, CyberDay said:

 

Once again, thats cool and all, but it still seems like the vast majority dont agree with this or the bot change. Especially considering how rush they were with no real notification, or them outright lying to us in discord about what was going on. We get it, the PvP bois got there way. You win, have fun in whats left of the game. They seem to care much more what a small percentage of the population wants because they are all buddy buddy with them, rather then what would help them retain new players and keep the bulk/majority of them around.

 

I wasn't talking about PvP though or anything like that.  I was just explaining that yes, a lot of ore was getting generated by calibrations.  People have *millions* of L of T2+ ore in boxes which they were saving and not listing on the market (because, lets face it we all knew this was broken and would stop eventually).

 

Yes, I completely agree that the game is fundamentally broken and the 'I just want to log on and mine for a bit' planet mining loop was never properly replaced, meaning that a lot of people's gameplay loop got broken.  I get that calibrations might have filled that hole for some people.  But it was still massively broken and needed fixing and not really the answer to the other problems.

 

I also think the bot change is a problem for similar reasons.  They literally said 'fewer people should be automining T1 ore and selling it'.  Which is just taking away a gameplay loop from people without replacing it with another.  And it's a gameplay loop that was particularly well suited to newer players.  That having been said missions are so broken at the moment that T1 ore is likely to sell reasonably well anyway.

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11 hours ago, Thunderblaze said:

PVP orgs finally shot down a big one. They killed DU with their insider connections.

 

If this is true then they just cancelled their own jobs. The moment insiders dictate game loops in general its a dead end, we saw that before

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On 11/21/2022 at 2:31 PM, RugesV said:

Also it was not highly abused. This is a pure mental misconception.  If this was the case we would see allot more Ilmenite on the market then columbite an rhodonite and vanadiite.  All the numbers look to be about the same.  If this was the case we would see allot more Cobaltite and Cryolie then Gold and Kolbeckite on the market.  This is not the case the numbers are about the same.  Sure gold prices are a bit higher, but thats always been the case for gold. 

 

And if the thought that calibrating like this was adding to much more into the game. When the new planets get added in All those calibration points are now gong to be put towards full flowers which will add in 10 times the amount that this "abused" mechanic added in. I mean unless NQ does something crazy like only adding 3 or 4 flowers to these new planets. 

 

People need to stop worrying about what other people have, and worry about what they have. 

You are just supporting this simply because it suits your interests. It's like saying p2w in games is fine. Don't look at the other guy having everything u are striving to get. Doesn't work that way sorry. What about the starters that are gonna have to grind quanta to get those ores from ppl like you? But let me guess, you don't give a [filtered]. 

 

There are people with multiple accounts that could generate ore out of the same tile without restrictions. If you cannot see why this is problematic then idk what else to say to you. 

 

This whole system with flowers and mining units is the problem. You are looking at the tree and not the forest.

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