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Was this game ever fixed after the utterly game breaking .23 update?

Loved the utter schiznit out of this game early on and had high hopes.

I'll never forget the day I logged on to find that I could no longer play the game the way I had been playing up to that point.

 

Anyhoo, I followed some Youtubers for a minute hoping things would improve but eventually even they began to despair and I gave up.

Anyone here who has ridden the entire wave care to comment on whether or not an old school, sky's the limit approach player would be interested in taking another look?

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   I stuck around for 7 months after .23. I decided if they are going to soft wipe my industry, i'll focus on ship building. The constant economy disruptions (like right now) make that challenging but my biggest problem is how feedback is completely ignored.

 

   I believe they were dangling the idea of a wipe even back in summer 2021 when i stopped playing. NQ is still playing "will we/won't we" wipe and its insane. A game that relies on a large number of players to spend large amounts of time making this living world; to treat them with such contempt is incredible.

 

   I watch from afar like many, hoping a real studio will take over and make DU what it can and should be. My 2 cents

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DU failed as wider content social game a la EVE (at least partly), degraded into ultra niche thing for several hundreds of stubborn nerds, who enjoy it as sort of voxel/lua editior. This is not viable commercially.

 

Can they turn it around? Unlikely. Time window for that if not gone, become immensly more narrow.

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Joined in the first Alpha played hundreds of hours with and even was interviewed by the mouse @le_souriceau himself for his gazette back in the early days (under a different name) and I honestly thought this game had hit the sweet spot, but then it all just went to shit after 0.23 hit and combined with a total lack of progress, nay intermittent downgrading, the game became all but pointless. Only a single member from our org of about 50 players still plays anything more than the skill queue mini game.

 

such a shame. I still stare at all my old screenshots from the NDA Alpha period and reminisce about what could have been.

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7 hours ago, Squeakity_Squeak said:

Was this game ever fixed after the utterly game breaking .23 update?

Loved the utter schiznit out of this game early on and had high hopes.

I'll never forget the day I logged on to find that I could no longer play the game the way I had been playing up to that point.

 

Anyhoo, I followed some Youtubers for a minute hoping things would improve but eventually even they began to despair and I gave up.

Anyone here who has ridden the entire wave care to comment on whether or not an old school, sky's the limit approach player would be interested in taking another look?

If you felt limited by schematics, the wall just fell on this patch.
 

You can now craft everything very easily with very little initial investment, maybe 1% of the amount needed beforehand to manufacture 1 higher tier engine for example.
 

Research times and quanta cost at a high enough ceiling that a solo/casual player is never really limited.
 

Those who no happy are either the usual guys who no longer play at the game and are only there to see it fall and be able to say their bad "I told you so". Or the mega industrialists who parasitize the entire economy and the overall performance / financial health of the game in the long term which expresses their dissatisfaction.
 

People seem to prefer going into the wall and having everything stop rather than thinking that having a game is better than not having one...

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30 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

Those who no happy are either the usual guys who no longer play at the game and are only there to see it fall and be able to say their bad "I told you so". Or the mega industrialists who parasitize the entire economy and the overall performance / financial health of the game in the long term which expresses their dissatisfaction.
 

People seem to prefer going into the wall and having everything stop rather than thinking that having a game is better than not having one...

 

Maybe speak for yourself instead of explaining other people's thoughts and motivations. There's a lot more opinions than the simple dichotomy you're presenting. 

 

do see how this change makes it easier on new players...but also see how this changes the nature of industry at scale, which removes yet another core pillar of the game, reducing overall engagement. 

 

Exploration isn't a thing, anymore, because mining is gone. Wrecks obviously don't count as a real exploration mechanic to anyone that's tried. 

Mining isn't a thing anymore, it's a timer. 

Missions are mostly NPC missions slowboating, that's not fun to me or to most people. 

Now industry...it's still a feature, but with these changes, it limits how much time you can really spend on it. 

 

To be clear, this change wouldn't be a problem if DU was like other MMOs, overflowing with other things to do.

 

If that were the case, I'd be far more open to this change, because I understand (very well with a lot of real experience) why scaling factories is difficult. 

 

But...DU isn't that game. It's a game that's always suffered from a lack of feature depth, which NQ's recent crop of changes have made far worse. So we can't scale factories anymore...okay, that wouldn't be a huge deal on its own...but then, what can we do? Build bases that don't do anything? Fly ships that don't need to go anywhere? 

 

They keep talking about cost and making changes to reduce cost....but where are these resources going? There needs to be something to do at scale -- it isn't industry, it isn't mining, it isn't missions, it sure as hell isn't PvP. 

 

Looking back on when this beta launched and thinking "hey, there was actually more stuff to do then than there is now" isn't a great sign that this is an MMO that can grow and expand. 

 

That's the fundamental issue I have with these changes...it takes a game with little feature depth and makes it even more shallow.

 

At this stage, things should be progressing the other direction. Instead, development is going backwards...making the game less and less feature-rich and engaging with every patch in the name of cost. It was NQ's job to design and develop a working game knowing the limits of infrastructure, as every professional engineer in the world does. 

 

This is one of the most basic and obvious facets of developing an MMO and isn't something you think about only in the months before release. 

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4 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

 

Maybe speak for yourself instead of explaining other people's thoughts and motivations. There's a lot more opinions than the simple dichotomy you're presenting. 

 

do see how this change makes it easier on new players...but also see how this changes the nature of industry at scale, which removes yet another core pillar of the game, reducing overall engagement. 

 

Exploration isn't a thing, anymore, because mining is gone. Wrecks obviously don't count as a real exploration mechanic to anyone that's tried. 

Mining isn't a thing anymore, it's a timer. 

Missions are mostly NPC missions slowboating, that's not fun to me or to most people. 

Now industry...it's still a feature, but with these changes, it limits how much time you can really spend on it. 

 

To be clear, this change wouldn't be a problem if DU was like other MMOs, overflowing with other things to do.

 

If that were the case, I'd be far more open to this change, because I understand (very well with a lot of real experience) why scaling factories is difficult. 

 

But...DU isn't that game. It's a game that's always suffered from a lack of feature depth, which NQ's recent crop of changes have made far worse. So we can't scale factories anymore...okay, that wouldn't be a huge deal on its own...but then, what can we do? Build bases that don't do anything? Fly ships that don't need to go anywhere? 

 

They keep talking about cost and making changes to reduce cost....but where are these resources going? There needs to be something to do at scale -- it isn't industry, it isn't mining, it isn't missions, it sure as hell isn't PvP. 

 

Looking back on when this beta launched and thinking "hey, there was actually more stuff to do then than there is now" isn't a great sign that this is an MMO that can grow and expand. 

 

That's the fundamental issue I have with these changes...it takes a game with little feature depth and makes it even more shallow.

 

At this stage, things should be progressing the other direction. Instead, development is going backwards...making the game less and less feature-rich and engaging with every patch in the name of cost. It was NQ's job to design and develop a working game knowing the limits of infrastructure, as every professional engineer in the world does. 

 

This is one of the most basic and obvious facets of developing an MMO and isn't something you think about only in the months before release. 

 

There is no more thing to do than at the time, however.

If you're talking to me about mining on planets it just moved to asteroids.
With the new industry system you can do a lot more than the system that was there since 0.23

I don't see what was removed and not replaced.
If it's not better, it's certainly not worse.

It's just your human instinct resistant to change and filled with nostalgia that speaks.

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1 minute ago, Knight-Sevy said:

It's just your human instinct resistant to change and filled with nostalgia that speaks.

 

No, I took a lot of time to outline my reasoning, which you didn't address.

 

You don't get to tell me what my motivation is. If you have an opinion, you're free to articulate it and I welcome it. I have nothing but respect for other opinions. 

 

However, you don't get to tell me what my opinion or motivation is just because it's something you believe.

 

So by all means you can disagree with me, but do so with reasoning and not by telling me what I "really" think. 

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21 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

 

No, I took a lot of time to outline my reasoning, which you didn't address.

 

You don't get to tell me what my motivation is. If you have an opinion, you're free to articulate it and I welcome it. I have nothing but respect for other opinions. 

 

However, you don't get to tell me what my opinion or motivation is just because it's something you believe.

 

So by all means you can disagree with me, but do so with reasoning and not by telling me what I "really" think. 

 

But suddenly what did NQ remove and who was present in the game and who is no longer there now?
This which seems to trigger your discontent.

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18 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

 

But suddenly what did NQ remove and who was present in the game and who is no longer there now?
This which seems to trigger your discontent.

 

This reply got lost in translation I think. I'm not understanding what you are trying to say here, but again...you're making assumptions that I feel a certain way when I don't.

 

Nothing "triggered my discontent" and seeing as how you don't know me at all, it's weird to make any assumptions about how I feel.

 

I've explained what I think about these changes. Any other presumptions about my state of mind are irrelevant, baseless, and live only in your imagination.

 

If you have something to say about the reasoning I've presented, great.

Otherwise, the way I feel is both none of your business and entirely outside your ability to know or speculate about. If I feel a certain way, I will let you know. Otherwise, don't make assumptions for me or for other players. 

 

Not saying this is the case, but these sort of assumptions undermine any argument you make because it makes it seem like you can't articulate a reply based on reason and are instead trying to frame my stance as being unreasonable or emotional. 

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28 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

 

This reply got lost in translation I think. I'm not understanding what you are trying to say here, but again...you're making assumptions that I feel a certain way when I don't.

 

Nothing "triggered my discontent" and seeing as how you don't know me at all, it's weird to make any assumptions about how I feel.

 

I've explained what I think about these changes. Any other presumptions about my state of mind are irrelevant, baseless, and live only in your imagination.

 

If you have something to say about the reasoning I've presented, great.

Otherwise, the way I feel is both none of your business and entirely outside your ability to know or speculate about. If I feel a certain way, I will let you know. Otherwise, don't make assumptions for me or for other players. 

 

Not saying this is the case, but these sort of assumptions undermine any argument you make because it makes it seem like you can't articulate a reply based on reason and are instead trying to frame my stance as being unreasonable or emotional. 


I think you are going way too far in your analysis and are totally off topic.
 

I didn't want to get into a philosophical debate with you. Please understand that was not my goal.


Getting back on topic (if you want to talk about it), you said :
" Now industry...it's still a feature, but with these changes, it limits how much time you can really spend on it." 
"At this stage, things should be progressing the other direction. Instead, development is going backwards...making the game less and less feature-rich and engaging with every patch in the name of cost."

I can understand that the game is not progressing, I myself am waiting for basic and central additions which do not arrive (and may never arrive).
But tell me what you find that has been removed from the game and that reduces the player experience compared to what was offered 2 years ago ?

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When I think that DualUniverse itself is getting smaller and smaller, (not in terms of space, but in terms of playful freedom).
even though the number of existing players is very limited and manageable, yet seemingly incurs significant cost deficits, I have strong doubts about what players can do when a million players play the game for 5 years and build cities and space stations. 
What will NQ do in 5 years after release when players have built so much that the costs are prohibitive? Will they invent something again to take something away from the players or will it be enough to increase the subscription costs? That will be difficult in the long run. Most players haven't even come close to reaching their core limits of how much they can build. Many players have also not built any giga-factories, but only smaller factories for self-sufficiency because the schematics were so expensive.

What does this game offer in terms of content and fun? When I think about what World of Warcraft had in terms of content in 2005 (?) and how it looks now after >15years, how much content has been added to the game and NOT deleted. More arenas, more battlegrounds, more dungeons, more raids, more quests, more areas, more continents, more classes, more races, ...and it just keeps going and going....The game offers an enormously wide range of game content, so that every player can find something for themselves at any time without getting bored. At the same time, it is designed to really use your time with games and not just to fly somewhere AFK through space.

For me, DualUniverse is developing in a completely wrong direction. You won't attract more players if you introduce more limitations. You won't get more players if you don't have a choice of content that is fun and keeps players engaged in the long run.

And yes, we players will continue to go round in circles for weeks and months, nothing will change, Deckard has already confirmed that. That's why you can also stop chasing your dreams and should wake up here and face reality.

 

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.23 wasn't really a big deal after schematic prices were lowered, if that's all it takes to lose you interest in the game then don't bother. Even if .23 never happened, people would've gotten bored with everything else and left. There still lacks an incentive to stay in the long term, other than the creative building part

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Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Not sure ".23 wasn't really a big deal..." as it was to me and a lot of others.

Regardless, sounds bleak.

Unfortunate.

15 hours ago, le_souriceau said:

Can they turn it around? Unlikely. Time window for that if not gone, become immensly more narrow.

Sadly, I think you're right.

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19 hours ago, Squeakity_Squeak said:

Was this game ever fixed after the utterly game breaking .23 update?

Loved the utter schiznit out of this game early on and had high hopes.

I'll never forget the day I logged on to find that I could no longer play the game the way I had been playing up to that point.

 

Anyhoo, I followed some Youtubers for a minute hoping things would improve but eventually even they began to despair and I gave up.

Anyone here who has ridden the entire wave care to comment on whether or not an old school, sky's the limit approach player would be interested in taking another look?

 

I would consider the patch that was just released to be the anti 0.23 to players that just wanted to make their own stuff. If you are not looking to run a massive factory with all machines going at once on one account, this patch is closer to what the game was pre 0.23. There are some tedious aspects to how the new process works that I hope they fix, but it is once again possible to casually run a factory for just yourself (you will need to either buy schematic copies or plan ahead and queue your own).

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I have to reply to this because people saying this helps things and new players are wrong in my opinion.

 

I played for 3 months so did not see the change of .23.   But current after working my but off I spent 4million a week for 8 tiles.   I got good tiles and made approx 13mill a week mining and selling ore.  I kept the ore on sanctuary (all 4)  and copper on alioth.    With an investment of one week profit I had the schematics to make fuel.   So no fuel cost.   It is nice to come and play and have 59k of each fuel every morning to fly around as i want 2.   Or after investing approx. 2 weeks profit i could make windows/ doors/ and voxils I wanted to build up a small area with cool stuff.  

 

After 2 months I wanted to get into pvp.   It took 1 weeks profit to get shield/radar/guns    I saved and got schematics 70 mill to make Large space engines and 2 more tiles and kept a stock of 20 large space engines (adv Mil)   and gave some to friends.   I was going to finish a ship that i could make easy and try with friends but now.  NO thank you, Even if I could make fuel without a Sch,...    Still warp cells 1 schematic per warp cell..... and it takes 100+ each way.. LOLOLOLOL... Someone in research knows as much about warp cells as they do XL wings..    WOW!  talk about brilliance.  

 

 

I would log in and do all my tiles in 2 hours .. and 2 hours to pick up and sell the ore..    They had me for 30 hours a week and 2 accounts gladly.   NOW 1 hour in a week, and no accounts.  And if this patch stays in for more than a week.  Zero hours for good

 

NOW you want me to spend time every time i log in and money to make sure i have schematics to make fuel / make pure.  ohhh let me sign in 10 times a day to move crap around to make sure it is avail if a friend needs some fuel.  NO!!!!!!!!        This is an added time sink to a game that has absolutely nothing to do but build.   NOW i have to have a time sink to make schematics every time i want to make a new plastic or try to make something else.    They added a way to take money and time but added NOTHING fun or way to make money at all.   And dont say sell schematics because im not signing in to add to a q jus to sell....

 

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On 7/28/2022 at 6:58 PM, Deathknight said:

 

I would consider the patch that was just released to be the anti 0.23 to players that just wanted to make their own stuff. If you are not looking to run a massive factory with all machines going at once on one account, this patch is closer to what the game was pre 0.23. There are some tedious aspects to how the new process works that I hope they fix, but it is once again possible to casually run a factory for just yourself (you will need to either buy schematic copies or plan ahead and queue your own).

 

 

But do we really know what NQ's intentions are?

 

Do they intend to double back and allow players more independence? or is this just another heavy-handed swing of the pendulum?

 

What worries me is that they're going to let people get comfortable with these changes, as they did with the game pre .23, and then suddenly drop another bomb on us and introduce some new system for gating industry.

 

Personally, i kind of preferred the game as it was pre .23.  i like to be able to do things myself.  But i wouldn't want to sacrifice an entire pillar of gameplay just so i don't have to leave my base to get more ship parts.  With schematics people were actually buying things from each other, and from the markets.  And the huge player run stores were probably the closest the game has ever come to the "player driven content" that they've always talked about.

 

It seems crazy to throw that all out now.

 

But the worst thing they could do is keep making huge reactionary changes that confuse and disappoint large groups of players.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

But the worst thing they could do is keep making huge reactionary changes that confuse and disappoint large groups of players.

 

 

Yeah, totally agree. It is really hard to get a read on NQ intentions, which is really unnerving. I still put in the time and money to support the game, but it is a big commitment when you are not even sure which direction you are going on the road.

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On 8/1/2022 at 11:56 AM, Deathknight said:

 

Yeah, totally agree. It is really hard to get a read on NQ intentions, which is really unnerving. 

 

On contrary. Its very simple to read.

 

Their "intentions/direction" are not something solid or continous but ad hoc adapting to situation on ground. So key is situation, not what they talk about (quite often misleading, as JCs "no red flags" couple of month before its all exploded in one big red flag).

 

There is 4 clear phases so far we can observe, corresponding with time and money NQ have/had:

 

1) "KS fantasy" phase, when JC shared with us fairytales.

2) "Total mess" phase when JC encoutered cold facts, that gamedev is hard and everything gone wrong.

3) "Salvaging" phase, when JC left and NQ decided to simplify things to make them more viable (financially first of all) -- this optimization on many levels what is going on now. 

 

4) Next "Release" phase obviously will go with harder attemt to monetize. So it safe to predict, that (likely) indirectly gameplay will double down around mechanics changes stimulating people to spend more money. Because they at last need to make some invested money back, after all this empty years.

 

In what form? My bet it will be wipe with intent to drag all suriving and new players into new "race" from relative 0, so everyone stimulated to run (at least first several months) several accounts, burning both old dacs and giving NQ new sub money.

 

Its so logical in cynical way, i will be suprised not to see it.

 

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