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Maybe the biggest factor in the new mining system overlooked by NQ is ....


Jake Arver
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Without a territory scanner it is impossible to know if a tile is worth investing in and paying 1.5 million to find out is really the only option if you do not (yet) fly around with one.

 

Mining requires a static construct, which in turn requires a claimed tile. To claim a tile and start mining you need to pay 1.5 million. Money which you may find is a waste as the tile does not have the resources to pay for taxes.

 

Unless I am mistakes, a new tile must have it's cost of 500K and the taxes for the week at 1M quanta paid in advance before you can even place a mining unit.

So add a ship capable of carrying a territory scanner to the list of prerequisites to find a tile worth paying for.. 

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5 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

 

Without a territory scanner it is impossible to know if a tile is worth investing in and paying 1.5 million to find out is really the only option if you do not (yet) fly around with one.

 

Mining requires a static construct, which in turn requires a claimed tile. To claim a tile and start mining you need to pay 1.5 million. Money which you may find is a waste as the tile does not have the resources to pay for taxes.

 

Unless I am mistakes, a new tile must have it's cost of 500K and the taxes for the week at 1M quanta paid in advance before you can even place a mining unit.

So add a ship capable of carrying a territory scanner to the list of prerequisites to find a tile worth paying for.. 

We dont know what the starting package will be though, they might give new players a scanner in the future, might give them 5m quanta, we have no idea. 

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A territory scanner by itself  is pretty pointless, you can't carry it in inventory and need a decent ship to fly it around. 

 

That said, it would not be beyond the way NQ reasons to just make the scanner fit or "introduce a portable sscanner" to not resolve the issue they create, but sweep it under the rug with the rest of them..

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7 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

 

Without a territory scanner it is impossible to know if a tile is worth investing in and paying 1.5 million to find out is really the only option if you do not (yet) fly around with one.

 

Mining requires a static construct, which in turn requires a claimed tile. To claim a tile and start mining you need to pay 1.5 million. Money which you may find is a waste as the tile does not have the resources to pay for taxes.

 

Unless I am mistakes, a new tile must have it's cost of 500K and the taxes for the week at 1M quanta paid in advance before you can even place a mining unit.

So add a ship capable of carrying a territory scanner to the list of prerequisites to find a tile worth paying for.. 

 

You dont need a ship though thats a different story altogether.

 

The easiest solution is to allow territory scanners to link directly to the TU. Or to have the miner eat an updated tile scan to bypass the mini game. But it would be nice if the MUs could use triangulation in the actual tile to find ore more quickly and raise the rates if you put them in all the tile joints to reduce the time of mining. Followed by drill bits that produce more ore in general as the efficiency that gets destroyed, and the mini game to increase efficiency.

 

I do hope they treat MUs like industry in the sense that it isnt just a miner linked to a box and a mini game. It would be nice to have a system along with talents in prospecting and mining equal to industry rather than a side step of the mining tree but that MU operations should add mining talents of the person pressing the button to start it or the output of the mini game.

 

But on the topic of ships I dont see a problem in allowing people to stap miners to ships either when they are out scanning or just flat out just using ships to mine on unclaimed tiles like the older mining system. It would also be nice to just be able to have industry or limited industry on ships as well.

 

The other thing about ships and MUs is if you could attach a number of MUs to a ship and while asteroid mining if you land on the asteroid the MU should actually start to mine the ore in the asteroid. Its only fair that actual miners should be able to use mining equipment or at the very least add some kind of ship based voxel mining elements to crush asteroids faster than players can with bigger industrial digging tools.

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2 hours ago, Warlander said:

You dont need a ship though thats a different story altogether.

 

Of course you do.. Territory scanner does not fit in your pocket. It also needs at least a M container to store as far as I recall

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4 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

 

Of course you do.. Territory scanner does not fit in your pocket. It also needs at least a M container to store as far as I recall

 

Either way the ships with scanners are not connected to any static core containing territory scanners. 

 

If NQ allows static to dynamic core links it would be great for lots of purposes. At the very least though territory scanners should need to be linked to the core with MUs to bypass the minigame since the tile scanner is the same thing as the calibrator in the sense that you could know where the ore is by scanning the tile.

 

But since the tile itself is what the MU is representing it should require triangulation of multiple scanners to get more shown in the mini game where things are with up to date results since you would know where the ore is before playing the mini game.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Warlander said:

Either way the ships with scanners are not connected to any static core containing territory scanners. 

 

You are not getting the point

 

In order to bring a scanner you must bring a ship as you can't carry one around in your inventory.

 

So for a new player, they really have no chance to ensure they start spending millions on securing a tile that is worth the money unless they invest a _lot_ of money upfront.

 

A territory scanner

A ship able to transport it

A Territory Unit

a XS static core at least

somevoxel material

5 basic L mining units

1.5M Quanta to secure a tile and pay first week of taxes
 

That's probbaly a good 12-14 million at least before you ever even make a cent

 

 

EDIT: more like 4-5 million currently.. does not really change the point though

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1 hour ago, Jake Arver said:

 

You are not getting the point

 

In order to bring a scanner you must bring a ship as you can't carry one around in your inventory.

 

So for a new player, they really have no chance to ensure they start spending millions on securing a tile that is worth the money unless they invest a _lot_ of money upfront.

 

A territory scanner

A ship able to transport it

A Territory Unit

a XS static core at least

somevoxel material

5 basic L mining units

1.5M Quanta to secure a tile and pay first week of taxes
 

That's probbaly a good 12-14 million at least before you ever even make a cent

 
Jake don't you know you are supposed either run the alioth 170kh mission 82 times for a total of 41 hours, or surface mine 100kl on Sanct before these grubby peasants can be allowed to leave Sanct? If you are a casual or a builder, then you should pay your subscription and live happy as a Sanct peasant for the rest of your gameplay! Muwahahaha!

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1 hour ago, Jake Arver said:

 

You are not getting the point

 

In order to bring a scanner you must bring a ship as you can't carry one around in your inventory.

 

So for a new player, they really have no chance to ensure they start spending millions on securing a tile that is worth the money unless they invest a _lot_ of money upfront.

 

A territory scanner

A ship able to transport it

A Territory Unit

a XS static core at least

somevoxel material

5 basic L mining units

1.5M Quanta to secure a tile and pay first week of taxes
 

That's probbaly a good 12-14 million at least before you ever even make a cent

 

Oh I get it Jake. But its not nearly as bad as you say.

 

You get 150,000h per day and 1,050,000h per week free.

You get 5 HQ tiles, 1 free sanctuary tile and potentially another free mining tile per week for 7 free tiles if you log in every day.

 

On top of that in order to make a ship to haul it just takes:

  • XS Dynaic Core = 1,284h or S Dynamic core = 21,087h
  • 1 L container = 340,000h
  • 4 hoverpad L's = 33,675 ea or 134,700h total
  • 6 M adjustors = 5694h ea or 34,164h total
  • 4-6 Wing M's = 37,491h ea 149,964-224,946 total
  • Hover Chair seat = 4,999
  • Atmo fuel tank M = 32,471h
  • 2 Atmo Brake L = 37,000h ea or 74,000h total
  • 1 basic atmospheric Engine L = 80,000h
  • Total 584,580h. 

This is a game of choices and there is nothing saying you should have a territory scanner right off the bat. Getting a hauler going for 600k-h is easy to start hauling with no effort but like 4 days of loging into the game with 5 HQ tiles and even if you drop another tile for industry and MUs the least of your concerns are what is produced in the tile at that stage of the game.

 

With just 5 charges for MUs with no exp you can get like 20kl-25kl worth of ore playing the minigame. Lets say that ore is coal for an example you can do ever 2 days at 40h p/l you make an additional 1mil h every two days at current market rate. Seeing as you can do that 3.5 times a week you get 3.5 mil a week on top of the 1,050,000h just logging into the game. You can almost buy a scanner with just the mini games in the first week not including the 84kl you make per week with just a 500 l/h standard tile they would likely drop in. seeing as youll likely get T1 dropping blind plus drop cost you will likely make around 3 mil in just what the MUs produce on their own.

 

The other factor is they can mine rocks on top of that and just mining rocks for two hours netted me about 30kl in random ores that netted me roughly another 4mil+. So its not like new players dont have options or that a lot of stuff can be made inefficiently in the nanocrafter if they dont flat out buy it from the market.

 

Nothing is unobtainable within a week with little to no effort with demeter. And there has never been a point in DU that the game just handed you everything right off the bat that didnt require choosing what you wanted to improve and making hard decisions.

 

The other factor nobody talks about is that every time you play and ace the mini game the more MUs are able to mine from the territory in terms of L/h. Some of our S miners are now pulling 150+ l/h and our L's are now sitting at a top end of 250 l/h. So you dont need a lot of MUs as much as acing the mini game.

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6 hours ago, Warlander said:

 

Oh I get it Jake. But its not nearly as bad as you say.

 

You get 150,000h per day and 1,050,000h per week free.

You get 5 HQ tiles, 1 free sanctuary tile and potentially another free mining tile per week for 7 free tiles if you log in every day.

 

On top of that in order to make a ship to haul it just takes:

  • XS Dynaic Core = 1,284h or S Dynamic core = 21,087h
  • 1 L container = 340,000h
  • 4 hoverpad L's = 33,675 ea or 134,700h total
  • 6 M adjustors = 5694h ea or 34,164h total
  • 4-6 Wing M's = 37,491h ea 149,964-224,946 total
  • Hover Chair seat = 4,999
  • Atmo fuel tank M = 32,471h
  • 2 Atmo Brake L = 37,000h ea or 74,000h total
  • 1 basic atmospheric Engine L = 80,000h
  • Total 584,580h. 

This is a game of choices and there is nothing saying you should have a territory scanner right off the bat. Getting a hauler going for 600k-h is easy to start hauling with no effort but like 4 days of loging into the game with 5 HQ tiles and even if you drop another tile for industry and MUs the least of your concerns are what is produced in the tile at that stage of the game.

 

With just 5 charges for MUs with no exp you can get like 20kl-25kl worth of ore playing the minigame. Lets say that ore is coal for an example you can do ever 2 days at 40h p/l you make an additional 1mil h every two days at current market rate. Seeing as you can do that 3.5 times a week you get 3.5 mil a week on top of the 1,050,000h just logging into the game. You can almost buy a scanner with just the mini games in the first week not including the 84kl you make per week with just a 500 l/h standard tile they would likely drop in. seeing as youll likely get T1 dropping blind plus drop cost you will likely make around 3 mil in just what the MUs produce on their own.

 

The other factor is they can mine rocks on top of that and just mining rocks for two hours netted me about 30kl in random ores that netted me roughly another 4mil+. So its not like new players dont have options or that a lot of stuff can be made inefficiently in the nanocrafter if they dont flat out buy it from the market.

 

Nothing is unobtainable within a week with little to no effort with demeter. And there has never been a point in DU that the game just handed you everything right off the bat that didnt require choosing what you wanted to improve and making hard decisions.

 

The other factor nobody talks about is that every time you play and ace the mini game the more MUs are able to mine from the territory in terms of L/h. Some of our S miners are now pulling 150+ l/h and our L's are now sitting at a top end of 250 l/h. So you dont need a lot of MUs as much as acing the mini game.

Just another example of how much you MUST do to play this game.

Before demeter, you could play at your own pace, now you have got to be hardcore and login every day or loose stuff.

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6 hours ago, Warlander said:

Oh I get it Jake. But its not nearly as bad as you say.

 

You get 150,000h per day and 1,050,000h per week free.

You get 5 HQ tiles, 1 free sanctuary tile and potentially another free mining tile per week for 7 free tiles if you log in every day.

 

Where is this 1,050,000 free quanta per week coming from on top of the 150K login bonus?

 

I'm sorry, but you seem to be missing a few "details"

a HQ tile is not free, is costs the exact same amount compared to a regular tile to obtain and operate. the ONLY difference is that is you do not pay taxes you do not lose ownershipo, but the tile still goes inactive.

5 HQ tiles still cost you 5 million a week to keep running

 

I did see prices for T scanners has come down again, but you still need to spend about 4 million upfront and have 1.5 million at hand if you want to make sure a tile you claim is worth the effort to claim.

 

BTW.. From the parts list you posted, it seems your idea of what is needed to move around a scanner is a tad overengineerd.. ;)

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18 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

Unless I am mistakes, a new tile must have it's cost of 500K and the taxes for the week at 1M quanta paid in advance before you can even place a mining unit.

 

Why bother theorizing about this stuff if you have no idea how any of it works?  You're just kind of throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks at this point?

 

You don't have to pay the taxes on a new tile, to place MUs.  You get three days of free mining before you have to decide whether you want to pay to keep the lights on.

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Well, you could have just shared that info, there really is no need for the rest here. Besides that though, I'm not throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks, my only unknown was whether you have to pay the 1M tax right away.

 

And it really does not changes that much actually, the only difference is you are out of a TU for a week and 500K Quanta just to find out if a tile is worth the effort. Without investing the upfront amount of several millions for a scanner and a ship capable of flying it around, you will easily spend many millions before you find a tile that is worth mining on. and have TU scattered all over the place as you can only pick them back uip after a week.

 

 

My original point IMO remains valid, this is something NQ has entirely overlooked in their design and it especially affects new players who get stuck in a loop trying to find a way to make money instead of growing into the game, enjoying themselves and finding it worth their money to resub. Woudl be interesting to hear from @NQ-Deckard on this..

 

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13 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

 

Where is this 1,050,000 free quanta per week coming from on top of the 150K login bonus?

 

I'm sorry, but you seem to be missing a few "details"

a HQ tile is not free, is costs the exact same amount compared to a regular tile to obtain and operate. the ONLY difference is that is you do not pay taxes you do not lose ownershipo, but the tile still goes inactive.

5 HQ tiles still cost you 5 million a week to keep running

 

I did see prices for T scanners has come down again, but you still need to spend about 4 million upfront and have 1.5 million at hand if you want to make sure a tile you claim is worth the effort to claim.

 

BTW.. From the parts list you posted, it seems your idea of what is needed to move around a scanner is a tad overengineerd.. ;)

 

You log in you get 150k a day or 1,050,000h a week. Whatever they choose to spend it on is up to them or if they want to play DU exclusively on UBI that is up to them. If that is covering tile taxes, building, building ships, building industry, or mining op that is their choice if UBI is their only means of making money. There are plenty of other basic options to make additional income from MUs, Mini Games, and ground rock harvesting that can easily net you 10+ mil a week with no effort whatsoever and if they dont want to do those things then UBI is always there for them.

 

Lets be real Jake.

 

If you are a new player you either have friends who play or you dont and if you start with another new players with friends you either bypass Sanctuary or you progress out of Sanctuary through R&D of ships, talents, building a base, and leaving for Alioth eventually. Anyone who does not have friends outside of Sanctuary should stay there, build a mining opertation, and prepare their base there to produce for an extended period if they go to alioth until such time as you can come back with a proper hauler in 1-3 months that is space ready to gather the resources there or just write the free tile off altogether.

 

Either you skip the Sanctuary experience with friends already playing or you should use that free tile to prepare for leaving Sanctuary. The least of your worries at that time is what is in a tile even though you could have made use of your time on Sanctuary to get one. If you just blindly leave you will need to go through enough progression, R&D, and player skill to get to Alioth even if that is just a shuttle you should have enough funds to get to Alioth to buy what you need with just the credits on you.

 

But lets say you just blindly go to Alioth and skip Sanctuary altogether. The least of your worries is what is in each tile since like 70+% of them are pretty much 500-550 l/h with random ores. If you have no scanner at all it is better to just drop tiles initially to get started since for the most part you will keep getting the same results within 25km from where you drop your first TU. Spending 15 mins a scan is counter productive to making money in that case and the time could be better spent just making money to get to the point of expansion that requires a tile scanner. You can easily with minimal to no effort make 10+ million quanta per week and even with the 3 day grace period you should have plenty of time to make 1 mil quanta with the options available.

 

About the ship.

 

You might see it as "overengineered" but let me ask you then how does a new player get the ore to the market to buy the scanner? Or reversely how do you think these new players are going to make money if you only build the ship to scan and sit around while scanning 4 tiles and hour without being able to make money mining rocks while they wait for the results? Its not like they are an established player who can just spend all day scanning tiles with 3-27 tiles scanners and not have to worry about covering taxes. You will need to harvest something while you wait now.

 

And yeah it is "overengineered on purpose since it was the first ship I made as a new player after crashing the frankenstein starter ship a bunch of times that forced me as a new player going pure miner with no piloting talents or parts putdowns to get from A to B in one piece. The list there is the bare minimum and I usually do x4 L airbrakes and 6 hovers. That setup is rated for a new player to have a full load of iron which was the most abundant and heaviest ore with the old system and allows whatever you want to put in the ship to still get you there or to land at 75kmph with no problems with a full load. Its inexpensive to make for a new player and it gets the job done with no talents and PDs. It might not be pretty to look at but it is a workhorse that is still slow enough to not get atmo burn as a new player.

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9 hours ago, Warlander said:

If you are a new player you either have friends who play or you dont and if you start with another new players with friends you either bypass Sanctuary or you progress out of Sanctuary through R&D of ships, talents, building a base, and leaving for Alioth eventually. Anyone who does not have friends outside of Sanctuary should stay there, build a mining opertation, and prepare their base there to produce for an extended period if they go to alioth until such time as you can come back with a proper hauler in 1-3 months that is space ready to gather the resources there or just write the free tile off altogether.

 

Either you skip the Sanctuary experience with friends already playing or you should use that free tile to prepare for leaving Sanctuary. The least of your worries at that time is what is in a tile even though you could have made use of your time on Sanctuary to get one. If you just blindly leave you will need to go through enough progression, R&D, and player skill to get to Alioth even if that is just a shuttle you should have enough funds to get to Alioth to buy what you need with just the credits on you.

 

 

 

The highlighted bit right here is why DU fails to attract new players. This mentality that lone new players deserve to be chained to their sanctuary tile till they 'grind' enough low hanging fruit to deserve to get off it is ass backwards. Ya know what that new player in your scenario that should just sit on their Sanctuary tile for 1-3 months to come back in a 'proper hauler' will actually do? THEY QUIT. Join an org you say? So the new player tries that only to discover that majority of orgs out there are empty with almost no one playing. They go into chat only to discover people talking about aspects of the game they have no idea about while mostly bashing the game. Maaaybe some old guard takes pity on them and puts them under their wing to try and get them settled into the game. I have done this a few times, and it's extremely time consuming, and thats only if the new player is comfortable with voice coms. Most players just can't be bothered to throw these new players more then a sentence or two of what they should try next. 

 

You don't win new players by gating them behind such a huge progression curve they never get to see what the game has to offer before they are bored with the lot they are stuck with. Old players that are used to the game, surrounded by other experienced players, have totally forgotten what a new player experience is like, and likely have no idea what it is like now. You have friends in game? good for you! The majority of people trying DU won't have anyone! Those players are stuck with , pick up some rocks, doing some boring missions, and don't even think about industry, the ore they would use is more valuable then the T1-T2 crap they can produce. I am sure many of us can say with certainty that if we had not happened to stumble into a good group back in the beginning of Beta, we wouldn't have stuck with the game even then. Now the situation is 10x worse for new players because it's not a thriving community of players all trying to get their footing in the game, it's just a small self contained group that still enjoy it in their own orgs doing their own thing, a small group of disgruntled vets, and a barren wasteland of nothingness. 

 

Everyone that is comfortably in a group in DU and has played for some time is more then happy to layout the 'progression' some scrub newbie should go through. Why wouldn't they be? They don't have to do it. We all got EASY MODE start in the game. We were able to play with every aspect of the game at whatever pace we decided to. We could mine ore anywhere if we got the itch to do XYZ, we could dabble in or do industry to our hearts content (I had a fairly robust factory going in 2 days of heavy playing brand new), we could experiment with ship mechanics casually because chances are we all made the parts ourselves for only the cost of time to grab the ore. None of these are true now for new players. Everything is gated, time locked, or limited in some way.

 

The hubris of vets in the game is amazing. Games are a business, and so help me if people can't understand the simple mechanic that if a new player is cut off from the game for more then a certain period of time without something to occupy them or progress in they will quit.

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Well said @Xennial

 

Many of us get this, some don't

NQ seems to be one of the same unfortunately as they keep making it harder and harder for new players to get a foothold in the game.

 

Currently, unless new players get a massive amount of help from existing players or orgs, they are simply stuck for a few months before they really get anywhere. They have to invest millions upon millions of quanta to even stay alive, never mind progress. And NQ seems to deliberately design the game this way which simply baffles me.

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11 hours ago, Xennial said:

 

The highlighted bit right here is why DU fails to attract new players. This mentality that lone new players deserve to be chained to their sanctuary tile till they 'grind' enough low hanging fruit to deserve to get off it is ass backwards. Ya know what that new player in your scenario that should just sit on their Sanctuary tile for 1-3 months to come back in a 'proper hauler' will actually do? THEY QUIT. Join an org you say? So the new player tries that only to discover that majority of orgs out there are empty with almost no one playing. They go into chat only to discover people talking about aspects of the game they have no idea about while mostly bashing the game. Maaaybe some old guard takes pity on them and puts them under their wing to try and get them settled into the game. I have done this a few times, and it's extremely time consuming, and thats only if the new player is comfortable with voice coms. Most players just can't be bothered to throw these new players more then a sentence or two of what they should try next. 

 

You don't win new players by gating them behind such a huge progression curve they never get to see what the game has to offer before they are bored with the lot they are stuck with. Old players that are used to the game, surrounded by other experienced players, have totally forgotten what a new player experience is like, and likely have no idea what it is like now. You have friends in game? good for you! The majority of people trying DU won't have anyone! Those players are stuck with , pick up some rocks, doing some boring missions, and don't even think about industry, the ore they would use is more valuable then the T1-T2 crap they can produce. I am sure many of us can say with certainty that if we had not happened to stumble into a good group back in the beginning of Beta, we wouldn't have stuck with the game even then. Now the situation is 10x worse for new players because it's not a thriving community of players all trying to get their footing in the game, it's just a small self contained group that still enjoy it in their own orgs doing their own thing, a small group of disgruntled vets, and a barren wasteland of nothingness. 

 

Everyone that is comfortably in a group in DU and has played for some time is more then happy to layout the 'progression' some scrub newbie should go through. Why wouldn't they be? They don't have to do it. We all got EASY MODE start in the game. We were able to play with every aspect of the game at whatever pace we decided to. We could mine ore anywhere if we got the itch to do XYZ, we could dabble in or do industry to our hearts content (I had a fairly robust factory going in 2 days of heavy playing brand new), we could experiment with ship mechanics casually because chances are we all made the parts ourselves for only the cost of time to grab the ore. None of these are true now for new players. Everything is gated, time locked, or limited in some way.

 

The hubris of vets in the game is amazing. Games are a business, and so help me if people can't understand the simple mechanic that if a new player is cut off from the game for more then a certain period of time without something to occupy them or progress in they will quit.

 

I get your frustrations I didnt design the new player experience tho I am pointing out the best ways to go forward in the system. 

 

It was a brutal experience when I started and I am sure it is like 10 times worse now without being able to mine voxel based ore that sped up the process of getting off santuary since its now turned into like some kind of debter prison slave mining colony sim for new players.

 

I have been saying for a long time now that they need to fix the new player experience since Sanctuary essentially is a dead moon and that NQ should just spawn you directlying into a random open tile on alioth as close as possible to a market with a hut, industry, mining op, a speeder, and a xs hauler with a medium box, and start the game from there. Then on top of it give new players a handicap of T5 talents to learn the game where the buff drops a Tier per week since it will take 4-5 weeks to really get the hang of the game so by the time you are ready to really dig into the game you are properly prepared.

 

There is no reason to treat new players the way NQ does. New player retention is abysmal and incentivized by existing players in order to get "exclusive" skins through a pyramid scheme with free game time for promoting the game through the recruit a friend program. Or the Du curious as Pann often says. Any other MMO welcomes new players with all sorts of rewards, things to do and holds little to nothing back. NQ tries to put you into a sleeper choke hold from the moment you spawn in.

 

Much of this game needs to be streamlined starting with the new player experience.

 

But even helping new players out typically is not enough to help player retention even if you give people a leg up. The amount of pointless grind in this game makes it as such that most people get bored and leave. We actually built a graveyard to remember all our fallen brothers and sisters who fell from the grind. At least someone will remember their efforts even if NQ does not care at all.

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There is no problem assembling a ship that can carry 60 tons. In your rock nanopack, you can make such ships in 1 or 2 pm.

And you do not need to pay tax immediately after the claim, in order to claim you need to pay 500,000 quanta, and the claim already has payment for 3 days in advance, so you don't need to pay anything extra. 500,000 quanta are earned even without doing anything, for the entrance. 3-4 days.
 

And also do not forget that beginners, before going anywhere, if they play solo, will receive starting resources, etc. on Sanctuary. So no one is forcing him to run at breakneck speed to clasp something. A person may well collect 20 million quanta and then hit the road.
 

In general, I do not see any such serious problems with this.
 

And I would also like to ask, do you even play the game? And that was not much confused by not knowing about paying taxes. And the forum is trying to suck out any available problems that NQ did not take into account. Although why are you doing this? Some times i start thinking you guys here make more and more harder everything then is real

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On 12/5/2021 at 6:54 AM, Warlander said:

 

Oh I get it Jake. But its not nearly as bad as you say.

 

You get 150,000h per day and 1,050,000h per week free.

You get 5 HQ tiles, 1 free sanctuary tile and potentially another free mining tile per week for 7 free tiles if you log in every day.

 

On top of that in order to make a ship to haul it just takes:

  • XS Dynaic Core = 1,284h or S Dynamic core = 21,087h
  • 1 L container = 340,000h
  • 4 hoverpad L's = 33,675 ea or 134,700h total
  • 6 M adjustors = 5694h ea or 34,164h total
  • 4-6 Wing M's = 37,491h ea 149,964-224,946 total
  • Hover Chair seat = 4,999
  • Atmo fuel tank M = 32,471h
  • 2 Atmo Brake L = 37,000h ea or 74,000h total
  • 1 basic atmospheric Engine L = 80,000h
  • Total 584,580h.

This is a game of choices and there is nothing saying you should have a territory scanner right off the bat. Getting a hauler going for 600k-h is easy to start hauling with no effort but like 4 days of loging into the game with 5 HQ tiles and even if you drop another tile for industry and MUs the least of your concerns are what is produced in the tile at that stage of the game.

 

With just 5 charges for MUs with no exp you can get like 20kl-25kl worth of ore playing the minigame. Lets say that ore is coal for an example you can do ever 2 days at 40h p/l you make an additional 1mil h every two days at current market rate. Seeing as you can do that 3.5 times a week you get 3.5 mil a week on top of the 1,050,000h just logging into the game. You can almost buy a scanner with just the mini games in the first week not including the 84kl you make per week with just a 500 l/h standard tile they would likely drop in. seeing as youll likely get T1 dropping blind plus drop cost you will likely make around 3 mil in just what the MUs produce on their own.

 

The other factor is they can mine rocks on top of that and just mining rocks for two hours netted me about 30kl in random ores that netted me roughly another 4mil+. So its not like new players dont have options or that a lot of stuff can be made inefficiently in the nanocrafter if they dont flat out buy it from the market.

 

Nothing is unobtainable within a week with little to no effort with demeter. And there has never been a point in DU that the game just handed you everything right off the bat that didnt require choosing what you wanted to improve and making hard decisions.

 

The other factor nobody talks about is that every time you play and ace the mini game the more MUs are able to mine from the territory in terms of L/h. Some of our S miners are now pulling 150+ l/h and our L's are now sitting at a top end of 250 l/h. So you dont need a lot of MUs as much as acing the mini game.

Also good for you counting.. but almost all this things can make in nanopack from stone on the surface for 1-2 evening gameplay .. so yes.. i agree no any problem here.

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On 12/4/2021 at 2:31 AM, Jake Arver said:

 

Without a territory scanner it is impossible to know if a tile is worth investing in and paying 1.5 million to find out is really the only option if you do not (yet) fly around with one.

 

Mining requires a static construct, which in turn requires a claimed tile. To claim a tile and start mining you need to pay 1.5 million. Money which you may find is a waste as the tile does not have the resources to pay for taxes.

 

Unless I am mistakes, a new tile must have it's cost of 500K and the taxes for the week at 1M quanta paid in advance before you can even place a mining unit.

So add a ship capable of carrying a territory scanner to the list of prerequisites to find a tile worth paying for.. 

 

Also, good luck selling ore for any kind of measurable profit.  I'm sitting on 2m units of Chromite that I mined right before the MU's dropped, and I've watch the price per unit tank by over 75% since then.  Right about to dip below 100/unit.  Can't pay taxes if nobody is buying ore. 

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On 12/4/2021 at 4:31 AM, Jake Arver said:

 

Without a territory scanner it is impossible to know if a tile is worth investing in and paying 1.5 million to find out is really the only option if you do not (yet) fly around with one.

 

Mining requires a static construct, which in turn requires a claimed tile. To claim a tile and start mining you need to pay 1.5 million. Money which you may find is a waste as the tile does not have the resources to pay for taxes.

 

Unless I am mistakes, a new tile must have it's cost of 500K and the taxes for the week at 1M quanta paid in advance before you can even place a mining unit.

So add a ship capable of carrying a territory scanner to the list of prerequisites to find a tile worth paying for.. 

 

Not to mention you only get so many mini game charges to even jump start the MUs initially that you get 5-10 every 35-40 hours to even get the potential to even make money that also drops in 48 hours as your taxes are due for the first 3 day tax payment that you dont even get a week to cover.

 

So with the efficiency drops you end up getting even less ore than you thought before taxes and it requires multiple tiles to get enough ore to do anything with and you only get so many charges in addition to core limits to get ops going if before the patch you used them all building a base or ships or both.

 

Team that up with limited charges dropping efficiency rates, a flooded ore market for anything T3 and below and you have a recipe for disaster since everything over T3 is too rare with the price flux.

Edited by Warlander
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