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Self-Destruction - KA-BOUM!!!!! - Last Resort for Unarmed Ships Under Attack to Prevent Looting


Hirnsausen
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I love the idea of a self-destruction mechanism that can be installed on unarmed ships! Such self-detonation would be the lsst resort of a ship crew tto prevent the ship or its cargo to fall into the hands of pirates.

Not each ship can have such a self-destruction mechanism as this mechanism is incompatible with some of the sub systems of weapons. But ships that have no weapons and maybe just shield defense can have such a mechanism.

he resulting self destruction would destroy ship, cargo, and the lifes of all persons onboard, but also resulting in an explosion that affects a wide range of space, equally destroying any other friendly or hostile vessels, cargo, and lifes within that zone. Nothing remains. Nothing that can be repaired or captured.

Basically, such a self-destruct mechanism needs to follow some rules:
- it can be installed on unarmed vessels only
- it cannot be ignited if there is no armed ship around
- it cannot be ignited if tha ship was not being fired upon before

Such a device will bring some more needed balance into the PVP part of the game, as now unarmed ships have a way to take attackers with them into death.

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As PVP is now a suicide for all those that cannot match. And fact is, most cannot match the almighty organization "LEGION" that dominates the Unsafe Zone.

My idea turns turns the unbalanceness of the current situation. Besides, PVP guys told me in another thread, that it is disappointing to attack unarmed ships, that they prefer armed ships, for the challenge.  And my suggestion would be available for unarmed ships only, so PVP guys can still have all their PVP. I do not see there a big conflict, really.

Only a few PVPers are not disappoinrted going after unarmed ships, and only those few would be fully affected as you other PVP guys, based on your own comments, prefer the challenge of going after armed ships without that self-destruction device.. Also: who said that the aggressor always must win? A self-destruction device adds in a truly pleasant way to the challenge of PVP and to game balance, and my understanding of you PVP guys is that you love the challenge. Remember, the majority of you PVP guys prefers armed ships and nothing wrong with that, those won't contain that self-destruction device.. But a game lives from balance.
 

Quote

Zeddrick said: " In fact, for most PvPers, unarmed ships are something of a disappointment but we'll take it anyway if it's on offer."




Quoted from this thread:

 

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What decon is saying is. if you had such a self destruct mechanism. You would have people flying around to do exactly that. Even against other civ ships and against other PVP ships.  

 

You see a large enemy fleet. Just pop in and self destruct, take out an entire fleet.  You take your cheap little cargo ship to an asteroid to mine it. Enemy shows up to stop you. you blow yours and thiers down. You see someone hualing some goods across the system. you pop in with a cheap ship and destroy both ships and there cargo. 

 

Basically any system that would destroy someone elses ship will be used to grief. I see what your intentions are, but it would just turn into a grief mechanic. 

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Naaaaa, you're now too afraid, my PVP friend. Yes, it would add more needed balance, but it would not destroy an entire fleet. But then again, why would an entire PVP fleet attack an unarmed vessel? I admit, I do not understand that example you are giving. But I understand your deep-rooted panic that the unarmed ships you are attacking now finally could be a slightly more challenging target. So, here are some extra rules for such a device.

Basically, such a self-destruct mechanism needs to follow some rules:
- it can be installed on unarmed vessels only
- it cannot be ignited if there is no armed ship around
- it cannot be ignited if tha ship was not being fired upon before

Now you should feel much better.

I am adding these rules to the initial posting.

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  • Hirnsausen changed the title to Self-Destruction - KA-BOUM!!!!! - Last Resort for Unarmed Ships Under Attack to Prevent Looting
18 hours ago, Draqolas said:

I think it's a bad idea, people would make kamikaze ships and ignore weapons.



Did you read the deails of my suggesion?
How would it be possible to use a ship as kamikaze ship? Please le me know, then I can tell you where you are wrong.

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I suggest making some slightly  lesser value asteroids available in the safe zone, and the more exotic ones in the PvP area.  That way, non-PvPers can still make money and gather resources, while those who want the exotics can arm themselves and see what they can do.  A self destruct device would unbalance the game IMO.

 

I'd love to mine some asteroids, but I'm not interested in PvP.

 

Thanks for reading!

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Thanks for your opinion, Zoldos.,

I believe, a self-destruction device (SDD) would give more balance, as a number of unarmed ships have now a chance to take a number of pirates with them into the nex life. With oher words, death is now potentially on both sides. And that is balance. Wihout SDD, deatth and loss is always only on one side, and that imbalance is not fair. With a SDD, pirates are now also at risk.  Like in real life, where Somali Pirates risk a lot when attacking huge, slow, unarmed cargo ships - those have watter cannons and use them to try sinking Somali Pirate speedboats.

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7 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

Did you read the deails of my suggesion?
How would it be possible to use a ship as kamikaze ship? Please le me know, then I can tell you where you are wrong.

EZ:

get a mate with a gun on another ship. fly to your enemies. tank those two ships for good. let your mate shoot you and activate the device to suicide kill everyone.

 

6 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

I believe, a self-destruction device (SDD) would give more balance, as a number of unarmed ships have now a chance to take a number of pirates with them into the nex life. With oher words, death is now potentially on both sides. And that is balance. Wihout SDD, deatth and loss is always only on one side, and that imbalance is not fair. With a SDD, pirates are now also at risk.  Like in real life, where Somali Pirates risk a lot when attacking huge, slow, unarmed cargo ships - those have watter cannons and use them to try sinking Somali Pirate speedboats.

you can already arm your ships (THAT would be balance - as said in the other crappy idea thread, but you obviously can't answer there too). If you would have friends flying with you or if you would ARM your ships then pirates would also be at risk....in a more balanced way then this idea would suggest

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Naaaaa, arming is something I am not going into. I am not playing at your rules, just to satisfy you. We stick to the SDD.

But you are right with your first statement. It will be up to NQ to fine-tune the usage rules of the SSD. Because you was right, I gave a deserved Blue Heart to your comment.

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1 hour ago, Hirnsausen said:

Naaaaa, arming is something I am not going into. I am not playing at your rules, just to satisfy you. We stick to the SDD

yes, because that would be FAIR and your idea is just broken and unfair - that's why you like it more

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22 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

I believe, a self-destruction device (SDD) would give more balance, as a number of unarmed ships have now a chance to take a number of pirates with them into the nex life. With oher words, death is now potentially on both sides. And that is balance. Wihout SDD, deatth and loss is always only on one side, and that imbalance is not fair. With a SDD, pirates are now also at risk.  Like in real life, where Somali Pirates risk a lot when attacking huge, slow, unarmed cargo ships - those have watter cannons and use them to try sinking Somali Pirate speedboats.

 

I do see what you are saying and I respect your thoughts and ideas.  But I tend to also agree with some of the others here in that, if you want to PvP, then arm your ship.  If not, stick to the safe zone.

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10 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

Well, people, then help to develop the rules that prevent exploiation. I ry my best to creatte suggestions to end he exploitations of unarmed players by PVP. So, join the train!

EZ:

 

allow for self destruction with a timer to kill your own ship (and only your ship) to deny pirates the loot.

 

If you want to actually harm other ships then use what is in the game already - weapons

 

All we will get from you now in response will be again "mimimimimimimimimimimimimi I'm right, pirates are bad and should face RL violence"

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On 10/7/2021 at 1:35 AM, Lethys said:

you can already arm your ships (THAT would be balance - as said in the other crappy idea thread, but you obviously can't answer there too). If you would have friends flying with you or if you would ARM your ships then pirates would also be at risk....in a more balanced way then this idea would suggest

 

I agree.  That's why there is a safe zone. If someone is that upset about PvP, don't go to that zone.

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The idea with the timer is a possibility. I see self-destruction timers in other games, too. Their delays would allow some ships to escape, but not all. The same could be done inside DU. But for sure they have to be able to catch some of the aggressors, otherwise hey would fail to bring some balance into the game. I of course understand that PVP lovers do not like any risks of ship loss on their own side, but hat is how PVP is: risky. If they don't like the idea of a shared risk, they should stick to the Safe Zone.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/7/2021 at 10:34 PM, Hirnsausen said:

Well, people, then help to develop the rules that prevent exploiation. I ry my best to creatte suggestions to end he exploitations of unarmed players by PVP. So, join the train!

Game already have two mechanics to prevent it:
1) stay in safe zone
2) arm your ship

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I would love it if you could ram another ship with your ship and cause damage to both ships. Of course, if you fly into a large L-Core with an XS-s ship, the L-Core should only have light damage, but if 20 smaller ships fly into an L-Core, it should be noticeably heavy damage. Indispensable as another war mechanic.

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5 hours ago, Zarcata said:

I would love it if you could ram another ship with your ship and cause damage to both ships. Of course, if you fly into a large L-Core with an XS-s ship, the L-Core should only have light damage, but if 20 smaller ships fly into an L-Core, it should be noticeably heavy damage. Indispensable as another war mechanic.

Sounds great. I wanns see how 20 cheap ships ram mission ship when it trying to fly from planet

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Self destruction is just being a sore loser because you went into the PvP zone, where it sounds like you don't really belong, you got caught and you don't want the other side to benefit from the work of catching you.

 

But NQ are trying to force people into the PvP zone who don't want to be there. The asteroids with the good ore are out there. You can't go looking for them in the planets once the patch lands.

 

The response of just arm your ship isn't realistic though. Pirates are skilled to the max in the weapon talents where non PvP aren't. PvP have ships designed for chasing and killing. A heavy hauler can't compete or escape these. So yes,  a hauler who gets discovered is screwed, no arming won't help them.

 

So I feel the pain for the PvE players (which I am), but I still don't believe you should be able to take away everything that a PvP player (which I'm not) as hunted for.

 

My solution is different to yours.

 

Jettison device. If you have a jettison element installed, it has so many charges (probably based on size) and you can use them to start jettisoning cargo or ship elements etc.. The jettison containers kind of act like a small core with a container attached. They act independently to the ship construct. They can be tracked using your map construct menu. Only difference is that if they aren't collected in a week they are gone (or broadcast I suppose). 

 

How would this work?

 

- If you are being chased you can start jettisoning cargo and elements.

- They fly off in a random direction away from your ship.

- Now the pirates have to actually make a decision, do they want to keep chasing you and the ship and what is left of your cargo. If this is the case then if you die you can latter try to locate your jettisoned cargo and get it back. If the pirates keep chasing you, the cargo quickly goes out of range in a different direction and they lose that.

- If the pirates chase your jettisoned items then odds are by the time they catch up with them and retrieve them; you have escaped radar contact and got free.

 

Naturally the problem is deciding how much to ditch. And the pirates have to decide if you are bluffing and firing off empty pods; or if you are panicking and throwing your cargo to collect latter.

 

It all of a sudden means getting caught isn't necessary a total loss. It means the pirates actually get to work for their loot rather than finding a hauler, locking  on and waiting until it is destroyed. Could even add a new mission type of retrieve pod if you don't want to go back to PvP space, or you need to sell the cargo to be able to afford to replace your ship.

 

 

TLDR;

 - self destruct no, sore loser

 - jettison mechanism to make the pirates decide to chase you or what you may be trying to fire off for collection latter, not both.

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