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LEGION has won DU


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5 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

Someone here once said DU is the "you just do not understand" company

 

A "company" is a corporate organization. What does it mean to incorporate? Starting a sole-proprietorship means you register and operate a business under your name or a DBA, which means you are fully liable for it. If you get into a partnership, the general partner is liable. People can get together and consolidate their investments to start a limited liable corporation, that is what a "company" means. An incorporation (Inc.) means a fully liable business has been incorporated, so therefore it is now a corporation with plural shareholders.

 

The problem that I'm trying to bring up here is the issue with shares. A company has many shareholders (investors). It's way too risky to invest in something that has no protection. Incorporating doesn't work! What you call a "share" is a claim! How can I assert that? You can't! Like I said, we got no platform to do that! 

 

To give you the reality, it doesn't work! And here is the game forcing you to incorporate!

 

You will get automatic mining unit in this game, the industry is automatic and all you got to do is feed it with materials, and retailing is automatic -- you can solo this game with those leverage! Who would want to be an employee when everybody in this game has an equity (as they can all mine with their own equipment on their personal and unclaimed tiles) and they receive 150K of ayuda (financial assistance) everyday. Only an idiot would want to be an employee on a condition like this! They all have the ability individually to employ and support themselves, so why would they work for anybody as an employee? Everyone should be an entrepreneur! Why? Because they all have the ability to generate income out of their own resources! If you can do that, you are a successful entrepreneur, which is easy to do for everybody! Do you have to make any ends meet? Nope, that's why income level doesn't matter on a game that has no survival! 

 

As far as equitable system is concerned, none of these things work! You can play in a group inequitably, I won't, and I will play something else with a sense of equity! I ain't playing a game of slave!

 

They failed to factor this game for the individual! I mean look at the basic unit of land in this game? It is 1 Km². That is the size of a financial center! If you just made it 5,000 m² and let them agglomerate into an urbanization with no government, this game would have realistically worked! 1 Km² for each player is too big to agglomerate together (30 tiles in this game in a line is just 30 player properties but 30 Km long. It will take you 40+ minutes to traverse that by foot. That is equivalent to travelling inter-city in real-life for just 30 player properties), which means the org will acquire the 1 km² and everyone will centrally live in it! So we are back here again with shares which does not work!

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19 hours ago, Eternal said:

 

A "company" is a corporate organization. What does it mean to incorporate? Starting a sole-proprietorship means you register and operate a business under your name or a DBA, which means you are fully liable for it. If you get into a partnership, the general partner is liable. People can get together and consolidate their investments to start a limited liable corporation, that is what a "company" means. An incorporation (Inc.) means a fully liable business has been incorporated, so therefore it is now a corporation with plural shareholders.

 

The problem that I'm trying to bring up here is the issue with shares. A company has many shareholders (investors). It's way too risky to invest in something that has no protection. Incorporating doesn't work! What you call a "share" is a claim! How can I assert that? You can't! Like I said, we got no platform to do that! 

 

To give you the reality, it doesn't work! And here is the game forcing you to incorporate!

 

You will get automatic mining unit in this game, the industry is automatic and all you got to do is feed it with materials, and retailing is automatic -- you can solo this game with those leverage! Who would want to be an employee when everybody in this game has an equity (as they can all mine with their own equipment on their personal and unclaimed tiles) and they receive 150K of ayuda (financial assistance) everyday. Only an idiot would want to be an employee on a condition like this! They all have the ability individually to employ and support themselves, so why would they work for anybody as an employee? Everyone should be an entrepreneur! Why? Because they all have the ability to generate income out of their own resources! If you can do that, you are a successful entrepreneur, which is easy to do for everybody! Do you have to make any ends meet? Nope, that's why income level doesn't matter on a game that has no survival! 

 

As far as equitable system is concerned, none of these things work! You can play in a group inequitably, I won't, and I will play something else with a sense of equity! I ain't playing a game of slave!

 

They failed to factor this game for the individual! I mean look at the basic unit of land in this game? It is 1 Km². That is the size of a financial center! If you just made it 5,000 m² and let them agglomerate into an urbanization with no government, this game would have realistically worked! 1 Km² for each player is too big to agglomerate together (30 tiles in this game in a line is just 30 player properties but 30 Km long. It will take you 40+ minutes to traverse that by foot. That is equivalent to travelling inter-city in real-life for just 30 player properties), which means the org will acquire the 1 km² and everyone will centrally live in it! So we are back here again with shares which does not work!

Please stop explaining you are taxing the servers with your walls of text. Too many deltas need to disable mining and remove your sound till fixed.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think, the initial posting just shows a huge amount of egotism, and nothing else. Legion is known to consist of folks that are strong and good in PVP (destroying what others have built) but obviously extremely weak in real character maturity. Most of us nomal players feel kinda sorry for those beings. We envy their destructuve skills, though. But, honestly, on a human side I do not expect much from any of them.

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4 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

I think, the initial posting just shows a huge amount of egotism, and nothing else. Legion is known to consist of folks that are strong and good in PVP (destroying what others have built) but obviously extremely weak in real character maturity. Most of us nomal players feel kinda sorry for those beings. We envy their destructuve skills, though. But, honestly, on a human side I do not expect much from any of them.

I don't know you, you don't know me, why are you insulting us?

Legion does PvP in a video game that has a PvP area for PvP players to practice PvP in.

I'm curious to see how far your ignorance goes, so I invite you to contact us so that you can come and see our facilities  and realize the magnitude of the things these people which you call "destroyer" have built.

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I give you the Blue Heart (Like) because I of course appreciate your feedback. I always appreciate feedbacks even if they are contrary to my own opinion.

But I am standing to what I said before. You guys just make it next to impossible for normal guys like me to do some occasional mining of T3 to T5 ore, It's like you consider all of that space and ore is yours alone. Many of us just don't like war and destrution and killing as you do for some reasons unknown to normal people. We, too, want to build in magnitudes and let our our own creativity which we have thrive,, not just you alone. Fact is, you disable most of us, for no other reason than just your egotism and need to have fun and magnitude on the cost )destruction of possibilities) of many others.

So, it is very true what I said initially. Pure egotism. This is not even an insult (so don't get emotional), it is really just the fact.

As sad as it is.

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There was an idea recently that Legion could declare a fixed monthly event to strengthen the DU community and generally allow all players to progress.
The idea was that Legion would open up asteroid mining to all players once a month and even protect the players participating there so that they could actually mine ores. (We know in general that not only Legion has a tendency to shoot everything down, but other players as well).

Advantage:
- Asteroids would be safely usable by all players.
- All players who participate can fill up their ore stocks and build replacement ships from them to participate in "PvP".
- The community becomes stronger through such events and friendships may also develop from them. It is certainly easier for many to understand if we all get to know each other in the game, rather than just insulting each other through some kind of prejudice.
- The amount of ore in the game will increase because the asteroids could really be exploited more by so many players. At the moment there are so many leftovers, it's just a waste.
- Legion could possibly have fun with this, as there will certainly be some PvP players who want to "disrupt" this event.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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6 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

I give you the Blue Heart (Like) because i of course appreciate your feedback. I always appreciate feedbacks even if they are oppsoing my own opinion.

But I am standing to what I said before. You guys just make it net to impossible for normal guys like me to do some occasional mining of T3 to T5 ore, it is like you consider all of that is yours alone. many of us just don't like war and destrution and killing as you do for some reasons unknown to normal people. We, too, want to build on magnitudes and let our our own creativity which we have, not just you alone. Fact is, you disable most of us, for no other reason thatn just your egotism and need to have fun on the cost of many others.

So, it is very true what I said initially. Pure egotism. This is not even an insult (so don't get emotional), it is really just the fact.

As sad as it is.

I give you the Blue Heart (Like) because i of course appreciate your feedback. I always appreciate feedbacks even if they are oppsoing my own opinion.

 

You guys just make it net to impossible for PVP guys like me to do some occasional miner hunting, it is like you consider all of that is yours alone. many of us just don't like mining and building and trading as you do for some reasons unknown to normal people. We, too, want to fight on magnitudes and let our our own creativity which we have, not just you alone. Fact is, you disable most of us, for no other reason thatn just your egotism and need to have fun on the cost of many others.

So, it is very true what I said initially. Pure egotism. This is not even an insult (so don't get emotional), it is really just the fact.

As sad as it is.

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LETHYS

You just copy from others. Not much creativity there, but then again, you are a PVP guy.
I still understand what you try to say, despite that you are not right.

I wouldn't mind iof PVP guys fight PVP guys, having their epic battles among themselves. Sure, why not? Fighting an equal, that is a real challenge.

But fighting, destroying, killing people who are no match? Come on, thatis not your level. Or is it? That would be a new low.

ZARCATA

Yes, that idea is interesting, I admit that. 🙂
But then again, it would just show how much we all would depend on the "mercy" and good will of those PVP guys to use "their space". And only ONE single time in a full month. Fact is, that is not their space, not their game, but our all space and resources. We should not, NEVER even, treat those PVP guys like the owners of anything. Let PVP guys fight PVP guys. But not us normal, peaceful humans.
What do you think about my view of the things?

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16 minutes ago, Hirnsausen said:

What do you think about my view of the things?

I think there are different types of PvP.
- Fair PvP as a kind of competition
- unfair PvP in the form of ganking (was that translated correctly?)

Legion, but also others, unfortunately don't just shoot at real PvPers or heavily armed serious opponents, but mainly at everything that flies around in their vicinity, even if the miner's ship doesn't have any weapons at all - so it's not a source of danger.

So far, real PvP battles are more likely to be prepared, i.e. bait is used to attract "real" opponents - but only if a whole army is sent as a hidden reserve in case something goes wrong or the opponent is underestimated. 

From their point of view, many want to present it as if it were just a game and fun, but that usually stops when their own goal is not achieved.

I think that if it is supposed to be fun as a game, then it should be fun for all participants and not just one-sided. For me, it's not a fair competition if you shoot unarmed people and then brag about it.  

Conclusion: 
Fair fights among PvP players, very much so, then the construction method, the interaction and the skill should decide.
Fighting against unarmed people just to rob them because they are easy, defenceless victims - sorry, that's toddler level.

Legion and space: Of course space is there for all of us, but it is a PvP zone without rules. (You can also shoot each other, not only the enemy) Current problem: Legion contains almost all PvP players, whereas the mass of DU players are generally peaceful PVE players who just want to build great things.

So question: Do PvE players even need to go through the PvP zone or to the asteroids to do their building - or would other materials suffice? If no PvEer would fly there anymore, the PvP players would get even more bored and maybe go back to Eve online. 

 

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ZARCATA

I share your opinion in all points.

 

I could imagine epic PVP battles between the PVP organizations, and those would happen at a fixed day and time and everyone interested could be there in observation ships and enjoy the spectacle. Spectators and their observation ships should not be harmed.

In fact, there should be a feature that allows to mak another organization (and thus all their ships and players) as ENEMY, and those would automatically be marked as such in the HUD. This way, PVP guys can avoid shooting normal people and their ships.

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In a nutshell. PvP is not fair and will not be fair.

Protect you beloved and your friends. Stab your enemys and take everything they have.

 

The imagination that pvp space is fair is very optimistic on your side.

 

"Don't fly something in pvp space you can't reimburse"

If you fly in pvp space without weapon and you insist that you should be not shot at because of that, you are a ******.

 

Kids, have you never played any kind of pvp game?

 

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15 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

Aren't you hearing yourself saying all that?  It shows in a shocking way, how normal destructioin and unfairness have become to folks like you.


It is this way of thinking, why we normal people look down to you.

Who are these "normal" people you are talking about?

This is a game. In which you are perfectly fine in the safe zone.

You are trying to draw conclusions from in-game actions to the actual person which is playing a game. And that is an extremely weird thing to do in my opinion.

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Which is why i think the PVP in DU is broken and should be reworked or removed.
It's not a  pvp game and it's not going to work.
Game was build as PVE game and they added PVP without though as core element.
This result in terrible experience from anyone who do not belong to big organised PVP group, because every normal group knows they will be blown to pieces by vastly outnumbered and outgunned group.
Reminds me of the Idiana Jones scene when he shot a guy with knife.

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Woukld be helpful if ships can only attack armed ships. So they get their destruction, while unarmed ships can do mining. That should be totally okay for PVP guys, as they love confrontation and destruction. So, let them have their confrontation and destruction among themselves.   😄

If they are really just abput PVP, this should be okay for them.

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1 hour ago, Hirnsausen said:

Woukld be helpful if ships can only attackarmed ships. So they get their destruction, while unarmed ships can do mining. That should be totally okay for PVP guys, as they love confrontation and destruction. So, let them have their confrontation and destruction among themselves.   😄

If they are really just abput PVP, this should be okay for them.

 

No, no and no.

 

If you don't want PvP don't go to the PvP zone.


There is a gigantic safe zone which was expressly created for this.

If people go out into the unarmed PvP zone it is THEIR problem, not this of the game.

 

The ore that we harvest in PvP zone costs us extremely more expensive than that which can be harvested in PvE zone. We are spending tens / hundreds of millions in quanta / playing time to have PvP ships to defend against pirates. We cannot let people freely mine without making this effort, it is unfair competition.
Someone so unlovable and condescending that you will have to understand this.

 

DUAL UNIVERSE is an initially PvP game. Yes, PvE has to see its place. But it's not YOUR game.

You have the right to play the role of victim but stop cry like a child.

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No it's PVE game with added PVP mechanics.
Remove PVP period.
You can't tell me that Eve online combat mechanics are appropriate for spacesim like DU.
It's just stupid from NQ to adapt that kind of combat in game like this.
Remove freaking pvp untill they decide to actually spend time on adding it properly.
I just want to go and mine in peace on asteroids, and i don't want to give a crap about grievers.
Want pvp game go play apex or pubg or other game with pvp as main focus.
Prove me i'm wrong but if u spend 99% of ur time on doing pve just to do 1% of ur time pvp, then something is wrong with ur game.

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The Safezone is massive and you can do everything in it that is in game (apart from pvp), i never understand why people who don't want to PvP complain about the PvP zone and want them to remove it. 

 

It feels a lot like the boy who wants to take his ball home after not getting his own way. 

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Dual Universe is a free-for-all completely player-driven group-based PVP MMO if that is what they want to develop the game to be! That is how the real-world works except we learned how to put ourselves in order by having social standards and upholding them through conservatism and discipline. If we are all gonna have to work together and interact with each other, we must be able to maintain good relationship with one another. This is what a developed society has! This game however has absence of it! We have a disordered society on what is naturally a disordered world! We don't have any developed culture! 

 

This game started out way back then when the org directory was created and a bunch of random people were recruiting for numbers like revolutionists. That is how our society is in this game from the beginning until now! That is a patron system! 

 

The game sucks that I quit! You will throw us into a free-for-all world, ofcourse there will be people who will take advantage of others as we are hierarchal in nature. What is worse is we have this patron and supporter culture!

 

There is nothing developed in our society in this game! We don't even have any democracy because that is not possible in the game! Even if we managed to craft the foundation of it, there is no sovereignty! With no sovereignty, you can't have an official representative government! It's impossible! What we have are de facto organizations that have their legates and members. If you are not happy with that organization, you leave for another de facto organization or you solo the game! Patron and supporters in nature! Who will not quit if the game is like this? Personally, I would rather play an equitable MMO which is already proven in concept than this free-for-all group-based non-sense that doesn't even work!

 

Politics in the game doesn't work! How will it work when there is no sovereignty? The game is about patron and supporters de facto organizations that compete with each other for power in the form of number of supporters! Nothing matters in the game but that! Hard power and soft power is for the means of influence! It is a patron game!

 

Economy in the game also doesn't work and that is a different topic! I can expound on that, but the point is it doesn't work as well and it's never been proven!

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On 9/17/2021 at 1:56 AM, Hirnsausen said:

LETHYS

You just copy from others. Not much creativity there, but then again, you are a PVP guy.
I still understand what you try to say, despite that you are not right.

Mate, he played the uno reverse card on you. I was about to do the same to him but luckily I scrolled up a little and saved myself the embarrassment. 😅

 

Also, you know there's the quote button right? Just thought I'd ask. Quoting others directly sends them a notification that such has happened and is a great way to carry a discussion of sorts.

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15 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

 

We are spending tens / hundreds of millions in quanta / playing time to have PvP ships to defend against pirates.

 

DUAL UNIVERSE is an initially PvP game. Yes, PvE has to see its place.

 

If you build armed ships "because of the pirates", then use these armed ships against the pirates. Not against normal, nice people. I believe strongly, you do not speak the truth.

Wrong, little friend from outer space. Wrong. DU is not a PVP game. The PVP was just added despite that the core of the game was not about PVP. hat is why PVP is not optimized.

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