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LEGION has won DU


Turing
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On 9/19/2021 at 8:00 PM, Hirnsausen said:

PVP has nothing to do with any "right to take things away from others". I stand by my proposal: Only on armed ships it can be fired upon. If a ship is armed, that means the owner or crew wants to participate in PVP. I understand, that our strong, rough PVP "heros" are too afraid to attack armed ships only as that could mean a strong response and even loss of the own ship. But is that not what PVP is about? Destruction and loss? So, let 'em kill each other so they have their weird fun. But also, fill the Unsafe Zone with other dangerous challenges so it is not just weird PVP alone that can endanger ship and life.

That is the dumbest thing in this thread I have read so far. May as well just remove PVP altogether, and then shut the game down fully.

 

If you can't take a bloody nose, stay in the safezone.

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7 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

PVP for those who want it, but PVP must never be enforced on those who don't want it.

 

If only there were a special place in the game where PvP was not possible.  Then people who don't want to PvP could stay in that place and it would never be forced upon them.

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On 9/19/2021 at 11:28 PM, Hirnsausen said:

I am not a friend of that Somali Pirate way of looking at the things. No, PVP needs to be changed - only armed ships can be attacked. What is wrong with that? You get your destruction and killing, while unarmed ships can venture into dangers of other kinds. It is not you who makes the rules.

You can do as much PVP as you wish, as long as you do not harm players that do not wish to be attacked., who are going just for specoial ore that is in this area. So, if you're hero enough, brave enough, attack your kind. Too much challenge? Afraid of losing your ship? 😄

You make it sound like PvPers only want to attack unarmed ships.  In fact, for most PvPers, unarmed ships are something of a disappointment but we'll take it anyway if it's on offer.

You also make it sound like the only way to get T3-5 ore is to go into the PvP zone.  It isn't.  You can still get it from planets or you can buy it from the markets.  Perhaps mine some T2 (the market really needs Natron right now!), sell it and buy T3-5 with the money.

The T3-5 ore put there in the PvP zone is partly there to give PvPers something to fight over and partly there to entice people to take the risk and come out where the PvP players can shoot them.  It's a sort of reward.  What you want is to be able to grab that reward without participating in the intended purpose of asteroids, which is generating PvP encounters.  If you don't want to participate, get your ore somewhere else like you did before asteroids were introduced!

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3 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

 In fact, for most PvPers, unarmed ships are something of a disappointment but we'll take it anyway if it's on offer.


That is where you all are wrong. The quored sentence is showing the distortion of your thinking.

Unarmed ships are NOT an offer to you.

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5 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:


That is where you all are wrong. The quored sentence is showing the distortion of your thinking.

Unarmed ships are NOT an offer to you.

Yes they are if they're in the PvP zone.  The clue is in the name you see.  It's a PvP zone.  It's for PvP.  You go in it if you want to PvP and you don't if you don't.  It's not a hard concept and I don't think it needs complicating ...

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The biggest problem in this game in my opinion is they made it a free-for-all. The game is entirely player-driven and they designed the game structurally to be group-based. This means that we need to function as a society and interact with each other for particular purposes/activity. This kind of environment is more akin to real-life than typical MMORPGs -- it's highly competitive because the game is completely liberalized. A game that puts us in complete liberty, and then at the same time we have to cooperate, we are forced to be a part of society that is in nature will always be hierarchal. Social rank defines how much control we have in our society. We all want participation because that is what gives us purpose, and apparently you have to fight for that status in what is a hierarchal world. 

 

If you think construct vs construct PVP is a big problem, it is not because the game offers protection from it. My problem is the whole game is completely liberalized except for violence and it is just not fun because it is highly competitive for a game. I've played other traditional MMORPGs during the golden age and I've never experienced a game as liberal as this. Now that I did, it is a frustrating experience! Literally you took the complex social problems that we have in real-life into the game by completely liberalizing it!

 

I don't need to play Starbase to learn what I have learned here.

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6 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

 Why would I arm my ships if I am not willing to participate in your PVP actions? If I would arm my ship, that would mean I would agree to do PVP and to be violated. But I don't.

If you are not willing to participate in PVP, then:

Do

Not

Enter

The

PVP

Zone

Simple as that.

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Threads like these are so typical of DU. People have been having this debate about PvP for years and years and years now. 

 

The design of this game is rather horrible, and that's evidenced by the fact that conversions like these have been rehashed for years with nothing new to discuss.

 

PvPers insist PvP is part of the game and that's true -- but it also sucks as a feature. Enjoy being a gunner, enjoy the lag, enjoy the inherent asymmetry of combat and its boring mechanics overall.

 

Builders insist they shouldn't have to PvP, but they already don't have to -- it's like they don't want risk at all, not just that they find PvP boring/bad as a gameplay element. 

 

Blame NQ for a design that doesn't make sense.

 

"Sandbox builder" meets "free for all PvP" -- gee, who would've thought these two concepts are basically polar opposites that mix poorly...? Oh, right...many of the forum users for years and years and years

 

There's an old rule in game design about not mixing genres. Of all the genres to challenge this 'rule', melding 'sandbox builder' with 'free for all PvP' is obviously a horrible idea...the popularity of the game and endless debate about what PvP should be is pretty solid evidence to me that the concept of DU itself doesn't work. 

 

It would be a different story if ships were easy to regenerate, if PvP was actually fun or interesting, if either combat or the building aspects were adjusted a bit to work together -- but NQ doesn't really do the whole "game design" thing, so we are left with a game that fields inherently disjointed. 

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On 8/10/2021 at 9:33 PM, Turing said:

Legion has remained unchallenged in the asteroids, raiding all the exotics and most of the rares
mining hundreds of KL of t5 and even more t4
attacking any who dare try to scan for a single one

And no one can stop them

will any protagonist try to take the throne of DU?

Party_Hat.png

First up - anyone can mine high tier ores from roids, it is not difficult.  Who cares is some try hards get to them first, just go to them once they are discovered
Second - How do you win an open world MMO?
Third - How do you win a game that isnt launched yet?

Apart from that, great post, would read again

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18 hours ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

Threads like these are so typical of DU. People have been having this debate about PvP for years and years and years now. 

 

The design of this game is rather horrible, and that's evidenced by the fact that conversions like these have been rehashed for years with nothing new to discuss.

 

"Sandbox builder" meets "free for all PvP" -- gee, who would've thought these two concepts are basically polar opposites that mix poorly...? Oh, right...many of the forum users for years and years and years

 

There's an old rule in game design about not mixing genres. Of all the genres to challenge this 'rule', melding 'sandbox builder' with 'free for all PvP' is obviously a horrible idea...the popularity of the game and endless debate about what PvP should be is pretty solid evidence to me that the concept of DU itself doesn't work.

This isn't a Problem of Dual Universe or the genre mix, its a Problem with the Players themselves. Some want maximum challenge, like the PVPers, the others want all challenge removed, like certain people in this thread. These debates have spanned over many years, over all kinds of games.

 

Besides, no, this mix of genres works well. Just look at other games that mix those two, like Space Engineers and Empyrion.

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@Hirnsausen

 

the game already loose 75% of the community because PVP was too long to come (NQ first focus on the other 5 pillars before we have less than 20% of the PVP implemented)

 

Also other pillars  need PVP to work, for example
Economy, if your ship is eternal, you never have to buy a new one, economy is ruined
Social, 80% of the players interaction are link to PVP

 

And why a pure PVE boy would risk his ship in PVP zone, if you don't want to PVP juste don't go to PVP zone. 80% of the game content is accessible form PVE zone. You can farm T1/T2 ore, do Aphelia PVE transport missions, build, trade, sell etc...

 

Of course game need to have a bit of challenge if it doesn't want to die (without PVP community server population will be too low), and that's why there is PVP zone with T4/T5 material, so you have to interact with other players in game, to form up a defended cargo fleet, to pay someone for protection, or pay someone for informations (where to farm, when etc...), or buy it to someone.

You should really spend less time on forums and more time in game. This is an MMO, if you play solo you miss a large part of the content, like in every MMO
 

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On 9/28/2021 at 2:17 AM, decom70 said:

If you are not willing to participate in PVP, then:

Do

Not

Enter

The

PVP

Zone

Simple as that.

I like this, you are absolutely right. But by the same token. If you are flagged as a known pirate maybe you should be banned from the safe zones and markets. If you wish to be a marauder and pirate you should have to live like one. There should be consequences/risks for your piracy the same way you say there should be consequences/risks for entering a PVP zone. I would even take it a step further and say that as known pirate you should be K.O.S. ANYWHERE even in the safe zones. Lets be real. Pirates werent rolling into Boston Harbor or pulling up at the pier in London to run into the bar have an ale or two.

I keep hearing PVPers use the word "challenge" then when I see them in the PVP zones they are either  firing on a ship that gives them ZERO profit for the cost they are accruing, or they are ganging up 10 to 1 on another ship.  Then they talk about risk versus reward. They spend 10s of millions of quanta in ammo and repairs to take a ship that sold as a token for 1 million quanta. Be honest at least. It's not about risk versus reward, Its about stroking a pathetic ego in most cases. Or pounding on their chest on Twitch and Youtube.

PVP should have serious consequences too.

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5 minutes ago, The_Kurgan said:

I like this, you are absolutely right. But by the same token. If you are flagged as a known pirate maybe you should be banned from the safe zones and markets. If you wish to be a marauder and pirate you should have to live like one. There should be consequences/risks for your piracy the same way you say there should be consequences/risks for entering a PVP zone. I would even take it a step further and say that as known pirate you should be K.O.S. ANYWHERE even in the safe zones. Lets be real. Pirates werent rolling into Boston Harbor or pulling up at the pier in London to run into the bar have an ale or two.

I keep hearing PVPers use the word "challenge" then when I see them on the PVP zones the are either  firing on a ship that gives them ZERO profit for the cost they accruing, or they are ganging up 10 to 1 on another ship.  Then they talk about risk versus reward. They spend 10s of millions of quanta in ammo and repairs to take a ship that sold as a token for 1 million quanta. Be honest at least. It snot about risk versus reward. Its about stroking a pathetic ego in most cases. Or pounding on their chest on Twitch and Youtube.

PVP should have serious consequences too.

sure

 

but this wouldn't really change anything - alts ftw

 

besides: everyone NEEDS some kind of safezone where their shit is safe. otherwise ppl will not bother with pvp at all - reducing gameplay, oppertunity, market value and everything. also, not being able to use the market is kinda silly (again: alts are a thing) because then you just exclude more ppl from participating in a meaningful way. The consequences and risk being a pirate ARE there:

you are already KOS anywhere for certain orgs and they hunt you.

 

punishing PVP players because they actually do what DU wants them to do (pvp in the pvp zone) is not really the way to go. instead people should finally realize that entering the pvp zone automatically means they consent to PVP and that they might lose their ship.

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I think it's a great idea that the pirates are not allowed to fly into the official safe zone or can only do so with shelling. But I also agree that the pirates should be given their own moon or planets with moons as a save zone.

In this respect, NQ can add this to the game quite quickly and we would then have at least 2 factions to choose from. How quickly can NQ introduce a permanently safe planet with a few moons into the game?

What will be difficult is who belongs to the pirates? Does that mean the sneaky or does it mean Legion or even both? Because they also shoot each other down. In the end, we need several factions anyway and a retreat for each.

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On 10/11/2021 at 3:20 PM, Zarcata said:

In this respect, NQ can add this to the game quite quickly and we would then have at least 2 factions to choose from. How quickly can NQ introduce a permanently safe planet with a few moons into the game?

it's not NQs job to provide factions. It's up to the players to come up with that and it's up to the players to band together to hunt and kill pirates or to make some pocket of the pvp zone relatively safe - see EVE, works there since 2004. Don't see a reason it wouldn't work here if ppl actually started working together

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