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DevBlog: The Maneuver Tool and Disconnecting Ships - DUscussion thread

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8 hours ago, Pleione said:

Can I ask why you assume MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER means PVP?  Lore wise it makes ZERO sense - we just spent ~10,000 years to get to a new solar system and the first and most important thing we do is figure out how to kill each other?

 

Some of us hope for a better, peaceful, future...

Oh you sweet soul, you!!!

 

It’s the internet. Some of the most toxic, twisted, sadistic people are more likely to expose that aspect of their personality online and in-game where the worst possible thing that could happen is that they get their accounts closed. The real world equivalent to account closure would be summary execution. 
 

Given that most people with sociopathic tendencies evaluate the risk-reward scenario thoroughly before engaging, you end up with all the worst murder hobos, changers, griefers, and those challenged in the trouser department descending on these open ended games to do what they want to do IRL but don’t have the balls to. 
 

or not... who knows. 

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17 hours ago, Umibozu said:

Thats the problem, i have seen in other MMO's what happens when large guilds/orgs control content and deny it for the rest of the community, and it is not a good thing.

As i said average player is not interested in orgs, politics , pvp to that extent , average player spends a bit of his time playing and wants to chill out , try new things , do bit of mining , build something, do bit of exploring maybe a quest or a mission.

In-game politics, large org projects are for diehards who spend 6+ hours a day playing, and those will have an obvious advantage , give them ability to control content and the vast majority of population wont be able to leave safe space.

 

Creators vision and customer expectations have to meet ,  or neither side will benefit. Creator wont have a project to work on and customers wont have a product to enjoy.

 

Agreed and reacted. This game will appeal to the creative builder types, no doubt about it... with the added lure of having others ogle your works. 
 

ps.does your name come

from Japanese? If so, it can have two meanings

 

Sea Monk...

 

or my personal favourite 

 

Pus Monk...

 

without the kanji, it’s hard to determine which one since we can’t hear the pronunciation. Lol. 

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Again, I have to 100% agree with Unibozu. 
 

the problem with PvP in a game like this is that is is basically the digital version of passive smoking. 
 

even if you don’t smoke, PvP will affect you unless you stay out of its way and in some games that means to not play at all and give your money to someone else. 

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3 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

Given that most people with sociopathic tendencies evaluate the risk-reward scenario thoroughly before engaging

The price is definitely a lot higher in DU than in Eve. In Eve, anyone can roll an arty thrasher alt in a few hours and pop squishy 'innocents' in highsec until sec status drops too low.. Griefing in DU is a bit harder and I'm still unsure as to what limits are possible before GMs interfere.

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10 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

Agreed and reacted. This game will appeal to the creative builder types, no doubt about it... with the added lure of having others ogle your works. 
 

ps.does your name come

from Japanese? If so, it can have two meanings

 

Sea Monk...

 

or my personal favourite 

 

Pus Monk...

 

without the kanji, it’s hard to determine which one since we can’t hear the pronunciation. Lol. 


'Pus Monk' sounds like the name of a garage punk band! 😂 @GraXXoR

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11 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

Agreed and reacted. This game will appeal to the creative builder types, no doubt about it... with the added lure of having others ogle your works. 
 

ps.does your name come

from Japanese? If so, it can have two meanings

 

Sea Monk...

 

or my personal favourite 

 

Pus Monk...

 

without the kanji, it’s hard to determine which one since we can’t hear the pronunciation. Lol. 

Sea Monk, and name appears in some Anime's I have watched long time ago.

 

Due to Real life experiences I became pessimist and great believer of Murphy's Law, so please do not take my posts as negative/complaining, I have a tendency to find and point out anything that can go wrong,be it game mechanics  to player behavior.

We already see that certain players push the system a bit to far and perform certain actions towards unsuspecting community, Construct "nets" on warp exits, scam dispensers in newbie areas,  maneuver tool exploit, to name the few.

I am just afraid that giving those kinds of players too much freedom, will not be well received by law abiding part of community. 

Lot of us have to deal with antisocial behaviors in real world ,so we are not keen on having too much of it ingame , where we come to escape harsh reality. Just sayin

 

I do realize that Pvp community wants more pvp, less safe areas, but bear in mind that albeit, it is the loudest and most demanding part of the player base it is in fact the smallest.

 

More changes are coming to Support system , so im asking again:

 

When we are going to get Community support/Global ingame channel?

 

There are plenty of unresolved bugs and issues, yet we have not seen any bug fixes lately.

 

No meaningful content , just some quality of life changes that are going to be changed AGAIN in the future.....

Why?

 

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2 hours ago, Umibozu said:

Sea Monk, and name appears in some Anime's I have watched long time ago.

 

Due to Real life experiences I became pessimist and great believer of Murphy's Law, so please do not take my posts as negative/complaining, I have a tendency to find and point out anything that can go wrong,be it game mechanics  to player behavior.

We already see that certain players push the system a bit to far and perform certain actions towards unsuspecting community, Construct "nets" on warp exits, scam dispensers in newbie areas,  maneuver tool exploit, to name the few.

I am just afraid that giving those kinds of players too much freedom, will not be well received by law abiding part of community. 

Lot of us have to deal with antisocial behaviors in real world ,so we are not keen on having too much of it ingame , where we come to escape harsh reality. Just sayin

 

I do realize that Pvp community wants more pvp, less safe areas, but bear in mind that albeit, it is the loudest and most demanding part of the player base it is in fact the smallest.

 

More changes are coming to Support system , so im asking again:

 

When we are going to get Community support/Global ingame channel?

 

There are plenty of unresolved bugs and issues, yet we have not seen any bug fixes lately.

 

No meaningful content , just some quality of life changes that are going to be changed AGAIN in the future.....

Why?

 

If there is nothing new in the next patch, I will be jumping on ships with my character inventory full of catalyst 3. Not because I am bad person, because I am bored.

 

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1 hour ago, XKentX said:

If there is nothing new in the next patch, I will be jumping on ships with my character inventory full of catalyst 3. Not because I am bad person, because I am bored.

 

Your not alone.  I have my Large cargo ship, my Large Space station pumping out anything I want to make...  down to tweaking the ship, tweaking the station, and stockpiling ores and intermediate products.  Scanning for t5s is boring, but about the only thing I have to do...

 

I do wish they would focus on fixing bugs instead of new unexpected things like this Gold Star event they posted this morning.

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7 minutes ago, Pleione said:

Your not alone.  I have my Large cargo ship, my Large Space station pumping out anything I want to make...  down to tweaking the ship, tweaking the station, and stockpiling ores and intermediate products.  Scanning for t5s is boring, but about the only thing I have to do...

 

I do wish they would focus on fixing bugs instead of stupid things like this Gold Star event they posted this morning.

That event is time limited, like you should get there and do stuff asap. It started Tuesday - 17:30 for me. Yea, I can watch some folks streaming stuff from time to time while I am in the office and annoy them in discord asking how it's going...

 

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34 minutes ago, Pleione said:

instead of new unexpected things like this Gold Star event they posted this morning.

Blah. Anyone else with zero interest in that thing? After the last 'community event' becoming a test of 'who had the most Alpha insider knowledge'...

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2 minutes ago, Emptiness said:

Blah. Anyone else with zero interest in that thing? After the last 'community event' becoming a test of 'who had the most Alpha insider knowledge'...

There are now "leak rumors" about industry requiring some kind of recipes. Let's see if some really have inside knowledge.

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17 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

It’s the internet. Some of the most toxic, twisted, sadistic people are more likely to expose that aspect of their personality online and in-game where the worst possible thing that could happen is that they get their accounts closed. The real world equivalent to account closure would be summary execution. 
 

Given that most people with sociopathic tendencies evaluate the risk-reward scenario thoroughly before engaging, you end up with all the worst murder hobos, changers, griefers, and those challenged in the trouser department descending on these open ended games to do what they want to do IRL but don’t have the balls to.

Japanese society stereotype about games in a nutshell? The cringe is real. :D No offense but It's like I'm reading a quote from some anime. What you are saying holds true in some rare cases but most of the time its just a game and you shouldn't take it seriously. People do what they find exciting in games, just that. Usually fighting other players gives you the most competition and that's why it is exciting. What these people are looking for is competition and the thrill of winning, like sports.

 

By your logic call of duty players would be murderous warmongers that want to kill people IRL.

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1 hour ago, Rimezx said:

 Usually fighting other players gives you the most competition and that's why it is exciting. What these people are looking for is competition and the thrill of winning, like sports.

That would be true if most PVP in DU was fighter-vs-fighter, as it was when there was a remote PVP area.  Today its "Lets gank defenseless ships and get great rewards for little effort".  Not sporting.  The core based targeting is primarily at fault here.  There is no defense for a L  core ship against XS core ships due to the core size based targeting (beyond warping - which is not available for most new players).  Many, MANY, recommendations have been made on how to fix this, and some progress has been announced, but not delivered yet.  Instead they launching things like this recent Gold Star search. 

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36 minutes ago, Pleione said:

That would be true if most PVP in DU was fighter-vs-fighter, as it was when there was a remote PVP area.  Today its "Lets gank defenseless ships and get great rewards for little effort".  Not sporting.  The core based targeting is primarily at fault here.  There is no defense for a L  core ship against XS core ships due to the core size based targeting (beyond warping - which is not available for most new players).  Many, MANY, recommendations have been made on how to fix this, and some progress has been announced, but not delivered yet.  Instead they launching things like this recent Gold Star search. 

I was commenting in general, not necessarily about DU. But i disagree with you regardless. If pvp is only fighter vs fighter as you say or in general between parties that all consent to pvp, and especially in a "remote pvp only zone", that would make it irrelevant. Also it takes a lot of effort to locate and gank someone without him getting away. It's not that "easy" and worthwile as you might think.

 

I understand that you do not like nor want to participate in pvp but you need to understand that there are those who do. So the perfect solution should be somewhere in the middle. 

 

I suggest you read this post:

The guy lays the idea pretty accurately. 

 

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7 hours ago, Rimezx said:

Japanese society stereotype about games in a nutshell? The cringe is real. :D No offense but It's like I'm reading a quote from some anime. What you are saying holds true in some rare cases but most of the time its just a game and you shouldn't take it seriously.

 

By your logic call of duty players would be murderous warmongers that want to kill people IRL.


Not sure where you’re pulling Japanese stereotypes from.. (I lie... I am sure where). But seriously, Japanese Anime is generally complete shite (apart from a few decent outings by Ghibli) 

You need to stop watching it; it will rot your soul.

 

After that attempted diss, you then go on to say it holds true in rare cases. Lol. 
 

And those are exactly the cases that can ruin it for the rest of us. Only takes one idiot in a group of 100 to shit in the punch bowl. 
 

Also, I never take games seriously, that’s why I don’t play those campaign centric mmos. Instead I have an IRL business to manage. 
 

Call of duty is specifically about shooting each other. It’s not just PvP centric, it’s entirely PVP. 
So that was possibly even worse reference than your anime one. 
 

but besides those points, I agree with you. 

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On 11/30/2020 at 1:58 PM, XKentX said:

For those who don't want to cooperate or fight with others, can I ask why are you playing MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online game ?

Your NPC software is superior

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6 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

But seriously, Japanese Anime is generally complete shite (apart from a few decent outings by Ghibli)

You need to stop watching it; it will rot your soul.

 

Sadly, same can be said for pretty much any type of entertainment medium. I general watch/skim the first episode of most things that seem interesting, but will leave it in an instant if it shown the typical sign of soul less mass produced filler TV. But you have to be willing to wade through the trash to find the hidden gems.

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14 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

And those are exactly the cases that can ruin it for the rest of us. Only takes one idiot in a group of 100 to shit in the punch bowl. 
 

Also, I never take games seriously, that’s why I don’t play those campaign centric mmos. Instead I have an IRL business to manage. 
 

Call of duty is specifically about shooting each other. It’s not just PvP centric, it’s entirely PVP. 
So that was possibly even worse reference than your anime one. 

First of all it depends on what you consider as griefing. If you consider piracy as a whole as griefing then there is no point in convesing about this any further. Its a matter of preference. NQ officially wants piracy to exist in their game.

 

Pirates with balls will hunt for cargo and not to ruin someone's day for no reason. If a cargo scanner is added they will know how much cargo a ship is carrying and decide weather to engage or not depending on that. What i would consider as griefing would be if someone were to kill every ship and destroy it down to the last voxel. There will surely be a very few people that will do that but what impact will they have on the community as a whole? No serious organization is going to accept griefers and if they become too obnoxious they will eventually be hunted by everyone. 

 

There are going to be military/bounty hunters who hunt the pirates and thus a balance is gonna be established.

 

What is the point of building ships if they aren't going to ever be used for something? If the game remains as is only the builders will stay and after a while they will also get bored.

 

Lastly about my refence to cod. I was not trying to compare it to another game or DU. I was speaking generally about the connection of games to the player's character and psychology. In most cases what people do in games has nothing to do with their irl behaviour. Because they fight in game it does not mean they would do the same irl even if there were no consequences. For example let's say someone creates female characters as a guy like many do. Does it mean anything? No, they simply like the characters they create. They don't have to be representations of themselves and so on.

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Man not being able to alt+F4 along with element destruction sounds like good ways to drive away players. Might want to address the reasons we need to alt+F4 in the 1st place (lack of reentry tutorials, difficult to land on Alioth due to its strong gravity, etc). I'm building an AGG ship to help me out in regards to alt+F4 but we still needed to suspend our AGG ships in the air. [edit] Did NQ fix the bug where we need to alt+f4 to keep the AGG ship in the air? That's what I mean by this change being way too premature.

 

This change is really premature and was there even a big clamor for it? I'd rather get Vertex editing and mining improvements. Mining needs WAY more variety. Where is Asteroid mining? Why no updates on that

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3 hours ago, Ryotian said:

Might want to address the reasons we need to alt+F4 in the 1st place (lack of reentry tutorials, difficult to land on Alioth due to its strong gravity, etc

 

Um no, due to bugs or game stablity maybe sure but saying you need a crutch because something is hard is the worse possible reason to justify it. 

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18 hours ago, HellToupee said:

 

Um no, due to bugs or game stablity maybe sure but saying you need a crutch because something is hard is the worse possible reason to justify it. 

Nothing in the game is "hard" to be honest. All the "hard" is either boring or just a time-sink.

 

You get the landing part like after 2-3 times you do it. You will still crash from time to time as you feel overconfident and try to do it faster but that's nothing compared to the amount of crashes due to bugs/glitches etc.

 

It seems if you stand up from your chair while flying in atmo, if you sit back in, the wings stop working and you just smash to the ground. Alt+f4 is "workaround" for this kind of bugs but it's being taken away.

If you fly at high speed in space, if you stand up you have very little chance on getting back into chair without script error and game crash if you try to reconfigure the chair. Alt+f4 was stopping it. Post-patch no idea how I am supposed to stop the ship when it unloads parts of it in front of my face.

 

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On 11/25/2020 at 10:43 PM, XKentX said:

If you don't suspend the momentum after warp then you will crash into that nice huge base someone built especially for you at the warp exit.

maybe a bit off-topic, I'm sorry

 

I just almost crashed in a Base after Warp-exit.

It was at the Warp breaking situation, I hadn't had any chance to interact. Well, maybe Alt-F4.

 

My question is, is it possible to crash this way ? While being still in the warp-breaking phase ?

Since there is more and more stations around any planet, this is a real concern.

 

Thanks for any hint.

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1 minute ago, Captain Hills said:

maybe a bit off-topic, I'm sorry

 

I just almost crashed in a Base after Warp-exit.

It was at the Warp breaking situation, I hadn't had any chance to interact. Well, maybe Alt-F4.

 

My question is, is it possible to crash this way ? While being still in the warp-breaking phase ?

Since there is more and more stations around any planet, this is a real concern.

 

Thanks for any hint.

No.

 

As long as you are in a warp you can't crash.

You can even enter warp when you are inside the cube surrounding you. You will just fly thru it.

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