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NQ-Naerais

“Marketplace Heist” Response

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1 hour ago, ColonkinYT said:

 

I'm not saying this point is fair. There is little that can be called fair in this world. But he is. The guys put the developers in a bad light. And they paid.

Where is the inconsistency?

Punishing players with permaban for dev RDMS  mistakes.
 

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1 hour ago, ColonkinYT said:

 

 

They made us look silly - 

There is also a clause about this in the user agreement.
 

I'm not saying this point is fair. There is little that can be called fair in this world. But he is. The guys put the developers in a bad light. And they paid.

Where is the inconsistency?

No, NQ made NQ look silly.

 

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I for one am happy they stuck with their decision. 

Accept it and keep playing, or move along as you all proclaimed. But it's time to stop throwing a tantrum all over the community because you didn't get it your way.
Its done, over. The amount of attention drawing is just really bad for any normal discussion. Heck, even Duscussion is back to normal and having good conversations again.

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16 minutes ago, Samlow said:

I for one am happy they stuck with their decision. 

Accept it and keep playing, or move along as you all proclaimed. But it's time to stop throwing a tantrum all over the community because you didn't get it your way.
Its done, over. The amount of attention drawing is just really bad for any normal discussion. Heck, even Duscussion is back to normal and having good conversations again.

Exactly.  It is pretty cut and dry.

 

Break the EULA and brag about it on reddit get hit with banhammer.

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Scoopy and Uber have made just one mistake and that is underestimating the sheer incompetence of Novaquark.

If markets were properly implemented, you could order an Exterminatus on Alioth and they would keep working regardless.

As a matter of fact the markets have broken down a dozen times even without any player involvement. At the moment you can't even execute global buy orders, a crucial part of any global market. Does that damage NQ image and/or reputation? Does it have a negative impact on many users' gaming experience? Is it detrimental to the proper functioning of the game? Sure as hell seems like it to me. Still waiting on that public apology by NQ for making NQ look bad.

Nothing Scoopy and Uber have done warranted any punishment, nevermind a permaban; they have simply chosen a bad time to do it and got used as scapegoats in NQ's desperate damage control attempt.

You can judge how well that worked just by scrolling through the thread.

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1 hour ago, NQ-Naerais said:

Finally, and for the record, the issue with the market did not result in a wrongly-set RDMS, but rather in a duplication bug. Part of what we use is the same tools as players to build constructs. We create one district, then duplicate it. Something went wrong in the duplication process of one of the markets, which resulted in players being able to edit it.

This may be true but it does not take anything from the fact that from the player's perspective, the construct is editable and open. There is _no_ communication from NQ stating that as a result of a duplication bug there can be a situation where this happens so there is _NO_ way for players to know this might be the case. So in that respect, this argument is not valid.

 

As I have made very clear before, I agree that the actions from the player's end were unjustified and they should have known beter. As a result yes, punitive action from the side of NQ is absolutely fair and reasonable but the chosen path is way over the top.

 

 

Quote

Even a proper attempt to inform us about an exploit doesn’t mean that it’s OK to go on and abuse it. Communicating an exploit to the NQ staff doesn’t serve as a way to absolve the players,

And I see no reasonable arguments against the NQ action is saying it is. There is always those who just say no (just like there are those who just say yes) but the consensus for those who do not agree with he direction NQ takes here seems to be that..

 

 

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it’s only meant to ensure that we fix the issue - it’s not a free pass to use an exploit. The banned players destroyed a player market by dismantling it, and the fact that they communicated with us via Reddit with a request not to be banned shows that they knew what they were doing was wrong. They posted on Reddit, proud of their ‘achievement’ and of the destruction.

Which was dumb on their end but does not justify a permaban IMO and that of many others in and outside the DU community. In fact by this being in the public eye already should make NQ more cautious of possible fallout from an over reaction

 

 

Quote

Here are a couple of things that we’d like to reiterate:

  • We are in beta.  Things aren’t always going to work as intended. But we have a persistent, single-shard universe, and altering its foundations impacts all players.
  • Bug Fixes aren’t instant. They take manpower time to find, investigate, fix, test and roll out. We try to make sure that fixing a bug doesn’t introduce a dozen more.
  • As beta players, we count on you to help us and report bugs, not abuse them. We believe that this is fairly standard for most games.  

 

All true but there is a few things that NQ continues to ignore and does not take accountability for or ownership of:

 

There is no solid, well defined way in which NQ handles reports on exploits and bugs, it's all ad-hoc and takes forever as these go through the ticket system which is backed up for weeks without any triage being done except for maybe connection issues. 

 

Communication on this is and has been at best vague and easily open to several interpretations.

 

This is really not that hard:

Once reported and seen, NQ declares an exploit or bug in public and an entry in TOS makes that announcement binding and defines it as a "do not abuse this as doing so will result in a bannable offense".

 

This both creates clarity quickly and allows NQ time to go in and fix this.

 

 

NQ has a huge list of more or less high impact bugs and issues which are known and reported, some have been in the support queue for 5+ weeks without even been looked at. Escalations to CS staff/leads have no effect. Generally, ticket based support by NQ is pretty much so backdated that it becomes meaningless. Well known issues in game remain unattended for weeks on end, patches which break important game functionality are left in as-is without any indication of a fix for these issues.

 

In general, NQ needs to stop being offended when people point out the obvious and improve their style of, frequency of and context for communication. A lot of things that happen are due to NQ being slow, vague, inconsistent and to be honest often using language which seems to come straight out of Google Translate. Have an objective look at the TOS and see how it's really badly written and is generally littered with incorrect use of capital letters and punctuation. 

 

 

Bottom line here IMO is that NQ still refuses to see that there are definite parts of all this that are in their court and while it certainly does not justify the player's actions, it does mean that NQ needs to take ownership of this which they are not doing. And most of what "us" who do not agree with this action are pointing out is exactly that, not a blanket "set them free" as quite a few of the ones in the community who choose to oppose our view seem to be implying.

 

Due to the way NQ handled this, there are now a number of publications on this issue which are geared against NQ, some are grossly overlooking all the facts because it gets them viewers but they are having an effect  which is fully due to the way NQ handled this and now, instead of taking the opportunity to reflect and choose to do some PR repair work,  NQ seems to just double down on there position.

 

 

All of the above obviously IMO, not saying I am absolutely right or entirely accurate (as I obviously do not have all the facts) even when I believe I am not wrong here.

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4 minutes ago, dumpeet said:

Scoopy and Uber have made just one mistake and that is underestimating the sheer incompetence of Novaquark.

If markets were properly implemented, you could order an Exterminatus on Alioth and they would keep working regardless.

As a matter of fact the markets have broken down a dozen times even without any player involvement. At the moment you can't even execute global buy orders, a crucial part of any global market. Does that damage NQ image and/or reputation? Does it have a negative impact on many users' gaming experience? Is it detrimental to the proper functioning of the game? Sure as hell seems like it to me. Still waiting on that public apology by NQ for making NQ look bad.

Nothing Scoopy and Uber have done warranted any punishment, nevermind a permaban; they have simply chosen a bad time to do it and got used as scapegoats in NQ's desperate damage control attempt.

You can judge how well that worked just by scrolling through the thread.

That depends if you actually count the number of unique individuals.

Its a loud minority, the same one that defended parenting to the death.
Ofcourse theyre gonna come here en masse to debate it all.

But once you move out of the echo chamber, most people just agree that their action was bad, maybe argue a temp ban, but soon as yall started shouting all over the place that was never an option anymore.

To add to that, weve seen every argument made here. Im sure NQ seen it too, but that didnt turn the decision around (in part I assume due to the way its all conveyed). Nothing new is gonna be posted after this, so its time to move on. 

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The histrionics in here are hilarious.

 

Insane tyrants indeed, how dare the game company act like a game company!

 

NQ is not your friend, they are not here to be leaders, or anything else but a company out to make some money. 

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2 minutes ago, Samlow said:

But once you move out of the echo chamber, most people just agree that their action was bad, maybe argue a temp ban, but soon as yall started shouting all over the place that was never an option anymore.

 

While being on opposite sides of this discussion we do agree here and that goes for both sides. Pointless and non constructive shouting matches will not do anyone any good.

 

It does appear NQ is not willing to reconsider even when I believe they should and are incorrect in their assessment. They will now have to handle the fallout that will come off of it. For me it does man that my subbed alts will not renew as I do not agree with their handling of this and I believe this will not be the last time.

 

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5 minutes ago, Randazzo said:

The histrionics in here are hilarious.

 

Insane tyrants indeed, how dare the game company act like a game company!

 

NQ is not your friend, they are not here to be leaders, or anything else but a company out to make some money. 

Seriously, for some reason people are expecting some some of... Democracy here?

And not even "some people" rule breakers! It's hilarious! I'm so glad NQ stuck with their decision, these people are insane!

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Hey folks,

 

thank you all for your input. There's nothing wrong with having a debate, but the fronts have hardened and I don't think the opposing sides will come to an agreement any time soon.

 

To not let it be lost in the stream I'll link the follow-up statement by @NQ-Naerais one more time for others to find and after that I'm going to lock this thread.

 

As I see it this settles the matter. There have been complaints in the past that the rules are not being enforced properly and I've seen many fights about rule interpretation too. I even entered those discussions on occasion and shared my personal point of view - especially regarding the advice to take a "better safe than sorry" stance - and those comments of mine have been on top of official clarifications and announcements. That we have two strongly opposing sides in this argument is not new and didn't come with the Market 15 incident. I hope that as things become clearer and more streamlined, most of you will find a way to get comfortable with the rules in place.

 

Let's move on, continue to enjoy the game and build Dual Universe.

 

Mellow greetings

Mondlicht

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