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Nuclear Weapons and Player Experience

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WARNING: SARCASM/S**TPOSTING AHEAD

 

NQ has stated that they will not be adding WMDs into DU to make it fair for players not involved ("what did I do to get nuked?") But consider the following (probably some context around it but lol)

On 10/11/2018 at 3:23 AM, Lethys said:

everything is valid gameplay to get an edge over others. Can't kill their defense? Burn that alt you left in that org to deactivate them. Can't compete with an org? Infiltrate them and steal everything they got.

Such gameplay creates content for everyone and isn't really toxic.

Likewise, why shouldn't nukes be "valid gameplay"? It just adds more content for the people who aren't on the receiving end. And if you are on the receiving end? Sucks to be you I guess. Its just another form of (scummy) emergent gameplay, which will prevent cities from being nuked by Mutually Assured Destruction and the millions of credits of bounty on the person nuking. Don't forget the potential jobs created in the nuclear sector either.

 

</sarcasm>

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DU is billed as "The Civilisation Building Game" on the promotional material put out by NQ.

 

Should we add nukes and change that to "The Civilisation Destroying Game" ? :D

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there are pro's and con's. But in the end probably nuking a city will be one of the reasons NQ stated they will not have them.    Not everyone will come back after their home was nuked and in the end its a game that needs revenue.

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48 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

  Not everyone will come back after their home was nuked and in the end its a game that needs revenue.

Wait let me fix that for ya

"Not everyone will come back after their home was nuked they got ganked and in the end its a game that needs revenue doesn't nees carebears."

 

Thank me later.

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8 hours ago, 0something0 said:

Likewise, why shouldn't nukes be "valid gameplay"?

That argument doesn't work anyway because they aren't the same thing, one is player behavior and the other would be a game mechanic.

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On 10/17/2018 at 11:48 AM, Vulcore said:

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I could see maybe a low yield nuke, but not much more then that. Similar reasons they will not allow the destruction of planets. 

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I still hope they will add nukes and I would like to see singularity bombs too :D 

Cant wait to trick-wire an empty cargo container to one on a seemingly abandoned cargo ship :D  

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Ok.

 

So, lets assume they allow Nukes and WMDs. I think they should personally... because reasons as explained below.

 

So - on Nukes.

 

Also, lets assume that no one has nukes when they arrive.

 

And also also, lets just assume there is fissionable material in the game; which is a huge assumption we have to make.

 

So, with ref...

 

https://www.livescience.com/5752-hard-nuclear-weapons.html

 

In short:

 

There are multiple steps to getting a nuclear bomb

 

First you need to find and mine your U-235 or Pu, and enough of it to then enrich.

 

THEN you need to produce ENOUGH weapons grade uranium or plutonium for your intended yield. Which involves having a nuclear reactor or two. Which are stupid big. Big big fat targets that will melt your TU zone into a Fallout Theme Park. So I hope you aren't in a war while you are working on this.

 

Now - your intended yield you won't know without testing... (see further down). You then also have to develop a warhead, get the uranium/plutonium into the warhead, and then have a way to deliver it, including guidance systems, plus control centers, missile silo or suicide bomber/suitcase, or missile boats/starships.

 

And EVEN then, it won't be clear whether your weapon will actually work, since you have to then test the bloody things and refine the process.

 

On average, it takes a COUNTRY at the moment, 5-10 years to build a nuclear weapon - think about that a nuclear weapons program involves 100's and 1000's of scientists and other resources, millions and millions of dollars, lots of infrastructure, nuclear reactors for the enrichment, etc etc) from scratch, assuming they start with JUST the instructions.

 

You wake with little to no memory, and an AI that probably doesn't really want you to have WMDs...

 

And as an individual player, you have LUA, and Voxels with which to work with in the development of atomic level technology.

 

Have fun with that.

 

Aaaaaaaand, go *clicks stopwatch* I'll see you in a few years.... assuming no one stops you in the mean time...

 

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@Anonymous

Yes and do you know what keep people not to nuke each other right now in the world ? Public opinion, consequence so great ( everyone got nuke ), humanity (what you tell your people afterward ? You nuke million of innocent because some Oil ? ) And so glad because of that we dont have to witness Nuclear Judgement day ... for now.

 

And DU is a game, all of the reason for holding using nuclear weapon will be non exit. IF something can, they will do it. I can imagine people nuke everything ... for fun of course or some reason.

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10 hours ago, ShioriStein said:

@Anonymous

Yes and do you know what keep people not to nuke each other right now in the world ? Public opinion, consequence so great ( everyone got nuke ), humanity (what you tell your people afterward ? You nuke million of innocent because some Oil ? ) And so glad because of that we dont have to witness Nuclear Judgement day ... for now.

 

And DU is a game, all of the reason for holding using nuclear weapon will be non exit. IF something can, they will do it. I can imagine people nuke everything ... for fun of course or some reason.

I believe you are partially right. I think that what keeps "people" not nuking each other is exactly what I detail above - it is very hard to make a nuclear weapon. If they were as common as hand guns, I have absolutely no doubt that people would nuke everything, for fun or otherwise. Humans are nasty, violent, self centered creatures with a history of trying to eradicate each other, given the means.

 

Public opinion, consequences, how you tell people, killing innocent people - all of these things aren't really factors. It is, however, a well known reason to use them only as a weapon of last resort, because it irreparably damages the target environment. If you are invading a country to get it's oil, it will be no good to you if you can't then GET the oil because it is now in a radioactive wasteland for the next 3 decades. Money and profit, as always, is probably one of the primary reasons WMDs have not been used far more often.

 

Noting that less that 0.1% of the population are in fact the ones who have them - 99.9% of the worlds population just has to live in the hope that it never happens. It is a hard thing to explain if you did not grow up during the height of the Cold War - we literally grew up being told that at the push of a button, the world could end, and that every moment may well be your last - if you were one of the lucky ones. Because it is the survivors who are the real victims - a long slow painful radioactive death. It is different to the War on Terror most players here have grown up with - you have the comfort of knowing that even in a terrorist attack, the rest of humanity, your family and relatives, can go on to make the world better.

 

(Isn't it interesting that we are the only species that protects our stupid from birth. Which means we end up with some people who are basically intelligent monkeys alongside people who are geniuses and everything in between. That in itself is an issue. We aren't like, for instance, dogs. You don't see a dog eating its own vomit, and then another dog driving a forklift. So as a species we have people with access to technology capable of destroying the world, with the mental acumen and emotional intelligence of an angry 5 year old who is criminally insane.)

 

All of that said - tactical battlefield nukes as space combat weapons isn't that inconceivable - there is no consequence for fallout in space, and most space ships will be using some sort of fission or fusion engine no doubt in terms of background, so obviously DU has some capacity to turn fission or fusion engines in game into bombs with a bit of creativity....

 

I need to add that to the ideas board - exploding engines...

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12 hours ago, Anonymous said:

Ok.

 

So, lets assume they allow Nukes and WMDs. I think they should personally... because reasons as explained below.

 

-snip-

 

Scientific accuracy in my Dual Universe?

 

7 minutes ago, Anonymous said:

It is, however, a well known reason to use them only as a weapon of last resort, because it irreparably damages the target environment.

It also is important to note, nukes also have a tendency to cause other nuclear powers to launch them at your country.  Of course, in DU, you can just respawn.

 

11 hours ago, ShioriStein said:

And DU is a game, all of the reason for holding using nuclear weapon will be non exit. IF something can, they will do it. I can imagine people nuke everything ... for fun of course or some reason.

[And using nuclear weapons for arbitrary reasons on arbitrary locations is] neither toxic, bad nor unwanted. If it stays ingame, everything is valid gameplay to get an edge over others. Can't kill their defense? [Nuke everything]. Can't compete with an org? [Nuke everything].

Such gameplay creates content for everyone and isn't really toxic.

Many eve players are already here (I'm one of them) but as said, DU is different and NQ will handle stuff differently from CCP

 

One final thing to note: 

11 minutes ago, Anonymous said:

I need to add that to the ideas board - exploding engines...

Since you already talked about realism in nuclear weapons procurement, lets talk about some more realism.  

Atomic Rockets
Jon's Law

Any interesting space drive is a weapon of mass destruction. It only matters how long you want to wait for maximum damage. Interesting is equal to "whatever keeps the readers from getting bored."

 

As an example, a spacecraft with an ion drive capable of doing a meager 0.0001g of acceleration may be scientifically realistic and the exhaust is relatively harmless. However, to most of the audience it will not be interesting. "Nine months just to travel to Mars? How boring!"

The author, not wanting his book sales to go flat, hastily re-fits the hero's spacecraft with a fusion drive. The good news is that the ship can make it to Mars in twelve days flat. The bad news is that the ship's exhaust is putting out enough terawatts of energy to cut another ship in two, or make the spaceport look like it was hit by a tactical nuclear weapon.

 

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@Anonymous oh this part?

56 minutes ago, 0something0 said:

[And using nuclear weapons for arbitrary reasons on arbitrary locations is] neither toxic, bad nor unwanted.

I just modified a quote from someone else on the forums ?

I should add, making fun of these people is the reason why I created this thread in the first place despite NQ's official stance of "no WMDs"

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@0something0

Create content and create fury , unfair is 2 different thing. When you can hold back in a battle against an org and then a blast boom, everything gone, you base is now a nuclear fallout ... Do you think that is a good experience ? IT only create fury.

And what do you think keep big org from nuke everything ( that small base of newbie, let's nuke them ; That guy ship look cool , nuke it; That guy just save enough to buy that, nuke him; ... ) . I dont know from EVE or anywhere you play but i play enough game to see that people will go to the point using end-game weapon to just gank newbie. I know because i'm once the victim of it, only fury and unfair feeling after all your effort being destroy by some veteran player/

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Let's state the facts:

-Nukes make the bigger org even more heavily favoured in battles.

-It could allow a smaller org to blow up an entire city with thousands hours of work (and yes, the argument that "they should've defended" is a bad one).

-People will be turned off by the game if we have WMDs.

 

Now, you guys think that Dual Universe is a hyper-realistic physics simulator. No, it's not. It's a game.

If DU adds these, I'll create the Church of Atom. Of course, Novaquark is pretty smart so they'll never add nukes.

 

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14 hours ago, Kuritho said:

Let's state the facts:

-Nukes make the bigger org even more heavily favoured in battles.

-It could allow a smaller org to blow up an entire city with thousands hours of work (and yes, the argument that "they should've defended" is a bad one).

-People will be turned off by the game if we have WMDs.

 

Now, you guys think that Dual Universe is a hyper-realistic physics simulator. No, it's not. It's a game.

If DU adds these, I'll create the Church of Atom. Of course, Novaquark is pretty smart so they'll never add nukes.

 

Or.... the first time it happens, and Aphelia insta rebuilds all the things and resurrects everyone and we all realise.... we are still asleep in the Ark and this is all a simulation...

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20 hours ago, 0something0 said:

@Anonymous oh this part?

I just modified a quote from someone else on the forums ?

I should add, making fun of these people is the reason why I created this thread in the first place despite NQ's official stance of "no WMDs"

No - the highlighting that an engine is just a bomb that has it's explosive output managed and harnessed ?

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To everyone saying nukes will get ruin the game:

 

"In MMOs, there's one true universal principle: the strong lives, the weak adapts.

When everyone's ships are getting [nuked], I'll be sure to be a [nuker]."

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