Jump to content
Tactician

My biggest worry about this game

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Ghoster said:

You sound like a traumatized warchild. Funny how you can know from a start on a forum who's gonna represent one of most aggressive and conflict-driven playstyle.

Call me Jack Harkness and read me Heart of Darkness, like, do you have a third eye or something? How did you figure that out?! Was the fact I am part of the Band of Outlaws that gave it away?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:


Thing is, terms like "toxic" are subjective. One side's hero is the other side's villain.

Point is, "civilisation" involves armies. "Terror" only comes when said "civilisations" do nothing to stop it. NBSI is the answer to that. Your people back at the center of your faction don't have to worry doing PVE or mining ,cause these people are safe cause of borders being KEPT safe. If people fail to understand "you can't enter here cause you are not part of our faction" these people need a good reminder by repeatedly being griefed on not trespassing.

That's the most biased statement I've read since a long time - it contains hidden assumption that cruelty, terror or mass killing can be justified, depending on which side of conflict you are on. It's like you're trying to apply purely nationalistic approach to a game. 

In other sentence you try to somehow carry over the responsibility for terror on victims. Bravo!

And I'm not saying DU should be pacifistic in its nature, I'm just afraid of people who already assume pushing aggresive part of the game to a limit. Societies live by devouring other societes, bla bla.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Call me Jack Harkness and read me Heart of Darkness, like, do you have a third eye or something? How did you figure that out?! Was the fact I am part of the Band of Outlaws that gave it away?

*ignores boring sarcasm*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Falstaf said:

Quite right Twerk. 

In the end the organizations will have to be smart enough to back up their claims. Lucky for us, you can always relocate if you don't like your area or planet.:P

 

Moving away from psychos and trying to live your life - seems like an option for me :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Falstaf said:

Quite right Twerk. 

Toxic might not be the best choice of words. It is subjective as you say. Let me try to rephrase that as, I want DU to be welcoming to new people. 

 

I admit it's not as easy as calling a game toxic and be done with it. An example, EVE is also known for doing a lot for charity, yet that doesn't seem to influence people's opinion of the community. And that's a shame. 

 

In the end the organizations will have to be smart enough to back up their claims. Lucky for us, you can always relocate if you don't like your area or planet.:P

 

True, EVE has some top quality sociopaths.

So far, I've seen things in this community like :

- Bribing with pledges.
- Bribing with steam keys.
- Bribing with promises.
- Slander and attempts at "exposing" people.
- Threats of "punishment" in media off of the forums.
- Threats of doxxing.
- Threats of violence.

- Threats of griefing.

- Insults.

- Leaking of information.
- Leaking of personal chats.
- Leaking of voice recordings.
- and up until the forum rework, people 1-starring other people they hated

More or less, same as EVE. 

EVE's "problem" is its freedom. If people don't like freedom in games, they should go play something like WoW, being held by the hand like a 2 year old by the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Ghoster said:

*ignores boring sarcasm*

You don't know who Jack Harkness is, neither what Heart of Darkness is about.

It was not sarcasm, it was irony. You don't know what those words mean either apparently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Ghoster said:

That's the most biased statement I've read since a long time - it contains hidden assumption that cruelty, terror or mass killing can be justified, depending on which side of conflict you are on. It's like you're trying to apply purely nationalistic approach to a game. 

In other sentence you try to somehow carry over the responsibility for terror on victims. Bravo!

And I'm not saying DU should be pacifistic in its nature, I'm just afraid of people who already assume pushing aggresive part of the game to a limit. Societies live by devouring other societes, bla bla.

You are not the kind of person to put hours into anything ,are you? You sound like a millenial expecting everything to be delviered to them.

 

Freedom has to be fought for. If your side has no vigilance, that side is responsible for what happens to them. No pirate ever attacked a place they know they will be retaliated hard. "1 of ours? 10 of theirs" that's what keeps regions safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Ghoster said:

A sidenote: I would love to see all social darvinism advocates to reflect upon their glorious ideas by losing their revenue stream due to AI replacing their jobs forever, or losing their homes because some powerful people decide to compete with different powerful people over piece of land through warfare. Or maybe just trying to survive without antibiotics when they're infected with multi-resistant bacteria, which their immune system cannot defeat. Then they would be perhaps able to realize full consequences of preaching social darvinism in 2017.

As Lethys said (and given the context of my post you quoted, that in turn quoted a different post that might give it the proper context): Game "rules" don't automatically equal or touch upon all sorts of values or aspects of "reality" as many like to dub it.

 

If you happen to get a super resistant disease or if your job gets replaced or made obsolete (for humans) due to technological advances, that is one thing and somewhat dependent on a higher power that you may not be able to influence or control much or at all.

 

If you start an organization in a game, that's a lot more of control and thus responsibility or blame to bear if things go south due to your own (bad?) decisions that could maybe have been avoided already with sufficient foresight. What I mean is simple: If you try to invent the wheel anew, or, more specifically, try to open up another burger shop while there is 3 others within 500 meters, one should not wonder about a lack of progress or profit, if you get what I mean.

 

More specifically, if people open up organizations here that by style, design and content are already plentiful and / or they are so by in-game location or if organization leaders are simply inept because of being rather unstable, emotional, lashing out and so on, that's simply tough luck. And given the large influx of organizations to be expected, I must also admit that I could not care less. Not because I want to be cocky or uncaring, but because that is the way things go.

 

On a game level, that is - before anyone thinks of real life examples that are surely more dire than losing time in some online game due to bad moves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

True, EVE has some top quality sociopaths.

So far, I've seen things in this community like :
*snip*

More or less, same as EVE. 

EVE's "problem" is its freedom. 

True... but once more I choose optimism and hope for the best. 

 

Hehe, I think we all have our own ideas about what EVE's problem is. But the freedom aspect is something I often discuss with my younger brother. Me personally can't stand to kill 10 rats, ever again. 

 

And because I can't multi quote, I just want to say equeting a players actions in game to a person's real life mentality is stupid. 

 

There is always the exception of course. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Falstaf said:

True... but once more I choose optimism and hope for the best. 

 

Hehe, I think we all have our own ideas about what EVE's problem is. But the freedom aspect is something I often discuss with my younger brother. Me personally can't stand to kill 10 rats, ever again. 

 

And because I can't multi quote, I just want to say equeting a players actions in game to a person's real life mentality is stupid. 

 

There is always the exception of course. 


One of EVE's many problems is the "kill 10000 Rats (NPC Pirates), get money and loot, rinse repeat"..

If DU was to add PVE, I'd hope it's for cosmetic items. If Firefly taught me anything, it'd be the future is full of trenchcoats, leather jackets and silk scarves. Make PVE part of the crafting experience.

 

And indeed, many of the so called "psycopaths" I have thought of in EVE before playing it, are the coolest dudes once you start talking with them.

The issue people have - like IRL - is that it's easier to reach in premature opinions, like "guy killed me, guy is bad, game's bad", instead of thinking "hey, why did he kill me for? Oh, turns out I am in their faction's space, I was trespassing".

Of course, unlike in EVE, DU has avatars first and ships are just vehicles, so we can HOPEFULLY have people who are willing to solve things by talking.

I posted a topic on Knock-Out mechanics isntead of just killing people, as a means for people who do scouting and patrolling to be able to pin someone down for interrogation, so we can have both "shoot first, ask questions later" and have the NBSI protocols strong.You see a group of people trespassing, knock them out, ask them who they are and what they were doing here, if they are just peaceful people looking to mine, explain to them the lay of the land and the fact "you mine here, you pay subscription to he org running this place and yo uget lower tax on market units for your ore" as an example.

See, this is what DU needs mostly to deviate from EVE. EVE has no tools for "mercy", it's either "let them go" or "blow them up", no in-between. Someone can say "you can ignore their pod, that's mercy" and to that I say "really? Blow up a 10 Billion ship and letting a 1 billion Pod go? "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

However, the NBSI protocol; is there for a reason, if yo uare red, it means you are affiliated with an enemy. You can't expect them to give yo ua free passs.

For all they know, you could be scouting for a fleet. They HAVE to take you out. YOu should not exprect any mercy in DU in that regard either. You have an entire server to "explore", if you want to "explore" in an enemy's territory, then yexpect them to kidnly remove you fro mthe premises by force.

 

What bothered me I think, is that there was no concept of "neutrality" in EVE, you were either an ally or an enemy. Unknown, was automatically put into the enemy category. 

 

Yes, I really hope that the "explorer" playstyle is a bit expanded in DU as compared to EVE. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Forodrim said:

 

What bothered me I think, is that there was no concept of "neutrality" in EVE, you were either an ally or an enemy. Unknown, was automatically put into the enemy category. 

 

Yes, I really hope that the "explorer" playstyle is a bit expanded in DU as compared to EVE. 

As we say in EVE "it's not paranoia if the Neutral IS an enemy scout".

Beter safe than ragequitting after a gank, amirite?


To be honest, I don't see DU working any differently. Freighters will have to pay for "seals of approval" from an alliance to conduct hauling in their territories and traverse their star-gates, those same freighters, - some of them- will be into smuggling people through stargate checkpoints, and in return, the NBSI will evolve int osomething new.

Expect DU to be the first game with an illegal immigrant issue inside its world. Best social experiment ever - how to tackle illegal immigrants ina humane way.

EVE helped researchers study the market and the nature of warfare, while DU will explore many more subjects.

We will all have to be happy being lab-rats for those future researchers.


Also, EVE had a war known as World War Bee, where the Goonswarm tried to impose a Viceroy system to neighbouring alliances and regions, to which the entire server piled up on them and pretty much destroyed them. See, that's exactly how WW2 went down.

The Brits, the Russians and Americans were no bud bud before, or after, WW2. But for that brief period in human history, the were allies, fighting a common enemy. Same thing was World War Bee (see how meta even the name of the war itself is? :P Goonswarm have a bee as their logo).

 

That's some top quality sociological scenarios right there. Being Neutral, like in the Cold War, means you are a third world country - the literal meaning, not being allied to a superpower puts you in a status of less access to trade and wealth.

Only mercs are neutral, and even THEY have each other mercenary set to "ally" status. Honor amongst thieves. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the majority of DU players are refugees from EVE, then DU will be played like EVE (as long as the game rules support it).

 

EVE's way of doing things has been developed over the last 14 years, and they represent the "best solution" for EVE's world. They work, and all EVE players understand them. If those conventions can be easily ported to DU, they will be. Nobody likes re-inventing the wheel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

If DU was to add PVE, I'd hope it's for cosmetic items. If Firefly taught me anything, it'd be the future is full of trenchcoats, leather jackets and silk scarves. Make PVE part of the crafting experience.

We can only hope. 

PVE for crafting weapons, armor, fashion  etc. would be a perfect fit for DU. I still want my trenchcoat and cowboy hat. 

 

I'm scared to watch firefly, I'll watch it and then get upset because it got canceled, like TOS.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Falstaf said:

We can only hope. 

PVE for crafting weapons, armor, fashion  etc. would be a perfect fit for DU. I still want my trenchcoat and cowboy hat. 

 

I'm scared to watch firefly, I'll watch it and then get upset because it got canceled, like TOS.

 

 

Well, crafting "unique models" for weapns, yes, like a "golden pistol" from other games, a thing you'd hand as a gift more than an actual functional thing. A golden pistol might sound "cool", but in reality, it would only make recoil even worse xDD.

 

 

But yeah, I think DU can take a page out of Warframe and ESO in this regard - people love high fashion. Everyone can craft a Light Armor, not many can craft a light armor that has a "leatherbound" texture on it. It's the exact same armor stats-wise, just with a cooler look. And I think that's where PVE should lay in DU. Gather Bones, make a bone ornate armor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Forodrim said:

What bothered me I think, is that there was no concept of "neutrality" in EVE, you were either an ally or an enemy. Unknown, was automatically put into the enemy category. 

 

There certainly is neutrality in EVE and Reputation Tank is Best Tank. As a member of Signal Cartel I can attest to the fact that we will more often than not be left alone with remarks like 'He is Signal, they're good people and no threat so leave him alone' We get to explore and farm sites where others get killed of instantly because we are Signal Cartel. We have docking rights in deep Null with generally aggressive NBSI factions because we are Signal Cartel.

 

That status must be earned though, we gain respect and freedom of movement because we investigate, support, help and stay neutral. Signal provides support mechanisms at no cost for anyone, maps and reports on sections of New Eden and shares the information with anyone. The reputation built through this is what keeps us alive in many situations others die.

 

NBSI also drives a need to be (set) blue by and with everyone else as it chokes the game. We see this in EVE right now as 'The Blue Doughnut' where big aliances and corps set each other blue just to be able to move around. Providence applies the "Not Red Don't Shoot" policy which means that unless you are a known offender of the rules/laws or are an enemy of the regions alliances, you are free to come in and do your business.

 

Saying that to defend what's yours you must attack and kill whomever is not a friend is IMO the worst. It shows you are paranoid, self centred and ignorant. It also is a recipe for isolation and eventual solitude. Any and all institutions living by this rule eventually fall and get eradicated.

 

Those who can only sum up the 'bad things' in EVE and can only voice fear that these will negatively impact DU are part of the problem and will generally be part of the negative spiral. EVE has so much that is good, that cares and that provides, DU can only hope it rises to that level over time. The trend I see now is that too many coming from EVE with that negative attitude seem to be willing to apply that exact same attitude in DU. Community mechanics, interactions and politics existing in EVE are there as they evolved over nearly 15 years of the game being active. Other games which saw the same mechanics applied immediately because EVE players moved in quickly went downhill, Albion is a prime example of this.

 

It's like the kid getting abused at home, who then moves out and starts his own family only to find himself a child abuser because that is what he knows (I know this is a crude comparison and I do not, and I mean NOT, address anyone personally here) . And this IMO is a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

It's like the kid getting abused at home, who then moves out and starts his own family only to find himself a child abuser because that is what he knows (I know this is a crude comparison and I do not, and I mean NOT, address anyone personally here) . And this IMO is a problem.

That's not really a good example, imho.

 

The abused child that becomes an abusive parent doesn't consciously choose that path. The outcome is shaped by their earlier experiences.

 

In MMO's, I believe that the game does not shape the player's preferred playstyle, but rather that the player chooses the game that most closely matches their preferred playstyle.

In games, people have the option to play or not, how and what they play is a conscious decision. Players will also often try to actively influence a game's design to conform to their own preferences. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

The abused child that becomes an abusive parent doesn't consciously choose that path. The outcome is shaped by their earlier experiences.

 

In MMO's, I believe that the game does not shape the player's preferred playstyle, but rather that the player chooses the game that most closely matches their preferred playstyle.

 

I do not agree, EVE certainly caters to you developing the play style you feel comfortable with/know. EVE has no 'set' or 'winning' play style. It is a sandbox where you decide what happens. Whether or not what you do is shaped by choice or (previous) experience is debatable maybe, but I believe that in games like EVE, you will show more about yourself and what 'baggage' you bring to the game than in many other games.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

You don't know who Jack Harkness is, neither what Heart of Darkness is about.

It was not sarcasm, it was irony. You don't know what those words mean either apparently.

Of course I know what Heart of Darkness is about, don't make so many false assumptions at the same time. I don't have to remember all the characters that are so dear to your heart, apparently. :P

Also:
John Haiman writes: "There is an extremely close connection between sarcasm and irony, and literary theorists in particular often treat sarcasm as simply the crudest and least interesting form of irony." (by Wikipedia) wink, wink!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ghoster said:

Of course I know what Heart of Darkness is about, don't make so many false assumptions at the same time. I don't have to remember all the characters that are so dear to your heart, apparently. :P

Also:
John Haiman writes: "There is an extremely close connection between sarcasm and irony, and literary theorists in particular often treat sarcasm as simply the crudest and least interesting form of irony." (by Wikipedia) wink, wink!

Look up the etymology of Sarcasm and Irony, both are greek words. They are not the same. But what cajn I expect of a people who do not use gender suffixes on their vocabulary. Poor vocabulary degrades a people's intellect.

Any "literary theorist" (which is a fallacy to even say out loud) who do not speak greek, can make all the assumptions they want. The etymological definitioon is pretty solid.

And you do not know the difference between the two. While you are at it, look up what Thesaurus means in greek. That'll get your gears going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/15/2017 at 4:35 PM, Tactician said:

so been following this game for a short time looks really good but my biggest worry is the sandbox mmorpg aspect, build anywhere, player driven, uh have yu not taken a look at eve online? CCP did the same thing gave players 100% freedom to run there games universe and what did everyone turn into? trolls, griefers and muggers, same damn thing will happen here sorry to say.


"same thing that will happen" ... or has already occurred.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With proper asset protections in place and a "join an org or perish" mentality, this would ensure that players can safely experience the game mechanics without interruptions from trolls etc. 

 

It will be quickly realized that the most valuable aspect of the game won't be the leaders or the orgs, or even emergent gameplay, the true value of the game will be the "grunts", the "workers" of each org or lone mercenary orgs. The willingness to give up leading but rather submitting to an org as a subordinate is the most valuable aspect. Organisations should do everything that can to convince players to join their cause.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Look up the etymology of Sarcasm and Irony, both are greek words. They are not the same. But what cajn I expect of a people who do not use gender suffixes on their vocabulary. Poor vocabulary degrades a people's intellect.

Any "literary theorist" (which is a fallacy to even say out loud) who do not speak greek, can make all the assumptions they want. The etymological definitioon is pretty solid.

And you do not know the difference between the two. While you are at it, look up what Thesaurus means in greek. That'll get your gears going.

I don't take advices from complete douchebags, and you're famous for it already.

But feel free to make more false assumptions and boost your feeling of superiority.

Btw. English is not my first language, in case you haven't noticed. I'm not perfect at it, nor will ever be.

I would love to see btw. (x2) how many words in modern English or any other language have strictly close meaning in relation to their etymology. But I don't know...maybe languages don't develop and change over time.

I hope you know thorougly some pre-Greek languages too, any person with such deep insight into linguistics and etymology shouldn't be satisfied with speaking only Greek, you know :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...