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Tactician

My biggest worry about this game

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19 minutes ago, Lethys said:

You just need to know game mechanics and dig deep - hiding, accusing and feeling powerless doesn't get you anywhere. Looking forward, socializing, learning game mechanics do

 

THIS very much.. IMO op both EVE and DU will give you exactly what you put in, be a scurred little mouse and there will be people who come and try to trample you. Claim your space and don't back down and you will gain respect, even when you lose. When you get killed, ask questions an what you did wrong and how you could improve.. chances are you will get paid the value of your ship, given some hits and tips and then asked to go and come back so your opponent can try and beat you again.

 

Most players who are serious enjoy the challenge of explaining what you could have done better then have you try again. The ones that don't generally are not in it for the fights, just to have a green killboard.

 

If you are in a corp of griefers or keep running into them you are in the wrong place, I'd even go as far as to say that when you choose to be around griefers that is your choice, not theirs. EVE is a HUGE world and there's a lot to find out and enjoy, much more than there is to be upset about. I think DU will have a good chance of getting to the same place and that is what excites me in the game as it offers much more of what I like to do and work with than EVE (while I enjoy EVE a lot)..

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3 minutes ago, Xenoform101 said:

Regardless, if the game sticks too closely to the EVE formula, it will get the same reputation or worse, that of being an EVE clone with a gimmick, so the only people that would be interested in it will be EVE players which already have EVE. When looking a WOW and its clones, the clones almost always fail.

I think it is too different to be an Eve clone, with the whole building aspect, and open-world without choke points like stargates and stations in Eve. And I think DU will have more tactical options.

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2 hours ago, blazemonger said:

Once you built your ship and go out there I think the game will be very much like EVE but with a more first person feel and look. The social and political structures are kind of the same even though it feels to me the average age of DU backers/players is lower than that in EVE where it actually is relatively high for a 'game'.

 

If there is anything that would concern me somewhat it would be that a lot of (initial) players will be too young to appreciate the concepts and intricacies the game will offer and this can easily be misinterpreted as griefing or trolling. In EVE most corporate and alliance leadership is very mature and has a very 'seasoned' view of the game. DU does not yet have this and the risk is that too many 'wannabee leaders' come in and start being adolescents.

 

The fact that many organisations are seen to be wanting to expand up and outwards without a solid and responsible core member-group or leadership is a prologue to problems. There are exceptions but I've seen and heard some thing that make me cringe.. Once we get underway I'd expect some big trees to crumble and fall as they are top heavy.

I'd simply call this natural selection on an organizational level. If you try to establish a bad business due to ideas or you lacking the right skills, you will likely lose. Same idea here. 

 

You survive somehow or you fail. 

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59 minutes ago, Xenoform101 said:

Regardless, if the game sticks too closely to the EVE formula, it will get the same reputation or worse, that of being an EVE clone with a gimmick. The only people that would be interested in it will be EVE players, which already have EVE. When looking at WOW and its clones, the clones almost always fail.

EVE's terrible UI is the main thing driving people off, not the sandbox.

IF the Sandbox didn't draw people's attention, news outlets would not cover EVE's wars like they are real wars.

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10 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

EVE's terrible UI is the main thing driving people off, not the sandbox.

IF the Sandbox didn't draw people's attention, news outlets would not cover EVE's wars like they are real wars.

i say its a bit of both, and sure it may draw people's attention but honestly it hasn't been about the wars but the scams. Still, a train wreck also attracts attention, doesn't mean you want to be in the train.

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4 minutes ago, Xenoform101 said:

i say its a bit of both, and sure it may draw people's attention but honestly it hasn't been about the wars but the scams. Still, a train wreck also attracts attention, doesn't mean you want to be in the train.

Yet, EVE is not a failed MMO or a trainwreck. 

SWTOR and SWG died, Star Trek went F2P and a heckton of other MMOs went the way of Matrix Online.

EVE is still here.

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It is and it is also free to play now and more of the game will be free to play in december.  And still if you consider it a success, doesn't mean anything that copies it will be. Look at Perpetuum.

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43 minutes ago, TheMasterArchitect said:

I can't believe people are comparing this to eve.  The gameplay is just too different.

well not really, they are actually similar in a bunch of different ways.

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"...or having many hours of your work destroyed against your will, you should leave. If any of that applies to you, you're definitely going to ragequit eventually, so it's in your best interest to leave now while you're calm instead of staying for a few hours, then leaving in anger."

 

-Ultimate Survival Guide | 2b2t anarchy server wikia

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Know the details before you judge the game completely! Before I even Backed this game up, I did research on the details, and I ended-up choosing this game over Ashes of Creation. Know the details, because your speculations are wrong! If this is indeed "like" EVE completely, then I wouldn't have Backed this game and even paid attention to it. EVE is just garbage, no offence! The *, what is the point of even building or progressing through the game if they can all be destroyed with no protection? Everything is a hostile-zone in EVE, major-reason I didn't even gave a damn about it!

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@Eternal

If you are serious about what you wrote, you will have a rude awakening in DU.. It's not like you can just park your ships and/or stuff in a NPC station and count on it being there when you next log in. If you are on a long journey, you can't safe log off and expect to be right where you were next time you log on again. DU is a truly persistent universe, you log off, your ship/stuff/structures stay visible and can be attacked/destroyed unless you set up defences yourself. There are no timers to give you a chance to defend when you are in a different timezone than your attacker. If you travel space while you log off, your ship might crash onto a planet while offline if you did not set your trajectory correctly.

 

If having your stuff destroyed and/or not having protection is your concern then EVE is certainly the better choice as it actually has exactly that, protection.. Even when a citadel gets's dismantled or destroyed and you had stuff in there, it will be moved to a safe location automatically. None of this is available in DU. And I just hope you are not considering full loot PVP a bad thing.

 

EVE is certainly not garbage, it may not be for you, but if it was garbage it would not be around 15 years after it was first released.. Does it have flaws? certainly, but then again, what doesn't. DU however will have quite a long way to go before it comes close to matching what CCP has achieved with EVE. Just discarding it as you seem to do basically tells me you really do not have much understanding about what EVE is and based on what you wrote the same would go for DU.

 

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Well, not a big fan of EVE here too, but I would highlight obvious differences here.

 

EVE for me lacked a immersion. In DU that aspect is definitely more appealing as you are a character not a ship pointing to go from A to B and watching animations.

Maybe, because of that general feeling of the game was.. everything is predefined, it was obvious from the start you have to get hang on political situation and choose your mates wisely. Have a look at the map. Yeah impressive, big.. but predefined with obvious borders and points of influence.

 

In DU having organic borders, changing a landscape with every new discovered planet or Solar System this is something that in fact can give a bigger chance to opportunists. Even lone wolfs may have a chance. But ultimately it is about politics, economy and whether you like it or not, you have to interact with people. And take a risk of dealing with all that comes with it ;)

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Pretty much the above, yes. DU builds on what EVE sets up by allowing you to _really_ make your own world and go your own way. You do not just drop an icon in a window to build a ship, you actually _build_ a ship. I don't agree there is no immersion in EVE, if you feel that you probably never had the PVP shakes in EVE or you would be talking different ;P

 

JC has repeatedly said that EVE is an example to him/NQ and it should be as it is a game that has set up and worked out a lot of excellent mechanics. But there is a lot to improve on and do better and this, it seems and IMO, is where DU comes in. For me DU basically begins at a similar point as where in the EVE lore human kind comes through the EVE gate and it collapses. In EVE this is backstory and you enter the game centuries of progression and development later, in DU you start from the beginning and we, as players, will build our own empires, nations and alliances and carve up the _whole_ universe ourselves. There are no stargates, no borders, nothing.. This is what is exciting about DU.. at least IMO..

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22 hours ago, Lethys said:

Those mass war decs don't prevent you from playing eve. You prevent yourself from Playing because you fear PvP, death or losing your ship. That mindset you have is exactly the problem why people think eve is full of griefers - it's not. The problem are risk averse ppl like you who let others decide for them ("they" prevent....) instead of doing smth about it and organize a fleet

This is the exact reason I used to only be able to enjoy like 50% of certain mmos I used to play. I was so afraid of pvp due to losing armor that I would never participate in fights and only ever be involved in pve incidents. 

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@blazemonger Then can you explain to me this "risk vs reward"-thing that the EVE-community kept on spatting about? There are risks, but I don't think there are any rewards. You people blew $1Million on B-R5RB, destroyed many Titans that costs $3K each, for what? Exactly, there were no rewards. It's just anarchy.

What you said about DU, I can understand fully. You take your construct out of the safezone, it will be persistent there. Point is, I am willing to take the risk and go beyond the planet, for our own expedition-purpose. But I will not risk everything, I'm gonna have my own properties in safezone/s and I will expand them. I will also have some properties in hostile-zones, that to every of my understandings, has to be defended.

The difference between EVE and DU; EVE is nothing but Afghanistan. If any of you know that game better, explain. 

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7 minutes ago, Eternal said:

@blazemonger Then can you explain to me this "risk vs reward"-thing that the EVE-community kept on spatting about? There are risks, but I don't think there are any rewards. You people blew $1Million on B-R5RB, destroyed many Titans that costs $3K, for what? Exactly, there were no rewards. It's just anarchy.

What you said about DU, I can understand fully. You take your construct out of the safezone, it will be persistent there. Point is, I am willing to take the risk and go beyond the planet, for our own expedition-purpose. But I will not risk everything, I'm gonna have my own properties in safezone/s and I will expand them. I will also have some properties in hostile-zones, that to every of my understandings, has to be defended.

The difference between EVE and DU; EVE is nothing but Afghanistan. If any of you know that game better, explain. 

Not sure how EVE works, but the fact that currency is safe makes it a relatively tame game imho.  

 

Also from my understanding the reward is the potential gain from PvE in those zones.  Maybe not idk, not a big EVE fan.  Played face of Mankind over EVE, liked the action of it 

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2 hours ago, Eternal said:

@blazemonger Then can you explain to me this "risk vs reward"-thing that the EVE-community kept on spatting about? There are risks, but I don't think there are any rewards. You people blew $1Million on B-R5RB, destroyed many Titans that costs $3K each, for what? Exactly, there were no rewards. It's just anarchy.

What you said about DU, I can understand fully. You take your construct out of the safezone, it will be persistent there. Point is, I am willing to take the risk and go beyond the planet, for our own expedition-purpose. But I will not risk everything, I'm gonna have my own properties in safezone/s and I will expand them. I will also have some properties in hostile-zones, that to every of my understandings, has to be defended.

The difference between EVE and DU; EVE is nothing but Afghanistan. If any of you know that game better, explain. 

the risk vs. reward argument is not (only) about pvp - it's about making money ingame.

Those battles like B-R will happen in DU too and, as in EVE, you can compare it to RL money because of DACs. The reward was a huge fight (which was fun even though there was heavy tidi) which got the attention of many many people and a resulting influx of new people joining EVE.

But the main argument for "risk vs. reward" is making money ingame - the more risks you take, the more rewards you should get. That's why you shouldn't be able to build huge ships in the arkzone - or mine the rarest ore there - as there is NO risk at all involved.

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3 hours ago, Eternal said:

@blazemonger Then can you explain to me this "risk vs reward"-thing that the EVE-community kept on spatting about? There are risks, but I don't think there are any rewards. You people blew $1Million on B-R5RB, destroyed many Titans that costs $3K each, for what? Exactly, there were no rewards. It's just anarchy.

 

What experience do you have with EVE yourself really? It sounds to me you are only quoting stories in the press.. While obviously ISK can be translated to real world money as there is a reference point in PLEX, you can't really make the comparison like you do. Most Titans in game are built by alliances using materials they produces and/or gathered themselves. A fitted Titan may have a 'market value' of 100B ISK or so, which more like $1300 in real world money but again, you can't really make the comparison as no real world money is ever spent.

 

By your reasoning I make a decent living of around $3000 in EVE every month..

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It's always interesting to see the wide variety of opinions players have in alpha regarding "how the game will be after launch".

 

Players look at a generalised statement like we see on DU's KS page "Both PvP and non-PvP will be possible.", and then they extrapolate from there, depending on their own preference. To those that don't like PVP, that phrase tells them they can play DU without engaging in PVP.

 

But that's where it all starts to sound like a Bill Clinton testimony transcript: "Well, it all depends on what your definition of "play" is...:D

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Personally I'm not overly worried about griefers. I always felt that the majority of griefing was caused by boredom. 

 

And while I applaud EVE for the things it did right, I think DU will have more dimensions in gameplay. This makes me hopeful to see a different culture emerge in DU. 

 

EVE has many problems and I've played with some really good people in EVE. But the majority of stories to come out of EVE were incredible scams, expert griefing, exciting war stories and the perception that the entire EVE community is the filth of the MMO genre. Which isn't quite true. 

 

I don't want this reputation for DU. 

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17 hours ago, Xenoform101 said:

Regardless, if the game sticks too closely to the EVE formula, it will get the same reputation or worse, that of being an EVE clone with a gimmick. The only people that would be interested in it will be EVE players, which already have EVE. When looking at WOW and its clones, the clones almost always fail.

Good thing it's not a clone of eve except the time based skilling up

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52 minutes ago, yamisniper said:

Good thing it's not a clone of eve except the time based skilling up

and the target-locking combat mechanics...

And the deep politics...

and the focus on orgs and alliances...

and the territory control mechanisms...

and the player-driven markets...

 

There's a great many similar features shared between EVE and DU. How those features are implemented in DU is what will give DU its uniqueness.

 

DU has two truly unique features, and that's the voxel-based building and the Lua scripting. Neither of those have been seen in any full-featured MMO before AFAIK. Landmark had voxel-based building, but very little else.

 

But due to the many superficial similarities, DU will most probably always be labeled as "EVE on steroids" by the general gaming public, simply because there's no other MMO to compare it to.

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17 hours ago, Xenoform101 said:

It is and it is also free to play now and more of the game will be free to play in december.  And still if you consider it a success, doesn't mean anything that copies it will be. Look at Perpetuum.

Look at Albion Online. Just came out ,healthy playerbase, same deal. Perpetuum had more issues than griefers, it was EVE's combat terrible replicated for a 3rd person mech combat game. It was doomed from the get-go.

And EVE is not F2P,  it's partial F2P. Just enough to see what's good in the game and then subscribe or buy PLEX to get the Omega status fo skil ltrain. The fact hey realised that people in Battleships can farm for PLEX much faster is a good sign for EVE. Thing is, CCP is goign to make the game eventually F2P, cause they develope a new title for a while now. There is no point having a subscription for EVE when they won't focus as much on its features after their new title comes out. 

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1 hour ago, NanoDot said:

and the target-locking combat mechanics...

And the deep politics...

and the focus on orgs and alliances...

and the territory control mechanisms...

and the player-driven markets...

 

There's a great many similar features shared between EVE and DU. How those features are implemented in DU is what will give DU its uniqueness.

 

DU has two truly unique features, and that's the voxel-based building and the Lua scripting. Neither of those have been seen in any full-featured MMO before AFAIK. Landmark had voxel-based building, but very little else.

 

But due to the many superficial similarities, DU will most probably always be labeled as "EVE on steroids" by the general gaming public, simply because there's no other MMO to compare it to.

We have no idea how the target locking mechanics work considering we aren't going to see combat till late alpha or beta

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