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So many organisations....

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sigh le sigh.

 

 

So I'll take this seriously. I'm trying not to cringe. Here we go.

 

If you want to suggest a way to eliminate spam organizations, you are too late to the table. Spam organizations are currently here for a primary reason of the game not being released yet. Due to the fact that this is a subscription based game, spam accounts are not likely to be filling organizations by the hundreds. This would cause a very big problem for the person financially.

 

So there is no real problem when it comes to later game. Even if free accounts could join organizations, I'm sure someone will develop a tool to detect if there are too many free accounts in an organization. It is not a problem that I can see causing mass panic.

 

If you are referring to the game as it is now, then you must realize that "paying" for org creation is a terrible idea. This would limit the creative freedom on the community and while it would do some good, it will mostly hurt. Again, you must realize this before suggesting "make it a paywall!" to the entire community. 

 

 

Now, onto another subject....

 

I would just like to point out some irony here.

 

The other day, this was released https://github.com/malignantz/DualScraper/

 

I downloaded the data.json file and got to work on making a small little script to read through what I suspect to be alts of organizations. It's a lovely python script and here's how it detects "suspected alts".

 

I look through the members of an organization, compare it to the member list, and read the following:

 

Does the user have a pledge?

Does the user join after the day their account is created?

 

And if none of those are true, they are marked as a "suspected alt" that I can then output as a number. Now this data is about 11 days old(at the time of writing) and so the data is a bit out of touch with the current events. However, I determined that the number of suspected alts was 66. Now, at that time, The Void Republic member count was 74. Take what you want from that, but it's not appropriate for this to be the case.

 

 

Now, I have given these scripts to a select number of people(such as Cybrex) so that they may do their own investigations.

 

My point is that I'm not really putting up with these types of posts anymore. The solution will eventually fix itself so we must wait for that time.

 

Hello MasteredRed. I can understand your point of view on the forums and your attitude towards The Void Republic. However, pointing out "false" info to stir up trouble among the forums will be at your fault. You state you aren't accusing a organization of having alts, but you're clearly stating a invalid fact about The Void Republic. Here's some advice... Just because you dislike The Void Republic doesn't mean you try your best to find False negative information. Now, please understand that many organizations are infested with alts. It's not a New problem. The Void Republic however, doesn't have any where close to 66 alts and I am sure we all know that. I also understand when you say Suspected alts they aren't proven in your book. Still, this system or program you're working on is currently not working too well from my opinion.

 

If you have any questions about Alternate Accounts and which organizations have them, The Community managers already know all of this. They haven't taken any actions, but they're aware. The Void Republic has a very low amount of alts as far as I know. I can't nor anyone else can't control people creating alts. Examples: Spies, Member Boosters, etc.

 

Thank you for trying to solve the problem, but please keep working on your program.

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Hello MasteredRed. I can understand your point of view on the forums and your attitude towards The Void Republic. However, pointing out "false" info to stir up trouble among the forums will be at your fault. You state you aren't accusing a organization of having alts, but you're clearly stating a invalid fact about The Void Republic. Here's some advice... Just because you dislike The Void Republic doesn't mean you try your best to find False negative information. Now, please understand that many organizations are infested with alts. It's not a New problem. The Void Republic however, doesn't have any where close to 66 alts and I am sure we all know that. I also understand when you say Suspected alts they aren't proven in your book. Still, this system or program you're working on is currently not working too well from my opinion.

 

If you have any questions about Alternate Accounts and which organizations have them, The Community managers already know all of this. They haven't taken any actions, but they're aware. The Void Republic has a very low amount of alts as far as I know. I can't nor anyone else can't control people creating alts. Examples: Spies, Member Boosters, etc.

 

Thank you for trying to solve the problem, but please keep working on your program.

 

1. There was nothing fake in Red's post, he just stated what came out of the program, which in itself outputs probabilities

2. Spinning negative propaganda about TVR is pretty close to the bottom of the priority list in the DUA

3. You can control the number of alts in your org, because you run the org and you have to accept member applications

4. The fact that you think Red's program is meant to target you specifically is quite self-centric. He published this just a moment ago: LINK. Feel free to go look through it to make sure it is non-biased. And the next time you try to say that Red is stating false information about you and your orgs, maybe you should try talking to him first.

 

Have a nice day.

;)

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1. There was nothing fake in Red's post, he just stated what came out of the program, which in itself outputs probabilities

2. Spinning negative propaganda about TVR is pretty close to the bottom of the priority list in the DUA

3. You can control the number of alts in your org, because you run the org and you have to accept member applications

4. The fact that you think Red's program is meant to target you specifically is quite self-centric. He published this just a moment ago: LINK. Feel free to go look through it to make sure it is non-biased. And the next time you try to say that Red is stating false information about you and your orgs, maybe you should try talking to him first.

 

Have a nice day.

;)

 

The info has a "chance" of being true, however, it's about as close as it gets to false(I know there's not 66 alts).....

 

Plus, we are aware you do not like The Void Republic.... Again not New.

 

And no one can control the number of alts inside their organization, Unless the alts are owned by them. (they don't know 100% sure if someone is a alt of someone else etc.)

 

Also, many organizations (almost all) have alts laying around. Again not New. The way MasteredRed decides how to chose a "suspected alt" doesn't prove anything. If someone joins the community the same day they join an organization, that only makes it a high chance of being a alt. However, doesn't prove that they are. ....

 

Please, if you don't think his statement is targeting The Void Republic in a negative way, then why doesn't he state Possible Alt counts in other organizations?

 

............

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The info has a "chance" of being true, however, it's about as close as it gets to false(I know there's not 66 alts).....

 

Plus, we are aware you do not like The Void Republic.... Again not New.

 

And no one can control the number of alts inside their organization, Unless the alts are owned by them. (they don't know 100% sure if someone is a alt of someone else etc.)

 

Also, many organizations (almost all) have alts laying around. Again not New. The way MasteredRed decides how to chose a "suspected alt" doesn't prove anything. If someone joins the community the same day they join an organization, that only makes it a high chance of being a alt. However, doesn't prove that they are. ....

 

Please, if you don't think his statement is targeting The Void Republic in a negative way, then why doesn't he state Possible Alt counts in other organizations?

 

............

mm. I think you are acting pretty immature here. However, you do have some right to be upset.

 

First, I used the wrong version of the script and put out a broken version. I've fixed that now. You can use it.

 

Secondly, I was wrong in my post prior to this. The suspected alt count was 27 in TVR. Not 66, as that was the number of users who had no pledge and joined on the same date as creation. Forgive me for that.

 

Third, I have run it against other orgs org with an updated version of the script(not public) and have run it against my own organization, finding six of the following users.

 

hambone891 2016-08-02
Zeroscare 2016-08-02
SureStorm 2016-09-12
FastestKiller42 2016-10-16
TheMasterKirby 2016-12-28
 
However, for the user FastestKiller42, he did join the enjin site(at the time), leaving me to believe that he is a real player. For TheMasterKirby, I invited him from Space Engineers and he joined on that day. As for the rest of them, I can't place them. Though that brings that number down to four.
 
I also will not bring other organizations into the mix. I've discussed privately with some about what this application raised. The only reason I brought it up here was to simply deflect back the idea that organizations should be paid for that you suggested. 
 
 
Finally, if I wanted to bring up even more, I could. For an example, I could bring Dual Secure Mercenaries into the mix and give raise to question their suspected alts, but that is a childish thing to do. Trying to attack my claims by questioning my suspected alt count(as well with other orgs) is a childish thing to do.
 
 
 
If you want to continue having a conversation about this, I suggest we move to a discord chat, as this discussion about "who is worse than who" probably doesn't belong on the forums.

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For in-game orgs there won't be a hard limit either because it's self-limiting. No need in any way for some random mechanic.

 

I don't want a hard cap on the amount of organizations, I want a mechanic like most other games have where people can make one organization and have that, instead of being able to own multiple and join multiple. I thought that maybe a hard cap p/player would be more beneficial in the long run than having the ability to make a few per character. 

Because at the moment, thats the way its built. 

 

Though, as it still states on the community site, the current organizations are only provisional and the system hasn't been changed in a while, so who knows. NQ might have a different theory to any of us. 

 

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mm. I think you are acting pretty immature here. However, you do have some right to be upset.

 

First, I used the wrong version of the script and put out a broken version. I've fixed that now. You can use it.

 

Secondly, I was wrong in my post prior to this. The suspected alt count was 27 in TVR. Not 66, as that was the number of users who had no pledge and joined on the same date as creation. Forgive me for that.

 

Third, I have run it against other orgs org with an updated version of the script(not public) and have run it against my own organization, finding six of the following users.

 

hambone891 2016-08-02
Zeroscare 2016-08-02
SureStorm 2016-09-12
FastestKiller42 2016-10-16
TheMasterKirby 2016-12-28
 
However, for the user FastestKiller42, he did join the enjin site(at the time), leaving me to believe that he is a real player. For TheMasterKirby, I invited him from Space Engineers and he joined on that day. As for the rest of them, I can't place them. Though that brings that number down to four.
 
I also will not bring other organizations into the mix. I've discussed privately with some about what this application raised. The only reason I brought it up here was to simply deflect back the idea that organizations should be paid for that you suggested. 
 
 
Finally, if I wanted to bring up even more, I could. For an example, I could bring Dual Secure Mercenaries into the mix and give raise to question their suspected alts, but that is a childish thing to do. Trying to attack my claims by questioning my suspected alt count(as well with other orgs) is a childish thing to do.
 
 
 
If you want to continue having a conversation about this, I suggest we move to a discord chat, as this discussion about "who is worse than who" probably doesn't belong on the forums.

 

 

Thank you for announcing possible information this time...

 

I was not acting Immature, but was taking a stance on what you state is possible about The Void Republic. But in reality you would know in the back of your head that TVR doesn't have 66 alts... So why even announce a false claim like that.... I cannot trust you like I used to because of what you stated. Either way, that's all I got for you.

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Thank you for announcing possible information this time...

 

I was not acting Immature, but was taking a stance on what you state is possible about The Void Republic. But in reality you would know in the back of your head that TVR doesn't have 66 alts... So why even announce a false claim like that.... I cannot trust you like I used to because of what you stated. Either way, that's all I got for you.

sigh.

 

I was reading off of the wrong field. If you run the application, you would figure out how a mistake like that could be made.

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Thank you for announcing possible information this time...

 

I was not acting Immature, but was taking a stance on what you state is possible about The Void Republic. But in reality you would know in the back of your head that TVR doesn't have 66 alts... So why even announce a false claim like that.... I cannot trust you like I used to because of what you stated. Either way, that's all I got for you.

Last I checked you never trusted us, or really anyone aside from you and your org. And Red apologized for his honest mistake, there is no reason to hold a grudge about that anymore.

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And no one can control the number of alts inside their organization, Unless the alts are owned by them. (they don't know 100% sure if someone is a alt of someone else etc.)

 

Also, many organizations (almost all) have alts laying around. Again not New. The way MasteredRed decides how to chose a "suspected alt" doesn't prove anything. If someone joins the community the same day they join an organization, that only makes it a high chance of being a alt. However, doesn't prove that they are. ....

 

............

 

You definitely can control the number of Alts in your Org for the most part. Like you said if you own the alts you obviously know if they are or are not Alts but it isn't hard to find out for accounts you don't own. You just need to do basic research on the account to tell. Most alts in this community are pretty shallow and easy to spot when you look at their account. You accept their application which means before they join, you have the opportunity to search the account and look at their activity on all the DU sites.

 

This said you can't get every Alt, but if you spend any time investigating accounts, you can limit most Alts from joining.

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The info has a "chance" of being true, however, it's about as close as it gets to false(I know there's not 66 alts).....

 

Plus, we are aware you do not like The Void Republic.... Again not New.

 

And no one can control the number of alts inside their organization, Unless the alts are owned by them. (they don't know 100% sure if someone is a alt of someone else etc.)

 

Also, many organizations (almost all) have alts laying around. Again not New. The way MasteredRed decides how to chose a "suspected alt" doesn't prove anything. If someone joins the community the same day they join an organization, that only makes it a high chance of being a alt. However, doesn't prove that they are. ....

 

Please, if you don't think his statement is targeting The Void Republic in a negative way, then why doesn't he state Possible Alt counts in other organizations?

 

............

its not the fact that you have people join TVR and their (sister organizations) the same day they join DU, its the fact that you have like 20 people who joined TVR the same day, and all made on that day. none have descriptions, profile pictures, or pledges. IF YOU ARE NOT SURE WHO IM TALKING ABOUT CHECK ALMOST EVERYONE WHO JOINED TVR FROM (2017-1-12)-(2017-1-13) 

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You cant control who has which alts but you literally have to be dumber than a caveman to not be able to spot alts. seriously. On top of the ones that joined on that day, i havent seen ANY of them being active on TVR, or DSM discord channels. ANOTHER GOOD DAY TO FIND ALTS IN (2016-11-23) ALL THOSE MEMBERS ALSO JOINED ON THE SAME DAY, OF EACH OTHER (THOUGH ON A DIFFERENT DAY THAN THE 92017-1-12-13) MEMBERS

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 Just because you dislike The Void Republic doesn't mean you try your best to find False negative information. 

 

philosoraptor-if-thats-a-double-negative

 

I like this thread. c:

 

Getting back on topic now, no, I don't think that orgs should be limited. While it could make a very small amount of revenue for DU (as a means of controlling one man / not serious orgs), it would be insignificant in value since it is only a one time cost, especially if it's a small fee like $5. Not only that but it could be easily seen as greedy by the player base and that is never a good thing.

 

Also, they don't impact the gameplay, it's just a few words of text, maybe an icon, description, and a little more clutter in the org list; but other than that it's nothing major that would require any sort of limiting by NQ imho.

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I don't want a hard cap on the amount of organizations, I want a mechanic like most other games have where people can make one organization and have that, instead of being able to own multiple and join multiple.

 

Hey Anasasi,

I disagree on limiting the amount of orgs one person can create and manage.

For the simple reason that by allowing it we can create "super groups".

 

Alliances, business ventures etc. would be seriously limited if you cant link up several orgs under 1 person. Am I explaining it right?

 

In game I would not tie org creation to a skill because that would force people into a skill line. I would simply charge a fee upon org creation. If it needs some kind of restriction at all.

 

As for the community portal, I am still of the opinion that the "scoreboard" needs to be calculated differently. Instead of member count it should make a score based on wich org has the most active members. That would handle the alt issue better and add more value to the overall score.

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philosoraptor-if-thats-a-double-negative

 

I like this thread. c:

 

Getting back on topic now, no, I don't think that orgs should be limited. While it could make a very small amount of revenue for DU (as a means of controlling one man / not serious orgs), it would be insignificant in value since it is only a one time cost, especially if it's a small fee like $5. Not only that but it could be easily seen as greedy by the player base and that is never a good thing.

 

Also, they don't impact the gameplay, it's just a few words of text, maybe an icon, description, and a little more clutter in the org list; but other than that it's nothing major that would require any sort of limiting by NQ imho.

 

See, I feel like if they started charging people to create orgs, then outsiders who want to get into the game would be deterred because they would see DU as a money game. There shouldn't be any limit to the amount of orgs because once the game starts, we will know who the real orgs are and are not. These days, with the help of Lord Void and recently Red, we can see more information on orgs so we have no need to limit.

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No but I personally believe that organizations that have less than a specific number of members should be told to have a small number of posts at least because if you censor them by members well, what's big today could be small tomorrow.

Just ask the older players about COPS

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No but I personally believe that organizations that have less than a specific number of members should be told to have a small number of posts at least because if you censor them by members well, what's big today could be small tomorrow.

Just ask the older players about COPS

Yeah it's definitely better to censor them with a post count....

 

Define "player" in pre-alpha please ;)

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