MasteredRed

I'm going to comment.. and honestly maybe this'll be the last comment on the forum. The appeal of Dual Universe started back in the day with networking. We built organizations in our head, put them on paper in discord, and then had final rivaling each other with the hanging out thrown in there. Then we got the game and no matter how hard we tried, we could only pull so many people from the prior networking game into the actual game. It was rough, the novelty could only be enjoyed by so many people during the pre-alpha and alpha launches. Technical issues and the unoptimized state stunted the growth that the game needed. I think DU deserved a better outcome that couldn't be executed for many reasons. It wasn't one mistake, and from the people who've told me a number of what went on behind the scenes, it wasn't a lack of will. It ultimately came down to consistent failures; some failures came from scaling a small team into a larger developer, some came from lack of attention on the game, some came from game play design itself, and some came from lack of listening to community feedback. Some issues killed the game more than others and I don't have the answers for which ones were the worst. To be fair, Novaquark had vision. What I'm commenting in terms of the issues is from years ago now. I hope things change. I'll hopefully download the game again and give it a spin to feel some of the memories come back. I agree with @Firestorm that it's more fun with a group... and I wish there were more groups.

Here's my peace to add to this. Comrad's post brings up issues, but this is his final post. He's been here since the beginning and this is his end. So, instead of a legacy of his final post being about issues, let me recount some of what he did. He was there at the early start of the game. He was active on the forums, paving the way of discussion in the community. Comrad was invited to be apart of ATV, to be apart of this social game and the social aspects of this community. He made an org, a notch to call home for some time, before stepping up into greater aspects of the community. To be present in the time of memes(CSYN undoubtedly) and to be there at the end of others. Comradmoco has helped this community greatly. He helped out and along with yamamushi helped make the Discord a community unlike any other in its hayday. I must tell you all, Comradmoco has spent a great many numbers of hours helping out this community. The official discord, of which he has invested probably thousands of hours, is only the tip of the iceberg. So, with all this in mind, I bid you farewell Comrad! May you find a greater project than this one to jump to o7

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So, I am thoroughly impressed by your response. Apologies for the delay in my reply for I did not decide to look at the forums over the weekend. Now I'd like to dive into a couple counters and corrections. Overall though, you have somewhat convinced me of the economics. Though I still feel that for the meta I hope to see in combat, I prefer for ramming not to be a factor. I could see now that if someone does has a different preference, it makes sense why they could view ramming as being possible and a good thing. To start out, these are good points. The most significant one that I have not considered thoroughly in a while would have to be the lack of automation in mining. This point stood out to me due to experience I've had in mining and helping keep mining going. It is definitely very difficult to enjoy the activity for long. The only thing that seems to be somewhat effective at keeping resource stocks up is having everyone mine a little bit to distribute the load. However, you are correct that it does pose a risk and the only way to sustain it is to have people who are extremely resilient against prolonged periods of boredom and who do kinda treat DU like a second job. It's not... truly workable from my viewpoint to have great swaths of resources always coming in from one organization without extreme dedication. This point, I concede to you fairly easily because you reminded me of experiences that completely confirm this. This I believe to be a good point but it's largely brief. I assume you knew that this point could be expanded on, so I'd like to go ahead and expand on it. You are correct in some capacity that mining ops are easy prey. As well, you are correct that some organizations will own large regions of space to serve as a buffer. However, where this is applicable the most is in rare mining resources. For instance, it makes a lot more sense to build up a buffer for gold, titanium, and scandium than it would for aluminum or iron. Inversely, it appears that for miners that are targeting common resources, it makes sense to just get a small cargo barge, go out and setup to mine, finish and then return with the ore. If you wanted to setup large machines to process the ore on site and maybe setup scanners, it would have to scale so that you could mine more ore. Then as well, the risk would increase. So the point here ties in with the following one. In order to mitigate risk, probably small loot pinatas. :) I seriously have a hard time imagining large transports that aren't in the form of battleships and carriers. It makes only a small bit of sense in terms of fuel economics to transport large amounts of resources. While that fuel is a factor, so is the fact that the target of a large load and accompanying escorts with the fuel that goes with them probably makes the small option worth it. Indeed, smaller is better in this case from what I can tell. Granted, I've only done logistics for a little while now. Admittedly, it's a hobby interest at this point but I cede that the reality may even be more complicated than this. This really is the one thing that I can make a correction on. While there are likely to be markets in sanctuary zones(though I forget how these zones work in entirety), it doesn't make sense from two perspectives that organizations would give up on their own markets. Here are the two from the perspective of an organization which I have thought about heavily. 1. Markets owned in organization sovereign land of course are controlled by them completely; competitive advantages by owning markets are super nice. While not needing to explain this too much, we can imagine that the larger organizations would prefer to have the taxes from markets in their territory go into their coffers to some extent. While they would be incentivized to make the territory around their markets safer and more friendly to those who travel there, this very well can be worth the effort because it does push growth and gives power to the organization. 2. Markets owned by allied organizations can give discounts, deals, and reduced fees to their other allies. This is a major incentive for organizations to support allied markets. Refer back to point one about why the allies would like this. Overall, the push for smaller markets outside of the massive market will be present. Whether or not it succeeds to what extent is luck of the dice honestly. Organizations have reason to make it easy possible for their markets to be accessed. Once again, a good 'ol game of chaotic capitalism will have to be played here. ______ As for the rest of your point following that, I believe this goes back to meta. I personally wouldn't prefer this meta of ramming but your points are valid. Honestly I probably wouldn't mind the ramming either because your points of economic cost from ramming is, from my knowledge, proven correct. Though, at this late of stage, I couldn't see NQ going back on their word or even the implementation of it being very easy. It has been so very much worth my time thinking about it at least.

If you're only wanting construct vs construct combat, then alpha 3 will have that. Avatar vs avatar combat won't be for a while. We're on alpha 2 right now and alpha 3 is scheduled for January this year. So you can assume construct vs construct combat will come in Q1 of this year.

Addressing the main topic I like the idea of customized missiles. It's a very interesting idea to have depth in weapons customization and the implications, as have been discussed in other forum posts(linked bellow) are very fascinating. link and link On the topic of automated turrets, here is a forum topic that's been commented on recently discussing them. link And on the topic of ship ramming, there are other posts and topics that were created. This is a response from NQ explaining their reasoning in just one of them. I also comment on this in my response to @plmkoi. here @The Nameless very glad to see you on the forums! Hope this provides some history into the goings on of what has been discussed before. Addressing plmkoi's point btw, major groups have committed to do that because of course they have. This is a game. People will overall, go ahead and do whatever they feel like. And on that note With your reference to Lethys, yes he is a major part of the organization, Band of Outlaws. Ya know, the pirate one. I assume you already knew this but just wanted to inform you. Now that those two things are out of the way, let me address more in terms of factors that you are missing. With your reference to ships, manufactured goods, resources, and so on not generally becoming less expensive, you are in some ways correct to a point. At the start of the game, resources will be rather highly priced, eventually though dropping and stabilizing into their perceived value by the players. This value will only continue to lower though, at least for a considerable amount of time, as players advance their skills, develop more efficient systems in their infrastructure, and acquisition the system needed to survive. Once things have started to become, shall we say more developed and refined in the player space, then ultimately the resources will be put into other less immediately essential projects. Resources and manufactured goods are still less expensive than at the start but they are still not lowering dramatically. Now this agrees with your point so far but why did I say that you were correct to a point? It is due to the fact my example doesn't even cover us leaving our starting planet. You see, once interplanetary trade, travel, and transport become things, I can't even imagine predicting the markets. Barely at all. With the inherent reality that resources on a solar system scale can not be estimated at this point, the easiest assumption(and I grant you that this is an assumption) is that over a long period of time, baring the greatest of upheavals, the markets will become more saturated and the prices will fall. Of course they can't fall forever. They will stop at some point. I imagine you could see how at some point in this constructed assumption that insane amounts small investments in the form of counters to attackers adds up. These ramming ships are counters to attacks and, if you wanted to, you could just pile on insane amounts of lead or heck even just raw stone. It's a small initial investment with one not doing much harm, but power scaling ultimately makes this a severe imbalance in the game whilst also making the meta crap.

Nicely done

I have been tracking your org with my fellow org compatriots. This is the one thing I will watch without any interest in joining it.

I can confirm this.

Hey. Unofficial discord is now official.

To respond directly to this, here is the purpose that example went to serve. The answer is no one took full time responsibility. However the time prior was also before the server hit 2,000 members. Thus, my example obviously an over-exaggerated case of what it would now take to replace the said bot to the full extent that it is used. Now, to address the rest of what's been said thus far. If you want to argue that you're running unspecified code when you initiate the auth process, then I'm sorry but you have a little problem going for you when you run DU. I can almost guarantee you that NQ has used at least one open source project in the making of DU. Yet NQ had vetted and checked that code to use it in DU. What leads you to think that they have become this inept at their job in that regards to that. Don't get me wrong. I have particular bones to pick on some other regards however this is not one. You are vilainifying either yamamushi, the bot, or the discord staff. However don't forget that NQ is involved on this as they have rendered their judgement. We have answered your questions. If need be, I would give you a complete 10 page paper on how the bot functions, but honestly its so dang simple that I couldn't write that much on it. Now, the reason I'm being so thorough here is that I understand not trusting software. Just because you don't like who made the software does not mean that the software is bad. Just because yamamushi made the bot does bot mean that the code is any different from how NQ would have made it. Just because a company didnt make the bot doesn't mean the code now is evil. Actually, it's probably safer because there was no deadline on it as in a company and because he as a programmer wanted to do it. Now for the love of anything good, can we get onto something else? I wanted to be asked hard hitting questions about what makes me qualified or why do I love the community.

To go back with that, I would also like to say if you feel that we should not use a bot that is now under NQ's jurisdiction effectively, fine. However we will be fine with you now personally replacing the bot for authentication purposes. We'll require you to take it as a full time job with no pay. Also, you are responsible if you make a mistake, accidentally forget who was authed, fail to account for bans, or so on so forth. My next point. I understand voicing your concerns. However as you probably have recognized, NQ has created this forum post for not just you, but also for the discord mods. The reason being that as is our position between critiques and mods, we are tasked with overpowering you with words, so as you have tasked yourself against us. Our objective here is to understand your concerns and reassure you that we have the same goal for the discord. So, would those invoking involvement in the other side of this also explain their objectives here honestly and clearly? Our goal is to make a good discord server. How about you?

Once again, late reply. The aspects that got me into it was the MMO qualities of a space construction game combined with the EVE online aspects introduced in a 3D environment. Or to simplify, Minecraft meets good Space Engineers with the frosting of EVE Online.

Welcome to DU! Sorry for the late reply

Well sorry I'm late, but welcome to the forums! If you want somewhere to hang out while you wait, there's a couple of places I'd recommend. There's the general DU discord but there's also my organization if you're interested. https://community.dualthegame.com/organization/dua-diverse-unified-accord If you send me a DM through the forums here too telling me what you're looking for, I'll gladly help you find somewhere to go. Once again though, welcome to DU!

lol. I'm looking for organizations who specialize in hiring talking dogs to join us as well. Maybe we can reach an agreement Welcome though! It's great to have you in Dual Universe! If you need any assistance, there are people who you can contact. Like me~!

If you want some help, you can join our discord server. https://discord.gg/hq5bkC8 We're an organization that wants to help new players get started in DU. Additionally, join the general DU Discord server and you can chat with a lot of people after you authenticate. https://discord.gg/dualuniverse Or if you hate Discord, ask for help in other forum sections. Hope this helps!

Right sorry. I'm so sorry I forgot about this rule. I actually didn't know this rule was implimented. I don't think it was originally that way but my ignorance is at fault. ______ Rereading forum rules to catch up on this again.

AdamClapton, thank you for being reponsible as a forum user and searching for topic before making a new one. You are amazing. Also yeah. The idea of the building tool would be cool. Though there may be cheap easy workarounds like coordinates for voxels on the one construct. For different constructs is the kicker and I'm curious of methods will exist for a level or not. As long as it's not that hard to implement of course and a community made construct or script level doesn't work better

This is an afterthought too. I've checked your previous forum thread and can understand your frustration. However I just want to assure you that NQ is going to work on your problem. They try to maintain a close connection to the community but they aren't big enough yet to have fully dedicated support staff. If you have a problem here in the future that isn't a bug, feel free to ask me or anyone else here in the community.

Sorry for the late response here at night. So I was able to recreate your problem! However, I was not able to determine the solution to your problem or the cause. So, here's what I'll do. I'm going to ping @NQ-Nyzaltar and @NQ-Nomad so that they can get an NQ staff member to assist you. They are in France so it may take them a couple hours here to get to work and then get to you. Don't worry though. If you have a pretty good connection then you should be able to participate in the test session. In the meantime, I'm going to get to looking at determining the problem here. I'll let you know if I'm able to help your case further.

Hello WarPig. I've taken a look at the previous topic you've made about the issue here. I encountered a similar issue to what you reported yesterday. A quick couple questions I'll ask to see if I can help diagnose it. Are you still encountering the problem? Does it happen when you enter https://dualthegame.com or just when you try to checkout? Are you logged in on the site? These will help me help you. Also, I'll try to respond as quickly as possible but I'm not at home. I hope we can get this resolved soon for you.

Welcome and glad to see you getting your discord and other stuff up as well! Hopefully you can find a place in the community that is enjoyable!

Welcome to the community! Glad to see you taking the leap that is stepping out of the shadows. Do enjoy your stay and if you need help, contact any one of the wonderful people in this thread.

Glad to see you join the community! Your story is much the same of how I found DU back a couple years ago. Yeah you're right. I was thinking the same. Though we can always support the devs with our feedback to help them speed along! Once again though, welcome!