Kurosawa

As a new Player:
 
Get rid of Blueprints for all Tier 1 and everything you can build in Assemly Line M and lower.
Give the new Players some aire and possibilities.
I would not mind buying Blueprints for advanced Stuff.
Right now it is even hard for me to go to the next Market.
And all i see is "You need the Blueprint".
So i cant experiment.
I want to build a smal ship as i statet in another Post. But how?
The Tutorial wont work. I have no clue what i need.
And for everything i need to travel to the market.
What if i forget 1 wing or 1 brake is not enough?
Waste another 15 min for travelling to the Market?
 
 
And to those who are saying "You can build a better Ship with what you have", plz consider, that new Players dont know how and cant try stuff out, because we cant build stuff!

Though in all fairness, running many players out of the game will indeed slow down progression, so from JC's perspective, he will have achieved his objective.

eeek, TP is the only thing of true value as it represent time spend and cannot be bough and sold else where.

the funny part is this isnt over,wait till they implement power gens,all that work u just did with schematics goes in the trash,now ur building gens to maintain all this u built again, but wait there's more,stay tuned

That's just the thing though.  I didn't support this game to become "game rich".  I joined to make friends, build, craft and work towards a common goal with my org mates.  But now this game is nothing BUT about making tons and tons of money even before you get to do anything else at all.  I already have a real job, thank you very much.  I don't need a game job too.

Like a previous poster, I suffered through all the grind we had before. I did end up building some cool things since pre-alpha.  But now I am told that's not how we play this game.  Instead, I am to choose one or two parts, spend millions of quanta to make them and hope that I don't choose something that gets saturated in the market.  And sell, sell, sell.  Or mine, mine, mine and then sell, sell, sell.  THEN maybe I can build something or fix something.  Meh.

I also did not sign up for Eve Online here.  I signed up for a sandbox where I could build anything I wanted.  That promise has been revoked.  No way in hell my small group of guys will be able to build what we have planned on now.  All we can do is try to make money just to keep the ships flying and the market making money for the rich guys.  I have not logged in for two weeks now.  I have cancelled all DU notifications.  I may or my not come back depending on how the next few updates are handled. 

If you guys wanna play "space billionaire," feel free and have fun.  That's not what I signed up for.
 

You can blame NQ for a lot of things, but being a social platform is not one of them, that is just not their primary goal.
Perhaps you should head over to the DU discord (or some other social network), hell there might even be a discord with voice chat.. teams/zoom ?
 
as for the pandemic that well last until Q3 2021 perhaps even Q4. But don't worry you can do it, you do not disappear or evaporate just because you do not see other people,  you silly extrovert
 

And that is my problem:
 
"take it slow, feel free to experiment"
 
I want and i love to experiment. And i dont need fast success.
But at this point it is useless.
I cant experiment, because i cant build stuff, which i would need to experiment with.
 
All i could do ist mine for hours, then slowly drive (not fly!) to the Market (again and again) and sell in small portions as i have no ship with containers.
But even i have better ways to waste my time, then this

Nice discussion. If i read it all i get the feeling most people think that PvP and Non-PvP as it is now or as it is intended to be implemented both suck.
 
Well, ill just go back to my previous statement, first fix stuff already broken, then go back to kickstarter ideals and from that point just follow the previously known roadmap. If DU works from the bottom up PVP will be the easiest thing to fix. But at the moment there are more then enough issues with the bottom.
 
 

That's what safezones are there for. Where ppl can do whatever they want without pvp 

There are at least two types of players.

Those who like pvp and will engage in different stages of pvp and write stories.
Those who dont like pvp and want to build and create cities and read stories about those who are living outside safe zone.

We need them both for the game to be complete And bubble is needed. This wont be Rust or Ark 2 with no safe zones, etc.

These topics are funny.  A wipe isn't going to put your org on a level playing field with the mega orgs for long.  They'll just exploit the best remaining method of gaining wealth with their superior numbers and rebuild the lead quickly.  It's silly to try for a level playing field where the system just doesn't allow for it.  Bigger wins in this type of game, deal with it.

And a wipe now would be a disaster.  The early game in DU really isn't great now.  I for one will not mine hundreds of more hours just to rebuild everything I have now.   Maybe once the game is feature complete a wipe should be considered.  Right now, no.  Stop asking please. 

The main problem with a wipe, is that DU has active subscription players. So if there is a wipe in a game where players are paying for content that is supposed to be permanent, do the subscription players get a refund? And if not, then what exactly did the subscription players pay for?
 
There is also the problem that a wipe would probably lead to a mass exodus (even more so then 0.23). Speaking for myself a wipe now would be the final death knell for me at least. JC said there would be no wipe in a stream some time ago (can't be bothered to find the exact one), and I have proceeded accordingly. In later streams he has revised to saying they will avoid a wipe if possible, which basically means the same thing. In my opinion the last opportunity NQ had for a global wipe, was the last test release they did shortly before the beta release with subscriptions.
 
And lastly, what exactly will a wipe achieve beside from reducing the already dwindling player count?
I hear a lot of talk about how a wipe will save the economy etc, but I fail to see how. Large org's will do large org things regardless, and 0.23 has only made the divide larger. There has already effectively been a industry reset for all players. So how is a global wipe supposed to 'save' the game? Solo players and small org's will never be able to compete with larger ones regardless. And the titans will soon be able to dictate large parts of the game wipe or no wipe. Especially in a game like DU that has a small player base.
 

Why though?
 
why are people so obsessed with other people's progress in the game.
 
Progress in games like this is cumulative.  You progress over time.  Through patience, and effort.
 
There's no leader board.  No ranking.  You can't be the winner.
 
Just let people play the game. 

Wait? Huh? Not sure who you guys are but this doesnt make much sense. DU also is not a survival game. My goto game is a survival game and it actually has survival elements. I for one do not want DU to become a survival game, there are way better ones that DU will never surpass. 
 
I also dont agree that everyone should NOT be able to build anything they want. You should be able to make everything however, doing that takes time, RL time that is scarce and I simply could not devote the time needed to do everything so that is why I go to the markets. Plus I'd rather buy at a discount then make everything but the issue is allowing something doesnt mean that everyone will choose that course.
 
Real life example - I CAN sail around the world however it takes to long so I'd rather fly. The creators allowed me to sail but instead of making me fly, they let me decide and since my time is scarce, I choose what they were going for anyway but I still have options and can sail and or fly when I want to. See the difference now?

I should start off by saying, this is specifically for the devs & NQ. I'm not trolling anyone on the thread, nor demeaning anyone else.
 
I have tried defending most of the updates, even ones I didn't personally like, because the game is in beta, and there is still soooo much to do before it's released. But the schematic thing is complete bullshit. "That's not how the game is suppose to be played" is a cop-out answer. At least have the common decency to tell the truth and say "we don't care what ppl want, we already got your money, we want this so this is what we're doing...deal with it or f*ck off. We don't care either way."
 
The biggest draw to this game was I could build anything I wanted. I could do anything I wanted. As long as I could imagine it, and I put in the work to get it, I could accomplish it. With or without a group to play with. There were obvious, and large, advantages to playing with a group, but it wasn't necessary to enjoy the game, or to accomplish things. But this latest change, this is the last kick in the juju bees I'm willing to take without voicing my displeasure. And there is no defense for this. There was nothing in the fund raising that said anything about this game being another version of Eve. If I wanted to play Eve, I'd renew my sub and go play. This had sooo much more potential. Me and my group of friends played for 2 yrs, and we still hadn't got a lot of things that we wanted, and hadn't done a lot of things we wanted to do simply because of the time involved in going out to get the materials, refining, skills, etc.....,we do after all have some semblance of a life. But we were still having fun. We were a small group, less than 1/2 a dozen, that played well together, were able to coordinate and accomplish a lot. We could keep relative pace even with the larger orgs. But with this, there's absolutely no point in even logging on. We can't do anything. Go mine, sell it to bots to purchase schems so we can go mine so we can refine so we can sell, so we can mine, so we can refine, then build. Gee...that sounds like FUN! The point is to get together, work for a common goal, ie build a specific ship, building, etc..., and enjoy doing it because we could see progress and the results of our time and effort. Now it's just a grind fest.
 
I understand wanting people to work together. i get it...MMorpg does start with multi-player. However, there are much better ways to encourage it than this abomination. The players seemed to be pretty involved and working together well before this non-sense. The dev's want to slow things down? News flash, it taking months upon months of mining, crafting, planning, and working to complete ONE build is plenty 'long' enough. I even encourage the intricate crafting system. I love that part. The better you are, the more resilient, the more of a product, the less materials consumed or the better a product should turn out. So I don't even have issues with that. But again, making me buy a schem to be able to make it is inane.
 
You don't like the pace at which large orgs were progressing, then do something that would limit them. Not the community as a whole. People will always figure out a way around your idiotic, artificial time sinks. They have hundreds of players to harvest $ from so they can purchase w/e you have set up to try and 'slow' down progress. You still haven't slowed down anything, all you've done is make it impossible for smaller orgs, or small groups of players playing together to be able to do anything except mine. So effectively you've turned all of us into mining slaves for the large orgs. Nice job.
 
If you had put this crap in your fund-raising efforts, instead of the promise to be able to build anything we can imagine, I would never have put out the money to support the game. But since I did, I get to bitch about it on the forums. For all the good it will do.

We only have 1 side of the story
 
They even told him he was not eligible for a refund but would review the request anyway
(this one can good both ways, either a fast review = good, or you join the eternal circle of forwarded tickets)

I tried alpha, I hated it, but I did not despair.
I came back a week ago, tried beta, I totally love it, it's going to be a great game!

I just love how there are folks that still talk about industry and producing items means end game. What in the world is end game in a sandbox, you make your own gameplay!
 
First things first, you cannot POOF something out of thin air in industry, aside from oxygen and hydrogen, those people SPENT TIME MINING or BOUGHT THE MATERIALS to build what they want, they don't just pull it out of their asses. Don't act like they have not worked to get what they are building or act like it is easy, flying around and hauling ore solo is no easy task, its tedious and time consuming, WORK WAS ALWAYS PUT IN.
 
Just because you don't have the same amount of efficiency and/or time as them does not mean you should invalidate what they have achieved!
 
Secondly, element destruction should not be in until the server is stable and there are little to no flying bugs because I am sure NQ's support ticket system are exploding just like the ships in game.
 
Lastly, PVP boys try to hold back the salt, otherwise the very people you were harvesting it from the last week will take it all back, we know you're still shafted. But lets be honest the PVP isn't that hot right now till they introduce territory warfare. 
 
 

This is definitely my preference.
 
Not sure how finite ores factor into that, though. Planetary ore regen is needed.

Nice to see that there are some changes planned.
 
"As it was, the current state of the game consisted mostly of isolated islands of players playing in almost full autonomy. A single-player game where players happened to share the same game world but with little interactions."

Well my interactions with players are cut down severely, I only produce for the market now. My dynamic factory is pretty much dead, the whole concept is dead. I can not just produce large amount of the required item anymore. I have to send customers giving me a list of items away and tell them I have a fraction of the things, but 20x the quantity if they want it. The market interface is ,as usual, not helpful. I used to have people come and go at my place all day long, now the place is dead.
 

"We will modify the formula of the schematic prices to make it considerably more affordable for Tier 1 and still challenging and worth a commitment but less intense for anything Tier 2 or above. "

So the whole market will get shaken up again, all prices change. All items that have some profit margin to recover the schematic cost have to be made cheaper to accomodate, wasted fees, wasted time. Again some people will be first to now sell and buy stuff as they hear the news, others see this in 12h and are left out. Reading the discord night and day should not have an impact on success of the players.
 

"We currently lack the metrics to properly assess this return on investment time. We need a player-driven market price for the components and a market price for the products to assess the profit made by each run of a schematic. This will come when the markets start to work as intended, and we can gather more data about them. "

PM me, I have a spreadsheet for everything. Just ask somebody who plays with numbers, not somebody who is busy making videos about the nicest flower gardens in DU.
 
 
"The second important initiative is to revise the role of the Alpha Team Vanguard (ATV), getting them more involved in early discussions about new features and the evolution of the game. We are still defining the framework, so more information will be released as available. "

So the guys with the inside info who played the market, leaked stuff to their friends and are the big winners of the update get more info early. I can’t properly comment on this without getting insulting.

Read the other 80% of the feedback the players gave you.

Care bears didn't ruin anything. 
 
It's NQ's game and they are responsible for development. 
 
The burning urge to blame a group of players for things that they have zero power over is baffling. 
 
The constant whining from people that complain about "care bears" is hypocritical to the point of absurdity. There's no greater group of whiners than these antisocial people that insist that only some people are "real" gamers. 
 
Your entire post is moaning about a group of gamers you hate that has zero control over development that you decided to blame for NQ's mistakes long ago.
 
If you think NQ is being influenced by a shadowy cabal of "care bears"...well, the idea that NQ listens to any player group at all is a bit amusing.
 
Enjoy your mindless ganking, but no one really cares about your boring whining and blaming random players that have zero control over the game's development.  
 
 

Some one dropped an unflushable at District 6. The entire area is being evacuated in preparations for a massive gamma burst to clear the pipes.
But do not worried it is only dangerous if you look at the explosion, do not look.

I dont see how a wipe will solve anything other then making everyone lose all their xp/time invested.
 
Sure resources would be lost, but 1 person will always be out performed by 10 that will be out performed by 100. So in effect no change to the economy in the long term.
Only difference is we have to spend even more time getting xp.
 
 
 

This patch seems to be perfectly in line with most of the others that have come out over the months. Some of the changes are good, or at least expected and understandable, (elements that need to be replaced occasionally, alt f4, & man. tool), however, the problem is that there are some serious bugs that are still in the game that make some of those 'outs' necessary (alt f4) like that bug where an adjuster gets stuck on and sends a ship into a spin, or brakes not working responding. But quit frankly, most of the changes just suck.
 
However, regardless, even with the changes that are good &/or expected, JC just can't seem to resist throwing in a kick to the giblets. The changes to industry will be a deal killer to a lot of people. PvP isn't the reason I played this game. I got into it to build/create things. And part of that was the industries, factories, etc. I don't mind the mining, it's not my fav activity, but it has to be done and I don't mind, although going out to find t4 & t5 now is like finding a virgin in a whorehouse. But the creation of factories, ship design, etc. was what I enjoyed in the game. Now you change it and tell me I have to have schems, and billions of credits on a market that may or may not work. Quit honestly, if I wanted to play Eve, I would renew my sub and play Eve.
 
I don't want to be required to go mine up insane amounts of ore just to turn around and sell it to a bot or someone who will give a 1/10 of value just to turn around and use that money to purchase materials to build buildings or ships. I want to be able to go out, mine, work, design, and create those myself. There are a lot of people out there that detest mining, but enjoy building. They hate building factories, but they enjoy mining or combat/flying. There are players that love to fly but don't like building/designing ships. Let the markets work based on that.
 
/my2cents

Ok, so I reread the devblog...

And realise I didn't misread it in an angry rage-frenzy the first time...

Basically all they have done is added a cost multiplier to the factory units by way of proxy so as to avoid having to wipe mega org mega factories.
Which will exactly achieve the following according economics 101

1) Manufacturers ALWAYS pass cost increases on to the consumers.

ergo... 

2) If you are a consumer (i.e. not in a mega org),  you better mine the fuck out of everything everywhere if you want to to have enough to buy stuff from the markets...




 
Better just put every SP you have into advanced mining and inventory control... Since ores values are now basically deflated by some unknown factor and they are running out, to boot.