michaelk

Unfortunately...after so many years and so much effort, I tend to agree. 
 
I don't believe they will ever be able to deliver on the concepts pitched in their trailers.
 
I do not believe NQ is going to grow (or even own up to its mistakes) so long as it maintains its current leadership.
 
I know some people think that there's huge potential in DU and that things will be great once NQ fixes everything...but you have to look at the last six years of development and ask yourself when this magical future will arrive.
 
Look at the last few months of dev since they launched the paid game...you really think given another couple years they'll have everything fixed up...? 
 
The sad thing is that people are really passionate about this game even with all its failures. The player base is loyal to a fault, and NQ has ignored their own customers to follow JC's ready player one fantasies.
 
They see criticism and imagine a bunch of haters, but people are taking the time to explain what's wrong and NQ is just rolling their eyes and doing whatever their leadership wants...the only point of beta to them was to collect money, because they sure don't care about collecting feedback. 

Unfortunately...after so many years and so much effort, I tend to agree. 
 
I don't believe they will ever be able to deliver on the concepts pitched in their trailers.
 
I do not believe NQ is going to grow (or even own up to its mistakes) so long as it maintains its current leadership.
 
I know some people think that there's huge potential in DU and that things will be great once NQ fixes everything...but you have to look at the last six years of development and ask yourself when this magical future will arrive.
 
Look at the last few months of dev since they launched the paid game...you really think given another couple years they'll have everything fixed up...? 
 
The sad thing is that people are really passionate about this game even with all its failures. The player base is loyal to a fault, and NQ has ignored their own customers to follow JC's ready player one fantasies.
 
They see criticism and imagine a bunch of haters, but people are taking the time to explain what's wrong and NQ is just rolling their eyes and doing whatever their leadership wants...the only point of beta to them was to collect money, because they sure don't care about collecting feedback. 

Long term, removing bots would cause prices to fall, right? 
 
Bots are one of two ways currency gets injected into the game. Without bots, the only way to "print" money is through the daily login bonus.
 
Less currency supply means deflation -- each unit of currency is worth more because there's less of it to go around. 
 
The fact that the game doesn't have a way to print money other than daily login and bots...it's another one of those core design issues that should have been thought about a long time ago. 
 
There's a reason MMOs have NPCs and NPC drops...beyond injecting fresh money into the currency supply, it also makes for many easy gameplay loops.
 
They want everything to be "run by players"? Fine...but they do still need an actual plan which they haven't bothered to make after this many years. Not for the economy. Not for gameplay loops. Not even for basic player interactions like PvP....and that's NQ's core issue.
 
They don't want to plan. They want to be "different", but don't want to think too hard about what those differences actually mean for the game's design and gameplay. 

Long term, removing bots would cause prices to fall, right? 
 
Bots are one of two ways currency gets injected into the game. Without bots, the only way to "print" money is through the daily login bonus.
 
Less currency supply means deflation -- each unit of currency is worth more because there's less of it to go around. 
 
The fact that the game doesn't have a way to print money other than daily login and bots...it's another one of those core design issues that should have been thought about a long time ago. 
 
There's a reason MMOs have NPCs and NPC drops...beyond injecting fresh money into the currency supply, it also makes for many easy gameplay loops.
 
They want everything to be "run by players"? Fine...but they do still need an actual plan which they haven't bothered to make after this many years. Not for the economy. Not for gameplay loops. Not even for basic player interactions like PvP....and that's NQ's core issue.
 
They don't want to plan. They want to be "different", but don't want to think too hard about what those differences actually mean for the game's design and gameplay. 

Long term, removing bots would cause prices to fall, right? 
 
Bots are one of two ways currency gets injected into the game. Without bots, the only way to "print" money is through the daily login bonus.
 
Less currency supply means deflation -- each unit of currency is worth more because there's less of it to go around. 
 
The fact that the game doesn't have a way to print money other than daily login and bots...it's another one of those core design issues that should have been thought about a long time ago. 
 
There's a reason MMOs have NPCs and NPC drops...beyond injecting fresh money into the currency supply, it also makes for many easy gameplay loops.
 
They want everything to be "run by players"? Fine...but they do still need an actual plan which they haven't bothered to make after this many years. Not for the economy. Not for gameplay loops. Not even for basic player interactions like PvP....and that's NQ's core issue.
 
They don't want to plan. They want to be "different", but don't want to think too hard about what those differences actually mean for the game's design and gameplay. 

You can see the investor profile here: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/dual-universe/company_financials 
 
The most recent round of investment came in 2019 for ~$11 million USD. The total raised is about $22 million, but let's focus on that $11 million for now. 
 
Each account pays about between $6.99 and $5.83 a month for access (oh look they added a monthly sub, I thought it was a 3-month min...) 
 
They'd need 100,000 subs to make ~$11mm in revenue in ~15 months (assuming the most expensive monthly sub)...and right now, there's no way they have 100,000 subs.
 
Hell, retaining half that won't be easy IMHO. 
 
Now consider NQ's ~100 staff and considerable server costs -- which they don't operate themselves (freakin' Jeff Bezos seems to profit from anything and everything nowadays). 
 
I highly doubt that NQ's investors are happy when they see the subscriber churn rates. The only way this works if is you have a stable and growing base of subscriptions. 
 
The truth is, NQ did a great job pitching this product to everyone -- even investors bought into this concept and believed that retaining 50k-100k+ users would be easy. 

That is actually an excellent question. I work for a 'cutting edge' company that appears to be spiraling wildly between what the company claims they want, and how they demonstrate it extremely poorly by largely dismissing customers and employees alike. Their excuse is the same 'new company', 'never been done before', 'nothing like it' and such.
 
Even if this were the first game ever created, business fundamentals 101 should logically always prevail. Don't make sudden, unannounced changes in ANYTHING. Make your objectives crystal clear in a report, not one-liners, and never NEVER ignore your customers.
 
I ask two similar questions rephrased: What EXACTLY did NQ learn? What EXACTLY are they going to do to move forward and to avert anything on this scale from ever happening again?

Dude digging into voxelmancy made me hate everything about it.
 
The tools we have to work with feel like playing a game that has intentionally clunky controls like surgeon simulator, I am Bread or octodad. 
 
Voxelmancy as it stands is torture to me. There is nothing that feels fun about it. It infuriating and unpredictable and much of it basically comes down to hours of trial and error till you are able to get the shape that you want. 
 
There is no sane way to defend the current state of the voxel tools. It's not even fair to say that they are unfinished - they are not even tools. 
 
Making good looking ships in DU is about as frustrating as doing needlework while wearing oven mitts.

Unfortunately...after so many years and so much effort, I tend to agree. 
 
I don't believe they will ever be able to deliver on the concepts pitched in their trailers.
 
I do not believe NQ is going to grow (or even own up to its mistakes) so long as it maintains its current leadership.
 
I know some people think that there's huge potential in DU and that things will be great once NQ fixes everything...but you have to look at the last six years of development and ask yourself when this magical future will arrive.
 
Look at the last few months of dev since they launched the paid game...you really think given another couple years they'll have everything fixed up...? 
 
The sad thing is that people are really passionate about this game even with all its failures. The player base is loyal to a fault, and NQ has ignored their own customers to follow JC's ready player one fantasies.
 
They see criticism and imagine a bunch of haters, but people are taking the time to explain what's wrong and NQ is just rolling their eyes and doing whatever their leadership wants...the only point of beta to them was to collect money, because they sure don't care about collecting feedback. 

Unfortunately...after so many years and so much effort, I tend to agree. 
 
I don't believe they will ever be able to deliver on the concepts pitched in their trailers.
 
I do not believe NQ is going to grow (or even own up to its mistakes) so long as it maintains its current leadership.
 
I know some people think that there's huge potential in DU and that things will be great once NQ fixes everything...but you have to look at the last six years of development and ask yourself when this magical future will arrive.
 
Look at the last few months of dev since they launched the paid game...you really think given another couple years they'll have everything fixed up...? 
 
The sad thing is that people are really passionate about this game even with all its failures. The player base is loyal to a fault, and NQ has ignored their own customers to follow JC's ready player one fantasies.
 
They see criticism and imagine a bunch of haters, but people are taking the time to explain what's wrong and NQ is just rolling their eyes and doing whatever their leadership wants...the only point of beta to them was to collect money, because they sure don't care about collecting feedback. 

Unfortunately...after so many years and so much effort, I tend to agree. 
 
I don't believe they will ever be able to deliver on the concepts pitched in their trailers.
 
I do not believe NQ is going to grow (or even own up to its mistakes) so long as it maintains its current leadership.
 
I know some people think that there's huge potential in DU and that things will be great once NQ fixes everything...but you have to look at the last six years of development and ask yourself when this magical future will arrive.
 
Look at the last few months of dev since they launched the paid game...you really think given another couple years they'll have everything fixed up...? 
 
The sad thing is that people are really passionate about this game even with all its failures. The player base is loyal to a fault, and NQ has ignored their own customers to follow JC's ready player one fantasies.
 
They see criticism and imagine a bunch of haters, but people are taking the time to explain what's wrong and NQ is just rolling their eyes and doing whatever their leadership wants...the only point of beta to them was to collect money, because they sure don't care about collecting feedback. 

That's hardly fair. Industry was one of the few enjoyable aspects of this game. So it made sense for players to concentrate on that while waiting for the game to get a more complete loop and content. This is also why the player backlash to 0.23 has been so massive when NQ in their infinite wisdom decided to nuke industry from orbit, before they had added any alternative and enjoyable activities to the game.
 
A monthly subscription for DU before 0.23 was already a hard sell, and after it is more or less impossible to justify.
 

Unfortunately, the current economy depends on this poison. The game urgently needs additional mecanics to generate cash. They are announced but nobody knows when they are coming and if they will be suitable to solve the problem. We are talking about NQ after all.
 
It would at least be possible to reduce the problem with the bots if they would generate orders with reasonable prices (depending on supply and demand and with proper balancing between buy and sell orders). However, JC would need to admit that this is beyond him and consult an enconomist. That's very unlikely.

I suspect the bots are there to maintain some semblance of progression for new players. Aside from the daily login bonus, those bots are the only source of new money in the game. Schematics are a huge money sink, so without money faucets you get currency deflation. Deflation rewards people for hoarding their money instead of spending it, driving down prices even more. This means that a new player would need to mine for even longer before they could afford enough schematics to set up a proper industry.

Taking a break to play through cyberpunk 2077 which I’m loving, since it’s the first story driven, non sandbox AAA game I’ve ever played. Will likely be back in a couple of weeks to see how things are progressing. 
As of now, im just logging in for a minute a day to collect the 150k and keep my skills queued. 

I'm really confused by the blanket silence from NQ.
 
Have they already commented on the patch...or was it only discussed on some random Streamer's channel...? I heard here that there would be a discussion yesterday but didn't see anything.
 
Are they just waiting around until things quiet down?  
 
Yet again, NQ needs to work on communication: "We see that many players do not like this update and are carefully monitoring feedback. We will consider if a rollback is appropriate. Thank you for taking the time to give us honest feedback, which is super generous of our players considering you're all paying for this experience and getting feedback is the whole point of beta! Thank you for your patience." 
 
I've said many times that NQ has an issue with arrogance. This patch and the lack of reaction to player feedback from NQ is not doing much to dispel the idea that JC just doesn't care what the players think because he's smart and we're dumb. No apologies for a rough patch. No comments. No "thank you for being patient as we figure stuff out". Nothing. 
 
For all the love and passion players have brought into this game, it's baffling that NQ isn't more interested in interacting with them beyond listening to JC's voice (if you happen to be a streamer). 
 
Even if DU worked exactly as promised and was flawless...that arrogant attitude just isn't attractive and isn't something I'd want to support. 
 

Hey guys, I appreciate the thoughts about the talent reset. I will definitely be sharing this with the team!

I honestly believe if JC had unlimited money and time, he still wouldn't make a "great" game. It takes experience to design a game. It takes even more experience to design a persistent multiplayer game. 
 
It takes humility to recognize when you're wrong. No amount of time or money will teach humility. 
 
JC wants players to "think differently about the game" -- he doesn't want to understand how his customers play and enjoy the game. Nope, it's somehow our job to change our thinking and play the game in the way he wants. 
 
This won't change in a few months or years after six years of development...the issues with DU aren't just technical or financial but philosophical. We've seen some improvements in how NQ interacts with the community, but ultimately...? NQ somehow thinks the community ought to serve one man's "vision" instead of the other way around. 

The simple solution is to equalize the playing field. 
 
- You know how things are going to change in advance
- You know some players will learn about this early no matter what
- Post it publicly to minimize the impact of leaks -- details will leak no matter what; let the entire player base know instead of a select few scammers 

Meh, let's get back to the topic. Who cares if Johnny is evading some forum rule because they used *gasp* profanity? Not gonna be a forum cop. Granted, I have read Johnny's posts...prolly a bit more involved than just the "f word", lol. 
 
At this point I think it is really clear that the community at large isn't a fan of these updates. Even the normally "let's just post pictures of the stuff we're making" reddit community is not happy, overall.
 
The community is making its voice clear-- now the question is if NQ will react in any way. 
 
Even a simple post saying "we know some people aren't happy with these changes and are keeping an open mind as we experiment with the game balance and carefully monitor these changes" would go a long way. They should have posted that everywhere as soon as the negative reactions started to roll in. "Calm down, we're listening". 
 
As always, it isn't just the game design decisions NQ is making...it is the poor communication and perception that they don't really care to understand the player experience. 

Care bears didn't ruin anything. 
 
It's NQ's game and they are responsible for development. 
 
The burning urge to blame a group of players for things that they have zero power over is baffling. 
 
The constant whining from people that complain about "care bears" is hypocritical to the point of absurdity. There's no greater group of whiners than these antisocial people that insist that only some people are "real" gamers. 
 
Your entire post is moaning about a group of gamers you hate that has zero control over development that you decided to blame for NQ's mistakes long ago.
 
If you think NQ is being influenced by a shadowy cabal of "care bears"...well, the idea that NQ listens to any player group at all is a bit amusing.
 
Enjoy your mindless ganking, but no one really cares about your boring whining and blaming random players that have zero control over the game's development.  
 
 

Care bears didn't ruin anything. 
 
It's NQ's game and they are responsible for development. 
 
The burning urge to blame a group of players for things that they have zero power over is baffling. 
 
The constant whining from people that complain about "care bears" is hypocritical to the point of absurdity. There's no greater group of whiners than these antisocial people that insist that only some people are "real" gamers. 
 
Your entire post is moaning about a group of gamers you hate that has zero control over development that you decided to blame for NQ's mistakes long ago.
 
If you think NQ is being influenced by a shadowy cabal of "care bears"...well, the idea that NQ listens to any player group at all is a bit amusing.
 
Enjoy your mindless ganking, but no one really cares about your boring whining and blaming random players that have zero control over the game's development.  
 
 

Care bears didn't ruin anything. 
 
It's NQ's game and they are responsible for development. 
 
The burning urge to blame a group of players for things that they have zero power over is baffling. 
 
The constant whining from people that complain about "care bears" is hypocritical to the point of absurdity. There's no greater group of whiners than these antisocial people that insist that only some people are "real" gamers. 
 
Your entire post is moaning about a group of gamers you hate that has zero control over development that you decided to blame for NQ's mistakes long ago.
 
If you think NQ is being influenced by a shadowy cabal of "care bears"...well, the idea that NQ listens to any player group at all is a bit amusing.
 
Enjoy your mindless ganking, but no one really cares about your boring whining and blaming random players that have zero control over the game's development.  
 
 

Meh, let's get back to the topic. Who cares if Johnny is evading some forum rule because they used *gasp* profanity? Not gonna be a forum cop. Granted, I have read Johnny's posts...prolly a bit more involved than just the "f word", lol. 
 
At this point I think it is really clear that the community at large isn't a fan of these updates. Even the normally "let's just post pictures of the stuff we're making" reddit community is not happy, overall.
 
The community is making its voice clear-- now the question is if NQ will react in any way. 
 
Even a simple post saying "we know some people aren't happy with these changes and are keeping an open mind as we experiment with the game balance and carefully monitor these changes" would go a long way. They should have posted that everywhere as soon as the negative reactions started to roll in. "Calm down, we're listening". 
 
As always, it isn't just the game design decisions NQ is making...it is the poor communication and perception that they don't really care to understand the player experience. 

It's the internet bro