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Whiskey

Player Council

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I have seen many EVE players looking actively at this game, and I believe a few things can be used/stolen/borrowed from the game.

 

In EVE Online the players vote yearly for members of the CSM (Council Of Stellar Management) The CSM is a way for players to actively have input into the games design and future. All CSM members are players with no affiliation to CCP (Makers of EVE) in order to keep it unbiased. This idea could be adapted for DU in order to allow for direct player input in the making of the game.

 

The Council Of Universal Management (Name needs work for obvious reasons) would allow a set number of players, (Preferably an odd number to break ties)  perhaps 9, to be voted in (bi?)annually by players (Limit of one member on council per alliance, prevents one group from controlling the entire game) to Skype (Monthly?) with each other and with the developers and provide input and discuss ideas in more direct ways than just the forums could ever provide.

 

Obviously this idea isn't perfect or complete, but it could be refined and adapted to help DU grow into its full potential

 

-Whiskey Out

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In fairness, Eve Onlines CSM is a complete joke and is only there to fulfill the epeen needs of those on the board. Let's not forget how "rigged" the voting is by having communities vote brigade for a chosen candidate whether or not you liked them. 

 

Fortunately I think with DU, sure, go ahead and run a player council to manage the cosmos in-game. That'd be much better. 

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I think there will be fractions and smaller gruops who will join forces. It depends on how Novaquark will challange the players and the goals for big cooperations.

 

Maybe you could get the 10 biggest cooperations together, each bringing one member to form your monthly council. The outcome could be shared on a special DU Council channel ingame.

 

I´m exited how this idea will develop during the next 2 years.

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In fairness, Eve Onlines CSM is a complete joke and is only there to fulfill the epeen needs of those on the board. Let's not forget how "rigged" the voting is by having communities vote brigade for a chosen candidate whether or not you liked them. 

 

Fortunately I think with DU, sure, go ahead and run a player council to manage the cosmos in-game. That'd be much better. 

I know it is a joke, sadly, however a new game would be afresh start and the idea was that 1 person per alliance prevents any real rigging of the system, however a fresh start also means it could be completely different, perhaps a way for the Devs to put out a list of say 10 ideas and every player gets a vote yes or no? Something to that extent. 

 

Any In-game Council would be subject to players listening to them, for example two separate groups could create separate councils, but one random loner may choose to ignore both, yaknow? 

 

 

I think there will be fractions and smaller gruops who will join forces. It depends on how Novaquark will challange the players and the goals for big cooperations.

 

Maybe you could get the 10 biggest cooperations together, each bringing one member to form your monthly council. The outcome could be shared on a special DU Council channel ingame.

 

I´m exited how this idea will develop during the next 2 years.

I am very excited too, although my complaint about the 10 biggest corporations is the same as with EVE's, the little guys get no say. For example, the nullsec entities control the CSM and essentially are trying to turn Wormhole Space into a get-rich-quick extension of nullsec

 

Honestly I'm hoping they put a reasonable limit on Corporation sizes, because like in EVE one can easily grow to be to big and essentially stop any little guys from growing against them. Although, given that this game is much larger maybe that wont be a problem. Either way, I hope the little guys wont be bugs in the eyes of the Devs

 

-Whiskey Out

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I think it could work like the United Nations System in CIV 5 with all "important" or just flat out all organizations getting seats and voting on edicts (banning desings, embargos on factions, setting a price maximum/minimum on a recources)

 

The only problem i see with that is that in CIV 5 you were completly restriced once something was banned, for DU a system where you can break the rule should be implemented,

First example:

Someone finds a way to make weapons of mass destruction ->

the design gets banned but some mad empire continues to use and build them ->

the mad empire starts getting embargos and declines to requests resulting in political heat ->

the empire has to take growing measures to assure its power resulting in a whole lot of new gamplay possibilities

 

Second Example:

A recource/weapon/design gets banned ->

But its SO good that the creator starts producing it secretly ->

a black market is created ->

a whole lot of more gameplay options stretching over law enforment/player-driven economy

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I think it could work like the United Nations System in CIV 5 with all "important" or just flat out all organizations getting seats and voting on edicts (banning desings, embargos on factions, setting a price maximum/minimum on a recources)

 

The only problem i see with that is that in CIV 5 you were completly restriced once something was banned, for DU a system where you can break the rule should be implemented,

First example:

Someone finds a way to make weapons of mass destruction ->

the design gets banned but some mad empire continues to use and build them ->

the mad empire starts getting embargos and declines to requests resulting in political heat ->

the empire has to take growing measures to assure its power resulting in a whole lot of new gamplay possibilities

 

Second Example:

A recource/weapon/design gets banned ->

But its SO good that the creator starts producing it secretly ->

a black market is created ->

a whole lot of more gameplay options stretching over law enforment/player-driven economy

I like it, maybe a deal where each alliance/corporation gets a vote?

 

But the point here was for players to have direct say in game design :P

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But the point here was for players to have direct say in game design :P

You still have the oportunity to spread your ideas. In this early phase of the game we, the  "early" community can make suggestions, can share ideas, can give the devs maybe a nice thought that makes DU even greater than it is right now.

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...So I did a bad and started a thread about this very topic without being aware of this thread.

 

Instead of linking to my thread (and thus getting "points" or something), I'll just sperg what I posted here. Feel free to lambaste me at your leisure...

 

 

I've been mulling this one over for a couple of days, and I really think we need to talk about a potentially controversial topic.

 

I want you to understand that I mean no offense, and that I am fully cognizant of the sensitive nature of what I am about to propose. I simply see no alternative.

 

You see, I'm worried about the Dickbutt.

 

Not in any sort of moral or existential way, of course. I, too, can find humor in a classic meme. So, I should clarify:

 

What I'm really worried about are Indestructible Dickbutts.

 

Don't laugh, at least not yet. It's an entirely plausible exploit of the Novark force field. In fact, it even has an acronym to describe the phenomenon: TTP, or Time Till Penis. This is something that occurs in games that allow creative control and an ability to force potentially thousands of people to look at their penises creative endeavors. There is a certain subset of players that simply cannot help themselves. I defy you to deny it.

 

Here's the rub. The crux of the matter is that all players will spawn at the same point, and that point is protected (rightfully so, IMHO) by a force field that prevents PVP. The goal of this force field is to allow both new players a safe spot to get their feet under themselves, and a place for those who simply want to build in peace, unmolested by griefers. The result of this force field may well be 20 kilometers (is that squared? I don't think it's been clarified.) of 60 meter tall penis sculptures that cannot be destroyed because we want an area for builders to be safe from griefing.

 

Still laughing? I bet NQ isn't. This is an all-to-real scenario for a new player, logging in for the first time, two or three years after release...Dickbutts as far as the eye can see.

 

"But wait," you say, "somebody might make BOOBS!"

 

...STFU, and pay attention, ya dingus, that's not the point!

 

The point is there is going to have to be a mechanism to deal with prevent this, and I really only see two possibilities. The first is that the developers periodically comb the area of the Novark force field and delete the vulgar creations, which sounds really ham-handed and immersion-breaking. (Not to mention the fact that I would really need to have a heart-to-heart with myself if that was part of my job.) The second is that there is a player-driven mechanism to weed out the obvious trolls.

 

Now doesn't that sounds nice?

 

The cool thing is that there are two mechanics in place that could facilitate such a process, with a little help from Novaquark. The first is the territory control system, and the the second is the "tagging" system.

 

https://devblog.dual...ritory-control/

 

https://devblog.dual...agement-system/

 

...and then there is this magical third system, called Democracy, which we'll get to...

 

 The Idea is that NQ would sponsor a player council that would be democratically elected to be both a player advocacy group (a la, the "Council of Stellar Management" from Eve), and an in-game rule-making council of governance for the Novark force field protected area. It is this "Council of the Novark freeport" that would be responsible for the tagging system which would dictate who could build permanent structures within the protected zone. The council would either approve of a project, or approve of an architect, or neither, whatever was required/appropriate. This would allow for an aesthetic change in the player base over time by giving the players, as a whole, a chance to vote for their preferred aesthetic principles. Current councils would be endowed with the ability to mark for destruction any construct within the radius of the Novark force field, or something similar (perhaps subject to a player-wide referendum vote).

 

The Pressure Release Valve in this system, as I see it, is the Dev's willingness to consider an in-game "VR" builder-mode. People could always have access to their own building mini-game for "blueprint" development. "Design your shit in a safe-zone, but build it elsewhere."

 

Okay...I'm long-winded, sue me.

 

I'm tired of my ideas...tell me yours!

 

P.S. Like 'dis if you cry e'ry tyme...

 

Thanks, sorry, you're welcome, oh wow,,,flowers!?! ...jeepers.  :unsure:

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Bickdutt. That is all.

 

In all seriousness, I think that over time we can test various mechanics in beta and pick the best, or perhaps consider that players can decide or manage those special areas. Or certain parts of those areas.

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As much as I like this idea for feedback to the devs. I don't think its the best option for deciding things that affect the games community as a whole. I feel that decisions that do affect the community need to come from a source that is neutral and has the community and economies growth/health as the priority. That being the devs. This is IMHO though.

 

I would try to get into said council if there was one. Possible names....

 

Dual Universe Neutral Council of Economics(j/k obviously)

 

Galactic Council of Economics and Management (real suggestion)

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I have seen many EVE players looking actively at this game, and I believe a few things can be used/stolen/borrowed from the game.

 

In EVE Online the players vote yearly for members of the CSM (Council Of Stellar Management) The CSM is a way for players to actively have input into the games design and future. All CSM members are players with no affiliation to CCP (Makers of EVE) in order to keep it unbiased. This idea could be adapted for DU in order to allow for direct player input in the making of the game.

 

The Council Of Universal Management (Name needs work for obvious reasons) would allow a set number of players

 

Sorry, but you guys are pushing this game to be EVE 2.0, which will likely keep those that left EVE in the first place to become new players of DU.

 

Besides, this game isn't a sub based game, it is a P2W game; hence the players with the most $$ in their purchases will likely have the most say from the PoV of the devs. This game is going to be money talks BS talks, because players vote with their $$. IOW, not every player put themselves to carry the same "rights" compared to other players in the first place.

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Sorry, but you guys are pushing this game to be EVE 2.0, which will likely keep those that left EVE in the first place to become new players of DU.

 

Besides, this game isn't a sub based game, it is a P2W game; hence the players with the most $$ in their purchases will likely have the most say from the PoV of the devs. This game is going to be money talks BS talks, because players vote with their $$. IOW, not every player put themselves to carry the same "rights" compared to other players in the first place.

Not sure where that's coming from; the devs have clearly stated on many occasions that this game will be subscription-based with no exchange of real-world currency for in-game benefits. How would this game become P2W as you understand it?

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No to a special player council. It detracts from the openness of idea suggestion we currently have.

 

Election will be a popularity vote or forced votes by unhonorable organisations.

 

We don't need people that have no idea about game design and game theory having equal input to professional game developers.

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What's the prob with having players in such a spot in theory (dunno how it works in EvE)?

 

Especially the POV of the consumer rather than the devs would be interesting and together they create stuff together.

 

Then again you could also argue such official council is a PR tool indirectly, but I like the idea.

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So, you want to be lied both outside the game by good-looking sociopaths and you want to be lied IN the game by good-looking sociopaths to push their agenda. Funny, the other day I was telling a guy that having beds in DU to log out is a bureocratic idea. Guess what, he was an EVE fanboy as well.


My two cents on the matter. Let the Devs decide what's better for the game. If you add a democratic trash-can of douchebags represeent your Wants, you will end up with all sorts of features, like having to go to a bed to log out, while first, you have washed your teeth, having jacked off (to speed up the log out timer, remember, you are going to "slee"). And of course, whatever circle-jerking idea is going to be promoted.


"I want to have my house that is made out of cardboard to be as strong as a bunker made of rhenium diboride when it comes to PvP!"

"But little Timmy, Rhenium Diboride is the strongest alloy known to man! And cardboard is cardboard!"

"OMG! DU IS NOT BALANCED IN PVP! NERF THE LAWS OF PHYSICS!"

And the Council idea in EVE is a total joke. Those dull morons who skype with the developers get to pretend they have input in the game, while the devs get to have a laugh at those elitist jerks. 

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well what ever way you put it but player council to inluence developing how ever nice it sounds makes no sence, you can never satisfy everyone. There will always be the loosing side etc. Also council to decide which buildings to destroy!? COM ON guys! there is no way to awoid bias, and even if there would be non (what is unlikely provided council consists of people actively playing the game) the rest would still like there is.

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You finally see my point of view. Many EVE players want this game to be EVE 2.0 .

 

Actually, I sort of started to sense this a few threads back via other threads. EVE 2.0 was what I hoped this game would not become, but so far it doesn't look that way, which makes me sad, because EVE as a balanced PvP/PvE, would have been such a great game. But the current direction this forum is going shows they do not want that balance.

 

Back to topic:

 

As for council, it is a total waste of time and it only bring on unnecessary issues such as who gets on it, which side, etc etc as discussed in the last few posts. There is no true representation of the players themselves. In the current internet world, we don't need the extra layer of fat that doesn't serve the people they do not even represent.

 

When issues arises, just have an open "ask the devs" thread, and let the devs tally the top 10-20 issues and answer/address them in the forum. I have been trying to keep "the other game" out of this forum, but that is how SC (the other game) does it, and it has been working great on providing direct communication between the playerbase and the devs/CEO of RSI as issues/concerns/ideas are shared/discussed between the players and the devs weekly.

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I think a player council sounds like a great idea. Although it's probably a bit too early to start having those discussions, seeing as how we don't really know much about the game mechanics, and we've seen no game footage outside of the E3 trailer and a handful of screenshots :-)

 

I'd say within a year or two of launch (not alpha) would be a good time for a player council, but we should certainly let NQ show us what they have first. 

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@Yamamushi


Democracy hardly works in real life, you want elitist jerks to have a say in game developement? You think CCP heard "the Council" and made Dust 514? Or they gave a flying flamingo for "the council" when they decided to make Project Nova? Or even cared for "the council" when they shut down Dust 514 servers, or when they made Valkyrie? No. The council is a redundant idea. The devs will nod their heads and it will only force the devs to take time off their own personal hours or their working hours to accomodate people with ZERO gaming developement experience, to bitch about things that won't be changed for their snowflake's sake. Let the devs do their thing. I've seen game devs that heard the players and their games are still in developement (COUGH COUGH STAR CITIZEN REDEEMER SHIP REWORK COUGH COUGH).

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If the Devs want people to have some kind of say or even want to know what people think in regards to improving the game then when the community site is released they should have a section for suggestions for improving the game. based on support of different threads and the possibility of an indivual idea being able to be implemented then the devs can go ahead and implement into the game. or have a large scale vote through the game for players to vote on it. 

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Player input is always valuable.

Sometimes really good ideas can come from the community.

That doesn't mean devs have to materialize every request, especially those which are not compatible with the game vision.

Not listening to the community is as harmful as trying to satisfy every whim in a development process.

 

All is a matter of equilibrium.

So we will try to find efficient ways to gather community feedback in the future.

However, we don't promise it will be exactly as the CSM for EvE Online. 

 

Best regards,

Nyzaltar.

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thanks for bringing back order to this chaotic suggestion filled thread Nyazaltar.

 

i'd like to bring up an idea i got from playing some other mmo, one had this survey about specific game mechanics, which came up again with every 2 level ups but with different topics. The other one had a small quizgame that began for every player at noon, tho in this case it would be ofc. a survey or a suggestions scroll where you can type in your ideas, or have multiple choices as answers.

 

 

Actually, I sort of started to sense this a few threads back via other threads. EVE 2.0 was what I hoped this game would not become, but so far it doesn't look that way, which makes me sad, because EVE as a balanced PvP/PvE, would have been such a great game. But the current direction this forum is going shows they do not want that balance.

 

Back to topic:

 

As for council, it is a total waste of time and it only bring on unnecessary issues such as who gets on it, which side, etc etc as discussed in the last few posts. There is no true representation of the players themselves. In the current internet world, we don't need the extra layer of fat that doesn't serve the people they do not even represent.

 

When issues arises, just have an open "ask the devs" thread, and let the devs tally the top 10-20 issues and answer/address them in the forum. I have been trying to keep "the other game" out of this forum, but that is how SC (the other game) does it, and it has been working great on providing direct communication between the playerbase and the devs/CEO of RSI as issues/concerns/ideas are shared/discussed between the players and the devs weekly.

 

 

im sure you dont have to fear DU becoming eve 2.0, the only thing that will probably remind you of eve are the player made organizations and politics, since ofc, some of them come together from eve. And the combat mechanics would be way different since you dont solo a huge warship and you play in 1st or 3rd person, so pls dont compare the PvP/PvE with eve at all. Only if you start comparing them are you subconciously trying to make it look similar in your own eyes.

 

about the council and the forum as a suggestion thread i totally agree with you.

Ingame councils will only affect those that have anything to do with the entities partaking in the council, meaning a lone wolf on a backwater planet would care more about his pets stool than some ingame councils decicions.

And the forum is an easy and efficient way to communicate between devs and players, just like we do now... and as a bonus the devs dont have to work on another ingame survey/suggestion mechanic.

 

And for those who worry about the Bickdutts please go to the thread where it is being discussed instead of adding more salt to this allready well seasoned soup of a topic.

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/884-the-council-of-alioth/#entry8969

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