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Decided to test asteroid mining and it's much worse than I thought...


Namcigam
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10 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

And PvP'ers almost literally being told by the game where people are mining is not lazy?

It’s the only time in the game where PVPers are able to locate anyone, that’s what’s ridiculous. 

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I dunno I'd be flattered or at least admire the effort they made a honey pot for pvp players and they disrupted the ore ecosystem for pvp players. One "mouse click" worth of ore per hour per mu is garbage & the bigger problem is the amounts of ore on the tiles and the extinction of uncommon ore on safe zone tiles. Yet I hear comments trying to pretend everything is awesome. I dunno if that's ignorance, denial, but aside from hauling destinations Madis & Thades are useless now. That's where I made fuel there was uncommon ore on my tile and the tiles around me. Now making space fuel is end game due the prerequisites the changes caused / created. It costs a lot to fly to lycobus claim 2 tiles set up mu's and containers and refiners the element that makes fuel name eluudes atm chemical something plus the schematics for both. All of that just to make your own space fuel. I equate buying resources at the market like going to a quick mart (7-11 or Sheetz) to buy all your groceries. There's a reason people don't do that. All of that just seems bat shit crazy to me & it frustrates me a lot. 

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44 minutes ago, Shredder said:

It’s the only time in the game where PVPers are able to locate anyone, that’s what’s ridiculous. 

 

That is space for you. As long as people are willing to burn fuel and time to stay outside the pipelines they should be astronomically hard to find.

So NQ either has to completely change how distances, speed and physics work in this game, or start to offer PvP that makes sense and people actual want to play.

 

And yes, I agree warp should not be a free for all. But as long as it cannot be used for missions, there at least is a comprise that goes both ways.

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43 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

 

That is space for you. As long as people are willing to burn fuel and time to stay outside the pipelines they should be astronomically hard to find.

So NQ either has to completely change how distances, speed and physics work in this game, or start to offer PvP that makes sense and people actual want to play.

 

And yes, I agree warp should not be a free for all. But as long as it cannot be used for missions, there at least is a comprise that goes both ways.

If you feel this way about pvp while DU is still in it’s easy mode phase, how you going to be when it’s not? 
 

At the moment the asteroid discover list can be negated by just triggering it and coming back later. The speed changes have not come yet and the outa planets still have safe zone bubbles. 
 

Patch by patch this easy mode comfort blanket will start to fade away. I hope the stockpiles accumulated while the blanket is on does not keep such a negative impact on the economy for too long either. 

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18 minutes ago, Physics said:

If you feel this way about pvp while DU is still in it’s easy mode phase, how you going to be when it’s not? 
 

At the moment the asteroid discover list can be negated by just triggering it and coming back later. The speed changes have not come yet and the outa planets still have safe zone bubbles. 
 

Patch by patch this easy mode comfort blanket will start to fade away. I hope the stockpiles accumulated while the blanket is on does not keep such a negative impact on the economy for too long either. 

This.

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This is indeed they way I feel about the pvp in this game. I know that's what they said they are going to do but if they do they cripple the game even more than it already is. The only way I see to make pvp the way it is now viable is to take a military approach to it. There needs to be military assets in the game created using space cores or perhaps a military space core. With those cores you set a battle station and around your battle station you make strategic military targets that provide a perk for the owner related to pvp. this would create the need for patrol routes etc. because other corporations will have a high value military target to attack which will give them a reward if they take it out. Radar, comms defense constructs missile turrets ect. this would be a good foundation that you could develop further over time. Pvp players need a high value targets that provide rewards something like that could make that possible. The irony is I actually enjoy pvp just not in this game. 

Edited by Namcigam
typo
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5 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

It's not about not having any risk at all, but about having a reasonable chance of avoiding PvP if you use some smarts and tactics.

Right now you don't see any PvP'er complaining about the broadcast system, and that is because they are holding all the cards.

 

Are you kidding? I'm a pro pvper and I think the broadcast system is stupid. I think the dsat is stupid, and I know other pvpers who think fhe same way.  We want a better radar system used for exploring all that empty space. That way maybe you are on an asteroid for 10 hours and no one shows up, maybe 30min? Would be an infinitely better system and get more people in the pvp zone.

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5 minutes ago, Namcigam said:

In that scenario the risk out weighs the gains no one will do it and you would be back where you are right now.

 

You don't know, you don't hold all the cards on what would or wouldn't happen. Stop acting like you know everything.  A system to scan a few su around you (10-20) where the results weren't perfect and needed to keep going closer and scanning would be better, for miners too, and explorers, and for pvpers. Ad it would require you to be active and out flying in space.  And if you are a miner 100su off from Jago and found a rich asteroids how can I find you without getting within 20 su? And even you yourself could occasionally scan to see if anyone is near you, then you could create a gameplay where your "signature" was bigger or smaller than that 20su based on how you build your ship, with good pluses and minus for that build to be balanced. 

 

Once you have that foundation radar in play you can use that to continue to add content such as the wrecks, anomalies, deep space stations with shields and timers for bases, and other Points of interest.  That is way better than the system we have now. 

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17 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

You don't know, you don't hold all the cards on what would or wouldn't happen. Stop acting like you know everything.  A system to scan a few su around you (10-20) where the results weren't perfect and needed to keep going closer and scanning would be better, for miners too, and explorers, and for pvpers. Ad it would require you to be active and out flying in space.  And if you are a miner 100su off from Jago and found a rich asteroids how can I find you without getting within 20 su? And even you yourself could occasionally scan to see if anyone is near you, then you could create a gameplay where your "signature" was bigger or smaller than that 20su based on how you build your ship, with good pluses and minus for that build to be balanced. 

 

Once you have that foundation radar in play you can use that to continue to add content such as the wrecks, anomalies, deep space stations with shields and timers for bases, and other Points of interest.  That is way better than the system we have now. 

 

Your search for voluntary victims will be be daunting, I wish you good luck. 

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9 hours ago, Shredder said:

There are asteroids in the safe zone as well.

 

Am I playing a different game?

 

I view the safe zone asteroids as a new player thing the asteroids don't have much ore in them. It seems like to me that one person could mine an asteroid with as little as four large containers maybe less like two. I am guessing but its not much and I get the sense you could do it one trip maybe two so more than one person mining an asteroid isn't going to be very good it's better to players that cant afford a scanner mine those.   

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2 hours ago, Shredder said:

People like this just want to play minecraft, there is no version of pvp balance that would make them happy, except for a button which enables and disabled pvp. 

 

Not true, I'm not sure why these topics are always black or white absolutes, I'm talking about shades of gray there is plenty room for both play styles in this game. That is the way to get more subscribers. Appeal to both play styles within the game. That is all I'm saying. I want pvp to be fun and rewarding for you I just don't think this is the way to do it & it is just my opinion, I don't know everything never claimed to. Before this update I said very little in the forums and now I am a rank 6 enthusiast. If I didn't care about the game I wouldn't say anything...

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Use your good ship to track down the asteroid. Dont land. just find the last location. Go back to your space station and land. Now get out your cheap space only ship does not even need the Dsat on it. One you dont care about losing. Now fly back to that asteroid and start mining. If you do get shot down, your not losing very much. You could even get blown up 9 times out of 10 and still make a profit. (granted the reality is you wont get shot at very often). 

 

Next up watch where you are mining.  You start mining an exotic 23 SU from a planet, people are generally going to show up and see whats out there. You got to an uncommon that is 150SU out people are not generally going to bother (not guaranteed as bored people will still check it out if nothing else is going on).  Also consider what planets you are mining on. Some have more PVPers then others. 

 

You also have the safe zone (dont forget you can use the filter option to only sort threw asteroids that are in the safe zone). 

 

Yes the PVP zone asteroids where put out there as a honey pot for PVPers, But it is not required, and the risk can be mitigated. You just have to weigh the risk vs reward for yourself. 

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On 2/5/2022 at 3:27 AM, blazemonger said:

The whole mechanic is just badly designed unless the intent is to allow PVP players to know someone landed and go pewpew.

 

You are correct. The intent IS to allow PVP players to know someone is landed and let those PVPers who don't like a challenge to get their seal clubbing action on or those PVPers who do like a challenge know to look elsewhere.

 

It's also apparently designed to lower the server load by reducing the player base since nobody I know of seems to find the system particularly compelling.

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That's not what forums are for my child... it's for useful feedback Like for example. this carebear actually knows the pvp mechanics I'm simply pointing out that it's really bad and I'm giving examples and I'm explaining why it's bad. What was your contribution again? oh yeah that's right toxic insults. Thanks for your contribution.

Edited by Namcigam
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There have been a lot of topics about PvP made by a lot of different players. Some with a lot of experience.
 

NONE of his feedback was taken into account by NQ for adding PVP content.
 

Really at no time did the PvP crowd have any content come from our complaints.
 

So there are several trolls here:
- Players who play the game little or no longer play the game at all and who comment on it.
- Players with no legitimacy in PvP and who have never made a single effort in the game in the military field.
- And those who continually insult PvP players for being the source of all Dual Universe problems due to the many non-existent updates made for PvP players.

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2 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

- Players who play the game little or no longer play the game at all and who comment on it.

If DU was an established and thriving game with a solid player base, then that would make sense.

 

But right now it is more of a logical fallacy, since DU is a game that is struggling and loosing players.

So what would be in NQ's best interest? Listen to why people are leaving and change the game so that players want to come back, or just continue doing the same old?

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I LOVE asteroid mining.  I've mined ores I never had access to before because of it.  If they didn't have asteroid mining, I'd have very little to do. There are what I feel tactics to it all which I won't delve into here, but you should be able to mitigate attacks.

 

If you can develop a asteroid mining strategy, you'd see that it's a million times better than MU's...I only use MU's for Tier 1 ore now. I hope they don't change a thing.

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If you use the word "carebear" you probably don't have anything interesting or useful to say. Try articulating a point instead of reaching for lazy mischaracterizations. Childish slurs don't help you sound informed. They make you sound like an idiot. 

 

Most people that play DU recognize that PvP is vital as there's no other source of conflict in the game...and every game needs some sort of conflict to work.  

 

NQ is going to move PvP in whatever direction makes the most sense for them in terms of ease of development and mainstream appeal...There is no inevitable "toughening" of PvP or removal of safe zones because NQ isn't sure if that makes sense for the player base and longterm appeal.

 

As of right now, that's still very uncertain. NQ isn't sure what directions to take PvP...even after 8+ years. If they were sure, perhaps we'd see some actual development instead of laughing at the myth of things like Avatar vs. Avatar or even Territory War. 

 

3 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

So there are several trolls here:
- Players who play the game little or no longer play the game at all and who comment on it.
- Players with no legitimacy in PvP and who have never made a single effort in the game in the military field.
- And those who continually insult PvP players for being the source of all Dual Universe problems due to the many non-existent updates made for PvP players.

 

Hmm, vexing. Because PvP can't be discussed for five seconds before someone is calling someone else a "carebear" for articulating an opinion...I don't see many personal insults in the other direction (not as frequently anyway)...but regardless, childish behavior makes you look deeply stupid no matter your perspective. 

 

That said, I do agree that NQ has spent the vast majority of their time not developing PvP...and that's really the most fundamental issue with PvP. NQ just hasn't developed it.

Edited by blundertwink
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1 hour ago, blundertwink said:

If you use the word "carebear" you probably don't have anything interesting or useful to say. Try articulating a point instead of reaching for lazy mischaracterizations. Childish slurs don't help you sound informed. They make you sound like an idiot. 

 

Most people that play DU recognize that PvP is vital as there's no other source of conflict in the game...and every game needs some sort of conflict to work.  

 

NQ is going to move PvP in whatever direction makes the most sense for them in terms of ease of development and mainstream appeal...There is no inevitable "toughening" of PvP or removal of safe zones because NQ isn't sure if that makes sense for the player base and longterm appeal.

 

As of right now, that's still very uncertain. NQ isn't sure what directions to take PvP...even after 8+ years. If they were sure, perhaps we'd see some actual development instead of laughing at the myth of things like Avatar vs. Avatar or even Territory War. 

 

 

Hmm, vexing. Because PvP can't be discussed for five seconds before someone is calling someone else a "carebear" for articulating an opinion...I don't see many personal insults in the other direction (not as frequently anyway)...but regardless, childish behavior makes you look deeply stupid no matter your perspective. 

 

That said, I do agree that NQ has spent the vast majority of their time not developing PvP...and that's really the most fundamental issue with PvP. NQ just hasn't developed it.

This is a great post.  Name calling doesn't get anyone anywhere. It alienates people from voicing their opinion in the future too.

 

I see this from all sides, as this is really boiling down to a architectural design issue.  The dirty secret is that the industrial, shop type players *need* PvP players in the game. What's the point of producing all that stuff with ore if there's no destruction of said parts? In the end, you just get a bottle neck of parts with no destruction / decay.

 

The builder types need ore too, but really aren't fighters lol, so they can get mad when they're ganked. They're flying in PvP space, so the complaints illicit a response from the PvP'ers and yadda yadda yadda, arguing. 

 

I do hope that NQ does a major overhaul of the PvP mechanic.  I want to see PvP succeed and be fun for that play style in the worst way.  It's the life blood of a game where they have such robust industry like this one.

 

Last year this time I was flying to other planets praying I got my hands on some T3 or T4 ore, as scanning was boring as h.  You wanted gold nuggets?  Good luck...Asteroid mining has been so much better imo. It's kind of a surprise which ore you're going to get, it's fun to go out with friends and mine them once you've scouted them and discovering them for your corp has been enjoyable too.  I would rather have this system, even in the chance you could get ganked, 100 times over than this time last year. It is absolutely an improvement over what was.  And OP, I'm not attacking your opinion, just stating mine.  You do raise valid points in your post.

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