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[FAQ] Anti-cheats and choosing EQU8

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1 minute ago, CommanderLouiz said:

I noticed the other day while troubleshooting Factorio that EQU8 made some rules in my firewall. Not unusual, most game I've installed do... for inbound connections.

 

Only EQU8 made rules in the outbound direction in my firewall. Not even other Anticheats I've installed have outbound rules.

So I'm curious as to what it does, and why it's needed. I know you probably don't know the answer, but maybe you can bring it up with EQU8.

uh... outbound is literally nothing xD. all it mean is that equ8 didnt want to be blocked when sending data to the server. 

 

In most setup, you dont even need an outbound rule to send data. its just the most agressive firewall settings that will require it. So im guessing its merely there "in case" its needed. 

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There's a player I know of, they've been a very financially supportive player of DU for some time now.

 

If playing more than one account simultaneously actually means you are not allowed to multi-box then Novaquark has truly just given the most amazing insult to an individual that has personally invested thousands of dollars in support of their dream.

 

Maybe this individual does not feel that way, I do not know. I would be heartbroken to have given that much and be handed a pink slip for that many accounts, additionally facing a ban (of potentially monsterous proportion) if I chose to play as I enjoyed anyway. I have not supported at this level, and doubt many could, but still I'm disheartened at the thought of my handful of accounts being restricted in this way.

 

I genuinely hope that a more precise explanation will be provided and that it also reveals that true multi-boxing is not a problem, but rather multiple accounts in use on one machine is the actual activity being prohibited.

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5 hours ago, LowjackTzetsu said:

Would players utilizing Linux or some flavor of Linux still be able to use a virtualized architecture featuring Windows as the main OS or is this going to inhibit those who are using virtual machines to bypass the need for Wine?

EQU8 runs fine in a Windows VM. I use in on Shadow without a problem.

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5 hours ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:
  • The launcher currently requests administrator privileges on each launch. This is a bug which will be fixed soon.

I guess this was written a while ago as this was already fixed. ;)

 

 

Quote
  • Playing at the same time with two or more accounts is forbidden (having several accounts is fine as long as you only play with only one at a time).

Unless clarified otherwise I will take this as relating to how EQU8 is set up and thus is missing "on the same machine" since the launcher does not allow multiple logins anyway and can't be run twice. Running an instance with a different account on a separate PC or in a VM at the same time would not fall under this. It seems odd for NQ to have actively promoted/driven backers to create multiple accounts to buy additional pledges to then tell them they can't use these at any time (with the restriction of being run on the same machine at the same time).

 

Please clarify @NQ-Nyzaltar, and thank you./

 

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I support the decision to protect Lua files and prevent loading any DLLs. Anticheats can't protect anything unless this door is closed. There is no way to control what native libraries do.

 

NQ should add native implementations of some commonly used and time-consuming features into the Lua library, like native JSON encoding/decoding, cryptoalgorithms and key stores.

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9 hours ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

 

  • Sharing accounts between different people is forbidden. Any action performed on your account is the responsibility of its owner. The Customer Support team won’t be able to help regarding any issues happening due to account sharing. The owner is responsible for any action made with the account.

 

What happens to cheaters ?

  • Our policy is to not issue automatic bans. There is always a human review when the anti-cheat system detects any unauthorized behaviour. Nonetheless, you may temporarily be kicked out of the game if the anti-cheat cannot initialize correctly.
  • Sanctions include (at the discretion of the Novaquark team):
    Removing access to the game, temporarily or permanently (aka ban),
    - In case of recurring offenses, the player may get a hardware ban (in this case, the player won’t be able to play the game with any current or future account, even if those accounts were never used for cheating).
    - Plus any action required to revert any change made to the game world (removing Quantas or items, restoring constructs state, etc.).
    - This list is not exhaustive and may be updated by Novaquark as the team sees fit.

 

With the owner being responsible for any actions performed with the account. Could it be confirmed when 2FA will be added to the game to better protect our accounts?

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We should consider starting a GITHUB collab initiative,  at first a simple directory to interesting repos and tools made by players and oficial NQ-DU things. That way we can scale what is allowed and what is not...and to share and teach with others ;)

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10 hours ago, UnknownJJ said:

Modifying the game cache is forbidden     Question so When NQ tells us to delete the cache file then we can get banned?

The game, obviously, can modify the game cache. And you can click in the "in game" option to clear cache. 

 

But you cant go to the windows folder and delete it. 

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10 hours ago, WildChild85 said:

I am actually quiet disappointed how coders get ignored and handled like 2nd class people.

Im a coder and i agree with NQ. 

It as allways been quite clear that C loading in lua was game breaking and not allowed. 

I warned you guys about this. 

But you needed writen proof from NQ. 

Here it is. 

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13 hours ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

 

Quote

Playing at the same time with two or more accounts is forbidden (having several accounts is fine as long as you only play with only one at a time).

 

 

can you please re word this so it clarify what this can and cannot do. I had to go on chat and get my concerned addressed. I have others in the house hold that is planning to play this game and they have their own pc's. This did not assure me they can play at the same time on their computers under the same ip address. Someone in NQ had to go back and clarify this and get back to me hours later. I was not the only one that was confused by this. Others in my Orq I am in had the same concerned. Also I got DM by others asking me to let them know of the answer from NQ.


Please modify this to be more clear.

Thank you.

 

13 hours ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

 

 

 

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On 8/27/2020 at 12:24 PM, joaocordeiro said:

Im a coder and i agree with NQ. 

It as allways been quite clear that C loading in lua was game breaking and not allowed. 

I warned you guys about this. 

But you needed writen proof from NQ. 

Here it is. 

The problem is not, that they don't allow it. That was clear and I agree with NQ, too.

 

The problem is, that they don't deliver required features!

 

Read exactly what I wrote before making such comments.

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On 8/27/2020 at 5:10 PM, WildChild85 said:

The problem is, that they don't deliver required features!

While i'm very glad that coders are making insane things here, its also normal to play the game with the same rules as anyone else. Indeed their is still needed features for the game, but its BETA and their is a lot of more needed features for the majority of people. Coders are not second hand, they're just not on top of other players.

I can really understand the frustration of seing lot of things you made and invested yourself in being not allowed anymore.

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On 8/26/2020 at 8:14 PM, Kane Hart said:

This rule existed in so many MMORPG's over the billions of years since they existed. I have a feeling this be used more against people who are using it in abusive nature.... But I like to see some clauses like keeping LUA Scripts going at a base, etc. 

Except for eve online which you can freely run 20-30 accounts at the same time off the same launcher lol , black desert online , world of warcraft ,  and probably a lot of other games .

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I'm a new subscriber.  I just subscribed for an entire year.

 

So far, the anti-cheat software has:

 

1)  Stopped me from using my normal email, and many other users (apparently) who have been playing the game now for some time now can't use their account.

2)  I've downloaded the game repeatedly and the launcher verifies my files, but then just stops and deletes the ingame ZIP game file, so I'm stuck in an endless download loop.

So whatever the  anti-cheat system they have here IT REALLY SUCKS.  I'm not a cheater.  I'm just trying to play the game on Windows 10.  Seems like I'm asking for too much.

PS:  It's been 4 days and I've yet to receive a single response to tickets I have submitted.
 

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On 8/27/2020 at 1:31 AM, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

EQU8 is not compatible with Linux / consoles

 

Unfortunately, EQU8 does not work under Linux, even with Wine. This is due to the Windows functions it uses to protect the game’s integrity, which are different from other operating systems. This is a trade-off we had to make between having a fair game (without cheats) and compatibility.

 

Most players and games are on Windows. Thus, very few anti-cheat solutions support Linux (even less with good support). Because of this, we did not find an anticheat solution which works on Linux and suits our needs. However, please note that this decision doesn't prevent us from adding an alternative anti-cheat solution in the future, in case we decide to officially support Linux systems or consoles later on. Nothing prevents us from having a different anti-cheat for each platform. 😎

 

I am a Linux gamer. I got the Launcher running with Wine. It downloaded the game, unpacked, checked integrity and kept crashing and deleting its progress. Then I noticed the EQU8 integration in the updater. All the other games I play run perfectly fine on Linux. The ones that don't are usually the ones with DRM or anti-cheat integrations. I can get rid of DRM, but not anti-cheat in multiplayer games.

 

Dual booting sucks. Now I pop up in your statistics as a "Windows Gamer". I guess there are many others like me. Please don't abandon your future plans about Linux.

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Hypothetical here, does this mean if I build a robot hands to use my mouse and keyboard and robot eye to watch my screen, I'd be allowed to automate stuff that way?

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Could we get an official response to this YouTuber's very public statement about simultaneous two-boxing being allowed, and that he was told by an NQ employee that it was allowed? 

 

image.thumb.png.b97afc4414848c04ca3a9c46f3e52efc.png

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On 10/12/2020 at 11:30 PM, Context said:

Hypothetical here, does this mean if I build a robot hands to use my mouse and keyboard and robot eye to watch my screen, I'd be allowed to automate stuff that way?

 

I'm seriously asking, I need to know if this will be allowed or not.

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I don't understand how people can fail to interpret a rule like this, and instead make excuses for breaking it.

  • Playing at the same time with two or more accounts is forbidden (having several accounts is fine as long as you only play with only one at a time).

They don't specify "unless you're using a different computer" because they don't need to specify it. They also don't explicitly tie it to EQU8, because they don't need to. They very explicitly state "Playing at the same time" and "having several accounts is fine as long as you only play with only one at a time." There is no "but what if" about it. There is no creative interpretation. It is explicit. They give the rule, and the ONLY caveat to that rule. YOU can have multiple accounts, but YOU cannot play more than one at a time, REGARDLESS of how many computers you want to run it on. That doesn't mean that OTHER people cannot play on the same IP at the same time, just that YOU cannot play "at the same time with two or more accounts."

 

Again, I don't understand how people can't comprehend what is very explicitly stated. It's like this one time I was telling a guy to follow a clearly defined path, and he looked confused and tried to go off the VERY CLEARLY DEFINED path. It's not rocket science. It's "you're either playing one account at a time, or you aren't playing one account at a time." There is no middle ground, no gray area, no exception that can possibly be puzzled over. You're either following the clearly defined rule, or you're making excuses for trying or wanting to break it.

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On 10/25/2020 at 9:44 PM, Dakanmer said:

I don't understand how people can fail to interpret a rule like this, and instead make excuses for breaking it.

  • Playing at the same time with two or more accounts is forbidden (having several accounts is fine as long as you only play with only one at a time).

They don't specify "unless you're using a different computer" because they don't need to specify it. They also don't explicitly tie it to EQU8, because they don't need to. They very explicitly state "Playing at the same time" and "having several accounts is fine as long as you only play with only one at a time." There is no "but what if" about it. There is no creative interpretation. It is explicit. They give the rule, and the ONLY caveat to that rule. YOU can have multiple accounts, but YOU cannot play more than one at a time, REGARDLESS of how many computers you want to run it on. That doesn't mean that OTHER people cannot play on the same IP at the same time, just that YOU cannot play "at the same time with two or more accounts."

 

Again, I don't understand how people can't comprehend what is very explicitly stated. It's like this one time I was telling a guy to follow a clearly defined path, and he looked confused and tried to go off the VERY CLEARLY DEFINED path. It's not rocket science. It's "you're either playing one account at a time, or you aren't playing one account at a time." There is no middle ground, no gray area, no exception that can possibly be puzzled over. You're either following the clearly defined rule, or you're making excuses for trying or wanting to break it.

 

 

Uh... clear this up for me - so, how do they know it's ME playing on two accounts, on two different PCs, and not myself and another person in the same household? As long as a different email is used to register each individual account, that is. Also, I never installed or played DU on his laptop (I was honestly surprised it ran so well, when walking him through things, for the first time.), so none on my credentials are on his machine.

 

The reason I ask; I sent my son a beta key to HIS email, because he wanted to play DU with me. He installed the client on his own laptop, using his own login. However, a few minutes after playing, we both got constant disconnects (which stopped when we both tried playing at the same time, and no our internet isn't shit)- I can only assume it's tied to IP or a weird af coincidence, since I never had a single disconnect, before. That's absolute bullshit and a wasted key. They have absolutely NO way to determine who is multi-boxing and who is legitimately two people in the same household - which means it's one account per household, essentially.

 

In fact, a simpler way of saying would just be "One account per household/IP", if this is the case. And if it is, they're losing one, probably two extra subs (counting my other son).

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I'm hearing conflicting things. They say only one account at a time, but JC said otherwise in an interview, so it's anybody's guess at this point. That said...

Asking rando's to clarify how the technical side of things works is silly. If I recall from back in the day, all you had to do was let them know about multiple people playing on the same IP, and they would make the exception. That should hold true even now, and asking people "why is this happening to me" should only come after the common sense "I should contact NQ about this issue" or "maybe the FAQ has something about it." As for thinking they can't tell if it's one person playing multiple accounts or not, that's technical stuff that only they can answer, though I can tell you that it is possible to determine whether one person or multiple people are playing; the methods have been used in other MMOs for years now.

This issue has been brought up more than once, so it's safe to assume they are at least thinking about how to deal with it. JC's contradiction of this rule in an interview makes everything murky, but for now all anyone can do is look at the rules as written and use common sense and basic reading comprehension to interpret them, as opposed to trying to find loopholes or ask for someone else to re-interpret "don't do it" to fit every single situation. (It should be obvious, but your son isn't "you," so "you" are not playing multiple accounts at once, therefore "you" are not breaking the rules. "You" should contact NQ about it, because it's the sensible thing to do. If and how they determine "you" versus "not you" beyond that is up to and on them, which they may or may not explain to the masses for reasons they may or may not give. But it all starts with "you" saying "he isn't me" to the people who run the show, not complaining about it in a forum to people who can't do anything about it.)

Hopefully that cleared it up. Sorry if it sounds aggressive, but nobody should have to clarify "you" versus "not you," or explain "contact the people who can help you before complaining in a public forum where it is unlikely anybody can help you" and other basic things of adulting. Until they come out with different rules, go with what's written, and if you come up with legitimate issues where you aren't breaking the rules but get flagged for it anyway, contact NQ and figure out how to fix it. Just like you would do if your internet stopped working, or if something on warranty broke. Nobody here should even hear about it until that has been done.

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The DU launcher can only be run once and has no option to add multiple accounts (yet). The mention of this in the EQU8 post is really vague and really means nothing as it's not possible to run the launcher twice anyway.

 

You can not run multiple accounts on the same machine (under the same OS instance) but your are perfectly fin running multiple clients on different machines.

 

The big confusion happened when players started interpreting a post about how EQU8 works with what is allowed under the EULA .. There is no mention in the EULA/TOS that would imply you can't use multiple accounts at the same time, the limitation is just that it's not possible on the same machine.

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2 hours ago, blazemonger said:

The DU launcher can only be run once and has no option to add multiple accounts (yet). The mention of this in the EQU8 post is really vague and really means nothing as it's not possible to run the launcher twice anyway.

 

You can not run multiple accounts on the same machine (under the same OS instance) but your are perfectly fin running multiple clients on different machines.

 

The big confusion happened when players started interpreting a post about how EQU8 works with what is allowed under the EULA .. There is no mention in the EULA/TOS that would imply you can't use multiple accounts at the same time, the limitation is just that it's not possible on the same machine.

Except that it's written right here and doesn't discriminate between technical limitations or anything else:

  • Playing at the same time with two or more accounts is forbidden (having several accounts is fine as long as you only play with only one at a time).

It's not reasonable to say that it was an interpretation issue mixed in with technical limitations, because the bulk of the responses were basically saying, "This is what the rule says, but what if I wear a red shirt instead of a blue one? Does the rule still apply? And what if I'm not wearing pants?" Which is to say that they either suck at understanding the meaning of words (like "forbidden" and "you" and "only one at a time"), or something else is going on. The following example posts were most of what people were arguing, which doesn't support the confusion you described:

 

Does this restriction include running a second account on another PC, where the player character only stands near a control unit (programming board) and does not do anything else?

Until headless Lua clients are added to the game, there is no way to keep a Lua script running while the player is offline or out of range.

---

I'm a bit curious about this - are they talking 'same machine', 'same external ip address' or 'same household'?  We have three gamers in the house, two of which actually PLAY DU.  And sometimes we sit at different machines in the house while doing so.  I might sit at machine A for the first half of my day while my other half uses machine B, but then in the evening I might be sitting at machine B while my other half uses machine A. 

---

Please reconsider this. People who want to multibox will not stop because you simply say their not allowed. It just raises the barrier to entry for people who want to. This game involves a lot of waiting around if it's for industry or slowboating and allowing people to do fun things on an alt allows them and others they play with to have more fun playing the game.

---

More and More remote communities are under 1 IP in Buildings, Schools, etc. 1 Per IP would be insanity in 2020. 
it also states "Playing at the same time with two or more accounts is forbidden"
So in my books unless your playing someone elses account and your own at the same time and that is talent I can't see any rules broken.
Honestly the word playing normally means direct Interaction. I can even see them letting us use an alt to run LUA scripts as long were not playing it actively as it be sitting on a box in the corner with anyone "playing" 

---

 

The last one meshes a lot with another conversation, which amounted to basically saying "I'm going to interpret the rules posted as not being rules at all, because reasons." They are not being consistent, which is causing confusion, but what is written explicitly states what is allowed and what is not, and going with what's written is defensible, while saying "but I was told by someone that it was okay" is not...and neither is "I don't see a problem with it." They need to be much more consistent with their rules, but anyone who argues with or is confused by this statement

  • Playing at the same time with two or more accounts is forbidden (having several accounts is fine as long as you only play with only one at a time).

has issues with reading comprehension, or else is trying to say "that rule shouldn't apply to me (or anyone)."

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41 minutes ago, Dakanmer said:

Except that it's written right here and doesn't discriminate between technical limitations or anything else:

  • Playing at the same time with two or more accounts is forbidden (having several accounts is fine as long as you only play with only one at a time).

The post is about what EQU8 does or does not allow. It is not about the EULA or TOS for DU

 

EQU8 will not allow running multiple clients and so you can't run multiple accounts ion the same machine

There is nothing in the EULA/TOS that states that running multiple accounts at the same time on different machines is not allowed and it has been confirmed to be fine several times by NQ in the form of JC answering this question during interviews.

 

 

No argument here that the post is vague and confusing but that is nothing new for NQ and it is really unfortunate they have not bothered to clarify this in the post even when they have here, on Discord and during interviews. NO surprises there though, this is how NQ operates.

 

 

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