Knight-Sevy

This.
 
Builders have quit the game who built amazing ships because we are driven to tiny cross sections to take part in PvP.
 
Anyway.
 
I enjoy DU PvP occasionally it is very expensive because there is no firm goal yet ( roll on roadmap for TW) but equally I get the lean towards the past.
 
The advantage of needing voxels and losing them means ore is used and thus industry is needed.
 
Anyway Shield levels are fine because Shields strip very fast as NQ increased weapon damages drastically from patch to patch.
 
Still some good thoughts there N19 and welcome back to the game.
 
Honvik
Premier of the Empire Org

I think we reached a new level of ship's ugliness in pvp if this is the new meta I refuse to fly any of these I prefer to be wrecked in my old-style ships designs.
And I agree with OP on all points except that making one weapon class have a shield pen, all shields should let pass 20% of dmg as shield bleed-thru.

 
And these Engines should be 100% obstructed where the logic in this, are we now in Looney Toons? 

Like seriously ?
So, are you really complaining about getting killed by a single XS cannon?
Do you think about putting a shield on your ship on day maybe ?

Like seriously ?
So, are you really complaining about getting killed by a single XS cannon?
Do you think about putting a shield on your ship on day maybe ?

Some will disagree with me and claim that DU's PVP was never fun but I strongly disagree, I had loads of fun before shields came out. This is due to how PVP brings players together.
 
Before Shields every group in the game ran multicrew ships they would have 1 pilot, 4 gunners and 2 repair guys, now this would bring people together, it was so so soooo much more fun communicating with your org mates while you all organised your firing and piloting and made sure your ship was all repaired, unlike now when you have one person on one ship running the entire ship. It no longer has that feel of comradery, it no longer has the same team aspect to it. you no longer feel as though you are an elite unit in a space ship fighting your enemy. 
 
Now I can keep going on about how bad this update was for the PVP meta and population but instead I will list some changes that I believe NQ should make to bring back the fun aspect of DU's multicrew and add counters causing fleets to create fleet comps and not just run the same type of ship. In the following wall of text I am going to address the majority of aspects of PVP and explain how the y are unbalanced and how to make them balanced and fun.
 
Firstly Tanking.
I will start this of by comparing the in-balance between shield and voxel tanking.
 
When your voxel gets shot you lose money, as that is voxel you then have to replace afterwards. When your shield gets hit you investment in your shield becomes worthwhile as you can just leave your ship on your pad for 10mins and it will regen. When you are in a fight with voxel you only have a limited amount of HP that's based on your total elements and voxel. when you are in a fight with your shield you are carrying infinite HP as you can leave the fight to go and vent and regen your health as much as you want. when you shoot a shield you have no real feedback/sense of accomplishment but when you shoot a voxel based ship you can see every dent and every bullet hole and every explosion and feel that accomplishment.
 
How to balance this?
 
Set L, M and S shields to 15mil HP, leave L shields to how there are so that they still protect the entirety of the ship, make M shields only protect about half the ship and S only protect a specific direction. Now if Voxel was balanced correctly S and M shields would have a interesting part in 1v1's and small fleet fights whereas L will most likely still be used for medium to Large fleets due to the chaotic aspect.
 
Remove the CCS Health Pool curve making more voxel less worth while, this meant that you were putting an artificial limit on ship size and not letting builders be creative, CCS will still play a role because it means you cant just build a giant ship and expect to live forever as hitting it too many times wont expose the core but will hit the CCS limit. It will also make small ship viable as they would most likely be trying to not die from the CCS Health Pool but instead will most likely die from their core unit being hit, and Medium sized ships will most likely die 50% of the time to CCS and the other 50% of the time to their core being hit.
 
Increase the CCS value that each voxel supplies by 2.5 times what they currently do. ships will die way too quickly otherwise.
 
Now those are the changes I would like to see made to Tanking. This isn't directly involved in Tanking but Tanking Usually has a negative affect because of this so I feel that I should mention it here in this section. NQ have openly stated that they don't like the length of fights and believe them to be too long. Now they usually nerf how your ship takes damage to try and fix this when I don't think this is the answer. When we build warship we have a goal in mind, it may be to be the last on field or to have a mission runner last long enough for a response to arrive or an armoured hauler to escape a fleet of ship after mining an asteroid. These are all goals that we build ships for, if you don't like the length of fights then you need to change the win condition as this will then make us rethink how we build ships and could shorten fights if implemented correctly.
 
Weapons.
I feel as though weapons could be used to add counter play to the game which could then interduce a fleet comp and add another level of depth to fights.
 
First Off make each guns firing feel different. I would like to see railguns do small long holes in voxels while missiles do fat big explosions. Lasers drawing lines across the voxel as though the ship had battle scars, and leave cannons how they are as they will now feel unique.
 
Secondly, Make M guns an anti-Shield weapon, Either give them the ability to pass damage through shields doing 50% to the shield and 50% to the ship, ignore  shield resistances or do double or even triple damage to shields. This will mean shields are not he be all and end all and will force people to hybrid tank.
 
Lastly Make S guns a weapon that can slow down targets. If S guns could nerf the ships engine speed by 2% for every hit a well piloted S core that gets behind a big L core could be a real pain in the ass and viable in large fleet.
 
And there you have it, you now have counter play and can create a fleet composition.
 
Conclusion.
 
If these changes are made I believe that we would have a more fun and balanced PVP experience in DU. What do you think?

Name another persistent world, multiplayers building game with better graphics.  Please, if it exists i'd like to play it.
 
Even outside the building genre, I don't think there are any games with a larger seamless world, or more possible concurrent players in the same world.
 
DU may not live up to its own standards.  But no one else is doing anything better.
 
 

PvP should be more present. The radars are not powerful enough and the safe zone is too advantageous. Players only die when they are with large L or M cargo ships which results in instant quitting rage. There will be more resilience if players learn to die with XS or S beforehand.

I am pro PvP.
But we must leave this protected zone space represented by Alioth - Madis - Thades.
DU is a creative game and a space game, you need a place where they can fly without PvP.
HOWEVER :
- PvP is needed on the outer rim planets this year
- full PvP: from space to land action.
- And remove the T3 / T4 / T5 asteroids which spawn towards the security zone. Any fight must take place far from it.
With this the PvP community will already have a lot to do and we will have a start in the economy.
Once this first thing in place we can talk about it again.

I am pro PvP.
But we must leave this protected zone space represented by Alioth - Madis - Thades.
DU is a creative game and a space game, you need a place where they can fly without PvP.
HOWEVER :
- PvP is needed on the outer rim planets this year
- full PvP: from space to land action.
- And remove the T3 / T4 / T5 asteroids which spawn towards the security zone. Any fight must take place far from it.
With this the PvP community will already have a lot to do and we will have a start in the economy.
Once this first thing in place we can talk about it again.

Yes gear changes are coming.
Ship categories below L will appear to be able to catch up with these.
To see which mechanism they will choose.
But above all they have 2 massive problems to deal with:
- prevent the shield L from being placed elsewhere than on a ship L
- Remove the cross section or modify it enough so that we can make ships with the viseul that we want (DU is a build game above all, it will be good to respect that)

While many members of our team will be off to spend time with their families for the holidays, there will still be hamster wranglers and other key staff on-hand to keep the servers running smoothly. Customer Support will also be available, but please be patient as turn-around time for tickets may take a little longer than usual.
 
Meanwhile, here’s a sneak peek at some of the things you can look forward to when the team returns in January:
 
An updated roadmap A reveal of our next major update, including devblogs  Some exciting new Lua stuff, which NQ-Ligo will tell you more about below.  
MORE LUA LOVE
 
Bonjour, everyone. NQ-Ligo here. I focus a lot on everything related to Lua implementation, improvements, bugs, tests, and additions. You may remember me from the three-part devblog series Lua Changes and Improvements.
 
We are continuing to introduce more changes and improvements to the Dual Universe Lua environment. There is so much we want to do, and we are doing our best to include Lua-related content into updates as often as possible along with major gameplay elements.
 
Fellow Lua enthusiasts will probably be happy to hear that two areas I’m working on now are the Camera Lua API and the Lua API for the mining unit. These two major additions (and a few minors) are coming very soon!
 
Watch for more information from me about these after the holidays.
 
WARM WISHES FROM NQ
 
From our universe to yours, the Novaquark team would like to extend our warmest seasons greetings and thanks to the Dual Universe community.
 
Happy holidays!
 

T4 and T5 ore are actually of very little value.
NQ have remove all utility from the voxel.
Items take too long to craft and cost too much to be used on a large scale in PvP.
If PvP teams use rare / exotic in stuff it is because they have very little or no loss. They do not need to replace this elements.
So in reality nobody wants T4 and T5

We got tired of repeating it to all the PvE who complain that the T4 and T5 ore is only in the PvP zone
But yes this ore is almost useless in the game at the moment.
The people cry, farm totaly safe with only nanopack and no ship on roid for escape the risk of PvP and complain the T4 and T5 have no value...
The refuged value is T1 thanks to the bot market buy orders. T2 for fuel and some of T3 for warp cell.

We need talent systems that can be unlocked with real playing time and not with afk talent.
 
It must be on merit

Too much work, that will never happen (or too late)
there is short and fast way to make it better (not perfect but better)
 
As almost every ship have the same shield, and shield it 90% of your survival time, small cross section is the only way to increase your survivability
so everyone wants the smallest L core possible.
 
2 easy and quick fix :
link hit chance to core size and not cross section
link shield strength to max core stress
 
that way you can have for exemple with L weapon
- very low hit chance on Xs / S core while keeping M and L core fully hit, no matter their shape, so you can be a bit more creative than a small rectangle
- you can also  choose to have a larger ship, with many gunners and lot of expensive voxel to be more resistant than a small solo L core

Oh yes NQ, Move the spawn area back as requested here.
 
Or maybe surprise us with another game mechanic. Maybe like being able to shoot XS weapons at a player who is not in a ship.
 
Bring us some comfort.
 
Also think of PvE players who bothered to scan, claim, buy exotic MU and who want to sell this ore. They are in unfair competition.

Oh yes NQ, Move the spawn area back as requested here.
 
Or maybe surprise us with another game mechanic. Maybe like being able to shoot XS weapons at a player who is not in a ship.
 
Bring us some comfort.
 
Also think of PvE players who bothered to scan, claim, buy exotic MU and who want to sell this ore. They are in unfair competition.

Oh yes NQ, Move the spawn area back as requested here.
 
Or maybe surprise us with another game mechanic. Maybe like being able to shoot XS weapons at a player who is not in a ship.
 
Bring us some comfort.
 
Also think of PvE players who bothered to scan, claim, buy exotic MU and who want to sell this ore. They are in unfair competition.

Oh yes NQ, Move the spawn area back as requested here.
 
Or maybe surprise us with another game mechanic. Maybe like being able to shoot XS weapons at a player who is not in a ship.
 
Bring us some comfort.
 
Also think of PvE players who bothered to scan, claim, buy exotic MU and who want to sell this ore. They are in unfair competition.

It's happen often that Alioth/Madis /Thades PVP asteroid spawn very close of the safe zone limit
In that case you have tens of ships at the safe zone limit, and players flying with their nanopack to the PVP asteroid, and come back to their ship as soon as their nanopack is full.
Is that really the gameplay NQ wants ? Those players completely avoid the risk/reward mechanics !
Can we just have a limit so that PVP asteroid never spawn so close of the safe zone (something like 30su)
 

Honestly, I was trying to add some humor cause Pann was going around locking every other thread yesterday even if they were valid as a blind sort of forum clean up.
That said I hate the stacked element exploit just as much as basic members of the community telling other basic members to "stfu" or leave the forums, etc.

Too be fair my post didn't contribute much, but I had planned on circle back around later in the discussion. Sometimes a small goofball post though is how I keep tabs on important threads I want to follow by leaving a breadcrumb post as I did.

All of that out of the way... back to stacked elements...

They need removed. Players have had enough time and enough warning that they should have gotten their plans sorted by now to fix this issue. Same as nested org exploit that went on forever, same as anything before that. If I can lose a 2 year project that was my reason for logging into DU every day, then everyone else can stop using exploits to screw other players with unfair advantage.

Dear Noveans,
 
We read all your feedback about the changes coming about Element stacking. We agree the previous announcement on the topic was made on a very short notice. As a result, we will limit the Construct deletion to Constructs with stacked Elements which meet both of the following requirements:
The involved Construct has been involved in PvP after Ares release. The involved Construct has also been reported to the Customer Support which will address the situation accordingly.
Clarifications:
There will be no automatic deletion after Ares update hits the live server. Construct deletion will only happen in the case that the said Construct with stacked Elements has been reported for participating in PvP (and proof has been found on our side). If you’re not sure your Construct(s) have stacked Elements, if you have any doubt, don’t use the involved Constructs in PvP until you are sure there are no stacked Elements. Ultimately, in the update after Ares (Demeter), constructs will be negatively impacted if they contain stacked elements, we don’t currently have specifics yet but see this as an advanced notice. Elements Stacking is a bug, there’s no way around it. As a bug, especially one generating a lot of gameplay imbalance, it has to disappear at some point. So here’s a heads up for all builders who made Constructs with stacked Elements.  
The Ares update approaches, it's time for a maintenance! It will start tomorrow on Tuesday the 21st at 11:00 UTC and the Live server should reopen at 15:00 UTC if everything unfolds as planned. 
 
There will be another maintenance on Wednesday from 08:00 UTC to 09:30 UTC, but more information on that will follow soon.

My ships, with a unique style btw, have no stacked elements. I never did that, nor I wanted to do.
Still, hardly anyone bought any BPs - all in all I sold maybe 6 or so BPs. Apparently the stacked ones got sold like cakes.
And that was the only thing which could interest ma at least a bit in the game (ship building), since everything else is meh .... I was waiting and hoping for it to change. It didn't. That's why I gave up, after 5 years. I cannot "leave" of course, since I am a Ruby Founder, but if this thing doesn't get completely overhauled or sold to a more capable developer, just as I said in my video, it will give its last breath rather sooner than later. 

The way players react to games (and specifically game designs) is not some mystery, and one of the most basic rules in game design is that nothing is ever the player's fault. 
 
If something doesn't work, that's because the design (or its implementation) doesn't work. There has never been a case in any game where the product is flawlessly designed but the player-base collectively "doesn't get it". 
 
If PvP was such a fantastically fun feature, it would speak for itself. No one would need to debate it or wonder "why don't more people PvP? I bet it's because they want to do 'second life' activities..." 
 
No, people don't PvP because of the way the game is designed. 
 
The problem isn't that players aren't motivated to PvP...it's that the design and implementation of the game design do not encourage PvP or make it fun, balanced, or engaging. Combat in DU is a boring, laggy, unbalanced, clunky mess. 
 
 The main problem is never the playerbase, that just doesn't make sense to me. 

Thank you.  I did not realise that.  I thought we all drew from the same pool.  

We always come back to notions of balancing that do not exist in the vocabulary of NQ.

Some examples of things that could have been tried during 1 year of beta :
 
- Prevent L weapons from shooting XS and S because it will be too small.
- Vmax limiting according to core sizes
- removal of the cross section for the calculations of the chances of hitting
- Give a utility to the voxel in PvP
- Assign a capactiy cost to the ships so that the pirate has no or hardly 15G of acceleration + armor / shield + weapons and ammunition (force players to make choices).
  - Prohibit the use of XL motor on cores lower than L or shield L on cores lower than L.