CaptainKork

Yeah i also expected some kind of announcement ahead of time, there isn't even a mention in the patch notes.
I've heard they sent out an email but not everyone (myself included) checks them on a regular basis.

Dear Noveans,

With the launch behind us, it’s time we give you better insight into our direction of development for Dual Universe.

Before the release, our Creative Director gave an overview of many upcoming game features, and we want to expand on his letter by giving you a more precise look at what we’re working on specifically in our upcoming updates.

We are currently continuing to focus our work on the initial stabilization and resolution of issues following the launch, and we are also working on update 1.1 which we are aiming to release in December.
 
What’s Coming in Update 1.1?
 
Kickstarter Rewards: Part Two

We want to take this opportunity to thank you once again for your incredible support and patience. Kickstarter backers are the supporters that helped start Dual Universe. We’re working hard to deliver your rewards.
 
In update 1.1, you can look forward to the following:

- Two versions of pets, with a total of eight variations.
 
Automata Tier 1: Automata Nora-SP pet_agnes_tier1.mp4
 
Follow us on our social media to see the others in the coming days!
 
Automata Tier 2: Automata Nieve Automata Tier 3: Automata Spud-7 Automata Tier 4: Automata Max-E  Automata Tier 5: Automata Elite  
Anicham Tier 1: Anicham Scrap pet_alex_tier1.mp4
Follow us on our social media to see the others in the coming days!
 
Anicham Tier 2: Anicham Comp Anicham Tier 3: Anicham Max 
- Avatar skins for both body types:
 
(Gold/Sapphire/Ruby/Emerald/Diamond/Kyrium Kickstarter and Founder packs)
Alpha Team outfit
 
Follow us on our social media to see the others in the coming days!

(Silver+ / Contributors / Sponsors / Patrons)
Arkship Passenger outfit (Bronze) Military outfit (Gold+ / Sponsors / Patrons)
Arkship Passenger outfit (Silver) Earth Legacy outfit (Silver)     (Ruby+ / Patrons)
Arkship Passenger outfit (Black) Earth Legacy outfit (Black)
- New emotes:
(Gold+ / Sponsors / Patrons)
Dance
Cry
Thumbs down
 
Follow us on our social media to see the others in the coming days!
 
Thumbs up Just DU it  
(Ruby+ / Patrons)
Victory Threat Facepalm Silly dance Salute  
- In-game titles
 
Features
 
- Grid Snapping: with this feature, when deploying a blueprint, you can snap to the grid of another already placed core, like when placing a Space Core Unit. This feature will help you to align cores perfectly with one another while deploying blueprints.

- Steam Achievements

- Element recycling : dismantling elements back into a portion of their components.

- Eight new talents linked with schematic creation.
 
Looking further into the future, What’s in the 1.2 Update?

- Tactical Map: a visual display providing a tactical view of surrounding constructs detected by your active radar.

- New tools for finding wrecks and a minor revamp of the radar system.
 
- Changes to the Deep Space Asteroid Tracker and the asteroid system.
 
- Adding the ability for repair units to use scrap.
 
- New Orbital Delivery Challenge.
 
----------------------------------------------------------
 
We still have a lot of development planned in the longer term which you can read more about in the letter from our Creative Director, and we hope that we’ve given you a clearer picture of our immediate direction for Dual Universe. We will update you should this planning change significantly, and look forward to hearing your thoughts and feedback in this forum thread.

It’s been an incredible month since launching Dual Universe. We’ve worked hard to address issues, and though we always want to do better, we hope you’ve enjoyed the game so far. All across Helios, wonders are already taking shape as you bring the game to life. We can’t wait to see what you’ll build in the coming months and years. From all of us here at Novaquark, thank you for being a part of our game.

@NQ-Nyzaltar
Is there an ETA on the missing Sanctuary territory units, promised for the kickstarter backers?

Not yet, but the team is investigating the issue to apply a fix ASAP.
 
Best Regards,
Nyzaltar.

A wipe makes no sense, other then to give some very ultra competitive players an small edge (in a game you cannot win no less) for maybe a month at most until the game stabilize back to the same old. So by that rationale there would have to be a regular wipe every 3 month or so, to make the game "fair" for new players. Or maybe that is not really what the pro wipe players are actually looking for?
 
A wipe will not improve the economics, a wipe will not fix missions, a wipe will not make pvp better, a wipe will not bring content to the game and most importantly a wipe will not make this game fun. The only thing a wipe does is remove experienced players who are desperately trying to make a game that is worth playing and content..
 
And also.. Judging by what NQ says is to be the final patch before release, this game will be far, far from feature complete. So from that perspective a wipe at release makes even less sense, since there will/must be rather large changes made to the game later on like territory war, proper missions, player controlled markets, PVE etc. etc. if there ever is going to be a game worth playing in the long run. So what will be the excuse for a second wipe even after release in a so called persistent MMO where players are paying a subscription for the content?
 
 
 
 
 

It really seems like the only thing that a wipe will accomplish is creating a buzz around the fact that they're doing it.  Everything else could be accomplished without a wipe, or isn't actually going to be accomplished anyway.
 
If they give out "magic blueprints" it will hugely benefit some people, and randomly penalize other people depending on how they do it, and how much notice they give.  And giving less notice will only punish trusting people and benefit people who saw it coming.  Either way, not a "fresh start" just a new mess.
 
If they wipe everything else but let people keep all their Blueprints it's a huge hit to ship builders, who sold their designs only to have one side of the transaction wiped, while everyone gets to keep the other side.
 
But if they only let people keep Core Blueprints it's a huge hit to anyone who has a collection of ships or designs that they don't want to lose, some of which they might not be able to buy again after the wipe.  NQ just outright deleting all those Blueprints isn't going to go over well.
 
And if the only thing it achieves is a short term bump in new players, it just feels like they are monetizing wiping my progress.
 
 

Thankfully NQ isn't operating out of Germany and or under its jurisdiction?
 
But yeah, I only played DU because it billed itself as a Persistent MMO. Charging a monthy sub... so to me it was 'launched' as a service, even if still in Beta. 
 
Being a persistent MMO is one of the only things that separates it from soooo many other games. Second to the scripting language, and voxel system. Beyond that the features are lacking compared to NMS, Avorian, Space Engineers, Elite, empyerion, etc.. where they don't have those key features that make DU unique but are still in the space games genere.  All of which I love, but keep coming back to DU for what makes it unique. 
 
I don't think NQ is done with massive game changes, even after release they may need to revamp a system and be arguably back at the same technical point where a wipe is the easy option....
 
We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. -JFK 
 
Persistenance
 
adjective 1. continuing firmly or obstinately in a course of action in spite of difficulty or opposition.

Yeah I'm sure you've been exclusively playing games where progress is gated by timers that can not be completed in an evening gaming session, for 30 years. Go cry in a corner but spare me the protestant work ethics.
 
 
 
I don't care if some got rich illegitimately, because like 4 days into launch there were allready huge balancing issues and I made a conscious choice back then to focus on my progress and what I can do, and that I'm not going to put it in question everytime there is a new ooopsie.

Does not matter if it was kickstarter founder, backer or subscription money.
What is important is that players spent real money to play in a persistent MMO, as promised by NQ.
 
And it was NQ that made the decision to proclaim that the beta would be a "soft-release" and the "last wipe", so that they could start charging subscriptions for an unfinished game. And players have invested both time and money accordingly.
 

I don't care what others got thru exploits. I played legit grinded legit killed ships legit and don't feel like I was left behind or was not competitive in PvP. What I do care about is that the 2 years grind would be made a waste of time. What others got thru exploits was negated by anyone running missions. These were nerfed to the ground and no serious Missionrunner considers still fly any mission anymore. That means also no more Hauler kills for any PvP guy the rest besides missions can be warped. A surplus of sz roids and MU took away the need to go rare exotic roids for ores reduced chance for fights and kills for PvP players once again. So if you are a PvP player how would you feel if they take you earned kills in form of a graveyard away do you think that is fair ? Scripters can be day one selling scripts, Builders can sell BP. Just the progress of those that mined fought and traded is taken away. Once again is that fair?

Nothing is equal, those who put money/time into the game should be rewarded and not have what they payed for taken away from them for some idealist dream that "everyone is going to be equal now" No, you wont be equal, the whales will whale and get their mission trains going again. The "nerf" only made it so they just need more accounts so they can gather more of the same mission and pay people to run more than one train at a time. There will be multi-billionaires in weeks, and that has no real effect on you. Aside from some people who don't actually know how to manipulate the market, we haven't seen anything drastic come from these "exploiters" as most of the people who did it earlyish on don't even play the game anymore. Instead of talking about a wipe, we need to talk about getting a real game loop that's going to people in the game past 2-3 months. Betting on killing off your "hardcore" player base to get some fly-by-night subscribers isn't going to be a good look when those vets blast the game on every forum about them not keeping any single promise they have made. The kickstarter backers haven't been made whole, the alpha backers and very early beta backers who were told, no matter what happens, we would keep our constructs and the things we earned/created in game, are getting a kick in the nuts. If it takes killing your player base to try to attract people who have already moved on to other games (those that left pre .23) then, you might want to look at another path forward. Baiting people into trying to side with you with slated dev articles that show favoritism to any/all wipes and the removal of schematics is pretty low. 
 
TL;DR - NQ needs to make good on their promises to the people who put time/money into the game and look for a way to keep any new players from just being a part of what will likely be a very high churn rate.

I would like to add a point of view to the discussion:
Imagine we are in 3 years from now. The server has been life all the time. There have been hardcore gamers and casual players for the whole time. There will be a big difference between the players depending on the how they have been playing the game.

Imagine you join as a new player in 3 years.
 
What will be the difference beteen the new players now and new players in 3 years?
 
What will a vipe improve in the long run? I can't imagine that you wipe the server every few years.
I think that you have to find a way to do ballancing on the run.

I think it is a great pity that my proposal at the time is not on the table.
You should let the game run without a wipe, because this is exactly what was promised to many, as well as the beta players should have already built a society and structures for the "new players". This approach is completely ignored here.
Back to the proposal:
A smaller solar system will be created that will be created for new players. This solar system is "hidden" in our solar system and only becomes "visible" when new and old players have assembled a huge dimension gate in their systems. (Community event) For this, a lot of material must be donated to NPC drop-off stations and there must be a great technological progress on both systems.
Once the gates are built on both solar systems, the new solar system will be visible in the old one. All players can then play together.
This way, the old players can leave their progress alone and continue building there, new players start fresh, so to speak, and later come to the point where they meet the old players.
On the subject of "Wipe".
A wipe would only make sense if it was a complete wipe. Everything from the beginning, no exceptions - because every exception is an unfair advantage - an advantage that you now want to destroy with a wipe.
Even blueprints would be an advantage for builders, because these "designers" get to keep their plans, while an industrialist or an asteroid collector goes away empty-handed.
By the way: The Quanta hardly play a role, because even with a wipe, there will be very rich and very poor players again after days-week-months. The problem is only reset and shifted in time.
So if a wipe is coming: please NQ be fair and tell us when it will come, that is, when do you plan to release the game? This year or next. If there is a wipe, I would pause my subscriptions accordingly, as it makes no sense for me to continue playing. Then I'll wait until the release....
 

I don't really understand the need for a wipe, other then that NQ would like to clean up their database. The 'Pros' listed sound contrived to me.
 
Any permanent MMO where a wipe is needed to make it attractive to new players is doomed. Are you going to wipe every year then?
The challenge of an MMO is to make the game is such a way that a player can step in at any point.
 

There're several things to pick up on in this DevBlog/Post, but the one I'd like to most highlight (as I think it relates to the best solution) is:
 
 
Here "Would split the community" is only a temporary thing. Everyone who has proposed this as a possible solution has suggested that the split be created with new players (or those wanting to start anew) spawning in a new star system (including Haven), with the legacy server continuing in Helios, with no connection between the two systems. The temporary nature of the split is resolved after (say) 1 year, when players in both systems work to construct the "stargates" (or whatever mechanism NQ wishes to implement) to bring the two systems together, from which point everyone is on the same server again. (Or rather, they always were, but the start systems were not connected.)

This process could require lots of quanta/materials from Helios and the old players that have more than the new ones, and it creates a very big in game event with huge publicity.
 
The only down side here then, relates to the "number of new issues server-side", which we are not privvy to. But as we know multiple systems are intended anyway, this is a problem the dev team need to resolve at some point. And the benefits of doing so early (keeping all players very happy, including new ones, publicity etc) might outweight this effort.

Basically any form of wipe after telling us no for 2 years, and id walk away. I don't see any path of fair restitution for ripping out of my hands everything i worked for without using exploits or shady bullshit since beta start when NQ told us no further wipe. i didn't like schematics at first, but its a reasonable mechanic that i work well with for my usage/needs now and could be handled by throttling them like using industry skills. but taking away what I've built in 2 years, which with current systems would take nearly 3 years to replace. And honestly wiping to give a level playing field will only make a difference for a month at best, before the knowledgeable people are back in a position of power
 
I'm not unique in my opinion, and NQ will have to consider how many people will continue to play, or just give up and walk away because they were lied to. I backed in alpha so i haven't paid money monthly, but i would of been happy to of for all this time to aid in the games support. 

A wipe would literally solve nothing as people would just abuse the new mechanics in the same way. 
 
You are doing literally nothing but a complete flusher of an idea. 

Yeh I wasn’t aware schematics were hated, just the implementation. 
 
If schematics go, then something else needs to replace them. Maybe talent based efficiencies to encourage people
to specialise and use the market??

I have never read a bigger pile of one-sided bullsh*t basically advocating for full wipe in order to easily do away with schematics.  Just announce the decision and get it over with.

At beginning of beta it was announced "no more wipes except as required for updates" (like the mining update that was done).  So if NQ do decide to wipe, it would be yet another promise broken.  This also completely ignores that people have been paying monthly to play...

As for "removing unfair advantage" and "level playing field". These are fallacies to help people sleep better at night.  The players with the know how will return to the positions of abundance they have now in short order.   There will always be "haves" and "have nots".   All a wipe does is a slap in the face of the people that put time into the game after being told a wipe would not happen.
 
Make a system that creates schematics rather than remove them.  The problem with schematics, like the markets, is that they do not give player agency.  A player cannot make a schematic at all, they have to be bought.  Make science research a thing.

Cons for wipe have already been mentioned:   As I said, the "NQ thoughts" are heavily aligned to a wipe disregarding promises and small details like leaving an empty world, avid supporters of the game just leave, and paying customers just get their stuff removed.  

What a wipe also does is remove the history of DU such as it is... like Thoramine.  Deleting a piece of DU history like that is unforgivable.

Its a no to reset as  I have played the game for 5 hours per day for over 12 months (over 2000 hours), to get resources and warp cell factory up and running etc, i would have to quit and go back to eve if I lost all that time and effort.

After all the things. actually i'd just leave if there was a wipe. seriously, look at teh mega factories. The investments in the schematics. The time and faith of the community to provide content.
 
Resounding naw, Im out. Gimme monies back pls.
 
The billionaire things was fixed with athena I think and the new "way" for more schematics and rarity of plas.
 
anyway. pick right.
 

I was really surprised to see this update and I was really disappointed!  I spent days on scans and finding ok-ish tiles with more or less ore max 1.8KT and I am not a hardcore player.  Casually comming into the game knowing that I have set myself with a little piece of pie  for later.  I was mining and enjoying gameplay. Now NQ disregarded all that and throw away all countless efforts of me and everyone who was all about finding nodes and mining them.That action is not for beta games, I would say it's acceptable maybe in alpha stage of a game.
What's next buying tiles on asteroids? Fuel tax?  Maybe meteorites falling down on our tiles destroying MU for mining too much?
 
Never the less, on the other hand I was truly excited to see this update. I was thinking that now I don't even have to look for ore, just set up MU and enjoy free income do whatever, maybe even dare to go to PvP and see outside safe zone. At the moment I have casually played DU for a year and I have not been to every planet outside of safe zone yet. All the time I am in the safezone. I could not afford to go that far and loose a descent ship. And mostly upgrading and rebuilding experimental space vehicles for myself.
 
Calibrating MU that is super boring and very annoying to go and harvest ore after, believe me I have done alot of harvesting before I figured out how to find it in the ground ). The profit margins no where near as they used to. 
 
Since the update the only things I have been doing is trying to figure y the way to make money to pay for 7 tiles.  I thought it will be super profitable. But it is't more profitable, it is more hussle than ever befor. I have to keep up on my MU almost every day and keep an eye on my territory upkeep. And it feels like a second job. Now prices of ore fall down almost as a year ago. This update would work if t1 price would be firm at around 80's and now it's going rapidly towards low 20's. 
 
I am not playing DU because I need second job and whole alot of stress. I have plenty of it in real life. I play DU because I love space the freedom to go where I want to go, build what I want to build. Now I feel obligated to play this game every day so I could at least keep what I have gotten. Probably will wrap it up and move to Sanctuary Moon yeah so much fun!
 
So sad I prepaid yearly subscription.....
And for the whole year before I was paying every month, even though I wasn't playing every month. I have done it because I liked the game and wanted to support it. I really hope you guys at NQ will give your heads a shake.
At least provided some weekly missions so I can pay for my bloody tiles if I don't play DU ever day.
 
Also may be instead of giving 150k a day, make one tile on any planet duty free........
 
 
 
 
 

The effort to communicate more and involve the community in the development process is refreshing.  One thing that I think may help is if the snapshot used in the PTS was refreshed more frequently.  Myself and probably others want to test if the stuff they are currently working on will still work with the new changes.  Also despite what you may hear from the vocal minority, we don't need a wipe.  That would do far more harm than good. 

So, after a bit of time to gather my thoughts on this I figured to share what my opinion is on the changes in the coming patch.
 
At face value I actually see very little wrong with any of it, most of the changes makes sense or I can understand. It's a bit of a shame that the small but useful additions of RGB control for lights and canopy glass arriving were snowed under due to the massive change in Industry.
 
Is the idea of using schematics a terrible idea? Not really, it actually makes sense and would offer a great deal of additional gameplay IF NQ actually properly implemented them in the context of the game itself and not just looking at how to slow down industry and pretty much shoehorn "specialization" into the mix.
 
As the concept is pretty much the same as it is in EVE where any industry job starts with a blueprint I decided to transpose the way this works in EVE and build the mechanic for DU from that. This assumes that there would be gameplay currently not in game but I wil get back to that later..
 
The Schematics:
T1 schematics are seeded through bots on the market. These would not be usable in industry by themselves and be relatively inexpensive starting at around 5K for XS components. L and XL component and element schematics would obviously be more valuable but still affordable with some effort.
 
Making "working" copies: 
Players can use a "research" element to make copies of these for several runs and/or increase the batch size per run, for smaller items batch size could go as high as 100 per run and have a total use of 10 runs, bigger items would see smaller batch sizes wil L and XL size elements being 1 per run only. Once all runs have been used, the copy is consumed. Copies will always succeed
 
Doing research:
On these copied schematics, by using specific materials (at a future date these could be items found in events/sites but at the start these could be "regular ore" as a placeholder), through research, players can upgrade these copies which would reduce material cost and/or runtime for batches. A talent will determine the RNG factor of these upgrades succeeding
 
The inventions:
In the world, on planets, moons and asteroids, items can be found which will allow players to research and upgrade blueprints. Several of these items can be combined to craft higher tiers of these. As with research, these could initially be ores (of higher tier than for research) as a placeholder. The player can choose a desired outcome for the invention based on the input materials for the schematic copy and the higher the tier of the outcomes set, the lower the chance of this invention being successful will be. Talents again will increase the chance of success.
 
Copied, researched and invented schematics can then be traded on the markets by players. All of this means that not only can Industrialists use the original schematics if they want, they can buy better quality, higher tier or multiple run blueprints with higher batch sizes, possible lower material requirements and/or time reduction for production from other players creating another income stream and another "profession" in game.
 
It also creates opportunity for explorers top  go out and find the materials needed to do research and invention, this again, creates an income stream for player and a profession in game as well as promotes use of markets and interaction between players.
 
 
Clearly, this all hinges on something NQ seems to try and avoid like the plague... creating in game content themselves. Frankly, while the idea of no PVE content is all wel and good, i think it should be clear by now that this wil not work and NQ, by excluding the option, is only making the game more of a grind and harder to enjoy.
 
 
Explorers also would not need big/expensive ships. The materials they look for may require nimble small ships which could be relatively cheap. That also means they would not suffer a devastating loss if they get caught by PVP players. The loss is relative and they can get back into things pretty quickly. In turn the PVP player gets their reward in loot which in itself still flows back to the markets where researchers can buy them to do their work regardless of whether the explorer or the pirate brings them to market. So for the game, and the players, it's a win-win. 
 
 
But NQ already is about to release this update, how can they make the change towards this you ask? It's fairly simple.. Reduce cost for the schematics to get the base mechanic in game without too much of an impact and then see how this might work .. That is not difficult, it's a matter of changing numbers in a pricing table..
 
 
All this sounds familiar? Sure it does, it's pretty much the industry loop from EVE but why is that bad, it's certainly different enough, being "physical in the world" and if you let yourself be "inspired" by the mechanic in the first place, which IMO is clearly the case here, why not go all the way.
 
 
 probably missed a few thigs here and there but let's discuss and hope NQ pays attention..
 
 
 

Each of us has a different reason for playing video games.
I can tell you why I played with it: to vent my creative vein, my need to build and see my aesthetic sense and inventiveness realized, my hobbyist design skills and amazed by the artistic solutions found by others.
Yes, I am from that part of the players who played DU for his creative ability. PVP and commerce have never attracted me.
I liked to build.
And I still do, in other games and even out of games.
I don't know what "all adults" are doing to play a video game. Everyone has their own reason.
There is no more valid or less valid reason. There is only how you perceive it, for yourself.
 
As for the rest, I am sorry to be "brutal" but no one who is going to close a game will ever tell you "in 6 months we are planning to close everything, in the meantime we will squeeze you as much as we can".
It's commercial madness.
You won't know.
If they tell you that everything will be fine, that they won't whipe, and that everything will go smoothly, it could be true, or a huge bullshit. It is up to you to decide whether to continue or not.
But what you are asking is ... naive.
Extremely naive.