le_souriceau

I think what you are seeing is a lot of industrialists panicking because super nodes and mega nodes are getting mined out. This is driving ore prices up as people are forced to do more and more "regular" mining. And this takes a lot longer for the same ore. The result is that its getting less viable to mass produce whatever and selling it. This will start forcing them to retool their factorys to produce elements and the like and price them to ore to keep up. Or to be forced out of the market with "useless" factorys.
 
This theroy is supported by how many people are mentioning scanners and acting like normal resources dont exist. In the event they do acknowledge they exist im guessing a lot think mining them is just as fast or nearly so as supernodes. People forget alieoth is HUGE and is easily 240KM or so iirc (there was a news artical where they quadrupled the size from 60KM). They also forget that "normal" mining is fairly slow. Additonaly having scanned over 200 tiles myself they average around 500KL of T1 of each type and around 25KL of T2.
 
Granted we WILL eventually hit a point where ore is a problem. But that will require either a huge influx of players or a heavy long term concerted effort to strip a planet or a long long time. There are also super nodes off alieoth that even with warpcells being around 12k a pop make a huge profit to warp in and can keep us suplied. More if they can slowboat. Keep in mind many of us dredgers have large ships and even AGGs now. I for example can boat in 7KT of T1 easily if i want and even at 1000 warp cells to do so. thats easily a 40 million profit and i have and done and do this on a fairly regular basis. This will ensure that even if we somehow strip alieoth that the system will last easily through at least a year or more.
 
This is even before the consideration we are getting autominers and astroids here soon. We know nothing about the plans for them. For example will an astroid be basicly a supernode in the pvp zone? will their be smaller regenerateing fields in the PvE zone? Will auto miners collect existing resources or will they generate new "core" resources? and how fast? And this all disregards the fact if things get really dire they can add a second alieoth/more moons/other ways to get resources. Hell they can even do a "rouge planet" passing through the system or a jupiter like planet with many moons/planets. Or even dwarf planets.
 
Honestly this panic is silly and is again mostly a lot of people upset their easy cash cow is drying up.
 
Edit because i forgot to cover this.
 
Also for those thinking T3+ will dry up in short order. This is also unlikely, On moons where it was scarce to begin with...sure. On most planets not likely. And again if things get dire they will introduce other ways to get it. We have a lot of mining mechanics coming up so it would make sense to have T3-5 in astroids and if it gets too scarce or common they can simply add or remove more roids/add new moons/planets.

This is a fantastic insight that might be why I am seeing significantly reduced t3-5 ore on my recent Jago scans compared to my scans from week 0 of beta (not restricted by NDA because I still have all those scans and I can show them to current players). I have scanned over a hundred tiles on and off for the last few weeks and the concentration of t3-5 ore is tiny compared to earlier. I have also come across a few fully cleared mega nodes of ore on those tiles. I just assumed a player mined them before I got there but NQ could have actually removed a significant portion of mega nodes from unscanned tiles. All the mega nodes I had been mining before were all still there but all the new tiles were really lacking in high tier ore. I was just scanning random tiles in the ocean away from the markets so it's unlikely that someone mined out all the tiles I scanned recently while leaving my first few tiles untouched.

Yet at some time, ODY and Infinity ironicly one of worst organized "offenders" in effective resource extaction/hoarding : )
 
Critical problem with civilization generaly same as we disussed ad nauseam during Alpha -- there is almost ZERO practical value in static position and static development. Territories, beyond small % that a good for trading (because near NPC markets) are all same and worthless. All value of game world in finite ore.
 
IRL civilization were more or less (with some caveats) based on idea, that people decided to abandon nomadic lifestyle and heavely invest into much more profitable in long run "river valley tiles".
 
Even in EVE critical part of concept is competing for valuable static positions to exploit their resources.
 
In DU you can only need 1 warehouse in SZ where you hoard ore you digged somewhere else (once!). Everything else is of very questionable value.

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The thing though is that days into the "early start" for backers (as has been well documented), mostly due to a number of oversights and NQ being their usual overly optimistic and "you'll need years to do this" SELF, a lot of high tier ore was not only mined but pretty much removed form the game in order to fill up bank accounts. Even today, selling T1 ore and some easily crafted goods to bots is in many cases still a profitable and viable way to fund other activities, sinking massive amounts of resources into the black hole of the markets.
 
NQ had an opportunity then to fix that but decided it was all fine. now that they find players are pulling material out of the ground much faster than they expected (again, naïve thinking), they find themselves wit he dilemma of pretty much having removed the easiest way to resolve this from their toolset by not excluding wipes but pretty much making it a very hard sell for them to use that option and not run into an ocean of tears.
 
What will probably happen is, yet again, the general player base will see the fallout in overarching limitations and further nerfs and increase in cost to do basic stuff in game. Industry will probably get a lot more expensive and no doubt T2 industry elements will be brought in to further discourage the average player form making their own stuff and forcing them to the markets. And all of that because NQ really doe snot want the "Satisfactory" feeling the game currently has to become the predominant gameplay loop besides building ships (it's currently the only one really).


All of this and the needed balance passes really can only lead to one thing, a wipe. If NQ doe snot change their position on this they will just find themselves in a position where they can't properly balance the game and they will find themselves outpaced by the player base as far as how fast they will need to bring in new content and features which they will then need to rush through which will cause more balance problems. NQ said they will not wipe unless they have to and guess what.. They will have to, and sooner than they think.
 
It will be a very tough sell and there will need to be a lot of sweetening to make the wipe get through without to much of a riot buit a wipe will need to be done. Frankly, if they let us keep blueprints and put talent points back into the pool I honestly see no problem with it. The problem is that NQ seems to keep pushing the "no wipe unless absolutely needed and even changed their plans, sacrificing the game's visual quality, to do so.
 
Man up NQ.. I really believe it should be obvious you are not getting away from this, so bite the bullet and plan for a wipe, maybe sometime before Xmas. Good time to encourage new subs to come into a fresh, new and improved world and create some much needed revenue in the process.

As several people already noted over here and in Discord talks, problem not particular "interpretation" of crime act or even ban of this guy/guys (even people who seem like "defend" them not actualy I think much care about per se involved individuals). 
 
Its, as always in history, matter of circumstance and context, that makes mundane things powder kegs. Because if this happend in more calm circumstance, effect was drammaticly lower. Banned? And to hell with them. No one cared.
 
Yet circumstance made them kinda "resistance" figures in funny sense. Vandalizing Robin Hoods.
 
This discontent about NQ communication (especialy -- lack of communication on several very sensetive issues about different exploits, clear rules and examples of punishments) was brewing for some time now. For some people since early start, for some since alpha, for some -- from newer times.
 
And this event was like sort of tragico-comedical twist of plot, when someone got biten with exactly same thing he was like... "deserving"? You know this stories? This why it having now so much effect.

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Yep, i think this unites a lot of "old guard" critics (who obviously come in different personal styles and hardcoreness).
 
Game has so much potential, its pains to see when NQ doing something (presumably, sometimes) wrong, that can harm game we so addicted to. So, real patriot cant be silent!
 
Like take Blaze, while reading him sometimes can be like eating raw lemons (and some people quite a not fans of him because if this), he is, prejustices aside, often right about things (or very very close), both in current analysis and predictions. And if we imagine some fantasic situation when NQ takes him in some private setting and consult with him on matters, they can actualy profit from his insights quite a bit I think. Yet probably (and sadly) it never happen.
 
For me its same complicated package to be honest, from one side its one of most exiting games of my gaming career, from other... i often found myself almost in rabid  state of disagreement over how NQ do some things. 
 
What i think critical watershed about people who do critique thing:
 
1) There is ones who give NQ hard time (sometimes beyond polite or even resonable level), but because want see NQ stronger developer and game to survive/be succesful. There is little accent on personal grieviences (more on gerenal state of affairs now or future) + this critique strictly localized.
 
2) People who critique mostly on basis of personal "grieviences" (or simple and natural fact they not liked game) and, to nail the point (as they think) go hysterical about all this paying custumer bs, refund, unsubcribe, illegal dev actions and other too well familiar stuff, at the end stating wishes for game to fail or even actualy activly doing things in this direction by, per example, smearing shit on it in external sources.  
 
 
 
 

I thought this game was a 13+ Are you sure your mum knows you’re conversing with adults?
 
 
I am cranky often, I know this. But as some have already said, it’s because we want this game to succeed. 
 
I have said on many occasions that this game is basically “digital crack.”  It can be devilishly addictive at times. 

Then you have some problems, if such simple thing is diffucult to understand.

Then you have some problems, if such simple thing is diffucult to understand.

Then you have some problems, if such simple thing is diffucult to understand.

Then you have some problems, if such simple thing is diffucult to understand.

Then you have some problems, if such simple thing is diffucult to understand.

Then you have some problems, if such simple thing is diffucult to understand.

Then you have some problems, if such simple thing is diffucult to understand.

Hello Noveans, 
 
At this stage it’s hard to ignore that the “Market Heist” has definitely caused a stir of dialogue and reactions both in our community and on the internet.
 
We have taken some time to look at the situation in more detail: the actions of these players are not ok, not condoned, and will not be tolerated. We stand by our decision, and we’d like to better explain it. 
 
Most of what Novaquark builds within the game world, such as markets, institutes or the Arkship is not a player-owned construct. It is a part of the game play designed to serve all players. There are exceptions, like shipwrecks, which are designed for salvaging, and clearly communicated as such. 
 
We did, indeed, state to players that if RDMS is not properly set on a construct, and it results in theft, it’s part of the game and we won’t act upon it. This is to acknowledge that treason can happen in an organization, for instance, and is part of the emergent gameplay we’re trying to promote. 
 
Now, this does obviously not apply to NQ-built constructs, which are designed to serve a specific purpose in the game. It is obvious that these constructs, owned by NQ accounts or Aphelia, are not meant to be interacted with in the same manner as player constructs. Besides, they may contain some highly overpowered and unbalanced elements which were never meant to fall in the hands of players. So the situation with the market is clearly covered by section 5.2 of the EULA: “You must refrain from engaging in any behaviour that could harm NOVAQUARK’s image and/or reputation, that could harm one or more other Users or have a negative impact on their gaming experience, or that is detrimental to the proper functioning of the Game.”
 
Finally, and for the record, the issue with the market did not result in a wrongly-set RDMS, but rather in a duplication bug. Part of what we use is the same tools as players to build constructs. We create one district, then duplicate it. Something went wrong in the duplication process of one of the markets, which resulted in players being able to edit it.
 
Were we harsh? Yes. But we had previously communicated that we would no longer tolerate abuses of bugs and issues. We do realize that perhaps this started innocently enough in that someone pressed “B” while standing on a market. But it went beyond this, and that shows intention. The players involved indicated that they reported the issue, and after further investigation, one did, though not by following the proper feedback channel: they pinged a staff account on Discord in the middle of the night. We’ve clearly stated that staff do not respond to pings on Discord, and that the reporting method for exploits and bugs of this nature is either via our ticket system, or via a community manager on the forums. 
 
Even a proper attempt to inform us about an exploit doesn’t mean that it’s OK to go on and abuse it. Communicating an exploit to the NQ staff doesn’t serve as a way to absolve the players, it’s only meant to ensure that we fix the issue - it’s not a free pass to use an exploit. The banned players destroyed a player market by dismantling it, and the fact that they communicated with us via Reddit with a request not to be banned shows that they knew what they were doing was wrong. They posted on Reddit, proud of their ‘achievement’ and of the destruction. 
 
In the end, repairing the damage cost us hours of manpower across multiple departments, which could have been invested into further progressing the game. 
 
That is why we take this seriously. 
 
Here are a couple of things that we’d like to reiterate:
We are in beta.  Things aren’t always going to work as intended. But we have a persistent, single-shard universe, and altering its foundations impacts all players. Bug Fixes aren’t instant. They take manpower time to find, investigate, fix, test and roll out. We try to make sure that fixing a bug doesn’t introduce a dozen more. As beta players, we count on you to help us and report bugs, not abuse them. We believe that this is fairly standard for most games.   We genuinely hope this brings some clarity to the situation, and ask you all to remember this is a communal effort. We’re in this together.
 
Sincerely,
The Novaquark Team
 
 

Hey folks,
 
I've just been a bit trigger happy and hid the nice words about moderation being trigger happy and staff's life quality insults. Just as a reminder: if people want to report me or any other moderator and do so here on the forums, it's rather apparent they haven't read the rules or forgot about them.
 


 
 
Regarding the attack by @carijay766 on @Moosegun as well as the following engagement I've decided to close this thread since it's too much trouble to clean up and apart from pointless fighting I don't think there's anything of value here anyways. In case you disagree: please see above.
 
Sincerely
Mondlicht

I think tricky part, that even if we will have no more per se wipes, game mechanics/balance/disign may (and probably will) change so drammaticly, that it can make some of our assets/achievments less relevant over time.
 
So we must be ready to some losses anyway.
 
 

Well, as surviving alpha dissident of sorts (sure, not most radical), I can say, that NQ obviously not tyranical, and especialy not in comparison with some other dev teams. 
 
Its even funny, that issue is of contrary nature. 
 
For very long time NQ was (or percieved, we dont know internal workings) so impossibly soft-handed (undecisive?), that when they actualy gone "serious", it become... complicated, because was done in bad moment/circumstance/context.
 
But just to think about, if NQ banned not those silly "market reconstruction agents" to make their first example of how strict they can be, but presented to us with news, that cabal of abominable dupers is destroyed, superpermabanned and whole their cursed org totaly wiped and removed from existance...
 
Then lots of people will be in spasms of vendictive pleasure, totaly happy about NQ severe justice. Completly different story and public opinion. 
 
 
 

Well, as surviving alpha dissident of sorts (sure, not most radical), I can say, that NQ obviously not tyranical, and especialy not in comparison with some other dev teams. 
 
Its even funny, that issue is of contrary nature. 
 
For very long time NQ was (or percieved, we dont know internal workings) so impossibly soft-handed (undecisive?), that when they actualy gone "serious", it become... complicated, because was done in bad moment/circumstance/context.
 
But just to think about, if NQ banned not those silly "market reconstruction agents" to make their first example of how strict they can be, but presented to us with news, that cabal of abominable dupers is destroyed, superpermabanned and whole their cursed org totaly wiped and removed from existance...
 
Then lots of people will be in spasms of vendictive pleasure, totaly happy about NQ severe justice. Completly different story and public opinion. 
 
 
 

As several people already noted over here and in Discord talks, problem not particular "interpretation" of crime act or even ban of this guy/guys (even people who seem like "defend" them not actualy I think much care about per se involved individuals). 
 
Its, as always in history, matter of circumstance and context, that makes mundane things powder kegs. Because if this happend in more calm circumstance, effect was drammaticly lower. Banned? And to hell with them. No one cared.
 
Yet circumstance made them kinda "resistance" figures in funny sense. Vandalizing Robin Hoods.
 
This discontent about NQ communication (especialy -- lack of communication on several very sensetive issues about different exploits, clear rules and examples of punishments) was brewing for some time now. For some people since early start, for some since alpha, for some -- from newer times.
 
And this event was like sort of tragico-comedical twist of plot, when someone got biten with exactly same thing he was like... "deserving"? You know this stories? This why it having now so much effect.

And people who "by common sense" must be like banned-quartered-then-banned-again, are walking completly free with full pockets and probably having a great fun reading this tread.
 
Thing is, noboby care about those guys in particular too much, but what irretated masses is obvious NQ inconsistency. They super soft when almost begged to do some justice and examplary harsh when its not that nessesary.
 
Its like medieval history disaster recipy with bad laws.

Part of problem, support (especialy in discord and probably in tickets too) is completly clogged by smartasses (or idiots) who spam to teleport them or ships after they crush or muck up res nodes or something every single day... when its 100% their gameplay trouble/error.

While I not name names obviously, but there is some people who already bothered support dozens upon dozens of times with "i need teleport" thing. They all waste already not perfect support team available resource.
 
So may be first logical step will be get rid of them some way.
 
 
 

Part of problem, support (especialy in discord and probably in tickets too) is completly clogged by smartasses (or idiots) who spam to teleport them or ships after they crush or muck up res nodes or something every single day... when its 100% their gameplay trouble/error.

While I not name names obviously, but there is some people who already bothered support dozens upon dozens of times with "i need teleport" thing. They all waste already not perfect support team available resource.
 
So may be first logical step will be get rid of them some way.