Anonymous

You can only steal stuff you do not own... 

The devs decided to implement DACs because they wanted to prevent goldfarming. So I think that's all it should be. Allow player A to buy DACs from player B, who bought them from NQ. The DACs would become "soulbound" to player A. He cannot resell them. He must redeem them. DACs would not become another currency ingame, but they would still serve their purpose to combat goldfarming. Only those who need to use DACs for game time would buy them, so they would redeem the DACs immediately, making being lootable, or not, irrelevant.
 
As a second opinion, I would agree with DACs being lootable.

No, DAC's should be a permanently immune item from theft. But I propose a counter argument(s) to all of this. Pick and choose pieces of each argument if that suits the outcome better NQ.
 
Make it so that the DAC item is only potent, or usable, on Alioth. Create a NPC on the arkship, that has a inventory for every player, and that is where they can store DAC's for free. Even if theyre potent in the entire universe, at least having a safe storage NPC should be doable? even with the current technical limitations?
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Keep the emphasis of emergent gameplay on the game itself, not on the RMT deterrent, or else we may as well attatch real life value to all the game currency and create a direct money market exchange. Where people can pour real life money in, or withdrawal real life money out, by proxy of the game currency.
 
Well, I propose finding a means to make the Ark Tokens, that are already to be found out in the public, a greater emphasis to turn peoples attention away from DAC's
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On a second move I propose that we can make any variation of limits on the game currency market wallets. Either limits in transferring large quantities of funds, or actual limits on how much money you can hold in the market wallet.
 
By imposing a limit on the wallet, you would force people to convert some of their money into "physical" game goods. Raw ores / refined ores / valuable components. OR we could have an item as suggested by many, gold bars, or any various thing. Let us attach some tags to them, and there we go a viable alternative to the DAC's.
 
I can understand the concern of people having these DAC's out and about in circulation but they're not the magical, end all be all, item a small group of people want them to be. The emergent gameplay is actually just a code word for. I want to be able to steal DACs for game time.
Why cant you steal valuable things, and resell them and buy the DAC's with game currency like everyone else? Not everyone's gameplay styles can be favored over some others?
 
Do people think that because DAC's exist that Ark Tokens, 500,000 tons of raw iron, sneaking into an enemy hanger and hijacking a valuable ship, do they think that DAC's make irrelevant all the other possible emergent gameplay styles? In fact I almost go so far as to think that wrapping the whole game around these DAC's is counter progressive.
It hinders NQ's freedom to develop other interesting features into the game. This is why im opposed to them being a lootable item in play in the game field. Keep them restricted, and keep them just for their intended purpose of anti RMT, account security, and the viable choice for the free to play crowd.
 
We have Ark Tokens, a very valuable item, that must be found by exploring. And we could have other high value items to enable the sort of emergent game play people want. Let us not turn it into a war of real money economics with the DAC's.
 
Keeping the DAC's clean, and creating in game items with greater value than DAC's, will prevent the root fear that many have which is that DAC's can be used by some means to destabilize gameplay.
 
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And above all, I ask of you everyone to let NQ devlop the game in a clean environment. This ruckus that exploded over this is pretty shameful on the community.

Nyzaltar already quoted my main points against lootable DACs, so I don't need to repeat myself. While I find the compromise agreeable from a purely game mechanical POV, I still feel it's a pointless waste of development effort for something that is bound to have so little effect on the game.
 
I'd like to add something different, though, directed at Nyzaltar and the team. I believe someone already mentioned it in the last (unofficial) thread on the subject, but this topic of lootable DACs or not is probably not quite as hot or as important to the community as it might seem from the furious debates. There are just so few gameplay elements yet that are really set in stone, so when NQ announces something that does sound like a definite decision was made, naturally we will all latch onto it and tear it apart.
 
DACs are maybe the first thing we are able to discuss in a factual manner, rather than the pure pie-in-the-sky speculation we are left with concerning almost everything else in the game at this point.  
 
 
 
Well, now I'm baffled that nobody else thought of this yet, or at least I haven't seen this idea. Sounds like a pretty straightforward alternative.

Why aren't credits lootable?
 
If we're doing this for "emergent gameplay" maybe credits and master blueprints SHOULD be lootable.
 
We can rename the game "Grand Theft Online"
 
And probably draw another 2 million in pledges

OOC: Great effort, and great example of the community really taking off!
 
IC: Armed thugs for hire, do not a police force make.
 

Inception...

Hey Anon,  you are a good friend and I enjoy our discussions in public and pm's regarding our gaming history and DU.   I have a hard time believing that anyone within the DU community is hell bent on personally attacking someone based on their ethnicity, color, creed or whatever.  It's so easy for chats to get quickly out of hand and I am of the opinion that no one is that vile unless completely proven otherwise.  I did not read the entire exchange of what was said on Discord but I'll wager that the things said were not directed at you personally but it really bothered you a lot and I'm sorry that happened for you.  This is supposed to be a fun place to come and discuss our mutual interest in DU.   Did the conversation end with,   <jeez, I'm sorry if you got offended, that wasen't my intent?>   If not, then maybe it should have, because it show's a mutual respect and concern and this could have been buried post haste.
 
Your Bill of Rights is an amazing document.  If I ever need to have one drafted (or a contract drawn up) for my private island of inhabitants of misfits and lowlifes (lol), you will be my author.  There's nothing wrong inherently with your post content.  I do feel however that the majority is covered already via ToS, Eula, etc. and hopefully common sense and respect.   I  also have a low tolerance for racism, bigotry.   I would rapidly move on.  We have lots to discuss and organize regarding this great game that we want to see materialize.
 
 
@Lethys: We are on the same page...  
I, LETHYS, will track the goal of harassing, griefing and mocking around with players in-game on a more or less friendly basis where no fucks are given. I will never mock them because of their race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. If offered a chance, I will have slaves, burn down cities and kill people as I see fit.

On point - I firmly believe in freedom of speech and the free and frank exchange of ideas. As long as they are based on logic and fact, not a logical fallacy like in this case (faulty generalization), and, in the spirit of Art. 30 - people don't use the Freedom of Speech as an excuse just to be horrible human beings to others.

The Isle of Hope Corporation and I will sign this too.
 
+ 1 for the OP.
 
Racism should never be tolerated!
 
Peace out
 
Perry_Hope

Thanks. It's version 0.1 at this point - expect it will get pared back, modified, tailored
 
However, if you're an ass, I'll probably kill you and take all your stuff  - or at least try  
 
(Something tells me you'll probably do that even if I'm not an ass )

I was going to write something similar, but I think this summed it up perfectly. Harassment and toxicity are bad, and a lot of the points made in this "constitution" are good thoughts, however, that is already covered by the EULA. Some of the other points are just not accurate for this type of game despite the good intentions. For example: 
Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each territory. This is only true if the owner of that territory allows that. If not, well, tough.
 
All that being said, you have obviously put a lot of thought into this and feel it is the right way for the world to be. I can respect that. In fact, I encourage it. I encourage you, if you really believe in this, to try and spread your ideology throughout the galaxy. Many players will disagree and fight against you, but that's part of the fun. Competing ideologies enrich the game and make it better for everyone. 

Yeah, some stuff in there is taking it a little too far, but overall, I agree.  Being a woman working in a male dominated industry, I've been fighting bigotry for years.  Not fun.  So what I will say is that I will never harass any player because of racism or bigotry or anything like that.   Don't care what religion you are, what your politics are, how much money you have ...
 
However, if you're an ass, I'll probably kill you and take all your stuff  - or at least try 

I have no problems signing this.
 
Of course I can see why some of our friends refuse to sign.
 
Having said that, bigotry and the likes have no place in a game. And personally I would prefer not to interact with those people. But it is not an easy situation.
Without going to deep into it lets just say the right of free speech also includes situations to hear things you dont agree with.
 
Will I play or trade with those people?
Never.
 
If people know CODE then I can use them as as an example of what is on the very edge of what I find tolerable.
Even in a sandbox game I find thinly veiled fascisme too much.
 
But thats just me.

Anon, I like you, you're a nice person and what happened in Discord shouldn't have happened. But this seems like an extremely unnecessary thing to do, as everything important is handled by the EULA and NQ ToS. And while a lot of the things you wrote are good thoughts, they don't need to be stated and agreed upon in such a matter. Some of your points outright defy things like dictatorships, pirate gangs, bounty hunting and other "Non-democratic or non-legal" concepts, which nonetheless should be an accepted part of the game. 

Yay - my lizard minions have arrived!
 
Saint Germain - I made an org chart for you, just so it's clear where the Brotherhood fits into the bigger picture. You're welcome.
 

 
Expect Us.

If this is not implemented in game than someone could easily do this outside of game on a web site.
 
I see both sides to this, and really don't know which i prefer. What if you are really good at those hands dirty jobs, you might not want just anyone to see your job history.

In terms of scale for C-Y space and the K-packs:
 
Calabi-Yau is theorized as beginning to occur at perhaps 1/1000000000000000 of a meter.
 
Atomic scale is matter is composed of atoms, and the distances of the pieces of the atoms exist at 10^15 meters. That is 0.000000000000001 meters. Atomic scale fits in C-Y space.
 
If we take a person to be on the average 1 and a half to 2 and a half meters tall – we consider the Calabi-Yau distances to be about 2 million million million times smaller than a human.
 
So what the tech likely does is deconstruct matter at the atomic level, then stores that mass in the C-Y space. The Blueprint attached to the tech can then reassemble the resultant stored masses/atoms (of the correct type) back into the right material.
 
You may find that storage of actual items is out of scope and you cannot carry a "ship" in your pocket, only all the required materials which the "voxel gun" (or whatever the build tool will be called) then spits out according to blueprints. It would, from a certain perspective, appear that you are "unstoring and object".

Yeah well if the 'good guys' let the scammer be then there will be anarchy. So in fact it's up to YOU to stop scammers and show them, that they shouldn't mess with you. You really should see both sides and not always cry about bad boyz

Firstly i want to link to the thread where i got this idea as it could go hand in hand with this system or simply be a stand alone system that replaces this system I thought it deserved it's own thread for discussion.
 
Yes it looks like a wall of text so I have bullet pointed it for you
 
Link
 
I would like to see in the game a reputation system allow me to explain 2 versions of this;
 
+1/-1 System
Player accepts job, Player completes job, Contractor +1 for player  
Advantages
Simple, Easy to implement, Higher rep means more likely to get employment on bigger jobs, Lower rep may represent a noob that you may not want to employ Negative rep may represent a scammer, or a lazy half job Disadvantages
Easily abused Employers cannot see the scale of jobs that this player was involved with  
 
Curriculum Vitae
 
This system requires some features being discussed in the other thread to work and would mean employers can see previous jobs that the player had been involved with and successfully or unsuccessfully completed. It could also include the +1/-1 system but employers again would be able to see if their score is legitimate or not.
 
Advantages
Higher rep means more likely to get employment on bigger jobs, Lower rep may represent a noob that you may not want to employ Negative rep may represent a scammer, or a lazy half job Less open to abuse as players can assess if the rep is genuine or not Previous employers could add comments on their performance and timekeeping Employers can see what kind of jobs the player has been doing Disadvantages
Can still be abused but would require extra work to abuse it. Would potentially significantly slow down game play due to employers reviewing past histories

I dont think we actually have to talk about speed limits set by relativity but more of utility and technology. Its a sci-fi game after all. For example the "EM drive" was supposed to one day be able to move spacetime with the ship so nothing would break Einsteins theories.
So we should think about what is helpfull for the gameplay.
The speed for interplanetary flight needs to be set depending on how much to scale are the systems: with .5 c it would take around 2s to the moon, already 10 minutes for the sun and in some cases almost half an hour to reach the mars. Wont start speaking of the gas giants.

I'm willing to bet that Governments will simply be a kind of ORG. I don't think that players will have the ability to create ark ship style safezones using Territory units. The ORG itself would likely determine what is and is not permitted, manage mining, building, and editing rights in that area, but probably won't have the ability to prevent PVP.
 
Instead an ORG might set up laws governing the zones that are a part of the territory, and might have to use scripts to implement punishments. The EMPIRE org might have a script running in their territories that automatically puts a bounty on anyone that attacks and/or kills someone in their territory that expires after an hour (except of course, people who have that kind of bounty on them). Provided the ORG has sufficient funds to pay, it turns anyone nearby into potential law enforcement.
 
We don't really know the specifics of how laws and TU's work, but I'm willing to bet that Governments will simply be a kind of Org

Because people expect to not get robbed when going for a trade, so trading hubs would require some kind of security, which needs to be paid for. 
 
And I didn't say anything about a new marketplace not requiring "a significant input of ressources". But when there is no functional market around, there may be a strong incentive to build a new trading hub even if its costly.
 
Or otherwise, trade may just naturally shift elsewhere. Even if building a new marketplace next to the illustrious Mr. Fatcat you described doesn't pay off, people may just flick him off and trade at the anarchical meadow next door, and risk getting attacked rather than pay for his absurd prices.
 
 
I very strongly disagree.

I'm against lootable DACs.  I DO believe the main reason they are in game is to give folks who can't afford to subscribe, a way to still be able to earn their game time. There really isn't a better reason to implement them.
 
Now don't get me wrong.  I"m not some "make it all safe candy land player".  I'm all for looting.  I'll take your resources, your ship, your house...whatever.  But I don't want to take real money from folks who can't afford to play in the first place.  How awful would that be if it happened to you?   Not only did you get ganked, now you cant even login to try to salvage some of what you lost in the first place! 
 
IMO, as long as a DAC is still a DAC it should not lootable.  As soon as it's cashed in and used to purchase something in the game, then THAT is what you loot; whatever they bought with it.  Otherwise, you WILL be stealing someone's game time.  And I just don't want people to be able to do that. 
 
I know a lot of folks take games so seriously that they want to only take game-play into account "for the success of the game" and all that.  But in the end, to me, it's just a game.  And I want everyone who wants to play it to be able to.  Makes it more fun for the rest of us.  If we allow some folks to steal other people's real money - no matter what kind of label you want to put on it -  it's only going to run folks off who would otherwise be playing the game.   It makes makes no sense and goes against the spirit of the type of gamers I like to play with. 
 
So, my vote is to just wait until someone cashes one in and then steal what they bought, if you must.  Otherwise, let players keep their RL money...sheesh!