Doombad

Welcome to the afk simulator.  Setup your mining units, wait for calibrations to arrive.  Calibrate your machines, wait for the pitiful amount of ore to arrive.  Spend a week accumulating enough ore to build something for 5 mins.  Back to EVE I guess.
 
These numbers need adjusting.  I don't have the energy to go on about this as everyone is saying the same.  No point providing feedback because it falls on deaf ears.  Nothing has changed from the pts, these numbers seem largely the same from what I can see.

I never played the alpha because I had no interest in playing a game that was going to wipe.  But when the beta was opened up and I had to pay a subscription to play the game I was told they are no longer going to wipe the game. And I was ok with paying for the game.  But after watching last weeks vlog when you guys wishy washy over a full wipe.  Well it gets me nervous about playing the game. 
 
Basically I have no interest in paying to beta test your game. Dont get me wrong. I am ok with paying to play the game during beta. And I have summited bug reports and made suggestions. But if your doing a full wipe. thats not what I signed up for. Just send me a refund now. Maybe I will resub after you guys release fully.  Although chances are I will jsut walk away. 

We get it man, you're mad you can't sit on hundreds of tiles solo anymore. You need a better way to work through your grief than spamming the forums constantly.

It means any industry or mining units you have on the tile will stop working, until you pay the taxes again - HQ tiles just won't go abandoned if you don't pay the tax

All industries cannot be used.
Mining units become inactive.

However, the protected status without taxes only applies as long as you have an active subscription. No subscription means no protection, regardless of whether it is a normal area or an HQ tile.

This will lead to so much looting, much more than a single player can ever make with Minung Units.

The Dual Universe Demeter update is fast-approaching. In addition to the geometry reset and the introduction of mining units, Territory Upkeep will also be part of the package. 
 
Territory upkeep presents two benefits from a design standpoint: it should help prevent infinite land grabbing by introducing a constant financial constraint to massive land owners as well as provide a resource sink to help keep the economy in check. 
 
We looked at different options to bring some form of balance in the control of territories. For example, the current setup for organizations, that allows infinite nested organizations, ruled out a progressive tax system, as nested organizations with one territory each can be created to only benefit from the lowest tax level. 

OFFLINE, ONLINE AND TAXES
For now, the cost of claiming a territory will be at a fixed price of 500,000 quanta. After the Demeter deployment, the territory will be free from taxes for three days, which is the equivalent of having a tax break for the first week. 
 

 
Accessing the Territory interface through the Wallet menu will show you a list of your territories and their stored funds. Here is where you will add quanta to the balance for any of your territories. Taxes will automatically be withdrawn from this balance at a rate of 1,000,000 quanta per week. Each territory can hold up to 13 weeks of quanta.
 
Territories with unpaid taxes will go offline. Once funds have been added, you will be able to activate the territory once again and it will come back online, allowing mining and industry processes to be restarted. If the territory was online before the tax was successfully withdrawn, industry and mining will simply continue to run.
 
In the event that the territory successfully pays its tax, and the balance is reduced below the point that the next taxation cycle will have insufficient funds, a notification will be sent to the owner or the legates of the organization that owns the territory.
 
If the territory does not have enough quanta to cover the week, the territory will go offline and cease all mining and industry operations and a reminder notification will be sent to the territory owner or legates of the organization that owns the territory. During this period, the affected territory will not contribute to the adjacency bonus of the mining units.
 
If a territory remains offline for two consecutive tax cycles (two weeks in total), the ownership to the territory is lost and it becomes abandoned, unless that territory is flagged as a headquarters from the territory interface.

HEADQUARTERS
Each player will be able to assign five territories as their headquarters. These territories do not lose ownership when offline and remain in the players' ownership even if taxes are unpaid for longer than the two week grace period. This feature is only available to player-owned, not organization-owned, territories. We will monitor how this develops; in the future, these territories may be subject to the loss of their headquarters state if the account in question is unsubscribed; however this will not be the case in Demeter. 

TERRITORY EXCHANGE
To allow for the transfer of territory ownership to another player or organization, a territory can now be tokenized. By simply right-clicking on the territory unit, a token can be generated similar to the way constructs can be tokenized. Once tokenized, the territory will be frozen, preventing the deployment of new static constructs and terraforming operations. Mining and industry units placed on the territory will continue working as intended so long as the upkeep taxes are paid. 
 

 
The token itself will contain information about the territory and the static constructs deployed on it. Although it can be used to take ownership of that territory, this does not grant ownership of the static constructs on it. The quanta balance of that territory will transfer with the territory to the new owner.
 

 
If the token expires, it disappears and the territory will be unfrozen and remain in the token creator's ownership.

REQUISITIONING CONSTRUCTS
While territories can be lost by remaining offline due to unpaid taxes or they can be traded to other entities, static constructs may still be present on those territories.
 
The new owner of a territory can requisition any static construct present on his territory. Requisitioning will start a two-week window where the new territory owner must allow access to the static construct for the former owner and where the former owner of the static construct is able to remove that static construct by dismantling and removing it from the territory. If the static construct is still present after two weeks, its ownership will automatically be transferred to the new owner of the territory. Constructs on abandoned territories that haven’t been claimed by a new owner can’t be requisitioned though. 

STARTING WITH DEMETER…
We understand that players will need some time to adjust to the new Territory Upkeep system. In order to allow time to prepare, the first tax payments will be subtracted from the territories two weeks after the Demeter release date. Once the update is live, we will announce the exact date and time the first tax cycle will begin. 
 
CAVEATS AND COMMENTS
As with most new systems, many things are subject to change, including UI, naming conventions, tax rates, etc. Your feedback has already made a difference as the system was being developed, and we’ll continue to look at our players’ input to see what further adjustments need to be made. Share your thoughts in this forum thread. 
 

That's sad but overdue. It was clear for years thast the original vision is out of reach. Considering the finnancial situation all NQ can do is putting on the emergency brake, picking all working pieces together and turning them into a game that can be sold on the market. If they manage to return the investment, they might start a new attempt with advanced technology and this time with experiences in game developement.

The fundamental point you’re missing  is that games like DU are based around a concept. They will implement different ideas, get feedback, adjust, and evolve the game. Assuming some all knowing designer has the vision mapped out from A to Z is naive at best.

Thanks for the update. 

NQ listened to feedback and changed their minds. That’s life. That’s work. That’s how it goes. I am glad they listened.

I tried to like your post more than once because it deserved it. Didn’t let me
 

I tried to like your post more than once because it deserved it. Didn’t let me
 

Wipe em.. coming from a solo.

NQ listened to feedback and changed their minds. That’s life. That’s work. That’s how it goes. I am glad they listened.

WARNING !
LOW ATMOSPHERIC BRAKING POWER
CRASH LANDING IMMINENT ^^
 

Thx NQ, really appreciate all the small balance changes you did to the demeter Update.
- HQ Tiles: Great Idea! this helps us keep a lot of the player made content outside of sanc
- Wiping the scan results: Absolutly the right decision!

Mining units are one of the key features that will be introduced in the upcoming Demeter update. What are they? How do they work? How will they impact the gameplay of Dual Universe? Read on for the answers to those questions and learn more about these handy-dandy little ore vacuums. 
 
HOW DO MINING UNITS WORK?
Let’s start with the basics. 
 
Mining units are new elements that you can deploy on your static constructs on the surface of planets. They need to be linked to an output container and, once started, they will autonomously dispense ore at regular intervals into this container without the need for you to be connected to the game. 
 
There is one mining unit for each tier and they are large elements. Each tier of mining unit is able to mine ores of the same tier. In addition to these five large mining units, there is also a small one for tier 1 only. This special small mining unit is intended for beginners.
 
Let’s have a look at these beautiful beasts in action.
 

A minimalist mining building with an active mining unit and its best friend, the container
 
These mining units work only if the mining ray you see in the screenshot above is not obstructed and can reach the ground. The mining ray has a maximum range of 50m.
 
Once the mining unit is deployed, linked to an output container, and in range of the ground, you can select what ore it will mine and start the machine. Once calibrated (more on that below), It will then mine regularly and deliver a batch of ore in the output container every hour. To further automate the process, the output container can be designated as the entry point of an industry line. (Note: If the container is full; the mining unit will no longer collect ore, so you’ll need to empty the output containers from time to time or have them feed directly into an industry line.)
 
There are two primary considerations when deploying mining units. First, you need to make sure the territory where they are deployed actually holds enough ore underground and the units will need to be calibrated before they will begin collecting ore.

TERRITORY POOLS
Various types and tiers of ore are dispersed with limited availability across Dual Universe. You won’t find them all grouped together in a particular place. 
 
To represent that, each territory in the game can provide up to a certain volume of ore each hour. That’s what we call the ‘ore pool’. A territory scan can show the kinds of ore present on a territory tile and their yield rates in liters per hour.
 

This territory is capable of providing a variety of tier 1 ore
 
The image above illustrates the territory-based maximum rate for each ore on this territory. Since there’s a maximum yield per hour, adding more and more mining units becomes useless past a certain point. Each active mining unit “consumes” a part of these available resources. These territory pools represent mining rates, not a total volume of available ore. For example, if a territory has a pool of 100 l/h of a given ore and each mining unit is capable of extracting 50 l/h, then you need two mining units to maximize your extraction capacity, and any additional mining unit beyond two won't give you more yield.
 
Unlike the previous ‘manual mining’ system, the new ore pools are infinite. You will always be able to mine these ores at this rate for as long as you have a calibrated mining unit running here.
 
These territory ore pools are varied and different. On a planetary basis, this new repartition should match more or less the previous allotment for manual underground mining. There are a few changes, but basically a planet that used to contain some tier 3 ore will still contain some tile-wise though, the issuance is very different between low and high tier ores, even from territory tile to territory tile. Typically, you should find tier 1 ore in abundance on nearly every territory tile in the system, but tier 5 ores are only on a few small spots on the most distant planets.

ACTIVE TERRITORIES
For mining units to work, the territory must be active. That simply means that the territory tax for it must be paid. That’s right, if you want the shiny rocks, you gotta pay your taxes. You can learn more about territory upkeep in an upcoming devlog. 

MINING RIGHTS
If you share your territory tile with your friends or organization, you might want to keep the precious underground ores for yourself or, conversely, allow only specific people the ability to operate mining units on your territories. For this purpose, we’re adding the Mining Unit Right. Without this, mining units belonging to other players are unable to access the ore pool and cannot mine on your territories. 

ADJACENCY BONUS
Mining units are social. They like to be around friends. That’s why if you own several active territories near each other, the mining units working on them get an ‘adjacency bonus’ to yield a greater amount of ore beyond the ore pool in each batch. Note that the territories must be owned by the same entity. If you find a great tile with precious ore under it, it might be worth it to own and maintain a few adjacent territories.

EXTRACTING AND CALIBRATION
As explained above, mining units are fully autonomous, doing their appointed duties regardless of where you are and what you’re doing, including when you’re offline having real-world adventures (which you should be enjoying from time to time). The reality is just a bit more complex as mining units need to be calibrated to work efficiently.
 
Each mining unit has a ‘calibration score’ and slowly loses calibration over time if kept unchecked. When the calibration score is below 100%, the mining unit will produce less ore; at 0%, it won’t produce anything at all. To remedy that, it must be calibrated.
 
To calibrate, you will need to enter a specific interface where you will manually probe the territory in search of underground ore. This is ‘extracting’.
 

Manually extracting ore and calibrating the mining unit
 
In this extracting session, you will use several tools to probe the territory tile, but you will need to keep a look at the probe battery at the same time. The goal is to find the optimal point with the best ore density that you’ll select at the end of the process. Depending on the quality of the location, this will have two effects:
It will increase the calibration score so that the mining unit can continue to do its job. It will also extract a few ore rocks in the process and those will pop to the surface of the tile at the selected location. These may be harvested manually at your convenience; they don’t expire.   
Calibration is not unlimited. Each player generates calibration charges at the rate of one charge every few hours. You can use your charges on the mining units owned by other players or organizations as long as you have the rights needed to access them.
 
Finally, a single mining unit cannot be extracted twice in a row. There’s a 24-hour cooldown period before calibrating it again. The upside is that mining units will not lose calibration for two days after being calibrated.

MINING UNIT TALENTS
Since mining units are a big new thing for Dual Universe, they come with a variety of new talents to complement their use.
 
You will have talents that improve the:
mining unit efficiency, on element deploy base mining rate, on element deploy speed at which your character will regenerate calibration charges  maximum mining charges your character can hold amount of ore extracted when calibrating  
GETTING TO THE CORE OF TERRAFORMING
One change we do want to make you all aware of comes as part of the terraforming changes where previously a number of players had dug down to the center of certain planets or moons. Each planet or moon will now have an impenetrable core at the center that forms about 80% of the planet's radius with a minimum digable depth of 5 km below its “sea” level.
 

 
As such, some constructs may be located below this line after the incoming terrain changes. In these cases, we will raise those constructs up to the relevant planet’s surface. (See this article about preparing for the geometry reset for directions on how to request assistance.) 

A CHANGE OF HEART, THE REMOVAL OF SCAN RESULTS
We received a considerable amount of feedback from players who were opposed to keeping old scan results relevant. And following some internal discussions on the topic, we feel that it is indeed in the best interest of the game to provide a clean slate when it comes to mining data to prevent the hottest of hotspots from being immediately taken. As such, we will be clearing all scan results from the game when Demeter goes live. 
 
We realise that this will inconvenience some of the players who have large amounts of scan data; however, we do believe it is the right thing to do.

DO YOU ‘DIG’ THE MINING CHANGES?
Mining units are a significant departure in how mining is done in Dual Universe. The old underground mining system is gone, replaced by mining units and asteroid mining. We hope that you will appreciate the new feature, from territory management and optimization to the extracting sessions. We really think that the new state of mining in DU is more sustainable and hope you’ll agree. Share your feedback here. 
 

I would like more specifics for when the patch is coming out. Many (or most) of us are prepping. For example: when do we need to get our underground info figured out? 

My only concern is the "talk" about the total wipe for the release. I'll be honest by saying that's unfair for people like me who have multiple accounts and pay for all of them (couple hundred $$) and then will be wiped out at the end of the beta phase. Especially when some other people received hundreds of beta keys for free during all the duration of the beta.
 
When I clicked on "buy 6 month subscription" for all of my characters, I had no indication that my characters will be wiped out at the end of the beta. Otherwise, believe me, I would never have subscribed. I'm sure this is not from a bad intention but because NQ remains undecided on the finality of a possible wipe for the release, several people just like me still paying subscriptions without properly playing Dual Universe but only for skilling the characters. That being said, I will greatly appreciate a final statement about the possible characters wipe for the release. That will make a big difference for me if I continue to pay or simply move forward.
 
Everyting else is a big thumbs up, including the price increase.

Large ships stack them because so many atmo brakes are required.
 
Maybe you could point us to your ships so we can compare. Large ships may have 60+ atmo brakes. I am curious how you do that without stacking them.
 
Let’s also skip the “don’t make large ships argument.” This is a simpler problem for smaller ships.

Re: Airbrake obstruction - NQ, if you are going to introduce these design breaking changes to flight elements, whilst long overdue, at least have the decency to TELL US - this unannounced change is bad form.

I just have one thing to say: if i dont get my terraform talent points back, i will start FULLY utilizing the digging talents i am forced to keep. If you know what i mean. 

I want to voice a strong agreement with this post and add the atmo brake change will be disastrous to nearly every ship. Something like this needs more time and socialization.

I want to voice a strong agreement with this post and add the atmo brake change will be disastrous to nearly every ship. Something like this needs more time and socialization.