Warlander

By reading all these posts and many others it is clear there are a lot of different views on how PvP or Non-PvP should emerge in DU but one thing is coming back every time, the cost of it all and that the cost of it all is the biggest hinderence to actual gameplay, whether you are on the PVP side or the non-PVP side, miner, creator you name it.
 
I propose to open a petition to NQ With a very simple question, nothing too fancy: "Please make Time invested in DU worthwile by reducing overal costs in creating ships and buildings".
 
Alternatively this will also probably reduce the gold sellers as margins plumeth and will inspire PvP as losses are manageble. Moreover will this help the economy because everyone loves to keep industry rolling so the surplus needs to go somewhere. Only reason not to would be in my perspective if the goldsellers are actual NQ people or affiliated.
 
It all comes down to what was already said, would you risk a 200 euro/dollar ship? probably not.  Would you risk a ship thats net worth is a cup of coffee and maybe a donut?  I would, wouldn't you?

Lol if they open up Alioth to Territory Wars this game is finished like 1-2 months after that. No doubt in my mind.
 
For funzies I decided to check the usual gold farming suspects pages to see what all this effort is worth monitarily.
 
Turns out that 100-125 million h goes for $100 and scales by how much you buy with a discount %. Turns out warp cells are $25-30 for 5k cells. Turns out ore sells for T1 for 500kl for $10-15 and goes up quickly for smaller and smaller volumes. Turns out Thorium sells for $250-500 per LITER.
 
Turns out it could cost me $25 of real money to bypass PvP and use fast travel. Turns out the ships I make are $100 a pop. Turns out the 1.26kt loads I was hauling were about $38.48.
 
Beyond that you can pretty much get anything you want on those sites and just looking how much effort or real world money investment to how quickly it is destroyed is the real issue here. If I lose a ship with a full load im out $140 with just T1 mats factored in and knowing that I could pretty much be losing out on $250+ of real monitary worth.
 
No wonder they want to take away the $25 priveledge to warp since they can sieze shipments and make the equivelent of a weeks worth of pay if they worked a job multiple times a day depending on who they hit. Or that most of the stuff siezed from Territory wars will end up on here too when mega orgs ransack everything they can pillage.
 
If and when Alioth is stripped of PvP protection being the largest planet in the solar system as a home world will be catastropic and game ending for a large majority of people who dont care about the pirana PvP group ambush gankfest if it costs them potentially hundreds in real world $ to dip their toe in or put the work in constructing a warship to lose it in 3 mins after whoever gets missle locked first loses $100.
 
The real monetary cost of this game is real for the effort that goes into doing the most simplist of things. The system NQ has set up in DU is a gold farmers dream game apparently.

Lol if they open up Alioth to Territory Wars this game is finished like 1-2 months after that. No doubt in my mind.
 
For funzies I decided to check the usual gold farming suspects pages to see what all this effort is worth monitarily.
 
Turns out that 100-125 million h goes for $100 and scales by how much you buy with a discount %. Turns out warp cells are $25-30 for 5k cells. Turns out ore sells for T1 for 500kl for $10-15 and goes up quickly for smaller and smaller volumes. Turns out Thorium sells for $250-500 per LITER.
 
Turns out it could cost me $25 of real money to bypass PvP and use fast travel. Turns out the ships I make are $100 a pop. Turns out the 1.26kt loads I was hauling were about $38.48.
 
Beyond that you can pretty much get anything you want on those sites and just looking how much effort or real world money investment to how quickly it is destroyed is the real issue here. If I lose a ship with a full load im out $140 with just T1 mats factored in and knowing that I could pretty much be losing out on $250+ of real monitary worth.
 
No wonder they want to take away the $25 priveledge to warp since they can sieze shipments and make the equivelent of a weeks worth of pay if they worked a job multiple times a day depending on who they hit. Or that most of the stuff siezed from Territory wars will end up on here too when mega orgs ransack everything they can pillage.
 
If and when Alioth is stripped of PvP protection being the largest planet in the solar system as a home world will be catastropic and game ending for a large majority of people who dont care about the pirana PvP group ambush gankfest if it costs them potentially hundreds in real world $ to dip their toe in or put the work in constructing a warship to lose it in 3 mins after whoever gets missle locked first loses $100.
 
The real monetary cost of this game is real for the effort that goes into doing the most simplist of things. The system NQ has set up in DU is a gold farmers dream game apparently.

Id say let it simmer a little more and que up.

I agree with this. PvP for PvPs sake is fun for a time, but it quickly becomes hollow because there is nothing to fight over. People are getting bored and leaving because there is no impetus to build warships just to take out into an area with quite literally nothing in it; well except for similar people who haven't quite realized how...pointless the whole experience is.

What's holding DU back?
 
NQ

This thread has it all wrong. The sense of entitlement here knows no boujmds either.
 
I didnt kill your precious PvP, you did when you chased off most of the feeder fish or made them all quit
 
I put hundreds of millions into my ship and mined for a month, you didnt and you are not automatically entiteled to what I ear without effort
 
I am required to potentially piss away 32+ mil per round trip as a cost of business to avoid PvP, You are not required to pay anything for the priviledge to fight me
 
This isnt a PvP game, this is a strange new genre NQ created that is Player Vs Crafting with PvP as an after thought and a poorly concieved one at that.
 
Hate to break it to the PvPers here, but you have killed off the PvP before it ever got going and as a result killed off the weakest of the T1 Basic prey. Welcome to the T1 Advanced grade of PvP in which you forced everyone to go with warp. That was you who did that not me. You made it through EZ mode ganking/griefing defenseless new players, mining crews, or those too poor to afford or get to the point they could structure warp cells into the cost of doing business. That was you not me so deal with it. Are you going to cry foul if NQ ever gives us proper defenses when you come at us too when suddenly every hauler you go after is now a superfortress defense platform? too?
 
 In any good PvP savanah sim:
The lion/serial killer has to stalk their prey to find prime locations to hunt The lion/serial killerhas to ambush their prey and kill quickly Once the attack starts the prey is presented with the chance to fight or flee Once the chase begins the predator has to run down the prey and kill or the prey escapes Its the most basic formula there is to understand and if hunting animals or people were easy.. O wait it is! All you realistically have to do is camp Alioth and wait for the prey to come to you in a 1su killing field where all you need to do is do some homework and camp some lanes and use police wolf pack traffic tactics with a spotter and enforcer paradime whole shooting fish in a barrel like a bear snatching salmon out of a stream. And because you ate all the salmon that were easy you dont want to put in the work to run down the gazelle you are now required to chase and run down before it runs away and warps.
 
Guess what tho. My gameplay role gets further and further out of reach the more time goes on and the resources run out. The difficulty level gets harder by the day. Why not your gameplay loop? Why should I just hand you over my 120+ mil ship? Why should i not be able to have the choice to run especially if I am forced to pay a luxury tax to do so? Why should I have to mine a month of my hard earned effort over to you with no chance to keep it?
 
Essentially what is being asked for here is the ability to break my legs before the chase sequnce starts so that you can get free sack lunch handed to you because you dont want to put effort into the 300mil payday I represent. Months to fight the building tool to get the placements and parts to fit, optimize, and months to get the talents to fly it with putdowns, and all so that you can just rail all the ships out of the sky all day for what?
 
It would kill this game in 6 months if NQ hands over the disruptor when I still have no defenses in game to even slow down the loss of my ship. I still need quantum encryption, self destruct sequences, cloaking, traps, proxy mines, auto turrets, armor plating, and shielding, amongst other things like guns, rocket launchers, turrets, and basic quality of life defense systems. At the very least I should have the choice to blow my ship up to prevent you from taking my cargo. Let alone the ability to make that harder. Right now its either warp or lose months of effort or progress because the devs hate how I play and dont want me to be able to do anything when pvp happens needs to change.
 
You already have the easiest pvp experience I have ever seen with the coming territory wars to steal everything else and you want to end the game in 6 months from the point the add the disruptor all so free sack lunches can be passed out to 1 segment of the population until they run out and this game is dead? I already hate being forced to keep up with the 10hr mining requirements to meet production off mining constant 4kl nodes. You take one of my ships again and our org is pretty much gone. I am sure after the first, second, fifth, or tenth time 90% of everyone else left will too.
 
There needs to be a sepperation of weapons and armor dedicated to if it is an Attack Dynamic Core (L-A Dynamic Core) vs a Defense Static Core (L-D Static Core) so that different sepperations can be made like requiring the same class weapon (XS, S, M, L+) items are matched to the scale they should be should also allow a L-D Dynaic Core to have the most defense over weapons an A core should have as a fighter or bomber. Haulers need to become super fortresses that can repel attack and not just fall victim to sack lunch handovers of my hard earned work.
 

This thread has it all wrong. The sense of entitlement here knows no boujmds either.
 
I didnt kill your precious PvP, you did when you chased off most of the feeder fish or made them all quit
 
I put hundreds of millions into my ship and mined for a month, you didnt and you are not automatically entiteled to what I ear without effort
 
I am required to potentially piss away 32+ mil per round trip as a cost of business to avoid PvP, You are not required to pay anything for the priviledge to fight me
 
This isnt a PvP game, this is a strange new genre NQ created that is Player Vs Crafting with PvP as an after thought and a poorly concieved one at that.
 
Hate to break it to the PvPers here, but you have killed off the PvP before it ever got going and as a result killed off the weakest of the T1 Basic prey. Welcome to the T1 Advanced grade of PvP in which you forced everyone to go with warp. That was you who did that not me. You made it through EZ mode ganking/griefing defenseless new players, mining crews, or those too poor to afford or get to the point they could structure warp cells into the cost of doing business. That was you not me so deal with it. Are you going to cry foul if NQ ever gives us proper defenses when you come at us too when suddenly every hauler you go after is now a superfortress defense platform? too?
 
 In any good PvP savanah sim:
The lion/serial killer has to stalk their prey to find prime locations to hunt The lion/serial killerhas to ambush their prey and kill quickly Once the attack starts the prey is presented with the chance to fight or flee Once the chase begins the predator has to run down the prey and kill or the prey escapes Its the most basic formula there is to understand and if hunting animals or people were easy.. O wait it is! All you realistically have to do is camp Alioth and wait for the prey to come to you in a 1su killing field where all you need to do is do some homework and camp some lanes and use police wolf pack traffic tactics with a spotter and enforcer paradime whole shooting fish in a barrel like a bear snatching salmon out of a stream. And because you ate all the salmon that were easy you dont want to put in the work to run down the gazelle you are now required to chase and run down before it runs away and warps.
 
Guess what tho. My gameplay role gets further and further out of reach the more time goes on and the resources run out. The difficulty level gets harder by the day. Why not your gameplay loop? Why should I just hand you over my 120+ mil ship? Why should i not be able to have the choice to run especially if I am forced to pay a luxury tax to do so? Why should I have to mine a month of my hard earned effort over to you with no chance to keep it?
 
Essentially what is being asked for here is the ability to break my legs before the chase sequnce starts so that you can get free sack lunch handed to you because you dont want to put effort into the 300mil payday I represent. Months to fight the building tool to get the placements and parts to fit, optimize, and months to get the talents to fly it with putdowns, and all so that you can just rail all the ships out of the sky all day for what?
 
It would kill this game in 6 months if NQ hands over the disruptor when I still have no defenses in game to even slow down the loss of my ship. I still need quantum encryption, self destruct sequences, cloaking, traps, proxy mines, auto turrets, armor plating, and shielding, amongst other things like guns, rocket launchers, turrets, and basic quality of life defense systems. At the very least I should have the choice to blow my ship up to prevent you from taking my cargo. Let alone the ability to make that harder. Right now its either warp or lose months of effort or progress because the devs hate how I play and dont want me to be able to do anything when pvp happens needs to change.
 
You already have the easiest pvp experience I have ever seen with the coming territory wars to steal everything else and you want to end the game in 6 months from the point the add the disruptor all so free sack lunches can be passed out to 1 segment of the population until they run out and this game is dead? I already hate being forced to keep up with the 10hr mining requirements to meet production off mining constant 4kl nodes. You take one of my ships again and our org is pretty much gone. I am sure after the first, second, fifth, or tenth time 90% of everyone else left will too.
 
There needs to be a sepperation of weapons and armor dedicated to if it is an Attack Dynamic Core (L-A Dynamic Core) vs a Defense Static Core (L-D Static Core) so that different sepperations can be made like requiring the same class weapon (XS, S, M, L+) items are matched to the scale they should be should also allow a L-D Dynaic Core to have the most defense over weapons an A core should have as a fighter or bomber. Haulers need to become super fortresses that can repel attack and not just fall victim to sack lunch handovers of my hard earned work.
 

This is how I feel it's going as well. Honestly, this is the only game I had ever played that gave me an overwhelming sense of paranoia of other players while giving me zero sense of security.
 
Someone else had mentioned this very thing, and I don't know how many players feel the same way, but the fact that anyone feels it at all is a recipe for disaster. Think about it. If the hexes around you begin bristling with defenses, guns, etc. How long will it be before someone strikes first? And not out of territorial conquest, just out of simple fear the other guy will get stronger and strike you if you wait to long.
 
That is one thing (of many) the game sorely lacks. A sense of unity.

This thread has it all wrong. The sense of entitlement here knows no boujmds either.
 
I didnt kill your precious PvP, you did when you chased off most of the feeder fish or made them all quit
 
I put hundreds of millions into my ship and mined for a month, you didnt and you are not automatically entiteled to what I ear without effort
 
I am required to potentially piss away 32+ mil per round trip as a cost of business to avoid PvP, You are not required to pay anything for the priviledge to fight me
 
This isnt a PvP game, this is a strange new genre NQ created that is Player Vs Crafting with PvP as an after thought and a poorly concieved one at that.
 
Hate to break it to the PvPers here, but you have killed off the PvP before it ever got going and as a result killed off the weakest of the T1 Basic prey. Welcome to the T1 Advanced grade of PvP in which you forced everyone to go with warp. That was you who did that not me. You made it through EZ mode ganking/griefing defenseless new players, mining crews, or those too poor to afford or get to the point they could structure warp cells into the cost of doing business. That was you not me so deal with it. Are you going to cry foul if NQ ever gives us proper defenses when you come at us too when suddenly every hauler you go after is now a superfortress defense platform? too?
 
 In any good PvP savanah sim:
The lion/serial killer has to stalk their prey to find prime locations to hunt The lion/serial killerhas to ambush their prey and kill quickly Once the attack starts the prey is presented with the chance to fight or flee Once the chase begins the predator has to run down the prey and kill or the prey escapes Its the most basic formula there is to understand and if hunting animals or people were easy.. O wait it is! All you realistically have to do is camp Alioth and wait for the prey to come to you in a 1su killing field where all you need to do is do some homework and camp some lanes and use police wolf pack traffic tactics with a spotter and enforcer paradime whole shooting fish in a barrel like a bear snatching salmon out of a stream. And because you ate all the salmon that were easy you dont want to put in the work to run down the gazelle you are now required to chase and run down before it runs away and warps.
 
Guess what tho. My gameplay role gets further and further out of reach the more time goes on and the resources run out. The difficulty level gets harder by the day. Why not your gameplay loop? Why should I just hand you over my 120+ mil ship? Why should i not be able to have the choice to run especially if I am forced to pay a luxury tax to do so? Why should I have to mine a month of my hard earned effort over to you with no chance to keep it?
 
Essentially what is being asked for here is the ability to break my legs before the chase sequnce starts so that you can get free sack lunch handed to you because you dont want to put effort into the 300mil payday I represent. Months to fight the building tool to get the placements and parts to fit, optimize, and months to get the talents to fly it with putdowns, and all so that you can just rail all the ships out of the sky all day for what?
 
It would kill this game in 6 months if NQ hands over the disruptor when I still have no defenses in game to even slow down the loss of my ship. I still need quantum encryption, self destruct sequences, cloaking, traps, proxy mines, auto turrets, armor plating, and shielding, amongst other things like guns, rocket launchers, turrets, and basic quality of life defense systems. At the very least I should have the choice to blow my ship up to prevent you from taking my cargo. Let alone the ability to make that harder. Right now its either warp or lose months of effort or progress because the devs hate how I play and dont want me to be able to do anything when pvp happens needs to change.
 
You already have the easiest pvp experience I have ever seen with the coming territory wars to steal everything else and you want to end the game in 6 months from the point the add the disruptor all so free sack lunches can be passed out to 1 segment of the population until they run out and this game is dead? I already hate being forced to keep up with the 10hr mining requirements to meet production off mining constant 4kl nodes. You take one of my ships again and our org is pretty much gone. I am sure after the first, second, fifth, or tenth time 90% of everyone else left will too.
 
There needs to be a sepperation of weapons and armor dedicated to if it is an Attack Dynamic Core (L-A Dynamic Core) vs a Defense Static Core (L-D Static Core) so that different sepperations can be made like requiring the same class weapon (XS, S, M, L+) items are matched to the scale they should be should also allow a L-D Dynaic Core to have the most defense over weapons an A core should have as a fighter or bomber. Haulers need to become super fortresses that can repel attack and not just fall victim to sack lunch handovers of my hard earned work.
 

This thread has it all wrong. The sense of entitlement here knows no boujmds either.
 
I didnt kill your precious PvP, you did when you chased off most of the feeder fish or made them all quit
 
I put hundreds of millions into my ship and mined for a month, you didnt and you are not automatically entiteled to what I ear without effort
 
I am required to potentially piss away 32+ mil per round trip as a cost of business to avoid PvP, You are not required to pay anything for the priviledge to fight me
 
This isnt a PvP game, this is a strange new genre NQ created that is Player Vs Crafting with PvP as an after thought and a poorly concieved one at that.
 
Hate to break it to the PvPers here, but you have killed off the PvP before it ever got going and as a result killed off the weakest of the T1 Basic prey. Welcome to the T1 Advanced grade of PvP in which you forced everyone to go with warp. That was you who did that not me. You made it through EZ mode ganking/griefing defenseless new players, mining crews, or those too poor to afford or get to the point they could structure warp cells into the cost of doing business. That was you not me so deal with it. Are you going to cry foul if NQ ever gives us proper defenses when you come at us too when suddenly every hauler you go after is now a superfortress defense platform? too?
 
 In any good PvP savanah sim:
The lion/serial killer has to stalk their prey to find prime locations to hunt The lion/serial killerhas to ambush their prey and kill quickly Once the attack starts the prey is presented with the chance to fight or flee Once the chase begins the predator has to run down the prey and kill or the prey escapes Its the most basic formula there is to understand and if hunting animals or people were easy.. O wait it is! All you realistically have to do is camp Alioth and wait for the prey to come to you in a 1su killing field where all you need to do is do some homework and camp some lanes and use police wolf pack traffic tactics with a spotter and enforcer paradime whole shooting fish in a barrel like a bear snatching salmon out of a stream. And because you ate all the salmon that were easy you dont want to put in the work to run down the gazelle you are now required to chase and run down before it runs away and warps.
 
Guess what tho. My gameplay role gets further and further out of reach the more time goes on and the resources run out. The difficulty level gets harder by the day. Why not your gameplay loop? Why should I just hand you over my 120+ mil ship? Why should i not be able to have the choice to run especially if I am forced to pay a luxury tax to do so? Why should I have to mine a month of my hard earned effort over to you with no chance to keep it?
 
Essentially what is being asked for here is the ability to break my legs before the chase sequnce starts so that you can get free sack lunch handed to you because you dont want to put effort into the 300mil payday I represent. Months to fight the building tool to get the placements and parts to fit, optimize, and months to get the talents to fly it with putdowns, and all so that you can just rail all the ships out of the sky all day for what?
 
It would kill this game in 6 months if NQ hands over the disruptor when I still have no defenses in game to even slow down the loss of my ship. I still need quantum encryption, self destruct sequences, cloaking, traps, proxy mines, auto turrets, armor plating, and shielding, amongst other things like guns, rocket launchers, turrets, and basic quality of life defense systems. At the very least I should have the choice to blow my ship up to prevent you from taking my cargo. Let alone the ability to make that harder. Right now its either warp or lose months of effort or progress because the devs hate how I play and dont want me to be able to do anything when pvp happens needs to change.
 
You already have the easiest pvp experience I have ever seen with the coming territory wars to steal everything else and you want to end the game in 6 months from the point the add the disruptor all so free sack lunches can be passed out to 1 segment of the population until they run out and this game is dead? I already hate being forced to keep up with the 10hr mining requirements to meet production off mining constant 4kl nodes. You take one of my ships again and our org is pretty much gone. I am sure after the first, second, fifth, or tenth time 90% of everyone else left will too.
 
There needs to be a sepperation of weapons and armor dedicated to if it is an Attack Dynamic Core (L-A Dynamic Core) vs a Defense Static Core (L-D Static Core) so that different sepperations can be made like requiring the same class weapon (XS, S, M, L+) items are matched to the scale they should be should also allow a L-D Dynaic Core to have the most defense over weapons an A core should have as a fighter or bomber. Haulers need to become super fortresses that can repel attack and not just fall victim to sack lunch handovers of my hard earned work.
 

I love pvp but this is not a pvp game. Its not even a PvE game. Its not even a survival game its meant to be. They missed the mark and somehow created their own genre I would only describe as PvC or player vs crafting.
 
Just because they added some half baked rare pvp does not make it so. There is no skill in it in a skill driven game. Its ambush pvp at best and that is saying a lot. Territory wars will not make it better. The PvP redesign will not help either as they have no idea what they are doing or they would have done it being the core of this game. But they didnt, and they wont. Its just a much as a gimmick as it was in EQN Landmark.
 
Ultimately its a crafting and building game built on the back of a higher resolution mine craft and it fails hard at that too. The only thing this game has going for it is the ship building, base building, and industry. Not PvP. And since they brought in the crafting community and baited PvPers in this game will never work with how much effort it takes to mine, process, craft, buy, build, and run a base vs how quickly it will be destroyed with the faux PvP is 2500:1. This is not a PvP game or people would be throwing away 100+ mil ships like candy and willing to fight, but like 5% of the community likely does any kind of PvP.
 
It aint a PvP game as much as the devs or the PvPers here want it to be. Or how much they tell the "carebears" to leave who do they think makes everything and mines everything for their to fight or gank ships from? Certainly aint PvPers.
 
Territory Wars? All that is going to do is clear the planets of the bogarted juice tiles and pretty much they likely already own most of them from when they were able to drop 100k putdowns of TU's that is now 2mil. So basically once they wipe out all the cache tiles of people who no longer play or the small org staging bases nobody will ever build a base outside of Alioth and PvP is dead.
 
New universe to PvP in? Its mega org exclusive content nobody else will ever evperience once they blockade the jumpgate / star gates. Dead content for 500-1000 people for their own personal server solar system to destroy everyone else just that much faster after wholesale systematic stripmining that they own most if not all of already.
 
This aint a PvP game.

And i find it funny how either oblivious or willfully ignorant you are that you think many of us are "anti-pvp" just because we dont agree with YOU or boo in general and instantly go into "cry moar carebears" mode. If you actully read our posts most of us are PRO pvp and would LOVE pvp content in the game, hell many of us crave it likey as much or more then YOU. However, we also would like there to BE a game to enjoy the pvp in and for there to be a POINT to the pvp aside from "lulz me r blew up teh noobs"
 
Your vision would not help the game and infact hurts it and quite badly.....at this time. Currently the game is not in a state where limiting options and forcing players into fights that they are likely to lose due to broken mechanics, balance issies, missing features and a SCORE of other problems is nothing but a negitive for the game. Right now we have exactly 3 flushed out mechanics. Mineing, building and flying. thats it.
 
Currently industry is broken as "only 10% of players" are supposed to use it, and while currently a determined player CAN force their way into it, the cost is so obscene that its a bad joke to new players. PvP is full of issues as noted by MANY players. There is really only 1 gameplay loop, mine to make stuff to mine more. There is zero reward to PvP aside from people like you getting to laugh as you destroy some poor carebear. And exploration is a bad joke right now especially considering how bloody long it takes and how limited most players who actully have a jobs time is. Compounding all of this is the fact there are ZERO counters to pvp that prey can use. No ECM, no jamming of radars to make targeting harder, no stealth fields, no powering down, nothing. The only solution is to build a space only warship or to jump.
 
If you then further restrict the game and start making it so travel and by extension industry and trade is even more restricted and gated off as well as blow up ships of players when getting started to begin with is already such a huge problem, then all you do is drive yet more players off. Especially with all the problems listed above, and in addition to there being no POINT to pvp. no reward no nothing. Even T4 and T5 mats are literally worthless as there is no point to them beyond fluff. No one is going to willingly risk hours or days of work for NOTHING and having it forced upon them makes them just say "to hell with this" and leave. 
 
Infact many of us have pointed out once these are addressed your idea would be much more viable and that we even AGREE warp is a problem that needs to be addressed LATER when the game has more loops, less bugs, more features, better PvP countermeasures, and more things to do in general ontop of a REASON to PvP and a reward worth the risk.
 
Then again as i said you boohoos dont care you just want to watch everything burn so you can shoot up some ships.

Lol I tried to offer to come scoop them, hook them up with a ship/base, rations, etc to help get them past some of the hurdles but even stil they chose not to play the game. They arent the first new player either that I offered that deal to but they are so turned off by the tutorial and the start that most give up before they even get going and I almost quit before I got rolling too. Im sure many other new players dont even take the time to even voice their concerns before they quit.
 
New players need some starting faction to pull together organizations and to have a fully functional ship, base, ration generations of gas/scrap and the ability to at least try out all the roles before going into one of the 3-4 main roles within the game. Without being able to try any of the industry right up front or allowing for some self sufficiency is a bad president to set even if they want to force conformed micro compartmentalized roles. It just simply does not work that way nor the type of playstles or play time people typically have on any given day being on the average of 1-4 hours for most people. Not being able to do anything beyond 1 role especially for our industry guy who has nothing to do since he cant fly, cant mine, cant run the machine, or pretty much play the game right now beyond moral support is rediculous for both new, current, or vet players.
 
There is no real higher function or purpose to most of the game as it currently is beyond mass producing and saturation of the market just to do it since nobody really wants to pvp and most features are being nerfed and somehow that is supposed to be a good thing when there should be more freedom, more renewable resources, more production, and JC just might get his epic single spacewar battle otherwise its JC handing large orgs everything while everyone else might see the content before JC again nerfs everything in the game so a handful of orgs can have fun while everyone else is being strangled by red tape and bone headed decisions. The vision is killing this game.
 
It will never be Eve, Star Citizen or any of the already niche market games they listed. Its a fact that they do it better and they make more money. a mine craft clone with space elements and EQN landmark building in a limited single solar system game is not my idea of shooting for the stars as it were and failing pretty hard in all aspects.
 
I was joking with my mining buddy that if this were told from the perspective of a story or movie it would have played out like:
 
Remember that time in EP4 of Star Wars when Obi Wan, Luke, Han, and Chewie were going to leave Mos Esiley pinned down by storm troopers who are growing by the minuite but they couldnt leave because the Millennium Falcon needed 12 L stabilizers to get it off the ground  but they spend the rest of the moving trying to position the stabilizers because they needed a bunch of space and couldnt find enough space to fit more than 4 so they finally got arrested by the Empire 1hr 42mins into the movie?
 
Yeah me either...
 
Anyone remember that time in Star Trek when the Klingons fired 6 torpedoes at the Starship Enterprise and it blew up instantly because there was no defense systems developed and they just flat out stole the ship and the show became some wierd spinoff with some bazaro cast of space pirate klingons griefing the universe?
 
Yeah me either...
 
Anyone remember that time in SG1 when the team got pinned down by the replicators and they thought they were gonners until some random patch updated their software and they lacked the schematic to kill humans and hard to go to the market and got scalped since all the market bots bought up the schematics and fleeced the replicators for 3x the price and instead they had to go mining for weeks on end and by the time they went to kill the SG1 team they were long gone?
 
Yeah me either...
 
Anyone remember that time in the Matrix when Trinity wanted to fly the helicopter after saving Morpheus and she went to download the Piloting Talents and her que said that at 90 exp per min it would take her 171 days to be able to fully fly the helicopter and they all died one by one surrounded stuck on the roof by agents and military until the credits rolled?
 
Yeah me neither...
 
It wouldnt be funny if it wasnt how this game plays normally. There is so much red tape and limitations that you cant have heroic moments or cool experiences in this game because the Dystopic Vision demands punishment and gind and monotony their dominatrix would be proud of. Rather then allowing people enough resources as a single or small org crew to even start to fight or do anything since the only real playstyle that matters is PvP or at least the first strike ambush gank pvp playstyle. You can at least cut through 90% of the red tape just by siezing ships then the headache it is to mine, process, craft, and sell items at a loss since most PvP players siezing items dont care how much they post it for and crafters are hurting for money and undercutting themselves just to try and break even before the inflation really hits before they turn around and add mining bots to then oversaturate and undo what they attempted to do. All without any real purpose or function or the ability to make our own markets or give reason to the only thing we can do really is to mine, make items, then gank more items. Its not a very solid gameplay loop.

Why did you post the same thing 6 times? It doesn't matter. I've pretty much moved on and am playing other games that aren't ridiculously over complicated for no good reason other than to gate and hamstring progression.

I love pvp but this is not a pvp game. Its not even a PvE game. Its not even a survival game its meant to be. They missed the mark and somehow created their own genre I would only describe as PvC or player vs crafting.
 
Just because they added some half baked rare pvp does not make it so. There is no skill in it in a skill driven game. Its ambush pvp at best and that is saying a lot. Territory wars will not make it better. The PvP redesign will not help either as they have no idea what they are doing or they would have done it being the core of this game. But they didnt, and they wont. Its just a much as a gimmick as it was in EQN Landmark.
 
Ultimately its a crafting and building game built on the back of a higher resolution mine craft and it fails hard at that too. The only thing this game has going for it is the ship building, base building, and industry. Not PvP. And since they brought in the crafting community and baited PvPers in this game will never work with how much effort it takes to mine, process, craft, buy, build, and run a base vs how quickly it will be destroyed with the faux PvP is 2500:1. This is not a PvP game or people would be throwing away 100+ mil ships like candy and willing to fight, but like 5% of the community likely does any kind of PvP.
 
It aint a PvP game as much as the devs or the PvPers here want it to be. Or how much they tell the "carebears" to leave who do they think makes everything and mines everything for their to fight or gank ships from? Certainly aint PvPers.
 
Territory Wars? All that is going to do is clear the planets of the bogarted juice tiles and pretty much they likely already own most of them from when they were able to drop 100k putdowns of TU's that is now 2mil. So basically once they wipe out all the cache tiles of people who no longer play or the small org staging bases nobody will ever build a base outside of Alioth and PvP is dead.
 
New universe to PvP in? Its mega org exclusive content nobody else will ever evperience once they blockade the jumpgate / star gates. Dead content for 500-1000 people for their own personal server solar system to destroy everyone else just that much faster after wholesale systematic stripmining that they own most if not all of already.
 
This aint a PvP game.

The game was advertised as a civilization building game. My issue with the direction ZDU is going is that there are no mechanics which promote large scale cooperation and large scale conflict (pvp). The minute someone buys a lot next to me, the only thought I have is "as soon as pvp rolls out, not only do I have to kill my neighbor, but I also need to make sure that he is completely bankrupt so he can never do the same to me"" that is a really terrible way to play. Just awful. 

I don't need to measure it. All I need to know (speed, time and distance to the star) is displayed in the game.

Neither do I. Its some basic baseline numbers that are semi realistic (mileage may vary since a lot of numbers are so far off the mark).
 
Im not expecting it to be real nor do I want it to be a mirror image of reality as it would not leave any room for the Sci-fi that everyone really wants since this Nazi WW2 V2 Fossil Fuel V2 Rocket sim meets Kittyhawk learning to fly at the dawn of space flight wright bros sim they have going frankly sucks ass and I hope they start phasing that archaeic system out for more fun and efficient sci-fi parts to where I dont need 300 Stabilizers to fly 2 L containes of gold..
 
Just saying to clarify.

The thing is unless they have the different solar systems as faction based systems with multiple solar systems fighting against each while working together with those that start there this galactic epic space war wet dream will never organically occur to where people are working together enough to wage a war against themselves vs turning all their power towards everyone weaker then them when it should be a civilization pulling together for survival with all orgs working to fullfull all the roles and making it so that anyone other than large orgs has enough disposable income to even fight in the first place. Who in their right mind is going to throw away potentially hundred of millions of credits night after night fighting a war when we barely even are given enough slack to make a small fleet to just perform daily functions that needs to last as long as possible before that 120+ mil in replacement parts hits.
 
There is never a point that I have felt with all the grind of grief loops under the gun to do anything that felt like I had enough of anything as a 3 man crew to sit back and feel like I finally have enough of a base, fleet, industry to say Ok cool now im ready to become a 3 man sar fighter wing to do anything. Since everyone is an enemy potentially I feel like I have only the allies in my crew rather than a civilization of allies for any need to work together. Since PvP is broken, years out of my price range, and trying to get an industry set up to make all parts to one day run a player hosted and connected market with market stalls is my only real long goal as I never see PvP amounting to anything more than lone griefers or at best when territory wars hit Zerg Griefers.
 
One the large orges take over all the bogarted juice tiles and caches of stockpiled resources of people who no longer play and finish taking over anything of value then nobody will likely ever build a base outside Alioth except large orgs and at that point PvP is totally dead no matter how much they revamp it since obviously they dont know what they are doing this far along in development to make it work.
 
But PvE will never work either since if they have weapons you will lose every time unless you get the jump on them and even still I expect nothing worth risking again potentially hundreds of millions for slight gains I could have gotten in technology know I could just as well let someone else take all the risk and that the market will likely be saturated with then soon enough and cheap enough to further not justify fighting npcs since it will take me years until I finally get around to PvP talents which will likely = PvE talents as well. Especially since i could just mine and buy it off the market for 0 risk.
 
But honestly tho there is no endgame in a sandbox game. Technically if you have all the new schematics and parts production you are already at endgame the same as the basic standard issue mining, same with pvp. This is pretty much 70% of the game being complete. It does not get much better from here it only get harder as resources become more scarce and grabbing ore just always stays just out of reach no matter if you have T5 everything its always just that much further away trying to break even once all the tiles are systematically strip mined or the mining bots clean the rest up in record time.
 
Missions wont help either unless it is in PvP protected areas just to add more cut rate abitrary tasks that likely wont pay what its worth to do with other players taking the same mission. It will be fun for a week.
 
NQ just does not have any reliable content built for longevity that isnt wrapped in 10 layers of sinks and grind that gets multipled by the requirements generated through your industry that keeps you chained down to the 9-5 mining job you are forced into.There is no other seemingly planned way of getting money other then mining, ganking ships, or perhaps grinding NPCs that will likely be 10x more grindy then mining or on top of it being griefed by space goblins every 5 mins which will make mining take 10x longer then it does now.
 
Endgame... Its not about how long youll play that defines endgame in DU is how much bad game design and grind/punishment/time&money sinks youll put up with before you hit your own personal endgame and find a better game. I dont think they ever thought that far out to create some kind of end game since they are essentially flying by the seat of their pants with a box of bandaids and elbow grease and some ductape to keep this thing from falling apart to just get to the grand opening.
 
Lol endgame... that was a good one. I didnt know I needed a good laugh this morning so truely thanks for that op.

Hi! New-ish player here with a question for the Devs. I wasn't sure where to post this exactly so, I figured I would drop it here and hopefully, they will see it. Anyway, as a female gamer, this is the first time I have played a Voxel type game and so far, I am fairly impressed. That being said, when I look at what is being projected for the future of DU, I am a little concerned about the game loop. This is my understanding of what DU will be in the future. Mine, build, make ships, fight other players constantly to hold on to that which I have built. Repeat. So far, no mention of NPCs, no real exploration, or jobs outside of always having to be prepared for war. I am not asking that anything necessarily be changed, I would just like to know if there are any plans in the works for non pvp players like me. Will I actually have a place in this game?
Again, this is a question for the Devs, not player speculation. 
Also, please do not just tell me to stay on Sanctuary. That is just demeaning and dismissive.
Thank you!

1- I'm glad I gave you a good laugh
2- I agree with the points you made there. 
Working together in factions is far more enjoyable than small scale pvp. I fail to see the civilization building part in this game about civilization building. 

Well, the laws of physics don't change with time as far as I know xD so 10.000 years into the future we'll still need wings to fly in an atmospheric environment.
I find it strange tho that nobody remembers that 10k years ago humans used to fly with the Antonov nn-225 which had 88m of wingspan (~30m per wing) and the best we can do now is stack puny little m wings.

Everything is balanced to fit the micro universe we would call a solar system that we are currently trapped in. It has a lot to do with limitations of the engine and nature of the voxels and rendering the millions of holes and point cloud data. Essentially a universe is a server and we can barely fill one so there is no need for them to add more. You would think if it were easy then they would be banging out new solar systems to form at least a galaxy or that there would be plenty to explore in other solar systems to at least give us a semi galaxy to play in. It should be as easy as using their world generation tools to spit out planets, run a resource generation script, maybe drop some markets or districts, a jump gate connection via circa 1999 UO/EQ zoning tech and create a network of pathways resembling a galaxy with lots of places to colonize since they are empty.
 
Yet NQ is waiting on developing alien npcs, tech, and all that just to add 1 new solar system as it buys them time to develop content when it should be all made into a script. Since they cant/wont do that they cap your speed, stats, and potential becuase they wont make the galaxy larger. If they did uncap the speed there would be no need for warp which is their only way to drain money for the luxury of fast travel when you would think at this point would be pretty much standard means to travel. It would simply make the game feel incredibly small and so they limit everything because there is no real content to hide that fact.
 
Also who are the PvPers going to gank if you could get out into open space and they actually had to hunt for people rather than sitting in lanes waiting for unsuspecting players or the insane braking times for even a handful of full containers? Where would the huge war JC has wet dreams about each night come crom if there was actual room?
 
I dont know where the idea of dual univers comes from but the micro solar system approach aint going to cut it forever.

I'm an alpha player that started in January of 2018 with thousands of hours in the game, hell, probably approaching a thousand hours since pre-beta.  I would welcome a wipe IF:
 
1) The game came back with ZERO bots allowing for the promised player based economy to actually be a player based economy
2) Schematics were seriously reworked.  I fine  with having to buy, oh, say, Tier 3 and above schematics - once.  Not once for every warp cell factory. 
3) They get back to a lore based architecture:
     A)  Stupid not being able to duplicate, at low cost, a schematic for ones own use 10,000 years into our future.
     B ) Rockets?  Really?  How about fusion jets (aka FireFly)
4) Massive reduction is skillcounts.  It should take 6 years of game play to master industrial skills or months to master iron processing just to have to start over to do aluminum.  e.g.  Let the sandbox be a sandbox again.  OK with concepts like "Tier 1 mining", but not 5 Tier 1 mining skills.
5) Removal of luck based windfalls - keep the playing field level.
6)  Total revamp of PVP.  Stupid that an XS ship can dead-stop in front of a moving L ship and destroy the L ship while taking no damage.  That was perfectly acceptable in Alpha, as a placeholder, not in Beta.
 
Alas, I fear none of those things will come to pass.