Emptiness

With the preparation for and release of 0.23, the task of finding out if we can raise the reaction limit on the forums has creeped down my personal priority list.
 
We are still planning to update the overall look of the forums, and I suspect once we get our designer on that job we'll revisit the matter of reacts.  

I will say that, upon pondering it further, I do wonder if giving people the option of a "dislike" will be detrimental to the overall quality of discussion. I see it frequently on places like Reddit, where the 'downvote' button is supposed to be used to dampen irrelevant content but is, unfortunately, frequently used to 'brigade' people or express discontent/anger instead. (@vertex makes this point very well in their post further up this topic.)

Without turning this into a rant, I'd like to justify my position that Schematics make no sense whatsoever (after taking some time to think about the patch). I feel many people may be bothered by this patch and can't quite put a finger on exactly what is the root of all the angst. I'm going to make an attempt boil things down to the broad statement that:
 
"Users are bothered by crafting Schematics in the latest patch because everyone knows it's an unrealistic, game developer only artificial mechanism to slow user progression in the game."
 
Consider the following:
In just the last  ~50 years, the internet and digital technology has revolutionized how information has been disseminated to the masses. Look at Mp3's & Napster 20 years ago. Now basically any Movies and TV shows can be available on-demand anywhere. 3D Printing is in its infancy and already millions of modeling files can be found to print many useful and useless things for free or near free. One can now google almost any topic and go down a rabbit hole if they so choose to learn many things only taught by institutions and experts.  The trend is clearly towards more information to more people faster and with less barriers, including money.   
Now fast forward 500+ years into the future... the cost of schematics make absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm not saying a game needs to be perfectly realistic, but this is so far removed from anything plausible that any regular user using this mechanic knows it's a completely artificial developer solution to an in game market balancing problem.  This is not just "users not liking a big change" situation.
 
I know the game is in flux but I'd like to state that I believe NQ had things closer to "right" without schematics for industry.
The intellectual property cost of things in game should be at or next to nothing and user/market driven If industry schematics were to be implemented, they should be for improvements upon existing items or creations which can be easily replicated, user priced and sold on free markets. It's just more fun to have a goal that is attainable solo within a few weeks of work instead of artificially restricting players to socialize, coordinate and grind forever in order to build a single advanced schematic.  It "feels" wrong to gamers because they know it's a restriction limiting their freedom to play the game they way they want to. Even if it has it's intended effect on markets and industry production, the game is worse off than it is now from a "fun" perspective.  Players are smart, and they instinctively know when they are being bent towards a certain vision vs given a change for the better. This is introducing a massive grind/time sink onto something that already took weeks to work towards.  
I don't have all the solutions to the challenges NQ faces with markets & user progression but I believe this patch is not the right solution, this sucks the fun out of the game and is going to continue to do so in the future. Unfortunately, because NQ is running on a Subscription model during BETA to keep things afloat fiscally, maintaining their user base is critical to the survivability of the company moving forward and an unhappy userbase (right or wrong) can spell the end of the game .
 
FWIW my major was in Technology and have 20+ years industry experience. Hoping NQ has some tricks up their sleeve and can prove me wrong!
 
 
 
 

except for talents toward partly trained skills. those went poof. Someone lost a few weeks worth...

So near the end of my 3 month sub, played for a solid 2 months of it then just occasionally the last couple of weeks up until the patch. I will not be renewing (decided this pre-patch already)
 
This patch has honestly terrified me, I can see what NQ is trying to do - but IMO its a big gamble that may backfire. I'll use myself as an example:
 
I've been playing the game to have fun (like most players I hope!), amass some wealth, mine and had the most fun hooking up factories to produce everything of all sizes up to T3.  After producing almost everything, (and honestly have more fun knitting the factory together than anything else) and being happy to have amassed ~32m (which is not much relative to some players and a lot to others) I thought after this patch I'd be able to have some fun still buying a few schematics and setting up a few specialized assembly lines for a few of the T2-3 things. I should add I'm out on Feli and kinda like it here, along with probably dozen other players or so... 
 
Wow, the price to get started is not only steep, they are astronomical - this game would be a complete grind fest for me to continue moving forward. I do not want to make and sell 300 billion xs & s parts to eventually afford enough to buy an M schematic and M related components. I'm afraid to buy any higher priced schematic because the game is still in flux and i have a feeling they may have to adjust pricing a few times, or everyone else has the same idea and will build the same thing.  Additionally, i'll likely have to move back to the soul crushing FPS Destroying markets on Alioth... around people... this is really against the grain with my own playstyle.
 
Looks like solving complex factory wirings will be going away for me as well. I had the most fun making a do-everything factory - now I'm forced to make a simple widget factory in order to grind out enough widgets and dollars to maybe one day afford another widget factory to do this all over again. 😕 
 
I sure hope this game works out in the long run, I've had a blast playing it so far - Good luck NQ! I'll check back in a year and see where it's at
 

No. Bot orders should be entirely removed.

Originally NQ said they were considering some kind of instanced virtual building simulation in the game.  aka creative mode.
 
Then they changed their mind and decided it went against the "vision".  Not saying they don't change their minds a lot.  But in this case they are considering changing it back.
 
Honestly they have an amazing toy here, just in the building part of the game, i don't see any good reason not to let people play with it.  If people are building stuff in a creative mode, they're still in the game.  They're still contributing creatively, and socially to the game.  And if they build stuff that people want to buy, then they're contributing to the game's economy too.
 
 The only difference between someone sitting on the sanctuary moon and building stuff, and sitting in a creative mode instance, would be access to free materials. 
 
They're still in the game.  Still paying a sub too.
 
 
 

Tell that to the diamond cartels.

Question: Why do CAD and simulation software exist in real life? Why do humans IRL not just slap stuff together and see if it will fly?
 
If the game still required balancing thrust around center of mass (like I hear it did way back in early Alpha), this becomes even more important.
 
People should be able to learn game systems without needing to risk days, weeks, or months of grinding if they get it wrong.

Tell that to the diamond cartels.

With good mining skills and access to T1 megas, I can make ~10 million quanta per hour with these higher bot buy prices. It's freaking boring as hell but it can be a living. Made ~80mil in the past two days doing this.

Look, the majority of your player base does not like this patch. and you should be more than aware of it. There were things that could have been done, things that have been suggested on here a multitude of times in the past. This patch... despite your Discord Q&A, and all of your live streams, all it showed us is that you simply did not listen to your player base, or their ideas. We are the beta testers, and we have given our feedback on so many, if not all of the currently available  aspects, and tools of the game which could increase the enjoyability for everyone.
 
your testers are leaving. I've seen several people  cancel their subscription, myself included. My sub ends on JAN 11 2021, and from how things are looking, I do not think Ill be resubbing after that date. However it isn't too late. There are other updates which could fix this, patches that can draw DU's community back to the game. After watching your discord, the forums, and talking to so many other players from in game, and on other discord servers. I think I can summarize the changes needed which could bring some the faith back to DU's community.
 
1: SCHEMATICS: Now I want to say this first. Schematics are not inherently bad, however the way it has been implemented is the biggest problem we have here. It was implemented to bring value to intermediate parts, and to suck money out of the world. You want to have players buy them off of the market. you want the market to be used, correct? There were better ways to handle this problem. 

Schematics can stay, but not for everything. By placing them on absolutely every item that we can produced through a factory unit, you have effectively placed a ransomware on your own game. We cant do anything anymore without forking over absurd amounts of cash to get access to the game. This is not a model for any level of play. New comer's will be turned away from this, and more experienced players will simply give up on the game, which they have done.

Basic Items of all types should be free of schematics. Doing this allows everyone to at least experience the core  aspects of DU. we can build, fly around and explore. DU can feel like a game again, and not a second virtual job. 

Schematics can be on everything else. Military engines, advanced, or uncommon parts, advanced weapons. Everything that isn't tier 1 should have a schematic in order to give your player base a goal, a reason to want to improve, to invest time into DU. (but maybe release tier 1 weapons as civilian weapons that need T1 and T2 ores only.  just so that newbies can get the feel of how combat works in this game, yea?)

2:RECYCLERS AND SCRAP: recyclers are sitting In a weird spot, right? they only have 2 uses. To make scrap, and to pump out gasses. These two simple jobs makes recyclers relatively useless in the grander scheme of the game when compared to all of the other industry elements. What if they didn't have to be? what if they could be redesigned to be one of the most important industrial units in the game, and provide a way to fuel the economy in way we currently cannot reproduce on our own through emergent gameplay? What if.... they could... Recycle? 
 
Scrap as it stands now was an OK Method to repair our elements in the earlier days of this game. but those days are long gone, and you need a reason for the market to exist, you need a reason for people to sell small parts, intermediate parts on these markets! Ok. We can do that, and recyclers are the answer. Allow recyclers to break down elements, and damaged elements with less that 3, or 5 repairs left. Allow the amount of "lives" of an element determine how many intermediate components a recycler can pull out of any particular element. Allow it to be random in which parts are chosen. For example, if you recycle one space engine, you get the ionic chamber, and a few screws. If you recycle a second one, you could get the reinforced frame, and a burner or two. It could also produce scrap still!  Scrap can come in the form of a useless item that needs to be further broken down to remake pure metals. But wait. what will we use to repair our elements if  scrap becomes useless? INTERMEDIATE PARTS!

look at Space engineers for inspiration. we use components to repair their broken blocks. You do not need to equip the parts you need, the welding tool simply pulls the correct parts out of your inventory, and applies them to the damaged block until it is repaired! Its simple, its elegant, and immersive. Doing this creates not only an actual engineering role for crew members, but it creates salvagers, recycling plants dedicated to breaking down old parts. It creates jobs in DU that people can take their roll in, and  enjoy. This can be even furthered with skills to make recyclers more efficient at pulling out parts, and breaking down elements faster.
 
Intermediate  parts will be in high demand  on the markets after this because they are NEEDED to repair elements as opposed to scrap. 

PS: make cores repairable with intermediate parts too. larger dynamic cores are already hard to make, having the ability to restore them with the rare parts they require would be a nice thing to have. 

 

Okay, bye. 😎
 
checking the kickstarter, what about this goal: 
did that get cancelled? 
 
edit: what about this promise: The economy in Dual Universe is realistic and under player control

Lies. The bot orders buying t1/t2 ores and selling schematics are a blatant betrayal.

Good? Why do you want to gatekeep the ability to build creatively without needing to grind for materials? JC said only blueprints will be able to be taken out, and I see no problem with that.

Imagine how many brilliant design I could create with unlimited access to elements, like how many things I can create with a pencil and a piece of paper.
I see no reason not to have a creative mode as it will take nothing out of the game.

still confused as to why it'll break the shard up?
people wont be able to play the game if its loaded locally and only on a single hex. hell remove the mining tools if that's still to much playing for your tastes
 
If its anything more than been a legit tool to give a little more freedom to build stuff for the main game then no its a bad idea

What do blueprints take away from the economy?
the materials to actually build said item will need to still come from the in game economy
 
Personally id rather build in a creative mode that is fully offline, then gather the needed materials in the true game to be able to deploy it

Is it just me or do the responses seem to show frustration, with just a hint of resentment? Each answer seems to show an increasing level of anger, like he's mad at the players for what they've done with his game. 🤔
 

We heard that one week after talents were implemented too and you STILL can't apply free sp with one click or return to previous talents with a click. Or have an actual useful UI at all with talents. To arrange them and stuff. Was asked years ago and was ignored back then too. Sorry, but that line of yours doesn't mean anything when nothing changes 

Hi Naunet, thanks for replying.
 
I'm not very familiar with discord. I don't know who issued the mute, all I got was a 'Dyno' message with no details.  A friend say to contact @ModeratorMail but that ended replying this:
 
 
I'm not sure opening a ticket just for this is worth it considering the ticket average time resolution.
 
Thanks.

I am not trying to start something here, but that is a fallacy. The person most unlikely to look at the complaint impartially, is the person who applied the ban in the first place.

I'm a long time supporter. 
I get a full day ban from the discord over that joke : https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/304455542162587649/787072941657161758 
during the whole hour I was in the channel, numerous people were insulting and trolling each others and no moderation occurred.
I mean wth NQ ? you can't take a joke? 
 
ss in case:
 

Sell ore to bots.

Now get back in the mines. The mining slaves don't get to ask questions.

Why should that affect anything? Why should it ever have affected the market orders? Fixing it should be as simple as deploy new market, adjust line of code in market control script to access that part of the database again. Done.

Excuse me? Are you saying no blueprints were made of those markets? 'Fixing' it should be as simple as deleting the old construct and replacing it. A task that would take a couple minutes, maximum, with the blueprints.
 
This is a reaction I would expect from children in a sandbox, not mature adults.
 
edit: Apparently the 'quick fix' is a reference to the market orders.
 
To which I have exactly one reply: What?

Market orders should be stored in the database and no removal of market constructs should EVER affect those.

Yeah - too bad the person whose vision the game is doesn't play the game...