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Next economical surprise from NQ? Your bets.


le_souriceau

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0.23 was already beaten from all possible angles. Beyond other things, it showed, that:

 

1) NQ can (and possible will from now on) act more agressivly/risky on existing economics;

2) Pretty high level of collateral damage to existing systems/playerbase accepted.

 

Also there is near future and new updates (for this who still care). At this point I'm quite, to be honest... distrustful toward NQ, expected them to bring more "suprises", that gravitate towards "soft wiping" by devaluation of our existing assets (via bad balance, disign or both).

 

So:

 

1) New money making methods

 

Suprise one. I fear we can not even imagine what this "jobs/methods" will be. Something browrising? Anyway...

 

  • Short term: people will gring like crazy and use this money (in total mockery of JC vision how things supposed to be) to bankroll own private industries.
  • Long term: ore prices probably rise, because less people will be mining and more industries back in action.

 

(Not) suprise two. My bet: at first they do very bad balancing (as always), so initialy jobs will be too profitable or too low paying. 

 

2) Asteroids

 

Here principal question (and suprise) is if they will be in PvP zone. Or not completly (like T1-T2 there and T3-T5 there). Or demand some huge investment (ship equipment). Or how effective it will be towards old planetary mining. All tricky in terms of "soft wiping/blocking out of content" issues. And combo of this how NQ roll it... dangerous.

 

  • If ore (of any tier) is too easy to aquire it will devalue all current stock (hurting players who was in hope to preserve some value in ore, soft-wiping their capitals).
  • If ore is too hard to aquire (seriously PvP/investment or both dependant), it will practicaly "block-wipe" many players from stable aquisiton of more valuable ores in future (under pretext that they need to use market to buy it), mirroring situation with high-end industry. This will produce severe "big org hate" tension, obviously.

 

Overall, considereing JC ideas of how easy mining is and overall trend to force specialization, I expect "hard" version, with huge chunk of players futher locked our economicly. Or not?

 

You thought? Money? Ore? Items? Any ideas what now is good thing to invest to not lose value with new soft-wiping miracles?

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

Any ideas what now is good thing to invest to not lose value with new soft-wiping miracles?

Find another game(s) to play for a few months and check back on DU in half a year. It's what I've decided to do. The current game just isn't worth wasting my time on.

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1 hour ago, le_souriceau said:

Any ideas what now is good thing to invest to not lose value with new soft-wiping miracles?

Not talking about whatever you think about can save you your capital sounds like a good idea.

 

They will probably try to softwipe accumulated wealth, although after the schematic prices have been lowered, the quanta barrier is already pretty low so they don't have "much space".

 

Let's say:

Currently, average Joe can relatively easily gain 2-3m/day by mining 50-100k of hematite and selling to bots. 10 days doing that and playing with voxels from time to time and you have like 20-30mil for schematic to setup an industry. For example warp drive L. If you go for something lower you can start much earlier.

Rich guy has, let's say has 1bil. He gains about 50mil/day from industry/investment (5% overall profit margin from investment is easily doable).

 

So for "soft wipe" in the name of space communism we need to somehow make their income be closer.

The easiest way(given that even this is probably too complex for NQ) is to make a PVE activity that pays out much more than current mine ore -> sell to bots scheme.

 

So in order to "wipe wealth" daily possible reward for "average joe" should rise to at least 20mil (for example by PVE missions?) but that makes the schematics dirt cheap, imagine if any average joe can buy schematics for a warp dive L after just 1 day of casual grind, about 3-4 days for largest dynamic/space core etc. That makes schematics useless in what they were intended to do.

 

How they gonna balance it ? God knows, they will still try and hurt everyone due to being ill-experienced in managing sandbox MMO economy and lose players but let's wait and see I guess.

There will still be crazy rich, in most cases those will be the ones that "for some reason" know exactly what to do before the patch...

 

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IMO NQ does not actually know or understand why the economy is not starting/working. I expect the reasons are exactly where NQ dares not go or act which is the big orgs who have all but excluded themselves from the game as a while and just live inside their own bubble, tending to their own exclusively.

 

With their actions being geared towards solo or small group players using markets which are not fed by the big orgs, NQ pretty much forces players to join existing big orgs as even trying to form a new big org wil not yield much results due to the massive wealth and advantage already built by existing orgs through the by now well known methods which are no longer in place while the yields of those were allowed to stay.

 

There really is only one effective option to resolve this and NQ brought this unto themselves by not using it two days after the pre-beta wipe when they found out about several ways these orgs were taking advantage and having access to warp, AGG and territory scanner used to find and sell T4/5 ore to bots to amass massive wealth and stockpiling assets using that wealth within days from the wipe.

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13 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

IMO NQ does not actually know or understand why the economy is not starting/working. I expect the reasons are exactly where NQ dares not go or act which is the big orgs who have all but excluded themselves from the game as a while and just live inside their own bubble, tending to their own exclusively.

 

With their actions being geared towards solo or small group players using markets which are not fed by the big orgs, NQ pretty much forces players to join existing big orgs as even trying to form a new big org wil not yield much results due to the massive wealth and advantage already built by existing orgs through the by now well known methods which are no longer in place while the yields of those were allowed to stay.

 

There really is only one effective option to resolve this and NQ brought this unto themselves by not using it two days after the pre-beta wipe when they found out about several ways these orgs were taking advantage and having access to warp, AGG and territory scanner used to find and sell T4/5 ore to bots to amass massive wealth and stockpiling assets using that wealth within days from the wipe.

From what I hear they were all cut to like 50mil per account, rest was evaporated. (I didn't play then so don't know).

 

Economy not starting up ? You mean the one that has it's production costs altered by 1100% every other day ? No wonder.

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I think the biggest economic surprise would be for them simply to stick to the entire point of the patch and not basic roll the whole thing back with dropping the schem prices through the floor and removing element damage. All this entire 0.23 experience has taught the player base is that if they cry loud enough NQ will make the game 'easier'. 

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3 minutes ago, Xennial said:

I think the biggest economic surprise would be for them simply to stick to the entire point of the patch and not basic roll the whole thing back with dropping the schem prices through the floor and removing element damage. All this entire 0.23 experience has taught the player base is that if they cry loud enough NQ will make the game 'easier'. 

The current schem prices should have been about 2x more at least. The first iteration prices were way too high imho (if you plan to get your investment back in 6 months, price of ore is irrelevant to the price of schems)

The cry part, yea, "we heared you - all our vision is wrong" approach shows incompetence and makes you wonder like what's gonna be next. Remove PVP completely and continue advertising game as space PVP game?

BTW, they didn't remove element damage in crashes(yet).

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29 minutes ago, XKentX said:

The current schem prices should have been about 2x more at least. The first iteration prices were way too high imho (if you plan to get your investment back in 6 months, price of ore is irrelevant to the price of schems)

The cry part, yea, "we heared you - all our vision is wrong" approach shows incompetence and makes you wonder like what's gonna be next. Remove PVP completely and continue advertising game as space PVP game?

BTW, they didn't remove element damage in crashes(yet).

Not yet but the fact that they even are shows to me complete panic on their part. They would do themselves a service to do a little more "well it's beta guys , bugs will happen but we press on!" and little less "we are soooo sorry for making you work for anything, and we deeply apologize for you using a ship that is WAY bigger then your means to maintain it, lets just make that invincible for your".

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56 minutes ago, XKentX said:

From what I hear they were all cut to like 50mil per account, rest was evaporated. (I didn't play then so don't know).

Yes, but most players who were involved in this see it coming and invested quick money into valuable assets, or splitted money between alts/friends, so neglegable ammount of money was actualy lost/wiped with this mostly decorative action of NQ.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

Yes, but most players who were involved in this see it coming and invested quick money into valuable assets, or splitted money between alts/friends, so neglegable ammount of money was actualy lost/wiped with this mostly decorative action of NQ.

 

 

Yea, could have guessed that.

NQ being NQ.

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1 hour ago, XKentX said:

From what I hear they were all cut to like 50mil per account, rest was evaporated. (I didn't play then so don't know).

 

By that time the warehouses were already stocked with warp drives, AGG, Territory units and scanners which were left untouched and were all put to good use..

 

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54 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

By that time the warehouses were already stocked with warp drives, AGG, Territory units and scanners which were left untouched and were all put to good use..

 

But that didn't came from quanta bots did it ?

Like, they had 1 week headstart, they could stockpile stuff etc that's the point of headstart. The problem is that they stockpiled quanta using t5 ore bots.

I had 3 day headstart when I started Albion Online. Those 3 days made me not care about the money for the rest of my 2 years play time.

 

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@le_souriceau

Next big thing ? fiddy cents on this :)

QUests/Missions:

-> Find a meganode of Quartz on Lacobus, mine it and deliver the ore to Aphelia on Feli. Receive 50 :quanta: per liter!
-> Meet Aphelia on Feli. My uncle is sick and his atmo engines factory is out of coal. Go mine 100k ore and deliver it to me. Receive 110% T1 bots value :)

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7 hours ago, XKentX said:

But that didn't came from quanta bots did it ?

Like, they had 1 week headstart, they could stockpile stuff etc that's the point of headstart. The problem is that they stockpiled quanta using t5 ore bots.

I had 3 day headstart when I started Albion Online. Those 3 days made me not care about the money for the rest of my 2 years play time.

 

 

7 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

I can't unfortunately go into detail because of [NDA].

 

At this point the NDA is a mood point as we are already talking about it, so here it is.

NQ didn’t listen when people told them to remove the bot orders from the get go, they left them on soft beta release. This in conjunction with leaked information on the location of wrecks (very unbalanced and unfair) and leaked information to a selected few on other matters, including but not limited to ore locations and prices, lead to an unprecedented rush that made a few people extremely wealthy by day 2 of soft release. Now, NQ claimed that some of us where exaggerating the amount of wealth and made a vague statement claiming it wasn’t much and everyone was going to be reset to 50 million. What NQ didn’t say was that they only accounted for the Quantas and not the assets (and that I can prove, as my assets weren’t touch), couple with, yet again, more leaked information to a selected few, made some stack up on billions of hard assets by day 4-5. So they took the money sure.....they didn’t touch the assets, meaning some had enough factories, equipment and everything you can think off to play the rest of their lives without a care. Add that money was also moved prior to the cap to alts and players (50 million a piece), and some people having 6-10 alts, well, you do the math.

 

Now, with that say, I could care less about the above statement and if I can say it or not, at this point it doesn’t matter cause NQ can’t penalized me for breaking anything when they are completely back peddling themselves. So, consider this my last meal before I jump ship for better seas.

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Next economical surprise from NQ? Your bets.

Hmm .. ok I will bit.

 

My bet goes to 'energy based on territory' - but first let all people put their money into schematics and rebuild the industry.

 

Then introduce a system where energy is needed for the industry. Make it challenging they will say. Fist, chances are, your current territory is on a low energy tile - well, lets settle somewhere else then! Hmm .. nope to easy. Industry needs PVP (we all know this!) so lets have the 'safe zone' only spawn low energy profile territories. You want to be one of the 10%? Go to the outer planets with your industry - imagine all the possibilities here. 

 

Ofc - this is only the backbone here. The real implementation will be well thought trough - a little bit like the market UI. One is for sure there will be math involved - like the schematics formula. A 'round carpet' maker should work for his elitist profession - maybe he should produce 'large antenna L' the schematics prices are reasonable for this formula so why not for the energy use it as well.

 

 

.. I think we will see.

 

  

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On 12/21/2020 at 5:01 PM, Iorail said:

 

At this point the NDA is a mood point as we are already talking about it, so here it is.

NQ didn’t listen when people told them to remove the bot orders from the get go, they left them on soft beta release. This in conjunction with leaked information on the location of wrecks (very unbalanced and unfair) and leaked information to a selected few on other matters, including but not limited to ore locations and prices, lead to an unprecedented rush that made a few people extremely wealthy by day 2 of soft release. Now, NQ claimed that some of us where exaggerating the amount of wealth and made a vague statement claiming it wasn’t much and everyone was going to be reset to 50 million. What NQ didn’t say was that they only accounted for the Quantas and not the assets (and that I can prove, as my assets weren’t touch), couple with, yet again, more leaked information to a selected few, made some stack up on billions of hard assets by day 4-5. So they took the money sure.....they didn’t touch the assets, meaning some had enough factories, equipment and everything you can think off to play the rest of their lives without a care. Add that money was also moved prior to the cap to alts and players (50 million a piece), and some people having 6-10 alts, well, you do the math.

 

Now, with that say, I could care less about the above statement and if I can say it or not, at this point it doesn’t matter cause NQ can’t penalized me for breaking anything when they are completely back peddling themselves. So, consider this my last meal before I jump ship for better seas.

Quoting to save. What a gigantic %$*#up on NQ's part. We need transparency on this and a public NQ announcement admitting fault and poor judgement. @NQ-Naunet Could we get a word, please? This is obviously still affecting the ingame economy even ~4 months later.

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15 hours ago, Emptiness said:

Quoting to save. What a gigantic %$*#up on NQ's part. We need transparency on this and a public NQ announcement admitting fault and poor judgement. @NQ-Naunet Could we get a word, please? This is obviously still affecting the ingame economy even ~4 months later.

It's a huge mess up on NQ's part, because schematic prices are based on those player's wallets.   Over what a normal person would be expected to work up.

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12 hours ago, Casegard said:

Hmm .. nope to easy. Industry needs PVP (we all know this!) so lets have the 'safe zone' only spawn low energy profile territories.  

Also, if territories in SZ have randomized energy efficiency, then it will be mad rush for rescan empty ones and grab most valuable ones...

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13 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

Yeah but for those of us who know what it's like to flush the toilet on a speeding train... just imagine what it's like to flush a space toilet ?

For those who remembers what was like to shoot a missile from a moving ship in the early space engineers (for those who don't, the missile would instantly collide with your ship)... imagine being killed by your own crap :v

 

 

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