vylqun

Regardless, by now there is a well known loop that happens with NQ and the community.
 
NQ; We are very excited and have this cool new feature that nobody really asked for, ready to be tested on PTC!
Community: Man, this is rough. So many bugs, and this will cause lots of balance issues.
NQ: Great feedback! It is nice to hear that you are all as excited as we are!
Community: Erhh. The bugs and balance issues?
NQ: Rejoice! After a week of limited PTC availability and no changes we are now pushing the new feature live! Everybody not chased away by this patch can now look forwards to our next surprise in about 6 months time!

So, as predicted T2 and some T3 prices are often below T1 bot prices by now, which makes those hexes very unprofitable, considering that you can often claim 500 ore/h T1 hexes, but nothing like that for T3+ and in most cases you rarely have a T1 above 100 as secondary ore on them. 
NQ said they watch marketprices and will act accordingly. The time to act is now! Either lower hex taxes, or introduce buy bots for T2+ at logical higher price levels than T1, else no one will be able to afford keeping those T2+ hexes, because they just cost more than you can earn with them even if you keep nothing for your own use (or alternatively add buy bots for finished products).
 
DU isn't remotely close to a playerbase where there is any ore scarcity with the currently available mining hexes which would drive the prices up!
(and please, i dont want to hear anything like "players aren't supposed to own more than 1 or 2 T2+mining hexes" or any of that, because without mining there is barely any gameplay left that is directly supported by the games systems)

So, as predicted T2 and some T3 prices are often below T1 bot prices by now, which makes those hexes very unprofitable, considering that you can often claim 500 ore/h T1 hexes, but nothing like that for T3+ and in most cases you rarely have a T1 above 100 as secondary ore on them. 
NQ said they watch marketprices and will act accordingly. The time to act is now! Either lower hex taxes, or introduce buy bots for T2+ at logical higher price levels than T1, else no one will be able to afford keeping those T2+ hexes, because they just cost more than you can earn with them even if you keep nothing for your own use (or alternatively add buy bots for finished products).
 
DU isn't remotely close to a playerbase where there is any ore scarcity with the currently available mining hexes which would drive the prices up!
(and please, i dont want to hear anything like "players aren't supposed to own more than 1 or 2 T2+mining hexes" or any of that, because without mining there is barely any gameplay left that is directly supported by the games systems)

So, as predicted T2 and some T3 prices are often below T1 bot prices by now, which makes those hexes very unprofitable, considering that you can often claim 500 ore/h T1 hexes, but nothing like that for T3+ and in most cases you rarely have a T1 above 100 as secondary ore on them. 
NQ said they watch marketprices and will act accordingly. The time to act is now! Either lower hex taxes, or introduce buy bots for T2+ at logical higher price levels than T1, else no one will be able to afford keeping those T2+ hexes, because they just cost more than you can earn with them even if you keep nothing for your own use (or alternatively add buy bots for finished products).
 
DU isn't remotely close to a playerbase where there is any ore scarcity with the currently available mining hexes which would drive the prices up!
(and please, i dont want to hear anything like "players aren't supposed to own more than 1 or 2 T2+mining hexes" or any of that, because without mining there is barely any gameplay left that is directly supported by the games systems)

So, as predicted T2 and some T3 prices are often below T1 bot prices by now, which makes those hexes very unprofitable, considering that you can often claim 500 ore/h T1 hexes, but nothing like that for T3+ and in most cases you rarely have a T1 above 100 as secondary ore on them. 
NQ said they watch marketprices and will act accordingly. The time to act is now! Either lower hex taxes, or introduce buy bots for T2+ at logical higher price levels than T1, else no one will be able to afford keeping those T2+ hexes, because they just cost more than you can earn with them even if you keep nothing for your own use (or alternatively add buy bots for finished products).
 
DU isn't remotely close to a playerbase where there is any ore scarcity with the currently available mining hexes which would drive the prices up!
(and please, i dont want to hear anything like "players aren't supposed to own more than 1 or 2 T2+mining hexes" or any of that, because without mining there is barely any gameplay left that is directly supported by the games systems)

It depends. For people who arent active anymore, the racing league can "just" claim their hexes and shoulder the taxes (if they are willing to pay out of the pocket) For those with still active users... i personally own one race track that crosses 6 hexes. I did plan to build a second one before the demeter update was announced, but now certainly wont do it, as i'm neither willing nor able to pay 6mio+ per week for something that gives no income. I know there are some race centers that use way more hexes, and all of this has to be paid. My rough (and probably wrong) estimate is, that all current tracks in the racing league summed up have 70+ hexes, which is a looot of taxes.
Now some people would probably argue, that the useage of the tracks could be monetized, but that only works if a sport has paying audience, and i have yet to meet anyone who is willing to "see" people race in DU. In addition to the high probability, that the majority of those hexes have crappy ore pools, it just kills the future prospects of the racing league and is a very limiting factor to future expansion.
 
 
 
An very idealistic and at the same time unrealistic view. The amount of players who can and are willing to pay for RP is abysmal small. 

The current max chunk complexity is simply to low, even a simple office building with a few rooms without any furniture is already near the limit. Its not possible to put some color in the rooms or voxelfurniture because it would go above 100%
Increase the maximum by 20% or so, that's all i ask for. Don't artificially limit the creativity of your builders!

NQ doesn't care about the players tho, so why bother talking to us?

So a few questions here:
 
1. There are exactly two quanta faucets in the game, a constant one, 150k per day and player, as well as a farmable one, the mission system. With the newly introduced sink in form of taxes, which require 1million per week and active hex, a single player can support exactly one workable hex (mining, industry, dispensers etc.) without having leftover quanta to buy items.
If we asume that every player has at least one active hex, while most will have more than that, the mission system is required to provide enough quanta for the system to offset those taxes, else we will face a serious deflation with ore values dropping below tax-sustainable prices. 
How does NQ intend to fix the alt abuse of the mission system while maintaining the ability to earn enough quanta to support those taxes? (while answering please keep in mind, that many players only have a few hours per week and can't really run many missions)
 
2. From my preliminary scanning of, effectively, 1/6th of Symeon, i can tell that there are very few T4 nodes across the planet. Most of the good spots either are already taken, or will be taken within the next week. How does NQ plan to have new players participate in the mining system if there are no really good spots left? Will T4/T5 be considered a strategic ressource that only guilds and a few veteran players have access to?
 
3. Territory scanners require T2 ores. Is that intended? Without scanners we can't effectively search for hexes with good ore yield, especially if there might be a (partial) wipe in the future, acquiring hexes to min T2 would depend either on luck or on hours of picking T2 rocks from Sanctuary before you're able to build a scanner line and a few finished products.
 
4. Currently there are quute a few hexes bugged for several days already, that means, the ore pool that should be (for example) 140/h is only 40/h without anyone mining. As this directly impacts the ability of the players to generate income thats needed to pay taxes, is there any plan to delay the first tax payment or any other compensation that would player with those hexes allow to pay their taxes?
 
5. I think i speak for everyone when i say ppl imagined the asteroid system to be something different than "at a set time and day some asteroids will spawn". With the very limited amount of ore a player (especially new ones without access to many hexes with MU) do you plan to randomize the asteroid spawn, so new asteroids can be found and mined every day during the week?

maybe, just maybe, this is because players are now required to pay taxes?
I'm one of those builders who were scanning, selling and buying the past 2 weeks, even tho i normally wouldnt do this, and this is simply because i have more than 5 hexes where i built purely non-functional stuff and need to finance it. But whenever i said, that those taxes will kill large projects everyone only answered "but you have 5 HQ hexes, learn how to make quanta"
But at least i have found another quanta faucet now, getting stuff from the ppl i played with a lot and who left over the past 2 weeks.

maybe, just maybe, this is because players are now required to pay taxes?
I'm one of those builders who were scanning, selling and buying the past 2 weeks, even tho i normally wouldnt do this, and this is simply because i have more than 5 hexes where i built purely non-functional stuff and need to finance it. But whenever i said, that those taxes will kill large projects everyone only answered "but you have 5 HQ hexes, learn how to make quanta"
But at least i have found another quanta faucet now, getting stuff from the ppl i played with a lot and who left over the past 2 weeks.

its nice to discuss problems with other players and think about solutions, sadly NQ doesnt really care, so in the end its futile effort. Demter is nearly 100% a cost-reducing patch, and thats something where they wont compromise.

Update: So I did the things recommended....

- HQ'ed tiles I wanted to keep
- Moved to Space
- Tried going back to Sanctuary.
- Reduced My Expectations
- Even used a Beta Key to try restarting new...

I can no longer enjoy this game in the current state. There are jobs I have hated that were more exciting then the daily logins to Nanny your Mining Unit. Until the developers change the Mining Units or implement a new way to progress in the game there is no point in playing. I gave this update a try, I took all of the advice, and the progression rate which was already abysmal is now unbearable.

I love this community and the people in it, even those I disagree and fight with but I just can't DU it any longer. Not until they fix things, which is unlikely, cause they don't care if players leave.
 
Original Post:
I will be taking an extended and potentially permanent break from DU.
If you see me log in, it will be to kick (calibrate) mining units, post a haul mission, and sell things so I don't lose tiles. 

It is clear the developers don't respect the players or their time, and if the tax situation doesn't get fixed with the falling ore prices, no point in owning tiles to earn a little more than break even.

Also Sanctuary sucks...

( will be placing everything of value on HQ tiles to ensure no one scalps my stuff.)

maybe, just maybe, this is because players are now required to pay taxes?
I'm one of those builders who were scanning, selling and buying the past 2 weeks, even tho i normally wouldnt do this, and this is simply because i have more than 5 hexes where i built purely non-functional stuff and need to finance it. But whenever i said, that those taxes will kill large projects everyone only answered "but you have 5 HQ hexes, learn how to make quanta"
But at least i have found another quanta faucet now, getting stuff from the ppl i played with a lot and who left over the past 2 weeks.

maybe, just maybe, this is because players are now required to pay taxes?
I'm one of those builders who were scanning, selling and buying the past 2 weeks, even tho i normally wouldnt do this, and this is simply because i have more than 5 hexes where i built purely non-functional stuff and need to finance it. But whenever i said, that those taxes will kill large projects everyone only answered "but you have 5 HQ hexes, learn how to make quanta"
But at least i have found another quanta faucet now, getting stuff from the ppl i played with a lot and who left over the past 2 weeks.

I love how when I protested Dementor update people claimed I was just being a problem by not adapting. So then I adapt and then I am part of the problem for playing into NQ's hands. Seemingly lose/lose with people. They are angry when you have something, poke fun at you when you don't, cheezus... ?

It's not really a crash because the prices were briefly inflated, it's more like a correction. But I think we do need more element destruction (when crashing), maybe even durability on some active elements like industry units.
 
They can't and won't bring back the old ore mining underground, they said it was not sustainable. Move to space and mine asteroids if you must.

Ok , and what is the purpose of spiffy looking mining rig 'builds'? The answer is nothing, a flat platform with holes is all thats needed. They are just going to be scattered around so the surface of planets look like they have freckles. It's not like your really going to be motivated to spend $ on some 'nice' looking mining platform just to have it off in the wilderness where no one goes.
 
If you fixate the game from your "my 5 HQ squatter solo tiles" is all the territory anyone should ever want or need then your playing a different game then I am.
 
Territory hard limits? roflmao , there are not enough players to make use of 1 planet in this game never mind the ocean of useless territory out there.
 
Yes, there will always be some creative builders out there that get all excited about making some shinny new 'art' in DU, thats part of the games appeal. 95% of what they make has zero practical purpose in game.
 
This update is going to destroy a lot of the bigger org construction projects that existed in the game and disillusion the people that spent those countless hours you mention to fill large cores with builds. I myself was one of them. I am glad that you are happy building whatever you build in DU, good on ya. Most builders I have known in game barely participate in the game outside of using it as some game form of Blender. That group will not sustain the game. 

Feedback is simple, your update is poorly thought out. I'm not sure what the dev meetings must be like over there at NQ but let me make this KISS for you folks:
 
Currently:
 
Zero reason to build anything period outside of a ship. Especially now with your well thought out brutal tax on any grand building ideas creatives might have ever had for POI's. 
PvP that most hate and even the PvP'ers have to admit sucks in it's implementation, never mind completely broken risk vs reward balance
Player based economy is a joke with your constant meddling with bots & refusal to let players setup markets
Industrial gameplay that was put out of reach of all but groups or highly dedicated no lifers with endless time on their hands
Gigantic game world that is so sparsely populated deserts in the real world seem to team with life by comparison
Asteroid mechanics that defy game design logic in their implementation (I mean really is it THAT hard for you to spawn roids randomly and continually like literally every space game with mining ... ever?)
Completely broken organization tools that make managing any group harder not easier. 
Mission system that could have be automatic and really helped the game world when it comes to posting / payouts , instead is a hot mess of must be present hand shaking nonsense. 
 
I could go on honestly, but EVERY single time you people do an update you overcomplicate everything and make it a nightmarish chore, rather then simply go "here are auto miners, enjoy". Asteroids same darn thing, couldn't just create a asteroid belt in the game and have rocks spawn randomly for period of time, part in the safe zone part out? OH NO , you had to make even something simple like digging a rock the most arse backwards design of all time. 
 
*sighs* I am not sure what your grand vision for DU is anymore , but it certainly does not contain the word 'fun' for most people. Every update makes the game more grindy, more work, less reward. The only joy people seem to have anymore is sitting in Discord / Forums talking about game theory of what DU might have been if it wasn't what it is.
 

Yes, but he needs to scan for ores first - just to find out that all valuable T2+ tiles are already taken.

Game will stabilize, (as it always does), after a patch.
 
The problem is that everyone will try to sell ore because it's the simplest way to earn.  That and missions.   Every other means of making cash requires an investment into industry which for the new player or the casual builder is going to be an issue.
 
I suppose it will hit the "I just wanted to build" element of the player base hard who have now been told to grind before that can happen.

So a few questions here:
 
1. There are exactly two quanta faucets in the game, a constant one, 150k per day and player, as well as a farmable one, the mission system. With the newly introduced sink in form of taxes, which require 1million per week and active hex, a single player can support exactly one workable hex (mining, industry, dispensers etc.) without having leftover quanta to buy items.
If we asume that every player has at least one active hex, while most will have more than that, the mission system is required to provide enough quanta for the system to offset those taxes, else we will face a serious deflation with ore values dropping below tax-sustainable prices. 
How does NQ intend to fix the alt abuse of the mission system while maintaining the ability to earn enough quanta to support those taxes? (while answering please keep in mind, that many players only have a few hours per week and can't really run many missions)
 
2. From my preliminary scanning of, effectively, 1/6th of Symeon, i can tell that there are very few T4 nodes across the planet. Most of the good spots either are already taken, or will be taken within the next week. How does NQ plan to have new players participate in the mining system if there are no really good spots left? Will T4/T5 be considered a strategic ressource that only guilds and a few veteran players have access to?
 
3. Territory scanners require T2 ores. Is that intended? Without scanners we can't effectively search for hexes with good ore yield, especially if there might be a (partial) wipe in the future, acquiring hexes to min T2 would depend either on luck or on hours of picking T2 rocks from Sanctuary before you're able to build a scanner line and a few finished products.
 
4. Currently there are quute a few hexes bugged for several days already, that means, the ore pool that should be (for example) 140/h is only 40/h without anyone mining. As this directly impacts the ability of the players to generate income thats needed to pay taxes, is there any plan to delay the first tax payment or any other compensation that would player with those hexes allow to pay their taxes?
 
5. I think i speak for everyone when i say ppl imagined the asteroid system to be something different than "at a set time and day some asteroids will spawn". With the very limited amount of ore a player (especially new ones without access to many hexes with MU) do you plan to randomize the asteroid spawn, so new asteroids can be found and mined every day during the week?

So a few questions here:
 
1. There are exactly two quanta faucets in the game, a constant one, 150k per day and player, as well as a farmable one, the mission system. With the newly introduced sink in form of taxes, which require 1million per week and active hex, a single player can support exactly one workable hex (mining, industry, dispensers etc.) without having leftover quanta to buy items.
If we asume that every player has at least one active hex, while most will have more than that, the mission system is required to provide enough quanta for the system to offset those taxes, else we will face a serious deflation with ore values dropping below tax-sustainable prices. 
How does NQ intend to fix the alt abuse of the mission system while maintaining the ability to earn enough quanta to support those taxes? (while answering please keep in mind, that many players only have a few hours per week and can't really run many missions)
 
2. From my preliminary scanning of, effectively, 1/6th of Symeon, i can tell that there are very few T4 nodes across the planet. Most of the good spots either are already taken, or will be taken within the next week. How does NQ plan to have new players participate in the mining system if there are no really good spots left? Will T4/T5 be considered a strategic ressource that only guilds and a few veteran players have access to?
 
3. Territory scanners require T2 ores. Is that intended? Without scanners we can't effectively search for hexes with good ore yield, especially if there might be a (partial) wipe in the future, acquiring hexes to min T2 would depend either on luck or on hours of picking T2 rocks from Sanctuary before you're able to build a scanner line and a few finished products.
 
4. Currently there are quute a few hexes bugged for several days already, that means, the ore pool that should be (for example) 140/h is only 40/h without anyone mining. As this directly impacts the ability of the players to generate income thats needed to pay taxes, is there any plan to delay the first tax payment or any other compensation that would player with those hexes allow to pay their taxes?
 
5. I think i speak for everyone when i say ppl imagined the asteroid system to be something different than "at a set time and day some asteroids will spawn". With the very limited amount of ore a player (especially new ones without access to many hexes with MU) do you plan to randomize the asteroid spawn, so new asteroids can be found and mined every day during the week?

I am PISSED!! After you announced that old scans will carry over i wasted a week scanning hundreds of tiles to have a good spot after Demeter, and now you say all this time, that i only spent on scanning because NQ announced it would be valid, was a huge waste of my few hours of spare time after work? Thats absolutely BS! At least set a cut off date that the scans after you made that announcement are still valid, take some responsibility for your damn announcements!

- save the exploited money
- once the game launches buy DACs with that money
- use those DACs and get lots of months of gametime
- exploit the system further to self sustain these accs with little to no effort
- profit