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vylqun

Alpha Team Vanguard
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  1. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from TheEliteJK in Realistic incentives for City building   
    To have a somewhat imersive experience in Dual Universe we definitely need to see cities. But why exactly would people create cities in DU if just use a vast amount of resources without any real benefit except for showing off?
     
    Normally city planning depends on  a lot of different factors, like the environment, available resources, especially food, the condition of the ground, expected industries etc. Those are mostly things that wont work in DU. On the other hand, building cities in DU has quite a lot of disadvantages, like being target for raiders, warmongers or just griefplayers. So without any real benefit or need to create cities we will at most have very few large organization building and maintaining a city as HQ and maybe one or two trading hubs. Mostly we'll see well hidden factories and bases which are statistically placed across the planets with nearly no clustering.
     
    There are two possible ways to facilitate cities. One is giving artificial benefits like production bonus or similar things, i wont advocate that as it is unrealistic and just shows a lack of creativity in the game design. The second way is giving realistic incentives. The only incentives that work on larger scales in a mmorpg are economic or security benefits or needs. Social or educational facilities can be mostly ignored (there could be University-Type elements that increase the speed of accumulating xp for the first 20% or something of the skilltree, with which organizations can cater to new players, but that wont be a real incentive for creating a city).
     
    In my mind there are three mechanics which would directly create the need for clustering buildings on a small area:
     
    1. Powergrid
    The first suggestion is, that all functional elements (Doors, electronics etc.) require electricity. Standard, small sized elements would need a marginal amount of power so, that a small generator that can easily be installed in every ship/building is sufficient to support them. More advanced facilities like factories, Elements with strong supporting effects (something like the University for example, or greenhouses), military elements (planetary turrets, shields, sensor units ...) however should have an exponential increase of the power required. Factory units for example should require enough power, that no stacking of small generators can support them.
    To support those power hungry elements players can build power plant elements which are extremely large on scale, like 64³m³. They would support buildings within a certain radius with a set amount of power and to increase that radius you could create power-relay stations. What does this do for city building? If players want to run a factory or other facilities they need to create a power plant. If a single power plant generates enough electricity to support several factories, then the economic way of action would be creating enough factories within the vicinity of a power plant to  effectively use the generated power. A large cluster of factories in turn needs military protection as it is a nice target for raiders, thus we have some kind of city growth. At the same time owners of those power plants could rent space in the effective radius for players which can afford to create a factory, but not the required power plant.
     
    This can be extended to every kind of large scale element which would be nice to have in a city, for example if we want a space port in the city. The simplest way would be to just create some flat areas for ships to land on. But what about quality of life services like refuelling or rearing constructs? Those actions can take ages. If we had large scale elements like a repair Dock, which repairs damaged ships in the vicinity if activated or refuelling stations, those can save a lot of time to players. Elements like that would also require a lot of power, thus the need for a power plant in the vicinity.
     
    In short, if every advanced element has a big size and a large power requirement, coupled with the need of power plants, we would by default see clusters of buildings which can be called cities.
     
    2. Resources
    We can see in some videos how the ground is removed with a tool, its fast, efficient and effortless. if we can mine resources in this way, then DU players will be like a big locust swarm, run across the surface of a planet, scanning and within hours mining all interesting resources. But a big influence on city-building is the need to create a permanent structure in specific places, thus mining resources should definitely not be near-instant. Optimally mining out a big underground ore vein should take years if done by hand or several months when done with elements for mining. If we have long term mining then locations get a certain economic and strategic importance. If an organization finds a large vein of a rare metal it can't just mine it and go away, it has to defend this place against other players. Thus they need to create defensive structures, which again need power plants. If you have defensive structures and power plants on a mining base and some power surplus due to it then its economic to just continue and create the needed refinery elements etc. too, which in turn leads to clusters of buildings again.
     
    3. Dependencies
    Similar as all functional elements require electricity there can be other dependencies which make it necessary to create several constructs at the same place. In the new content update we learn about market Bots, where resources can be sold for quanta and elements can be bought (probably very limited after crafting is implemented, but maybe some of the most basic elements can still be bought). Those Quanta and elements aren't created from void and the sold resources can't spontaneously vanish. So if someone wants to place market bots in his base, it would make sense to require a trading hub element in the vicinity. There are quite some heavy industries which are dependent on water as coolant, so some refinery elements could actually need water purification plants in the area, the same plants could be used to support greenhouses or other buildings with water. If several buildings depend on each other there is a huge potential to incline people to gather together and create cities. Especially as everyone has a limited amount of cores available.
     
    ########
     
    I really think that those three points are absolutely necessary for a good experience in DU and will lead to some pretty interesting results.
  2. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Firestorm in Realistic incentives for City building   
    To have a somewhat imersive experience in Dual Universe we definitely need to see cities. But why exactly would people create cities in DU if just use a vast amount of resources without any real benefit except for showing off?
     
    Normally city planning depends on  a lot of different factors, like the environment, available resources, especially food, the condition of the ground, expected industries etc. Those are mostly things that wont work in DU. On the other hand, building cities in DU has quite a lot of disadvantages, like being target for raiders, warmongers or just griefplayers. So without any real benefit or need to create cities we will at most have very few large organization building and maintaining a city as HQ and maybe one or two trading hubs. Mostly we'll see well hidden factories and bases which are statistically placed across the planets with nearly no clustering.
     
    There are two possible ways to facilitate cities. One is giving artificial benefits like production bonus or similar things, i wont advocate that as it is unrealistic and just shows a lack of creativity in the game design. The second way is giving realistic incentives. The only incentives that work on larger scales in a mmorpg are economic or security benefits or needs. Social or educational facilities can be mostly ignored (there could be University-Type elements that increase the speed of accumulating xp for the first 20% or something of the skilltree, with which organizations can cater to new players, but that wont be a real incentive for creating a city).
     
    In my mind there are three mechanics which would directly create the need for clustering buildings on a small area:
     
    1. Powergrid
    The first suggestion is, that all functional elements (Doors, electronics etc.) require electricity. Standard, small sized elements would need a marginal amount of power so, that a small generator that can easily be installed in every ship/building is sufficient to support them. More advanced facilities like factories, Elements with strong supporting effects (something like the University for example, or greenhouses), military elements (planetary turrets, shields, sensor units ...) however should have an exponential increase of the power required. Factory units for example should require enough power, that no stacking of small generators can support them.
    To support those power hungry elements players can build power plant elements which are extremely large on scale, like 64³m³. They would support buildings within a certain radius with a set amount of power and to increase that radius you could create power-relay stations. What does this do for city building? If players want to run a factory or other facilities they need to create a power plant. If a single power plant generates enough electricity to support several factories, then the economic way of action would be creating enough factories within the vicinity of a power plant to  effectively use the generated power. A large cluster of factories in turn needs military protection as it is a nice target for raiders, thus we have some kind of city growth. At the same time owners of those power plants could rent space in the effective radius for players which can afford to create a factory, but not the required power plant.
     
    This can be extended to every kind of large scale element which would be nice to have in a city, for example if we want a space port in the city. The simplest way would be to just create some flat areas for ships to land on. But what about quality of life services like refuelling or rearing constructs? Those actions can take ages. If we had large scale elements like a repair Dock, which repairs damaged ships in the vicinity if activated or refuelling stations, those can save a lot of time to players. Elements like that would also require a lot of power, thus the need for a power plant in the vicinity.
     
    In short, if every advanced element has a big size and a large power requirement, coupled with the need of power plants, we would by default see clusters of buildings which can be called cities.
     
    2. Resources
    We can see in some videos how the ground is removed with a tool, its fast, efficient and effortless. if we can mine resources in this way, then DU players will be like a big locust swarm, run across the surface of a planet, scanning and within hours mining all interesting resources. But a big influence on city-building is the need to create a permanent structure in specific places, thus mining resources should definitely not be near-instant. Optimally mining out a big underground ore vein should take years if done by hand or several months when done with elements for mining. If we have long term mining then locations get a certain economic and strategic importance. If an organization finds a large vein of a rare metal it can't just mine it and go away, it has to defend this place against other players. Thus they need to create defensive structures, which again need power plants. If you have defensive structures and power plants on a mining base and some power surplus due to it then its economic to just continue and create the needed refinery elements etc. too, which in turn leads to clusters of buildings again.
     
    3. Dependencies
    Similar as all functional elements require electricity there can be other dependencies which make it necessary to create several constructs at the same place. In the new content update we learn about market Bots, where resources can be sold for quanta and elements can be bought (probably very limited after crafting is implemented, but maybe some of the most basic elements can still be bought). Those Quanta and elements aren't created from void and the sold resources can't spontaneously vanish. So if someone wants to place market bots in his base, it would make sense to require a trading hub element in the vicinity. There are quite some heavy industries which are dependent on water as coolant, so some refinery elements could actually need water purification plants in the area, the same plants could be used to support greenhouses or other buildings with water. If several buildings depend on each other there is a huge potential to incline people to gather together and create cities. Especially as everyone has a limited amount of cores available.
     
    ########
     
    I really think that those three points are absolutely necessary for a good experience in DU and will lead to some pretty interesting results.
  3. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from FireSoul in Realistic incentives for City building   
    To have a somewhat imersive experience in Dual Universe we definitely need to see cities. But why exactly would people create cities in DU if just use a vast amount of resources without any real benefit except for showing off?
     
    Normally city planning depends on  a lot of different factors, like the environment, available resources, especially food, the condition of the ground, expected industries etc. Those are mostly things that wont work in DU. On the other hand, building cities in DU has quite a lot of disadvantages, like being target for raiders, warmongers or just griefplayers. So without any real benefit or need to create cities we will at most have very few large organization building and maintaining a city as HQ and maybe one or two trading hubs. Mostly we'll see well hidden factories and bases which are statistically placed across the planets with nearly no clustering.
     
    There are two possible ways to facilitate cities. One is giving artificial benefits like production bonus or similar things, i wont advocate that as it is unrealistic and just shows a lack of creativity in the game design. The second way is giving realistic incentives. The only incentives that work on larger scales in a mmorpg are economic or security benefits or needs. Social or educational facilities can be mostly ignored (there could be University-Type elements that increase the speed of accumulating xp for the first 20% or something of the skilltree, with which organizations can cater to new players, but that wont be a real incentive for creating a city).
     
    In my mind there are three mechanics which would directly create the need for clustering buildings on a small area:
     
    1. Powergrid
    The first suggestion is, that all functional elements (Doors, electronics etc.) require electricity. Standard, small sized elements would need a marginal amount of power so, that a small generator that can easily be installed in every ship/building is sufficient to support them. More advanced facilities like factories, Elements with strong supporting effects (something like the University for example, or greenhouses), military elements (planetary turrets, shields, sensor units ...) however should have an exponential increase of the power required. Factory units for example should require enough power, that no stacking of small generators can support them.
    To support those power hungry elements players can build power plant elements which are extremely large on scale, like 64³m³. They would support buildings within a certain radius with a set amount of power and to increase that radius you could create power-relay stations. What does this do for city building? If players want to run a factory or other facilities they need to create a power plant. If a single power plant generates enough electricity to support several factories, then the economic way of action would be creating enough factories within the vicinity of a power plant to  effectively use the generated power. A large cluster of factories in turn needs military protection as it is a nice target for raiders, thus we have some kind of city growth. At the same time owners of those power plants could rent space in the effective radius for players which can afford to create a factory, but not the required power plant.
     
    This can be extended to every kind of large scale element which would be nice to have in a city, for example if we want a space port in the city. The simplest way would be to just create some flat areas for ships to land on. But what about quality of life services like refuelling or rearing constructs? Those actions can take ages. If we had large scale elements like a repair Dock, which repairs damaged ships in the vicinity if activated or refuelling stations, those can save a lot of time to players. Elements like that would also require a lot of power, thus the need for a power plant in the vicinity.
     
    In short, if every advanced element has a big size and a large power requirement, coupled with the need of power plants, we would by default see clusters of buildings which can be called cities.
     
    2. Resources
    We can see in some videos how the ground is removed with a tool, its fast, efficient and effortless. if we can mine resources in this way, then DU players will be like a big locust swarm, run across the surface of a planet, scanning and within hours mining all interesting resources. But a big influence on city-building is the need to create a permanent structure in specific places, thus mining resources should definitely not be near-instant. Optimally mining out a big underground ore vein should take years if done by hand or several months when done with elements for mining. If we have long term mining then locations get a certain economic and strategic importance. If an organization finds a large vein of a rare metal it can't just mine it and go away, it has to defend this place against other players. Thus they need to create defensive structures, which again need power plants. If you have defensive structures and power plants on a mining base and some power surplus due to it then its economic to just continue and create the needed refinery elements etc. too, which in turn leads to clusters of buildings again.
     
    3. Dependencies
    Similar as all functional elements require electricity there can be other dependencies which make it necessary to create several constructs at the same place. In the new content update we learn about market Bots, where resources can be sold for quanta and elements can be bought (probably very limited after crafting is implemented, but maybe some of the most basic elements can still be bought). Those Quanta and elements aren't created from void and the sold resources can't spontaneously vanish. So if someone wants to place market bots in his base, it would make sense to require a trading hub element in the vicinity. There are quite some heavy industries which are dependent on water as coolant, so some refinery elements could actually need water purification plants in the area, the same plants could be used to support greenhouses or other buildings with water. If several buildings depend on each other there is a huge potential to incline people to gather together and create cities. Especially as everyone has a limited amount of cores available.
     
    ########
     
    I really think that those three points are absolutely necessary for a good experience in DU and will lead to some pretty interesting results.
  4. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Destruktioner in Realistic incentives for City building   
    sadly both kind of players need completely different game mechanics, and while Sims players, with clothes food etc. can play together with warmongers as long as they are save, to many survival mechanics will drive pvp players away. The discussion about having a food system or not was quite big in the past and served to prove that. PvP players want to have clos eto zero survival/upkeep mechanics, while its the bread and butter for rpg/sims/whatever players.
     
    thats one of the problems here, cities need a lot of work without ingame gain, which is why only few players will create one without incentive.  And honestly, who, if not hardcore rp players, would work as garbage collection or similar tedious work in a game if it doesn't pay well? that's why we need gameplay benefits for those things. We can't hope that rp-players have sufficient drive to deal with that.
    I'm all in for social/educational/recreational elements for buildings which could gather players there. Be it an physical therapist center that helps removing penalties due to being reincarnated, Foodstuff/entertainment modules that slightly increase xp gain or whatever, but we can't rely on players without giving benefits. If you want a garbage collector we better have a salvaging mechanic that can be used as personal skill or incorporated in garbage refineries to make their time worthwhile.
  5. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Destruktioner in Realistic incentives for City building   
    To have a somewhat imersive experience in Dual Universe we definitely need to see cities. But why exactly would people create cities in DU if just use a vast amount of resources without any real benefit except for showing off?
     
    Normally city planning depends on  a lot of different factors, like the environment, available resources, especially food, the condition of the ground, expected industries etc. Those are mostly things that wont work in DU. On the other hand, building cities in DU has quite a lot of disadvantages, like being target for raiders, warmongers or just griefplayers. So without any real benefit or need to create cities we will at most have very few large organization building and maintaining a city as HQ and maybe one or two trading hubs. Mostly we'll see well hidden factories and bases which are statistically placed across the planets with nearly no clustering.
     
    There are two possible ways to facilitate cities. One is giving artificial benefits like production bonus or similar things, i wont advocate that as it is unrealistic and just shows a lack of creativity in the game design. The second way is giving realistic incentives. The only incentives that work on larger scales in a mmorpg are economic or security benefits or needs. Social or educational facilities can be mostly ignored (there could be University-Type elements that increase the speed of accumulating xp for the first 20% or something of the skilltree, with which organizations can cater to new players, but that wont be a real incentive for creating a city).
     
    In my mind there are three mechanics which would directly create the need for clustering buildings on a small area:
     
    1. Powergrid
    The first suggestion is, that all functional elements (Doors, electronics etc.) require electricity. Standard, small sized elements would need a marginal amount of power so, that a small generator that can easily be installed in every ship/building is sufficient to support them. More advanced facilities like factories, Elements with strong supporting effects (something like the University for example, or greenhouses), military elements (planetary turrets, shields, sensor units ...) however should have an exponential increase of the power required. Factory units for example should require enough power, that no stacking of small generators can support them.
    To support those power hungry elements players can build power plant elements which are extremely large on scale, like 64³m³. They would support buildings within a certain radius with a set amount of power and to increase that radius you could create power-relay stations. What does this do for city building? If players want to run a factory or other facilities they need to create a power plant. If a single power plant generates enough electricity to support several factories, then the economic way of action would be creating enough factories within the vicinity of a power plant to  effectively use the generated power. A large cluster of factories in turn needs military protection as it is a nice target for raiders, thus we have some kind of city growth. At the same time owners of those power plants could rent space in the effective radius for players which can afford to create a factory, but not the required power plant.
     
    This can be extended to every kind of large scale element which would be nice to have in a city, for example if we want a space port in the city. The simplest way would be to just create some flat areas for ships to land on. But what about quality of life services like refuelling or rearing constructs? Those actions can take ages. If we had large scale elements like a repair Dock, which repairs damaged ships in the vicinity if activated or refuelling stations, those can save a lot of time to players. Elements like that would also require a lot of power, thus the need for a power plant in the vicinity.
     
    In short, if every advanced element has a big size and a large power requirement, coupled with the need of power plants, we would by default see clusters of buildings which can be called cities.
     
    2. Resources
    We can see in some videos how the ground is removed with a tool, its fast, efficient and effortless. if we can mine resources in this way, then DU players will be like a big locust swarm, run across the surface of a planet, scanning and within hours mining all interesting resources. But a big influence on city-building is the need to create a permanent structure in specific places, thus mining resources should definitely not be near-instant. Optimally mining out a big underground ore vein should take years if done by hand or several months when done with elements for mining. If we have long term mining then locations get a certain economic and strategic importance. If an organization finds a large vein of a rare metal it can't just mine it and go away, it has to defend this place against other players. Thus they need to create defensive structures, which again need power plants. If you have defensive structures and power plants on a mining base and some power surplus due to it then its economic to just continue and create the needed refinery elements etc. too, which in turn leads to clusters of buildings again.
     
    3. Dependencies
    Similar as all functional elements require electricity there can be other dependencies which make it necessary to create several constructs at the same place. In the new content update we learn about market Bots, where resources can be sold for quanta and elements can be bought (probably very limited after crafting is implemented, but maybe some of the most basic elements can still be bought). Those Quanta and elements aren't created from void and the sold resources can't spontaneously vanish. So if someone wants to place market bots in his base, it would make sense to require a trading hub element in the vicinity. There are quite some heavy industries which are dependent on water as coolant, so some refinery elements could actually need water purification plants in the area, the same plants could be used to support greenhouses or other buildings with water. If several buildings depend on each other there is a huge potential to incline people to gather together and create cities. Especially as everyone has a limited amount of cores available.
     
    ########
     
    I really think that those three points are absolutely necessary for a good experience in DU and will lead to some pretty interesting results.
  6. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Bluedick in Realistic incentives for City building   
    To have a somewhat imersive experience in Dual Universe we definitely need to see cities. But why exactly would people create cities in DU if just use a vast amount of resources without any real benefit except for showing off?
     
    Normally city planning depends on  a lot of different factors, like the environment, available resources, especially food, the condition of the ground, expected industries etc. Those are mostly things that wont work in DU. On the other hand, building cities in DU has quite a lot of disadvantages, like being target for raiders, warmongers or just griefplayers. So without any real benefit or need to create cities we will at most have very few large organization building and maintaining a city as HQ and maybe one or two trading hubs. Mostly we'll see well hidden factories and bases which are statistically placed across the planets with nearly no clustering.
     
    There are two possible ways to facilitate cities. One is giving artificial benefits like production bonus or similar things, i wont advocate that as it is unrealistic and just shows a lack of creativity in the game design. The second way is giving realistic incentives. The only incentives that work on larger scales in a mmorpg are economic or security benefits or needs. Social or educational facilities can be mostly ignored (there could be University-Type elements that increase the speed of accumulating xp for the first 20% or something of the skilltree, with which organizations can cater to new players, but that wont be a real incentive for creating a city).
     
    In my mind there are three mechanics which would directly create the need for clustering buildings on a small area:
     
    1. Powergrid
    The first suggestion is, that all functional elements (Doors, electronics etc.) require electricity. Standard, small sized elements would need a marginal amount of power so, that a small generator that can easily be installed in every ship/building is sufficient to support them. More advanced facilities like factories, Elements with strong supporting effects (something like the University for example, or greenhouses), military elements (planetary turrets, shields, sensor units ...) however should have an exponential increase of the power required. Factory units for example should require enough power, that no stacking of small generators can support them.
    To support those power hungry elements players can build power plant elements which are extremely large on scale, like 64³m³. They would support buildings within a certain radius with a set amount of power and to increase that radius you could create power-relay stations. What does this do for city building? If players want to run a factory or other facilities they need to create a power plant. If a single power plant generates enough electricity to support several factories, then the economic way of action would be creating enough factories within the vicinity of a power plant to  effectively use the generated power. A large cluster of factories in turn needs military protection as it is a nice target for raiders, thus we have some kind of city growth. At the same time owners of those power plants could rent space in the effective radius for players which can afford to create a factory, but not the required power plant.
     
    This can be extended to every kind of large scale element which would be nice to have in a city, for example if we want a space port in the city. The simplest way would be to just create some flat areas for ships to land on. But what about quality of life services like refuelling or rearing constructs? Those actions can take ages. If we had large scale elements like a repair Dock, which repairs damaged ships in the vicinity if activated or refuelling stations, those can save a lot of time to players. Elements like that would also require a lot of power, thus the need for a power plant in the vicinity.
     
    In short, if every advanced element has a big size and a large power requirement, coupled with the need of power plants, we would by default see clusters of buildings which can be called cities.
     
    2. Resources
    We can see in some videos how the ground is removed with a tool, its fast, efficient and effortless. if we can mine resources in this way, then DU players will be like a big locust swarm, run across the surface of a planet, scanning and within hours mining all interesting resources. But a big influence on city-building is the need to create a permanent structure in specific places, thus mining resources should definitely not be near-instant. Optimally mining out a big underground ore vein should take years if done by hand or several months when done with elements for mining. If we have long term mining then locations get a certain economic and strategic importance. If an organization finds a large vein of a rare metal it can't just mine it and go away, it has to defend this place against other players. Thus they need to create defensive structures, which again need power plants. If you have defensive structures and power plants on a mining base and some power surplus due to it then its economic to just continue and create the needed refinery elements etc. too, which in turn leads to clusters of buildings again.
     
    3. Dependencies
    Similar as all functional elements require electricity there can be other dependencies which make it necessary to create several constructs at the same place. In the new content update we learn about market Bots, where resources can be sold for quanta and elements can be bought (probably very limited after crafting is implemented, but maybe some of the most basic elements can still be bought). Those Quanta and elements aren't created from void and the sold resources can't spontaneously vanish. So if someone wants to place market bots in his base, it would make sense to require a trading hub element in the vicinity. There are quite some heavy industries which are dependent on water as coolant, so some refinery elements could actually need water purification plants in the area, the same plants could be used to support greenhouses or other buildings with water. If several buildings depend on each other there is a huge potential to incline people to gather together and create cities. Especially as everyone has a limited amount of cores available.
     
    ########
     
    I really think that those three points are absolutely necessary for a good experience in DU and will lead to some pretty interesting results.
  7. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from DragonShadow in Realistic incentives for City building   
    To have a somewhat imersive experience in Dual Universe we definitely need to see cities. But why exactly would people create cities in DU if just use a vast amount of resources without any real benefit except for showing off?
     
    Normally city planning depends on  a lot of different factors, like the environment, available resources, especially food, the condition of the ground, expected industries etc. Those are mostly things that wont work in DU. On the other hand, building cities in DU has quite a lot of disadvantages, like being target for raiders, warmongers or just griefplayers. So without any real benefit or need to create cities we will at most have very few large organization building and maintaining a city as HQ and maybe one or two trading hubs. Mostly we'll see well hidden factories and bases which are statistically placed across the planets with nearly no clustering.
     
    There are two possible ways to facilitate cities. One is giving artificial benefits like production bonus or similar things, i wont advocate that as it is unrealistic and just shows a lack of creativity in the game design. The second way is giving realistic incentives. The only incentives that work on larger scales in a mmorpg are economic or security benefits or needs. Social or educational facilities can be mostly ignored (there could be University-Type elements that increase the speed of accumulating xp for the first 20% or something of the skilltree, with which organizations can cater to new players, but that wont be a real incentive for creating a city).
     
    In my mind there are three mechanics which would directly create the need for clustering buildings on a small area:
     
    1. Powergrid
    The first suggestion is, that all functional elements (Doors, electronics etc.) require electricity. Standard, small sized elements would need a marginal amount of power so, that a small generator that can easily be installed in every ship/building is sufficient to support them. More advanced facilities like factories, Elements with strong supporting effects (something like the University for example, or greenhouses), military elements (planetary turrets, shields, sensor units ...) however should have an exponential increase of the power required. Factory units for example should require enough power, that no stacking of small generators can support them.
    To support those power hungry elements players can build power plant elements which are extremely large on scale, like 64³m³. They would support buildings within a certain radius with a set amount of power and to increase that radius you could create power-relay stations. What does this do for city building? If players want to run a factory or other facilities they need to create a power plant. If a single power plant generates enough electricity to support several factories, then the economic way of action would be creating enough factories within the vicinity of a power plant to  effectively use the generated power. A large cluster of factories in turn needs military protection as it is a nice target for raiders, thus we have some kind of city growth. At the same time owners of those power plants could rent space in the effective radius for players which can afford to create a factory, but not the required power plant.
     
    This can be extended to every kind of large scale element which would be nice to have in a city, for example if we want a space port in the city. The simplest way would be to just create some flat areas for ships to land on. But what about quality of life services like refuelling or rearing constructs? Those actions can take ages. If we had large scale elements like a repair Dock, which repairs damaged ships in the vicinity if activated or refuelling stations, those can save a lot of time to players. Elements like that would also require a lot of power, thus the need for a power plant in the vicinity.
     
    In short, if every advanced element has a big size and a large power requirement, coupled with the need of power plants, we would by default see clusters of buildings which can be called cities.
     
    2. Resources
    We can see in some videos how the ground is removed with a tool, its fast, efficient and effortless. if we can mine resources in this way, then DU players will be like a big locust swarm, run across the surface of a planet, scanning and within hours mining all interesting resources. But a big influence on city-building is the need to create a permanent structure in specific places, thus mining resources should definitely not be near-instant. Optimally mining out a big underground ore vein should take years if done by hand or several months when done with elements for mining. If we have long term mining then locations get a certain economic and strategic importance. If an organization finds a large vein of a rare metal it can't just mine it and go away, it has to defend this place against other players. Thus they need to create defensive structures, which again need power plants. If you have defensive structures and power plants on a mining base and some power surplus due to it then its economic to just continue and create the needed refinery elements etc. too, which in turn leads to clusters of buildings again.
     
    3. Dependencies
    Similar as all functional elements require electricity there can be other dependencies which make it necessary to create several constructs at the same place. In the new content update we learn about market Bots, where resources can be sold for quanta and elements can be bought (probably very limited after crafting is implemented, but maybe some of the most basic elements can still be bought). Those Quanta and elements aren't created from void and the sold resources can't spontaneously vanish. So if someone wants to place market bots in his base, it would make sense to require a trading hub element in the vicinity. There are quite some heavy industries which are dependent on water as coolant, so some refinery elements could actually need water purification plants in the area, the same plants could be used to support greenhouses or other buildings with water. If several buildings depend on each other there is a huge potential to incline people to gather together and create cities. Especially as everyone has a limited amount of cores available.
     
    ########
     
    I really think that those three points are absolutely necessary for a good experience in DU and will lead to some pretty interesting results.
  8. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Morzor in Realistic incentives for City building   
    To have a somewhat imersive experience in Dual Universe we definitely need to see cities. But why exactly would people create cities in DU if just use a vast amount of resources without any real benefit except for showing off?
     
    Normally city planning depends on  a lot of different factors, like the environment, available resources, especially food, the condition of the ground, expected industries etc. Those are mostly things that wont work in DU. On the other hand, building cities in DU has quite a lot of disadvantages, like being target for raiders, warmongers or just griefplayers. So without any real benefit or need to create cities we will at most have very few large organization building and maintaining a city as HQ and maybe one or two trading hubs. Mostly we'll see well hidden factories and bases which are statistically placed across the planets with nearly no clustering.
     
    There are two possible ways to facilitate cities. One is giving artificial benefits like production bonus or similar things, i wont advocate that as it is unrealistic and just shows a lack of creativity in the game design. The second way is giving realistic incentives. The only incentives that work on larger scales in a mmorpg are economic or security benefits or needs. Social or educational facilities can be mostly ignored (there could be University-Type elements that increase the speed of accumulating xp for the first 20% or something of the skilltree, with which organizations can cater to new players, but that wont be a real incentive for creating a city).
     
    In my mind there are three mechanics which would directly create the need for clustering buildings on a small area:
     
    1. Powergrid
    The first suggestion is, that all functional elements (Doors, electronics etc.) require electricity. Standard, small sized elements would need a marginal amount of power so, that a small generator that can easily be installed in every ship/building is sufficient to support them. More advanced facilities like factories, Elements with strong supporting effects (something like the University for example, or greenhouses), military elements (planetary turrets, shields, sensor units ...) however should have an exponential increase of the power required. Factory units for example should require enough power, that no stacking of small generators can support them.
    To support those power hungry elements players can build power plant elements which are extremely large on scale, like 64³m³. They would support buildings within a certain radius with a set amount of power and to increase that radius you could create power-relay stations. What does this do for city building? If players want to run a factory or other facilities they need to create a power plant. If a single power plant generates enough electricity to support several factories, then the economic way of action would be creating enough factories within the vicinity of a power plant to  effectively use the generated power. A large cluster of factories in turn needs military protection as it is a nice target for raiders, thus we have some kind of city growth. At the same time owners of those power plants could rent space in the effective radius for players which can afford to create a factory, but not the required power plant.
     
    This can be extended to every kind of large scale element which would be nice to have in a city, for example if we want a space port in the city. The simplest way would be to just create some flat areas for ships to land on. But what about quality of life services like refuelling or rearing constructs? Those actions can take ages. If we had large scale elements like a repair Dock, which repairs damaged ships in the vicinity if activated or refuelling stations, those can save a lot of time to players. Elements like that would also require a lot of power, thus the need for a power plant in the vicinity.
     
    In short, if every advanced element has a big size and a large power requirement, coupled with the need of power plants, we would by default see clusters of buildings which can be called cities.
     
    2. Resources
    We can see in some videos how the ground is removed with a tool, its fast, efficient and effortless. if we can mine resources in this way, then DU players will be like a big locust swarm, run across the surface of a planet, scanning and within hours mining all interesting resources. But a big influence on city-building is the need to create a permanent structure in specific places, thus mining resources should definitely not be near-instant. Optimally mining out a big underground ore vein should take years if done by hand or several months when done with elements for mining. If we have long term mining then locations get a certain economic and strategic importance. If an organization finds a large vein of a rare metal it can't just mine it and go away, it has to defend this place against other players. Thus they need to create defensive structures, which again need power plants. If you have defensive structures and power plants on a mining base and some power surplus due to it then its economic to just continue and create the needed refinery elements etc. too, which in turn leads to clusters of buildings again.
     
    3. Dependencies
    Similar as all functional elements require electricity there can be other dependencies which make it necessary to create several constructs at the same place. In the new content update we learn about market Bots, where resources can be sold for quanta and elements can be bought (probably very limited after crafting is implemented, but maybe some of the most basic elements can still be bought). Those Quanta and elements aren't created from void and the sold resources can't spontaneously vanish. So if someone wants to place market bots in his base, it would make sense to require a trading hub element in the vicinity. There are quite some heavy industries which are dependent on water as coolant, so some refinery elements could actually need water purification plants in the area, the same plants could be used to support greenhouses or other buildings with water. If several buildings depend on each other there is a huge potential to incline people to gather together and create cities. Especially as everyone has a limited amount of cores available.
     
    ########
     
    I really think that those three points are absolutely necessary for a good experience in DU and will lead to some pretty interesting results.
  9. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Bambino in Politics, Government and Player Voting Power   
    well, of all the possible systems of government you chose the democracy and deny the existence of other forms, isn't that in itself pretty limiting? Besides, its a bit arrogant to think that democracy is the only way to go for an advanced civilization, democracy is a pretty limited system, it only really works in idealistic environments where every person is well informed about political, economical etc. issues. Otherwise it devolves into inefficient structures lead by persons without excellence which only serve to limit the development of a state.
  10. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Supermega in Territories for landing   
    laws, sure, get your organization to enforce them, artificial restrictions? surely not. Star citizen isnt exactly comparable to DU.
  11. Like
    vylqun reacted to NQ-Nyzaltar in Territories for landing   
    Hi everyone,
     
    Preventing a construct to enter a specific space is a sensible topic as it could be abused the other way (like imprisoning constructs).
    While we are aware  that giving total freedom on landing anywhere could lead to griefing behavior (especially in Safe Zones where it won't be possible to destroy Constructs having for sole/main purpose to annoy other players, due to the "no PVP" rule), we don't think preventing a Construct to enter a specific space is the right approach. We are currently considering less extreme alternatives that would discourage griefing behavior. These alternatives could define in which case countermeasures can be triggered if visitors don't abide by the rules set on said territory. This will be most likely tied to Territory Units. This topic will be developed further at a later stage of the game development.
     
    Best Regards,
    Nyzaltar.
     
     
  12. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Mephetic in Realistic incentives for City building   
    To have a somewhat imersive experience in Dual Universe we definitely need to see cities. But why exactly would people create cities in DU if just use a vast amount of resources without any real benefit except for showing off?
     
    Normally city planning depends on  a lot of different factors, like the environment, available resources, especially food, the condition of the ground, expected industries etc. Those are mostly things that wont work in DU. On the other hand, building cities in DU has quite a lot of disadvantages, like being target for raiders, warmongers or just griefplayers. So without any real benefit or need to create cities we will at most have very few large organization building and maintaining a city as HQ and maybe one or two trading hubs. Mostly we'll see well hidden factories and bases which are statistically placed across the planets with nearly no clustering.
     
    There are two possible ways to facilitate cities. One is giving artificial benefits like production bonus or similar things, i wont advocate that as it is unrealistic and just shows a lack of creativity in the game design. The second way is giving realistic incentives. The only incentives that work on larger scales in a mmorpg are economic or security benefits or needs. Social or educational facilities can be mostly ignored (there could be University-Type elements that increase the speed of accumulating xp for the first 20% or something of the skilltree, with which organizations can cater to new players, but that wont be a real incentive for creating a city).
     
    In my mind there are three mechanics which would directly create the need for clustering buildings on a small area:
     
    1. Powergrid
    The first suggestion is, that all functional elements (Doors, electronics etc.) require electricity. Standard, small sized elements would need a marginal amount of power so, that a small generator that can easily be installed in every ship/building is sufficient to support them. More advanced facilities like factories, Elements with strong supporting effects (something like the University for example, or greenhouses), military elements (planetary turrets, shields, sensor units ...) however should have an exponential increase of the power required. Factory units for example should require enough power, that no stacking of small generators can support them.
    To support those power hungry elements players can build power plant elements which are extremely large on scale, like 64³m³. They would support buildings within a certain radius with a set amount of power and to increase that radius you could create power-relay stations. What does this do for city building? If players want to run a factory or other facilities they need to create a power plant. If a single power plant generates enough electricity to support several factories, then the economic way of action would be creating enough factories within the vicinity of a power plant to  effectively use the generated power. A large cluster of factories in turn needs military protection as it is a nice target for raiders, thus we have some kind of city growth. At the same time owners of those power plants could rent space in the effective radius for players which can afford to create a factory, but not the required power plant.
     
    This can be extended to every kind of large scale element which would be nice to have in a city, for example if we want a space port in the city. The simplest way would be to just create some flat areas for ships to land on. But what about quality of life services like refuelling or rearing constructs? Those actions can take ages. If we had large scale elements like a repair Dock, which repairs damaged ships in the vicinity if activated or refuelling stations, those can save a lot of time to players. Elements like that would also require a lot of power, thus the need for a power plant in the vicinity.
     
    In short, if every advanced element has a big size and a large power requirement, coupled with the need of power plants, we would by default see clusters of buildings which can be called cities.
     
    2. Resources
    We can see in some videos how the ground is removed with a tool, its fast, efficient and effortless. if we can mine resources in this way, then DU players will be like a big locust swarm, run across the surface of a planet, scanning and within hours mining all interesting resources. But a big influence on city-building is the need to create a permanent structure in specific places, thus mining resources should definitely not be near-instant. Optimally mining out a big underground ore vein should take years if done by hand or several months when done with elements for mining. If we have long term mining then locations get a certain economic and strategic importance. If an organization finds a large vein of a rare metal it can't just mine it and go away, it has to defend this place against other players. Thus they need to create defensive structures, which again need power plants. If you have defensive structures and power plants on a mining base and some power surplus due to it then its economic to just continue and create the needed refinery elements etc. too, which in turn leads to clusters of buildings again.
     
    3. Dependencies
    Similar as all functional elements require electricity there can be other dependencies which make it necessary to create several constructs at the same place. In the new content update we learn about market Bots, where resources can be sold for quanta and elements can be bought (probably very limited after crafting is implemented, but maybe some of the most basic elements can still be bought). Those Quanta and elements aren't created from void and the sold resources can't spontaneously vanish. So if someone wants to place market bots in his base, it would make sense to require a trading hub element in the vicinity. There are quite some heavy industries which are dependent on water as coolant, so some refinery elements could actually need water purification plants in the area, the same plants could be used to support greenhouses or other buildings with water. If several buildings depend on each other there is a huge potential to incline people to gather together and create cities. Especially as everyone has a limited amount of cores available.
     
    ########
     
    I really think that those three points are absolutely necessary for a good experience in DU and will lead to some pretty interesting results.
  13. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Dirty Garry in Functional Seats/Benches   
    If our ships really get dmg upon hitting the athmosphere with a high speed (devblog) i thought it might be good if that isnt just limited to the ship.
    While asking for a complete inertia model, throwing people against walls when accelerating a construct is probably to much, i'd suggest a damage over time effect when players experience extreme accelerations. This dot would then be weakened by a certain degree if players sit in seats/benches while accelerating/decelerating, depending on the type of seat. A simply bench would only work for slightly to big accelerations, while special high speed seats could prevent that damage for very high accelerations.
     
    This would add a bit of realism to the game and at the same time force people to design their ships with the required amount and class of seating opportunities.
  14. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Atmosph3rik in Functional Seats/Benches   
    If our ships really get dmg upon hitting the athmosphere with a high speed (devblog) i thought it might be good if that isnt just limited to the ship.
    While asking for a complete inertia model, throwing people against walls when accelerating a construct is probably to much, i'd suggest a damage over time effect when players experience extreme accelerations. This dot would then be weakened by a certain degree if players sit in seats/benches while accelerating/decelerating, depending on the type of seat. A simply bench would only work for slightly to big accelerations, while special high speed seats could prevent that damage for very high accelerations.
     
    This would add a bit of realism to the game and at the same time force people to design their ships with the required amount and class of seating opportunities.
  15. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Ben Fargo in Functional Seats/Benches   
    If our ships really get dmg upon hitting the athmosphere with a high speed (devblog) i thought it might be good if that isnt just limited to the ship.
    While asking for a complete inertia model, throwing people against walls when accelerating a construct is probably to much, i'd suggest a damage over time effect when players experience extreme accelerations. This dot would then be weakened by a certain degree if players sit in seats/benches while accelerating/decelerating, depending on the type of seat. A simply bench would only work for slightly to big accelerations, while special high speed seats could prevent that damage for very high accelerations.
     
    This would add a bit of realism to the game and at the same time force people to design their ships with the required amount and class of seating opportunities.
  16. Like
    vylqun reacted to Stig92 in Neutrality Signs?   
    How about this symbol then, placed on the hull at the closest point to main reactor or equivalent. (not mine, found on google)

  17. Like
    vylqun reacted to Lethys in How Much Can The One Shard Universe Handle?   
    https://dualthegame.com/en/news/2018/02/08/in-game-ama-feb-3rd-2018-transcription/
     
     
     
  18. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Lethys in .Penalty Of Death.Scaling Ideas.   
    - limited cores per player != unlimited grow.
    - Any healthy economy needs wastage.
    - DU never defined itself as mainly a social game, the devs always introduce it as a game with emergent gameplay based on crafting, exploring, politica and warfare
    -  competition is an integral part of human interaction in a game and that does extend to pvp
    - without pvp DU would lose a way bigger number of players than it would gain.
     
    any "argument" you gave was "you just want to kill" and "not every game needs pvp", which are no arguments at all.
     
    But i will stop posting here now, because no matter what you write here, pvp will be an important part of du. Nothing will change that.
  19. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Lethys in .Penalty Of Death.Scaling Ideas.   
    nonsense, you keep blabbering on without any valid argument just for the sake of not agreeing. DU was planned as full pvp game (besides the ark zone) from the beginning, the sanctuary moons will be all that pure pve players recieve. Get over it.
  20. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Lethys in .Penalty Of Death.Scaling Ideas.   
    Its not a matter of loving wars or pvp, its a nessecity for the economy and gameplay. Without loss in battles we would have an endlessly increasing amount of resources/constructs leading to a cluttered universe and worthless elements/minerals.
    In my opinion crafters and builders will be way more dependent on PvP than the people who love PvP themselves, because without any loss upon death those crafters and builders will sell nearly nothing and thus won't acquire any wealth/resources to continue doing what they love: craft things.
  21. Like
    vylqun reacted to Lethys in .Penalty Of Death.Scaling Ideas.   
    right now they plan on doing the following:
    - you have a resurection node (one permanent at the arkship, one "mobile" which you can place anywhere you want, possibly more when you learn skills)
    - if you die, you respawn at the nearest node
    - the node you place down needs energy to work - or fuel. So you have to make sure it's powered at all times
    - when you get killed, a RNG determines which items are destroyed and which are dropped
    - you respawn at the node, naked and with no inventory (money is safe and is not destroyed/dropped)
    - you can travel to your body to pick up the items that were dropped (in case they're still there and haven't been looted already by someone else)
     
    The only means to progress in DU is via skills (because it's like in EVE online: you train them via time - there's no "actively using a skill to improve it") and money (quanta). So imho a hit to skills only disencourages players to do PVP (as seen in EVE when flying T3).
    And since it's a subscription based game, you have to invest RL money to play. Over time (months and years) you can train the skills of your character via the same system EVE uses - passive training with time. People would be really upset if they invest say 400€ over 33 months (12€/month to play for example) just to get killed by some random enemy and losing their char.
    Heck, I wouldn't even bother leaving the safezone with my oldest char just to prevent death. And I would constantly make new alts to just kill random players outside the safezone to make them lose their char - just to make a point how BAD that system is.
     
    Penalties to death are required and good - but those should be balanced. Otherwise you just kill pvp completely because noone wants to lose skills or their (old) character. People would just use alts and noob-chars to do pvp - which would be boring to see because they could only use basic stuff. 
     
    I think losing your whole inventory, spawning at some RN (thus you need to get to the battlefield again), needing supplies to gear up, need a new ship to fly there again and possibly losing your other ship to the enemy is already enough as punishment.
  22. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Queejon in FPS Combat?   
    was said by the devs several times. I'm to lazy to search the forum for evidence tho.
  23. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Lethys in FPS Combat?   
    Really now?

    In the part called "scalable combat"
    nearly the whole article
    paragraph "Odds and Ends"
     
    I don't really want to further comment on your ability to find information, i even told you where to look!. If you don't read whole articles, at least use the text search function and look for "lock"...
    There is a big difference in having thousands of people fighting in close range and having thousands of people fighting in close range with a fps system, especially because battles in DU isn't limited to a few dozen predefined vehicles as in planetside. In planetside, if a new player joins a battle, the server just tells the clients that there is vehicle x at location y, the client then loads the locally saved files. If in DU a new player joins the battle, then the server doesn't just need to convey the location, it needs to give a complete set of informaton about a unique construct with all its elements and weapons to all clients. Thats A LOT more information than any mmo fps has to handle, and i don't even want to begin talking about handling the individual damage. So comparing other games where hundreds of players can fight in an Arena of limited size and DU is like comparing the power consumption of a high end pc and a calculator.
     
    No, fps normally involves projectile physics where, for example, its possible to "catch" the bullets meant for other people if you're in the way. Lock and fire means the server registers one single/construct as your target with no calculations considering a physical projectile are done, you basically shoot through other players if they move between you (except if there is a mechanic to verify line of sight)
     
    You can simulate pseudo fps with targeting cones etc. but we will see if they manage to do this, as thats always somehting done clientside and thus not that hard to hack.
  24. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from Murmandamus in Cloaking Tech   
    we do, some are cloaked as tv sattelites while in reality they are and send just garbage^^
  25. Like
    vylqun got a reaction from dw_ace_918 in Politics, Government and Player Voting Power   
    except if you give that power to me.
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