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mish1609

Subscription should not be its pay model

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What kills me is these same people that complain about subscription models likely are fine paying for Netflix, Hulu or whatever else provides entertainment. But put a game label on it and it's like you killed a kitten.

 

Seriously, I've been an unemployed student and was still able to come up with ways to pay for my gaming habit. Out of all the F2P games I have played, only 2 have kept me playing for longer than 1 week... and neither of the started off as F2P. Maintaining a game with updates, patches already costs a lot of money. Add maintaining servers on top of that and you add a massive amount of cost. I don't want a cash shop, I want to pay $5-10 a month and get all of the content. Please don't listen to those asking for F2P.

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I am all for pay to play subscription model. It filters the community yet it is still affordable to everyone who wants. Also plex like system will allow someone to play for free if they choose to put work to it.

Also great argument is continuous support, developement and mainenance of the game in years to come.

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I agree. The money has to come from somewhere, the bills must be paid. That takes priority, otherwise, game success (long-term) could be threatened.

 

Does anyone remember StarForge? Similar idea to a modern sci-fi sandbox game. They failed because they ran out of money. So much motivation and ideas (including fanbase): gone.

 

I don't want the same to happen here because they run out of money. Meanwhile in another specific game, people throw millions at them - because they deem it worth it to them. So I think if this game here can deliver, we should also consider a reasonable monthly fee "worth it" - if no other model can guarantee prolonged stability and success.

 

Besides I'd blatantly argue that most who can spend their free time in front of a computer or similar and in the internet while being able to buy relatively new games on occasion can also somehow afford a reasonable monthly fee for an MMO they consider good enough. I sure as hell could afford an MMO it when I was unemployed for a time and on welfare. In some sense I could even afford one when I was still going to school, basically paid with pocket money.

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I agree. The money has to come from somewhere, the bills must be paid. That takes priority, otherwise, game success (long-term) could be threatened.

 

Does anyone remember StarForge? Similar idea to a modern sci-fi sandbox game. They failed because they ran out of money. So much motivation and ideas (including fanbase): gone.

 

I don't want the same to happen here because they run out of money. Meanwhile in another specific game, people throw millions at them - because they deem it worth it to them. So I think if this game here can deliver, we should also consider a reasonable monthly fee "worth it" - if no other model can guarantee prolonged stability and success.

 

Besides I'd blatantly argue that most who can spend their free time in front of a computer or similar and in the internet while being able to buy relatively new games on occasion can also somehow afford a reasonable monthly fee for an MMO they consider good enough. I sure as hell could afford an MMO it when I was unemployed for a time and on welfare. In some sense I could even afford one when I was still going to school, basically paid with pocket money.

The cause of Starforge's failure was never "lack" of money.  They abandoned it for another project (Reign of Kings) and they just didn't care about it.  Bad programming decisions like voxel placement being entirely client side  (Log off and all blocks you built would disappear.  Comical for sure if building in Co-op but an EPIC fail in a construction game.) To game breaking bugs they never bothered fixing.  Lack of customer support, lack of feedback from Devs.  Starforge is a classic example of Abandonware and should be excommunicated from Steam and everyone's thoughts.  Lack of money was never the cause of its problems....  It was the EFFECT.

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The cause of Starforge's failure was never "lack" of money.  They abandoned it for another project (Reign of Kings) and they just didn't care about it.  Bad programming decisions like voxel placement being entirely client side  (Log off and all blocks you built would disappear.  Comical for sure if building in Co-op but an EPIC fail in a construction game.) To game breaking bugs they never bothered fixing.  Lack of customer support, lack of feedback from Devs.  Starforge is a classic example of Abandonware and should be excommunicated from Steam and everyone's thoughts.  Lack of money was never the cause of its problems....  It was the EFFECT.

In the back of my head I have bits of memory floating around of the old community manager Juno (that was kinda kicked out after taking a pro-community stance) saying that financial aspects also had to do with it somehow. Of course there was general mismanagement and perhaps lack of interest. But these guys got offices or one anyway (remember the first pics that were almost like "straight out of mom's basement" where the two were sitting in front of PCs with socks?) and hired more people. Even some ex-bioware guy. Then they cut down eventually again.

 

I can't imagine money wasn't a topic at one point I suppose, but it may as well been a sacrifice for RoK.

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In the back of my head I have bits of memory floating around of the old community manager Juno (that was kinda kicked out after taking a pro-community stance) saying that financial aspects also had to do with it somehow. Of course there was general mismanagement and perhaps lack of interest. But these guys got offices or one anyway (remember the first pics that were almost like "straight out of mom's basement" where the two were sitting in front of PCs with socks?) and hired more people. Even some ex-bioware guy. Then they cut down eventually again.

 

I can't imagine money wasn't a topic at one point I suppose, but it may as well been a sacrifice for RoK.

I think I recall someone named Juno.  I also recall what you're talking about.  To fix the major issues (like your blocks disappearing when you logged off :wacko: ) would require a massive rewrite of the game code.  So massive they might as well start making a new game.  Which they did. (Ergh)  I attribute Starforge as a huge learning experience for the developers.  An experience that cost them the goodwill and loyalty of the initial player base.  Lessons learned I guess for both the players and developers.

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I must admit i prefer P2P aswell, atleast the way EVE does it. No sign up cost, no cost on expansions just 15 bucks a month for everything and then the optional PLEX ingame if you are rich enough. Also server maintanance and upgrades have costs too.

 

Tho i must admit when i calculate what ive spent on WoW over the decade ive played i can see the argument against P2P. But all in all i did have fun in WoW except the last few exspansions which i tried but never got into really.

 

The B2P can work for some but you would need an ingame store to purchase goodies and whatnot. As many have pointed out and i agree with is that this takes precious development time away from the core game and spends it on fluff or swag or what ever its called today. 

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Enjoyed the devblog outlining the reasoning behind the subscription + option to pay ingame. Sounds like you guys are making good plans.

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This is probably the third time someone has posted this exact topic. May I suggest that people start to check if a topic like this has already been discussed before posting? Even checking the Devblog would tell you.

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This is probably the third time someone has posted this exact topic. May I suggest that people start to check if a topic like this has already been discussed before posting? Even checking the Devblog would tell you.

*Shrugs* Can be hard to do that if you are new xD

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What people have to understand is that for this game to work basically all content (except maybe some cosmetic things, though I fail to see how there could be very many cosmetic things in the game given how we have voxel construction) needs to be available to all players which means the devs can't go around selling expansions like this was WoW, which leaves p2p as the only workable model.

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No sub means game directing power resides among the few whales. A sub means that power is spread out more equally among the player base. This is important when asking for things like new weapon tech vs ship skins that look like polka-dot unicorns

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@Tierless


OR , take for example Planetside 2. 74 skins in 3 months, all of them LOOK, EXACTLY, THE SAME. Cheaters run rampart because of F2P bullshit and of course, lack of content. I will take subscription over anything if it means the game will have content and will deter trolls from hopping in and ruining peoples' fun.

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@Tierless

 

 

OR , take for example Planetside 2. 74 skins in 3 months, all of them LOOK, EXACTLY, THE SAME. Cheaters run rampart because of F2P bullshit and of course, lack of content. I will take subscription over anything if it means the game will have content and will deter trolls from hopping in and ruining peoples' fun.

I agree with this completely :3

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@Tierless

 

 

OR , take for example Planetside 2. 74 skins in 3 months, all of them LOOK, EXACTLY, THE SAME. Cheaters run rampart because of F2P bullshit and of course, lack of content. I will take subscription over anything if it means the game will have content and will deter trolls from hopping in and ruining peoples' fun.

 

Exactly, I really think subscription helps to maintain the integrity of the playerbase, as well as that of the developers/financers.

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I don't think a business model has anything to do with the quality of a game. I know many very good free-to-play games that are also very successful making money and I know subscription games that suck. Some of those still make money but they suck, like WoW and EvE. Guild Wars 2 is buy once to play and it's great.

 

I think the quality of the game itself and "how" its business model is designed is what makes or breaks a game. I think game shops (or premium) that give advantages invisible to others, such as more xp, credits, etc. is not regarded by most as unfair like physical items (mounts, armor, weapons, etc.) are.

 

If you are one of the players that feel everything should be free and people spending money in a game are cheating and it's unfair, then you were probably voting for Bernie, so I have no help for you.

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I don't think a business model has anything to do with the quality of a game. I know many very good free-to-play games that are also very successful making money and I know subscription games that suck. Some of those still make money but they suck, like WoW and EvE. Guild Wars 2 is buy once to play and it's great.

 

I think the quality of the game itself and "how" its business model is designed is what makes or breaks a game. I think game shops (or premium) that give advantages invisible to others, such as more xp, credits, etc. is not regarded by most as unfair like physical items (mounts, armor, weapons, etc.) are.

 

If you are one of the players that feel everything should be free and people spending money in a game are cheating and it's unfair, then you were probably voting for Bernie, so I have no help for you.

 

That game is good, that game sucks. Nope, that's just your opinion, not a valid argument.

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I don't think a business model has anything to do with the quality of a game. I know many very good free-to-play games that are also very successful making money and I know subscription games that suck. Some of those still make money but they suck, like WoW and EvE. Guild Wars 2 is buy once to play and it's great.

 

I think the quality of the game itself and "how" its business model is designed is what makes or breaks a game. I think game shops (or premium) that give advantages invisible to others, such as more xp, credits, etc. is not regarded by most as unfair like physical items (mounts, armor, weapons, etc.) are.

 

If you are one of the players that feel everything should be free and people spending money in a game are cheating and it's unfair, then you were probably voting for Bernie, so I have no help for you.

This.... was one of the most useless posts I have seen in a long time :P

 

Subscriber models are the most fair ways to play as a paid game, that is litterally the best way to do it. Allowing the game to gain a steady and often very stable source of money making it easier to plan and create content. It also makes people more invested aswell and the need for a cash shop dissapears.

 

also, it might be oppinon... but Guild wars 2 was kinda shit, the only good thing about it was the combat and even that got stale after a while.

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I don't think a business model has anything to do with the quality of a game. I know many very good free-to-play games that are also very successful making money and I know subscription games that suck. Some of those still make money but they suck, like WoW and EvE. Guild Wars 2 is buy once to play and it's great.

 

 

Yes dear, yes it does. Free-2-Play leads to no revenue, no revenue leads to company stock plummeting, plummeting leads to the Dark Si--I mean Pay-2-Win. Pay-2-Win leads to non-wanker players leaving for something that is not Pay-2-Win, then Pay-2-Wankers leave and a game dies.

 

 

And WoW went to shit because Blizzard didn't give a flying flamingo after a point. The game was fine until pandas came crushing in. 

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Yes dear, yes it does. Free-2-Play leads to no revenue, no revenue leads to company stock plummeting, plummeting leads to the Dark Si--I mean Pay-2-Win. Pay-2-Win leads to non-wanker players leaving for something that is not Pay-2-Win, then Pay-2-Wankers leave and a game dies.

 

 

And WoW went to shit because Blizzard didn't give a flying flamingo after a point. The game was fine until pandas came crushing in. 

It was fine untill WoD came xD don't think that MoP was THAT bad xD

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@Tnecniw


I wouldn't know about World of Warcraft : Stargate Draenor. I laughed though when the lore went from "Fighting Evil In the World Powerpuff Girls Style" to "Back to the Good Days Expansion Time Travel".

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@Tnecniw

 

 

I wouldn't know about World of Warcraft : Stargate Draenor. I laughed though when the lore went from "Fighting Evil In the World Powerpuff Girls Style" to "Back to the Good Days Expansion Time Travel".

Yeah, if Legion is good (which it seems to be) then I will suggest that we forget WoD

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