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SAVE THE DATE: ATHENA ON PTS MARCH 31ST - discussion thread


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If a full wipe does happen, I'm gone.


I have relied on the fact that NQ has said that a wipe is only the last resort.

 

So I have invested as much time as I could in the last months, procured Quantas and Blueprints. Other players were creative and spent months building their buildings/ships.

I don't give a shit about the players who have enriched themselves in some illegalway, but why should the community suffer?

 

The market can still be brought in order, only need is a consumption here (except fuel).  Be it about the elements that break down, factories that lose efficiency or the like. Also, you could insert a Recykler, where you get a small l share of ore in return from broken parts.

 

It's nice that there should be an Aphelia Space market, I would much rather see player markets, where you can log in from your location.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Edited just now by PotatoMart
Edited by PotatoMart
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3 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

 

In space there is no "max speed",

 

 

Bro, this is a video game. Its not real life.  IF you do not know that then I really hope you seek some professional help. Mental illness is a real issue millions are effected with, please take the first step to try to find a professional to help you out.  Good luck I hope things get better for you.

 

Edited by VandelayIndustries
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57 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

Bro, this is a video game. Its not real life.  IF you do not know that then I really hope you seek some professional help. Mental illness is a real issue millions are effected with, please take the first step to try to find a professional to help you out.  Good luck I hope things get better for you.

 

... and how is this constructive in any way?

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6 minutes ago, fridaywitch said:

... and how is this constructive in any way?

 

I'm sorry that maybe you prefer trolling or being toxic, but people often need help.  And being unable to distinguish real life from a video game is not good. Encouraging people to get help is the right thing to do, even if it's on a video game forum. 

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11 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

I'm sorry that maybe you prefer trolling or being toxic, but people often need help.  And being unable to distinguish real life from a video game is not good. Encouraging people to get help is the right thing to do, even if it's on a video game forum. 

that guy needs help because there's no max speed in IRL space?  Got it.

 

Also, I don't see how I'm trolling or being toxic.

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2 minutes ago, fridaywitch said:

that guy needs help because there's no max speed in IRL space?  Got it.

 

Also, I don't see how I'm trolling or being toxic.

 

It's the warning signs. I've seen it before in EvE. I have gifted to Plex for good and Broadcast for Reps in eve that focuses on mental illness and mental health.  People often dive deep into mmos and the early warning signs are confusing the game and real life.  The early signs I've seen before start exactly like that saying that "since there is max speed in space IRL then there should be none in the DU game". That's what I'm saying. Maybe it amounts to nothing, which I hope, but if I can offer encouragement to rethink or get professional help if needed then it's worth it to me. Mental health is something every one should constantly work on, and encourage others too.  

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4 hours ago, blazemonger said:

In space there is no "max speed", As long as you can apply more thrust than the mass of your object, you accelerate, it is that simple. For technical reasons having a cap at 30K is fair enough but capping speed based on mass, especially when you already have the means to better balance this, makes absolutely no sense.

But there is max thrust. IE if our engines only exhaust at 30k,  once your going 30k your not going to go any faster.  And if each one of those exhaust particles can only push so much mass. You could reach a point where with the same engine a lighter ship reaches the max speed that the thrust allows. where a heavier ship will not reach that max speed that the thrust allows. 

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4 minutes ago, RugesV said:

But there is max thrust. IE if our engines only exhaust at 30k,  once your going 30k your not going to go any faster.  And if each one of those exhaust particles can only push so much mass. You could reach a point where with the same engine a lighter ship reaches the max speed that the thrust allows. where a heavier ship will not reach that max speed that the thrust allows. 

 

Exactly.  But what it boils down to is what gameplay NQ chooses. Maybe there is better ways, but would take longer to develop I can't say for sure as we all speculate. But the reality is most people seem to want new gameplay options as to how bigger and smaller ships perform, thus creating "roles" for ships in pvp and hauling. Options are what make games like this fun, where many ships/and ship builds can Excell in one area but maybe are bad in others. It's not fun when 1 or 2 types of ships can "do it all". Now sure we can debate how NQ chooses to implement it i.e these new speed changes, but the reality is it seems NQ is on a tight budget and a rush to release and make a final market push to make their game viable and sustainable and profitable.  We shall see if their effort is enough soon.

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1 hour ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

It's the warning signs. I've seen it before in EvE. I have gifted to Plex for good and Broadcast for Reps in eve that focuses on mental illness and mental health.  People often dive deep into mmos and the early warning signs are confusing the game and real life.  The early signs I've seen before start exactly like that saying that "since there is max speed in space IRL then there should be none in the DU game". That's what I'm saying. Maybe it amounts to nothing, which I hope, but if I can offer encouragement to rethink or get professional help if needed then it's worth it to me. Mental health is something every one should constantly work on, and encourage others too.  

I don't see how someone stating that there's no max speed in space that there is something wrong with their mental health and that you and your medical degree is capable of diagnosing that over such a small amount of data.  Your concern trolling isn't welcome.

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3 minutes ago, fridaywitch said:

I don't see how someone stating that there's no max speed in space that there is something wrong with their mental health and that you and your medical degree is capable of diagnosing that over such a small amount of data.  Your concern trolling isn't welcome.

 

If you want to choose to be toxic that's up to you. I've already explained it to you and the fact you chose not to read isn't my problem. 

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@VandelayIndustries

 

Bro, this is a video game. Its not real life.

 

Bro, why do we use our ingame feet to walk in the game? This is a video game, why would we use the same concept as in real life? What does make you to think there is something wrong with relation between "In space there is no "max speed" " and "In game there should also be no "max speed" "? If you like different max speed depending on mass it doesn't automatically means it's the right or not right thing in game.

 

Your message about mental illness seems very toxic to me.

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By the way, this is sci-fi game... So, it should reflect some scientific principles more or less... And declaring the max speed dependancy from the construct mass is no way scientific principle.

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4 minutes ago, Sawafa said:

@VandelayIndustries

 

Bro, this is a video game. Its not real life.

 

Bro, why do we use our ingame feet to walk in the game? This is a video game, why would we use the same concept as in real life? What does make you to think there is something wrong with relation between "In space there is no "max speed" " and "In game there should also be no "max speed" "? If you like different max speed depending on mass it doesn't automatically means it's the right or not right thing in game.

 

Your message about mental illness seems very toxic to me.

 

I don't I fly around, and I have no health or fall dmg. I jetpack around in space and do things that would kill me a million times over IRL. You make and base video games off of gameplay.  That is if you actually want a player base to pay and play.  This is also a business to NQ. 

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1 hour ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

If you want to choose to be toxic that's up to you. I've already explained it to you and the fact you chose not to read isn't my problem. 

At no point have I been toxic.  You are the one telling someone that they need mental help over a simple statement about how speed in space works.

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1 minute ago, fridaywitch said:

At no point have I been toxic.  You are the one telling someone that they need mental help over a simple statement about how speed in space works.

 

I said they MIGHT. And odds are they don't.  But there are huge positive communities ive been apart of in EvE where they focus on mental health because its a factor that quite frankly effects all, granted to others not as much, or sometimes so little you dont notice it you just have a "bad day".  But ive seen similar warning signs before and I think its always better to error on caution and bring it to light and he should reflect on that, and then decide for himself if maybe he should go further to seek a professional.  I know you may not care and thats fine your under no obligation too, but its the little things like this, that can be that positive spark for someone. You never know. 

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3 hours ago, RugesV said:

But there is max thrust. IE if our engines only exhaust at 30k,  once your going 30k your not going to go any faster.  And if each one of those exhaust particles can only push so much mass. You could reach a point where with the same engine a lighter ship reaches the max speed that the thrust allows. where a heavier ship will not reach that max speed that the thrust allows. 

 

Certainly and as I stated, as long as your max thrust exceeds yoru constructs mass you shoud continue to accelerate.

 

The point here though is not really about that. These changes, ESPECIALLY in light of it being the last major patch before release, will skew enaggements in favor of "PVP gameplay"

The game at lauch wil lack any incentive or reason for non combatant players to leave the safezones as there is nothing htere that validates the risk. It is a major sortfall and cuts out a massive part of the original pland and design for the game.

Both the max speed and the statis weapon change are entirely in favor of aggressors and there is _nothing_ that anyone outside that group can do to counter it outsid eof maybe go the long way around which now wil take even longer than before and then the risk still is greater that it needs to be. 

NQ is rushing this game to release and it's a damn shame that they have hollowed out what many of us signed up for to a very shallow and frankly uninspiring set of game mechanics with nothing that binds it all together to become a game. Having no money to actually develop a game really only will lead to one outcome and it appears that is where DU is heading .. and fast.

I predicted early this year that what was on the "TBD" box on the roadmap then was what would be the last bit to go in before release and I was right. I expected NQ to release end of this year, it now seem sthat they will do so sooner, probaly more like september. And this time next year I expect the chance of the game being shut down or at best about to be not unlikely.

Where is the player markets?

Where are the pets?

Where is the Territory warfare?

 

We are going to release with safezones around planets intact, there is nothing outside the main safe zone that the vast majority of players will need or want to get for themselves. The entire MMO aspect of DU is pretty much dead. ANd that there remain zero reason for anyone not interested in combat to take the risk of going into PVP space will be the undoing of the game.

NQ is out of time and out of money beyond keeping the lights on it seems and al lthey have is hope for some miracle of tens of thousands to show up for what they plan to release.

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14 hours ago, RugesV said:

If all L cored ships where L sized, If all M core ships where M sized, if all S core ships where S sized.  I would agree.  But you can get a medium core ship that weighs 10KT, and you can get a Large core ship that weighs 1KT.  

 

Core size does not reflect ship size.  And this is something I said from day 1 when they added shields to PTS. Shield HP should be a multiple of voxel HP. 

 

Restricting L shields to L core only would be bad for the game. 

 

I get your idea, but it is a punch in the face regarding to weapon sizes, which causes further problems.

Weapon sizes are restricted to their counterpart core size. Thats what we have right now

 

I get the point:

  • Large weapons higher base dmg and more range
  • Medium weapon doesnt reach the values of L core weapon.  (I think we can agree on that)

 

On the otherside we do have model/texture size

  • So smaller a weapon gets, so smaller their model

 

The benefit of a M-core is a smaller cross-section which means that a L-Core with his L-weapon does have problems with the hitchance. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT

  • A L-Core ship have to fight against M-Ship with a smaller cross-section, results in a small hit chance + 20 mio shield points
  • A M-core ship have to fight against a L-Ship with a bigger cross-section, results in a better hit chance + 20 mio shield points

Btw medium precision railguns does have a pretty range and a decent dmg too.

 

The advantages of an m-core currently outweigh those of an L-core. This is something I am not happy about.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

 

 

The point here though is not really about that. These changes, ESPECIALLY in light of it being the last major patch before release, will skew enaggements in favor of "PVP gameplay"

The game at lauch wil lack any incentive or reason for non combatant players to leave the safezones as there is nothing htere that validates the risk. It is a major sortfall and cuts out a massive part of the original pland and design for the game.

Both the max speed and the statis weapon change are entirely in favor of aggressors and there is _nothing_ that anyone outside that group can do to counter it outsid eof maybe go the long way around which now wil take even longer than before and then the risk still is greater that it needs to be. 

 

 

Your point of view seems skewed pretty bad and all over the place.  So you are saying people that literally make 1billion per mission run isn't an incentive to go into the pvp zone?  Right now they do it with near 99.99% success rate.  So if that drops a little bit so what, to me thats better.  Maybe armed convoys on the shorter mission runs will be the main content for that.  I see nothing wrong with that.  Maybe on fringe efforts or people will try to do the risky long missions that take 8 hours.  

 

Second, the have you thought that people enjoy solo stuff, even the pvpers? I know MANY people who roam asteroids to look for pvp solo.  Sure its slim pickens often but they do it.  Guess what, a miner can have a smaller, faster ship, and use the stasis weapon AGAINST the pvper, and with their shields have time to run off grid and "win".  Maybe they have to drop their ore to reduce weight, maybe not?  But thats a choice they could make for survival.  Regardless we need more info how they work, but im EvE webs are used for defense a LOT, to keep your enemy from getting to close to scram you because its easier to make webs go farther then scrams.  

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4 minutes ago, Koffye said:

 

 

The advantages of an m-core currently outweigh those of an L-core. This is something I am not happy about.

 

 

 

Ok, but that can be balanced. Large cores can still use M/S/XS guns in conjunction with L guns. you can quickly switch seats based on what works best at that moment. Second, i think L cores should have the highest tank (higher shield HP and higher CCS curve or cap).  In EvE your big Dreadnoughts are not used in normal roaming.  But they do have a specific role for sieges/defenses.  L cores should fall into that line.  IMO, for DU pvp to be healthy, the main pvp ships should be S/M cores.  And XS and L should be more niche, yet have specific roles they are good at, and situations where they are not so good.  It would put a good balance for many cores in fleets, and add a good variety to the game that is desperately needed.  Speed changes should just be the FIRST change, to many.  

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2 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

Ok, but that can be balanced. Large cores can still use M/S/XS guns in conjunction with L guns. you can quickly switch seats based on what works best at that moment. Second, i think L cores should have the highest tank (higher shield HP and higher CCS curve or cap).  In EvE your big Dreadnoughts are not used in normal roaming.  But they do have a specific role for sieges/defenses.  L cores should fall into that line.  IMO, for DU pvp to be healthy, the main pvp ships should be S/M cores.  And XS and L should be more niche, yet have specific roles they are good at, and situations where they are not so good.  It would put a good balance for many cores in fleets, and add a good variety to the game that is desperately needed.  Speed changes should just be the FIRST change, to many.  

That could be a option, but such changes will take a while. Lets talk in 5 years again about that again :D

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Just now, Koffye said:

That could be a option, but such changes will take a while. Lets talk in 5 years again about that again :D

 

True, but if NQ decides to make shields only go to their current Core size, that would automatically make L cores tankier, with LOW development. its the same thing they did to guns.  That right there would give L cores a leg up in Alien core defense.  Where the objective isnt to kill everyone, its to "hold the grid and win".  Just saying that could happen quick, if NQ so choose to. Not saying they will but it could happen easy and fast if they wanted. 

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5 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 So you are saying people that literally make 1billion per mission run isn't an incentive to go into the pvp zone? 

Besides there being no reason to run these missions except for being able to boast about your massive bank account as they serve not a single purpose in game, you seem to have trouble understanding what I am saying. There is no reason for non combatants to have business IN PVP space, while you may need to travel through it, there is no reason to be active IN it.

 

And with the new changes this travel wil become even more tedious and take more time.

 

The "alien core" tag-on for the game wil not attract many, if any, outside of those looking for fights, just like is the case with asteroids in PVP space. As a player with no interest in PVP engagements I have no reason at all to venture in to that space and as said, unless I want to brag about the billions I make, there really is no reaosn for me to travel through it either

 

And as it stands, there is nothing left of the original idea of DU, no purpose or need for large scale groups in the context of interaction and co-operation. DU pretty much became a bigger version of Space Engineers with none of the featurs that makes that game great but with several independent and isolated groups of players all doing their own thing. And I see nothing that will change that. The original vision for DU is pretty much done for really.

 

 

5 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

Second, the have you thought that people enjoy solo stuff, even the pvpers? I know MANY people who roam asteroids to look for pvp solo.

And thanks for pretty much making my point

 

 

5 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 Regardless we need more info how they work, but im EvE webs are used for defense a LOT, to keep your enemy from getting to close to scram you because its easier to make webs go farther then scrams.  

Certainly true. While yes, we have little information to go on for now but I very much doubt that the statis weapon will be of any use other than to slow down a target. What NQ is describing is nothing like the stasis web EVE has. And going by what NQ has delieverd before I have no reason to expect they suddenly come up with something like that. There certainly is nothing to indicate this is anyting but an offensive weapon.

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1 minute ago, blazemonger said:

Besides there being no reason to run these missions except for being able to boast about your massive bank account as they server no a single purpose in game, you seem to have trouble understanding what I am saying. There is no reason for non combatants to have business IN PVP space, while you may need to travel through it, ther eis no reason to be active in it.

 

And with the new changes this travel wil become even more tedious and take more time.

 

The "alien core" tag-on for the game wil not attract many, if any, outside of those looking for fights, just like is the case with asteroids in PVP space. As a player with no interest in PVP engagements I have no reason at all to venture in to that space and as said, unless I want to brag about the billions I make, there really is no reaosn for me to travel through it either

 

And as it stands, there is nothing left of the original idea of DU, no purpose or need for large scale groups in the context of interaction and co-operation. DU pretty much became a bigger version of Space Engineers with none of the featurs that makes that game great but with several independent and isolated groups of players all doing their own thing. And I see nothing that will change that. The original vision for DU is pretty much done for really.

 

 

And thanks for pretty much making my point

 

 

 

 

I do agree with you on some of that.  A lot of it stems from separating pvp from non pvp players and content.  In EVE non-pvp players exist in the same pvp game world as everyone else.  If you undock, you are never safe.  As CCP has stated, once you undock in eve, you consent to pvp.  NQ's biggest problem is they have no idea or way to marry these 2 vastly different gameplay types.  Like you said common goals and reasons for the non pvper to BE IN and risk pvp space.  NQ's approach to saying "if you dont want to pvp thats ok you can have and do everything else in the game" doesnt work when you also try to tack on a hardcore full loot open world pvp system next to it.  

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Quote

 

  • We are also altering the behavior around a construct’s maximum speed. Constructs’ mass will now impact their speed; the heavier the ship, the less its maximum speed will be. Thus, smaller ships will be able to catch up bigger ones despite the latter having bigger engines than the former.

 

 

 

So this means that mission ships or transport ships carrying valuable ores, which could previously escape through clever turnaround maneuvers or luck, now have much less chance of running away to escape to a safe zone.
So in that sense it's a buff for PvP pirates.


The only interesting thing about the update for me is probably the star map, if it is well implemented and usable. 
But it's scary that this is supposed to be the last big update before DualUniverse is released. Sure, there could be many smaller ones, but I think real content or big game content will be missing. If that is the case, what should attract new players to the game or keep them in the game for a longer period of time? Basically, this update reads like a disappointment.

 



 

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This announcment basically nullifies the claim NQ is "the Metaverse company".

 

If NQ have plans for a metaverse, DU, in the form it now seems to go to release, certainly ain't it..

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