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Energy / Survival When?


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I mean it's not like energy management was a promise since KS and Survival Mecanics an absolute need in order to make some sense out of this... unless there is no "civilisation rebuilding" ...
Just checked, in fact, this vision has been replaced by "Reboot Society", which is a bit more vague but still can be interpretated as a "Civ Rebuilder Game".
The basic needs ( food , water, clothing, shelter, occupation) are the necessary starters for any economy, then don't want to wipe because still searching the adapted mecanic, ignoring these + power management (legitimate sink) while without these there's no economy. Take a look at the actual market. 
Saturated with t1 sells, eventually with all products up to t5, with very low adversity in buy orders and sometimes even nothing about recipes parts starting from lv2.
People don't eat fixations, or leds, or screws, or pipes. These are only useful to the industrials who have the machines + schematics to process these. Best seller? Ore. Raw Ore. It's been 5 years in some months that they've been simply ignoring the basics concerning this part, which is not mince.

Tbf a lot has been accomplished regarding playability and sustainability, voxel rendition, but "rotating engines when?" if you see what i mean. It's ok to have an "upgradable" tech that you can more or less fix with time, considered the unusual scope of the game, it's less ok to put aside basics which fit the narrative. People need incentives to make it happen. We don't care quanta, as much as it's good to have some, it's preferable to grind over something that make sense in terms of "believable" needs to fulfill rather than force feeding the market to pay your rent...

I don't see more points right now, and most of all i'm never the best defender of an idea but it simply doesn't make sense to me that they don't adress the essential. A Reason To Play.

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never would be my hope, Survival games are not fun. repeating the same life cycle over and over ad nauseam get old really fast.

On top of that it has taken NQ 5(more?) years to get where we are now, they like to make shallow punishing game play cycles, i cannot see how they in any way shape or form would be able to pull of survival elements in a good way

Edited by Kurosawa
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6 hours ago, Kobayashi said:

Power 100% YES
Survival 1000% NO thank you

Opinions... Everyone has one

 

Yes to both, it's easy enough to be a pleb and say on Alioth where there's not much to go wrong.

 

In space your in a vacuum, find a way to survive the lack of anything.

 

On some planets maybe you need to dump heat or have a heat generator, or maybe it's the lack of oxygen, or maybe it's the alpha particles killing the last few brain cells after you finish calibrations.

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Survival (food) does not have to be taken in the traditional form of survival. It is quite possible to use it as boosters, for example, a certain temporary stimulant to increase the accuracy / damage of shooting, or piloting speed, or improve production, or the rate of accumulation of talent points, that is, you can not use them, but you will not receive bonuses if they you don't need at the moment. But such a system would give new content to the game and a new industry - agriculture, as well as the release of quanta and certain materials. So yes, it’s rather not quite Survival, but all this can be competently beaten and built into the environment of this game, but instead, alas, we don’t see anything.
 

I came into the game from the beginning of the Beta, and this is for a minute, it’s been almost a year and a half since, some bugs have been fixed in the game, etc. there was construction and digging, so it remained, nothing new in general, NOTHING appeared, I'm talking about global things .. and similar things that are discussed above could bring a new branch of content and new activities for players, as well as a new experience in pvp and other aspects games - (food \ boosters = bonuses, optional)

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Incentivize players by giving then perks and bonuses for being active in the game, but don't punish players when they for whatever reason are not able to play regularly. This is a subscription game, not free-to-play. So holding players assets hostage and saying 'play or else', will only lead to bad associations with the game.

 

And in that regard having to regularly eat food, would be the same as territory tax for the avatars..

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7 hours ago, FatRillos said:

 Survival, no way. I already have to cook, eat and crap in real life.

 

 

Why does every single one of you automatically assume "having to eat, cook, crap" when we say "survival elements"?

 

No one is talking about having to eat and drink and what not. What we talk about (what I also explicitly mentioned in a video of mine) is survival elements as in: no possibility to breathe under water. Needing shelter from natural elements (storms, rain, snow, cold). Making it so that you actually DIE if you fall into an abyss. Making it so that you cannot simply fly off into space sitting on a bloody chair without any protection around you. All that ties in together with energy, industry and so on.

And of course you can have food and crops and animals and everything - not because you need to consume food every 5 minutes (which is stupid when used in many games), but because through crops and food you have other linking game loops, and the food you can use for boosts or whatever.

 

Ugh!!! God it pisses me off when people keep copy-pasting only the same one argument ignoring everything else ...

 

 

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1 hour ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

 

Why does every single one of you automatically assume "having to eat, cook, crap" when we say "survival elements"?

 

No one is talking about having to eat and drink and what not. What we talk about (what I also explicitly mentioned in a video of mine) is survival elements as in: no possibility to breathe under water. Needing shelter from natural elements (storms, rain, snow, cold). Making it so that you actually DIE if you fall into an abyss. Making it so that you cannot simply fly off into space sitting on a bloody chair without any protection around you. All that ties in together with energy, industry and so on.

And of course you can have food and crops and animals and everything - not because you need to consume food every 5 minutes (which is stupid when used in many games), but because through crops and food you have other linking game loops, and the food you can use for boosts or whatever.

 

Ugh!!! God it pisses me off when people keep copy-pasting only the same one argument ignoring everything else ...

 

 

 

Ya I don't understand these people. When someone says survival mechanics I do not think about eating,drinking.  I'm thinking about an environment that can kill you, ya know if you fall a long distance.  Or need special suits for certain extreme temperatures of planets, etc.  Stuff that gives some challenge and diversity to planets. 

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On 1/24/2022 at 2:54 AM, Feriniya said:

I came into the game from the beginning of the Beta, and this is for a minute, it’s been almost a year and a half since, some bugs have been fixed in the game, etc. there was construction and digging, so it remained, nothing new in general, NOTHING appeared, I'm talking about global things .. <snip>

And if you add another 2-3 years on top of that for those of use that has been here since the very beginning, this is EXACTLY why we are so frustrated with the NQ dev process and this 'game' that could have been so great but is going nowhere.

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27 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

And if you add another 2-3 years on top of that for those of use that has been here since the very beginning, this is EXACTLY why we are so frustrated with the NQ dev process and this 'game' that could have been so great but is going nowhere.

Well, we have what we have .. and maybe in a couple of years ..hehe

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@sHuRuLuNi the 2nd post by the thread starter specifically mentions water and food...

 

Any way Survival is a game genre frequently including aspects of food, rest, water and environment, so when that genre in invoked it is natural to think on food, water and so on.

It sounds like you referee mostly to environment which could use a boost, but some off it is good fun and should be allowed even encourage, like the space chair.

falling from space through atmo in your space suit, no so much.

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Quote

survival elements as in: no possibility to breathe under water.


Okay, but why? What game design purpose does that really serve? How would you handle water in this game, just make it out of bounds or make it more complex where you need special gear to survive underwater? But...why? Nothing special underwater, so why handle it in a special way? 

 

Quote

Needing shelter from natural elements (storms, rain, snow, cold).

 

A whole weather system is a fairly big deal, what design purpose does it serve? Making it so you can survive harsher environments with better equipment? Adding diversity to different worlds? Forcing people to build actual roofs? How do you implement this system without making it a pain to build things outside? 

 

Quote

Making it so that you actually DIE if you fall into an abyss. Making it so that you cannot simply fly off into space sitting on a bloody chair without any protection around you.


This does seem like a simple change -- not really a big deal to me personally as I don't see death in these situations as especially necessary. 

 

Quote

And of course you can have food and crops and animals and everything - not because you need to consume food every 5 minutes (which is stupid when used in many games), but because through crops and food you have other linking game loops, and the food you can use for boosts or whatever.


Survival mechanics are so popular with building games because things like food tie together very cleanly with building. Food is used for adventuring, where you gather more materials, which is used to grow more food; that's a simple and engaging loop. Of course, DU has no adventuring....so the loop wouldn't be complete. That's arguably my biggest criticism of survival-type mechanics: the game can't support them without more depth in the core gameplay. 

 

For example, I don't see any buffs gained from eating etc. as being relevant without things like Territory War or Avatar vs. Avatar combat (which is just a myth and likely will never be implemented). The reason these mechanics work well in survival games is exactly why they'd be of limited use in DU: there needs to be some adventure/combat element for these loops to be complete.  

 

People also tend to roll their eyes when survival mechanics are suggested not because you're wrong or because they are bad ideas, but because it isn't realistic for a studio like NQ to implement.

 

For example, designing a weather system or farming system would take them literally years. Even changing how water works would take a lot of time. We know this because it's been almost 8 years now and they still are tweaking how mining works.

 

So I don't really disagree with these ideas at their core, but also don't think they would be the best use of NQ's glacial development. They need to think very very carefully about design elements that are low impact for development but high impact for engagement, and all the typical survival loops don't seem to fit into that very cleanly. 

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7 hours ago, blundertwink said:


Okay, but why? What game design purpose does that really serve? How would you handle water in this game, just make it out of bounds or make it more complex where you need special gear to survive underwater? But...why? Nothing special underwater, so why handle it in a special way?

 

 

A whole weather system is a fairly big deal, what design purpose does it serve? Making it so you can survive harsher environments with better equipment? Adding diversity to different worlds? Forcing people to build actual roofs? How do you implement this system without making it a pain to build things outside?

 


This does seem like a simple change -- not really a big deal to me personally as I don't see death in these situations as especially necessary.

 


Survival mechanics are so popular with building games because things like food tie together very cleanly with building. Food is used for adventuring, where you gather more materials, which is used to grow more food; that's a simple and engaging loop. Of course, DU has no adventuring....so the loop wouldn't be complete. That's arguably my biggest criticism of survival-type mechanics: the game can't support them without more depth in the core gameplay.

 

For example, I don't see any buffs gained from eating etc. as being relevant without things like Territory War or Avatar vs. Avatar combat (which is just a myth and likely will never be implemented). The reason these mechanics work well in survival games is exactly why they'd be of limited use in DU: there needs to be some adventure/combat element for these loops to be complete.

 

People also tend to roll their eyes when survival mechanics are suggested not because you're wrong or because they are bad ideas, but because it isn't realistic for a studio like NQ to implement.

 

For example, designing a weather system or farming system would take them literally years. Even changing how water works would take a lot of time. We know this because it's been almost 8 years now and they still are tweaking how mining.

 

So I don't really disagree with these ideas at their core, but also don't think they would be the best use of NQ's glacial. They need to think very very carefully about design elements that are low impact for development but high impact for engagement, and all the typical survival loops don't seem to fit into that very cleanly.

This is right on point, in my opinion :)

"For example, designing a weather system or farming system would take them literally years. Even changing how water works would take a lot of time. We know this because it's been almost 8 years now and they still are tweaking how mining."
 

this is the main reason why many, simple things have not yet been introduced. That is, God bless him complex, but there are really simple things like filters \ pointers \ transitions, etc. which are solved literally in 1-2 working days by 5 developers. And it will give more convenience and mechanics than what they do large and for half a year ..

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