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On 6/7/2021 at 3:16 AM, blazemonger said:

NQ seems to be waiting for funding or closing shop after a sale.

This is pretty obvious. Have you looked at the amount of data this game uses, it’s nuts. 

 

The hardcore players putting in serious serious hours will be using way more data than their sub covers, that’s if they are even paying subs rather than alpha supporters or using beta keys.

 

The causal player, well what is in it for them? 

 

You cant have a cool ship with causal mining hours.

You can’t afford the schematics for a sweet industry playing causally.

You can’t be anything but a victor playing PvP casually.

 

So there is the problem, nothing to do if you are casual; vs costing more than you pay if you are hardcore. 

 

So yes, if it doesn’t find funding its doomed.

 

What they should do if they get more time?

 

My opinion is...

Mining, make surface gathering with talents as profitable as underground mining, less holes, less database.

Minng machines you can leave on your Sanctuary plot and anywhere you expand to. Not a high cost tire four machine, but something that the casual can afford so when he comes back each session he has some ore to play with, be it market, industry, etc.

 

Industry, allow usage of an industry to slowly earn you points towards a new schematic, so more ways than just quanta to get them.

Have missions where refine 100 pure carbon, make 10 basic connectors, create 100,000 Advanced electronics. Something that industry guys can actually make money from if they aren’t 5/5 in the entire production line.

Have it so player skill and not just talents make a difference to profit. 

 

PvP, first make it more interesting.

Next, arena combat. You can bring your own ship it suits the level conditions or use a stock ship. Winner gets coin, loser gets practice. Neither lose or take real damage to their ship. Make it that if you don’t have a ship, but have it’s blue print you can use that.

This let’s casuals get in on the action. It lets all players get some experience rather than the hard perfect or dead world of current PvP.

 

Those are my ideas. They could cut and paste them into an announcement and say this is our roadmap for the next three months. If they did they’d be idiots and probably only make me happy.

 

Hire some professionals in game theory, game loops. If they really are trying to make a EVE/Space Engineers hire sme experts in both games to work out their best features and how they could be blended.

 

Talk to your coders, get a project manager and determine what would be cool, vs what is actual possible.

 

Talk to the community more. I don’t care if your say we only had two coders this week as we haven’t paid the others. One showed up Monday but come lunchtime threw his coffee at the screen and walked out, while the other has been head down butt up working but every ten minutes starts swearing in some unknown language about darn voxel correction. Tell us something.

 

Don’ts

Don’t push something out before the 17th unless it’s ready, it will probably cause more harm that good.

Don’t release cool videos of the games to attract new players if the videos don’t actually reflect the current state of the game.

Don’t keep going the way you are, I don’t think it is working.

and most important Don’t listen to me, I don’t know how to make a computer game. 

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For mining I hope NQ will put an end to the traditional mining that we know today.

I have the impression that this is the path he is taking and that it is something that will be able to limit / control the masses of data to be managed.

The 3 things that are being changed:
- Improved surface harvest + ore (Naeris once said that it was in the NQ plans)
- We know that the minning units are planned
- We were promised asteroids

Once all this is in play, why continue to dig holes in the planets?
- Surface harvesting for beginners
- Minning unit on planets to keep node scan gameplay
- Classic mining on asteroids which is renewed every X hours.

We keep all the current game mechanics and we overlay these millions of miles of crazy and useless gallery on the planets.

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I dont know about this. Seems like limiting, basically partially removing one of the few working features. I get bankruptcy ain't nice, then again if the project is done for it is done. Maybe it would be better to be honest. Then again if ppl are happy with a zombie of a game then why not? I felt mining, eventhough at times excessiv, was a defining feature. If you Automine you re daily Dosis to spend or use, I can't see how that would inspire space travel or economy. We would be relieved of the burden or possiblity of mining, but to move on to what? Static PvP that still doesn't work? Warping around empty haulers?or replace mining with even duller surface collection? So serverload wise it might be smart or even necessary. Gameplay wise another blow, to a fragile frame. I guess it will come anyway, yet I hope they fill the growing void of gameplay features. Don't get me wrong I don't want to beat a dead horse. I like the game, yet to watch this mixture of paralysis and slow and suffering winding down is sad to watch. It seems the positive momentum has long been lost. ....surprise us NQ!

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On 6/9/2021 at 1:30 PM, DrDerp said:

I dont know about this. Seems like limiting, basically partially removing one of the few working features. I get bankruptcy ain't nice, then again if the project is done for it is done. Maybe it would be better to be honest. Then again if ppl are happy with a zombie of a game then why not? I felt mining, eventhough at times excessiv, was a defining feature. If you Automine you re daily Dosis to spend or use, I can't see how that would inspire space travel or economy. We would be relieved of the burden or possiblity of mining, but to move on to what? Static PvP that still doesn't work? Warping around empty haulers?or replace mining with even duller surface collection? So serverload wise it might be smart or even necessary. Gameplay wise another blow, to a fragile frame. I guess it will come anyway, yet I hope they fill the growing void of gameplay features. Don't get me wrong I don't want to beat a dead horse. I like the game, yet to watch this mixture of paralysis and slow and suffering winding down is sad to watch. It seems the positive momentum has long been lost. ....surprise us NQ!


 

(After proofreading my English was not really good on my last message, sorry)
 

What I mean is that the mining that we are currently doing on a planet will be moved to asteroids. Both in PvP area and also in PvE area.
 

If NQ pops rocks with a radius of 500m, that is approximately the volume of a tile, you will have plenty of time to use the gameplay of your scanner tool and your directional detector as well as your favorite minning chairs.
 

They are NOT REMOVING any current gameplay elements.
 

This will redirect a lot of people in the space around hot points.
If we go from + 20,000 tiles to a few dozen asteroid for each planet, we will meet and interact with other players more often and the game will gain in interactivity.
 

By the way, it's really a criticism of solo players that we often see => "" Cry cry the game is empty of player, no one anywhere ""
It makes us laugh to see that then when there are ten of us building on the same base or fighting together in PvP ships. Even if they are bad complaints for the game if we listen to them.
=> They remain players who potentially give money to NQ and they must not leave.

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1 hour ago, Knight-Sevy said:

 

They are NOT REMOVING any current gameplay elements.
 

If planetary underground mining is not removed all that will happen is the auto-miners will auto-mine away and the miners will find other plots to manually mine. Voila new devices added and no lag reduction. It will be an amazingly 'interesting' decision.

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I don’t get this mining trauma thing. I haven’t mined for the better part of a year. I build stuff… people buy it. 
I get cash. 
 

but mining is stupidly inefficient with server and voxel data. Single use voxel data should NEVER exist in a shared universe of potentially thousands of people… and 99% of all mining tunnels (pulling that number straight from my arse, I will admit)  are going to be single use. 
 

what an absolute fustercluck. 
Now if they get culling correct (that’s the term for not rendering what isn’t seen) then they can actually just shift that data onto near-line storage and be done with it. 
 

but if for some reason superfluous data is being read time and time again, we’ll then they have a problem on their hands. 
 

they could also use P2P ala bittorrent to reduce server load. 

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2 minutes ago, Cheith said:

If planetary underground mining is not removed all that will happen is the auto-miners will auto-mine away and the miners will find other plots to manually mine. Voila new devices added and no lag reduction. It will be an amazingly 'interesting' decision.

Yes we must remove the planet exploitation and move it to the asteroids.

The asteroid have a lifespan and are completely removed from the game once a time limit has elapsed.

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On 6/12/2021 at 5:06 AM, GraXXoR said:

I don’t get this mining trauma thing. I haven’t mined for the better part of a year. I build stuff… people buy it. 
I get cash.

Cool, for you; but if nobody minded they wouldn’t have the quanta to buys your goods. So your business is reliant on mining and making it as efficient and pleasant as possible. 

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That's my thought about mining also. The way this game is set up, the majority will have to mine to support the market for the relatively few that does not. And as long as mining is the only way to generate new income, that is how it will stay.

 

And right now there is a catch 22 since anyone starting out or who just want to play the game casually and not invest a lot of time, are the ones stuck with mining. Seems like a very effective way to chase people away from the game, if you ask me.

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On 6/11/2021 at 7:06 PM, GraXXoR said:

and 99% of all mining tunnels (pulling that number straight from my arse, I will admit)  are going to be single use

 

That would be no problem if tunnels would have a limited lifespan. They should be removed unless cores are placed to keep them open. That would solve a major part of the data problems with minimum impact on the gameplay. But this has already been suggested before and nobody listened.

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If the territory is claimed (TCU), then the modifications to it should persist indefinitely. Otherwise, I think its ok if the modifications are erased when noone has recently visited the territory.

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I have the impression that it is not that simple.

 

I could be wrong, but to play the game from the alphas phases, NQ offloads a lot of calculations on our game clients for all the environment modifications.

 

This also means pending operations when you make a hole. Now if you also need to calculate the operations required to fill the same hole...

 

I think we agree that we don't want to calculate the filling of our neighbors' holes when we fly over their houses.
And it is certainly out of the question to have more operations pending (new holes dug by the players + filling old unused holes ...).

 

There is arguably only one alternative, to stop digging (or not encourage it) and restrict mining to just a few areas (asteroid in space).

 

Maybe NQ can certainly set up a dynamic asteroid respawn system. For better control of the performance of their servers or the very generation of resources in the game.
If too many operations pending on the server => Creation + weak of asteroid.

 

Either way, I hope they are working on a few things that will keep the game alive (and potentially attract new players).

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18 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

I have the impression that it is not that simple.

 

I could be wrong, but to play the game from the alphas phases, NQ offloads a lot of calculations on our game clients for all the environment modifications.

 

This also means pending operations when you make a hole. Now if you also need to calculate the operations required to fill the same hole...

 

I think we agree that we don't want to calculate the filling of our neighbors' holes when we fly over their houses.
And it is certainly out of the question to have more operations pending (new holes dug by the players + filling old unused holes ...).

 

There is arguably only one alternative, to stop digging (or not encourage it) and restrict mining to just a few areas (asteroid in space).

 

Maybe NQ can certainly set up a dynamic asteroid respawn system. For better control of the performance of their servers or the very generation of resources in the game.
If too many operations pending on the server => Creation + weak of asteroid.

 

Either way, I hope they are working on a few things that will keep the game alive (and potentially attract new players).

I can't say how NQ calculates and store changes.

Yet to me the solution doesn't seem plausible. If the problem were the calculations on digging and the transfer of that data to the db or iops, it doesn't seem to be changing. I can't see a difference in load between 100 people mining an asteroid or the same 100 mining a planet. The calculation and transfer should amount to the same. Only difference might be not all of the 100 reaching an asteroid. If it were about the amount of dataspace used by the sum of all mining alterations to the ground, it seems that could be solved by the limitation to asteroidmining BUT as well by the Forementioned decay/timestamp that deletes all alterations after a given time. Then again if mining weren't the main means of earning quanta, especially for starters, then way less people would mine (e.g. add farming, missionsystem, working PvP, basic mining through extractors, working trade/markets). As well as it is one of the few included game features besides building ships and buildings (so players are pretty much limited to do mining, at least to a big part). If there were other means, Then the current system could be uphold for professional miners, everyone who sees it exclusively as a chore would move on to one of the other game features. That might save even more data than limiting it to certain places. Even with mining, add the announced gems or extras to mining and exclusively to manual mining, abolish meganodes and rather have orevein qualities for diverging return/yield per volume on different nodes. Then mining might also be more of a (specialized) challenge. And a little less data intense. So I think there might be other ways to lower cost on NQ side and uphold and diverse the game experience.  Additionally the limitation will be hard for starters. I expect a big land grab (esp. By orgs) when extractors are introduced. Then starters might have a hard time to territorry fight (If introduced), no active mining on the few remaining tiles, few left for automated extraction? alternatively spaceflight on day one to mine asteroids? With PvP and outside safezones?  I think starters will have a hard time.

 

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On 6/15/2021 at 12:26 PM, DrDerp said:

I can't say how NQ calculates and store changes.

Yet to me the solution doesn't seem plausible. If the problem were the calculations on digging and the transfer of that data to the db or iops, it doesn't seem to be changing. I can't see a difference in load between 100 people mining an asteroid or the same 100 mining a planet. The calculation and transfer should amount to the same. Only difference might be not all of the 100 reaching an asteroid. If it were about the amount of dataspace used by the sum of all mining alterations to the ground, it seems that could be solved by the limitation to asteroidmining BUT as well by the Forementioned decay/timestamp that deletes all alterations after a given time. Then again if mining weren't the main means of earning quanta, especially for starters, then way less people would mine (e.g. add farming, missionsystem, working PvP, basic mining through extractors, working trade/markets). As well as it is one of the few included game features besides building ships and buildings (so players are pretty much limited to do mining, at least to a big part). If there were other means, Then the current system could be uphold for professional miners, everyone who sees it exclusively as a chore would move on to one of the other game features. That might save even more data than limiting it to certain places. Even with mining, add the announced gems or extras to mining and exclusively to manual mining, abolish meganodes and rather have orevein qualities for diverging return/yield per volume on different nodes. Then mining might also be more of a (specialized) challenge. And a little less data intense. So I think there might be other ways to lower cost on NQ side and uphold and diverse the game experience.  Additionally the limitation will be hard for starters. I expect a big land grab (esp. By orgs) when extractors are introduced. Then starters might have a hard time to territorry fight (If introduced), no active mining on the few remaining tiles, few left for automated extraction? alternatively spaceflight on day one to mine asteroids? With PvP and outside safezones?  I think starters will have a hard time.

 

I think the advantage of asteroids is in storing the changes of the world, 100 people who dig a hole leave data for their gallery for the life of the game. 100 people on asteroids only leave this same data for a few days (the time for the asteroid to erase).
 

So maybe the storage of this gallery data is insignificant and it fits on a USB drive. But I guess when I walk around a planet the server sends me information about the location of the galleries and my computer has to calculate it to display it.
This might be the kind of thing we can do without.
 

But you're right, it probably won't fix pending operations.
 

For beginners, all it takes is a small buff on the harvesting tool to allow them to gain their first quanta. 20l per roller is too little. We can consider going up to 100l.
 

Currently, I am able to sell hybrids with 12T of freight in bulk (without a talented pilot) for 200,000 quanta.

Thus, with the daily allowance and a few stones, he can very quickly have enough to buy the ship and accomplish certain missions.
Of course, it won't be mining in space just yet. But why wouldn't becoming an asteroid miner require an investment?
An industrialist must also buy his diagrams and his machines.

 

Finally we'll see

If NQ can keep the current system without suffering any inconvenience I imagine that's good

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