So, what JC is doing now?

[blundertwink]

4 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

Actually, they are.

 

It gets into a gray area -- if they promise to physically ship you a product, that's a very explicit reward. They have to fulfill it in some way. 

 

However, stretch goals are not officially a part of the KS product or project per their terms/descriptions. 

 

Beyond stretch goals, their obligation is to "complete the project", not necessarily to "complete the project exactly as described".

 

Features aren't actually rewards, they are part of the product description or stretch goal -- so their obligation is different and a lot more vague. 

 

Realistically, KS does not get involved in disputes or refunds, so there's very little recourse even if you think they "failed to deliver rewards". 

 

You'd pretty much have to actually sue NQ. 

 

TLDR: only back a KS project if you really believe in the project to the point where you don't expect much of anything in return, because the law isn't really on your side in terms of getting that money back if they fail to meet your expectations. 

[le_souriceau]

1 hour ago, blundertwink said:

TLDR: only back a KS project if you really believe in the project to the point where you don't expect much of anything in return, because the law isn't really on your side in terms of getting that money back if they fail to meet your expectations. 

 

Ironocly, backer attiration over all these years (not a joke -- since 2016, its at best will be 7 years to so called release), was so high, I think barely several hundreds of them will be present here.

 

In very cynical sense, NQ pretty much "outwaited" quite a lot of possible trouble. Most people who may be offended by outcome/managment of this development, now with much more grey hair and not give much muck about NQ or DU anymore, moved on. Maybe even actualy dead already, who knows.

 

For NQ at the end it was pretty much free money. Many people not even strained servers much by their presence, not wanting to play that BS (in terms of that is not what they thinked they backed).

 

 

[joaocordeiro]

Lol @Jake Arver

So they say that you can have a "bad reputation" or what ever the backers can do to you.... 

How reassuring of kick starter.... 

[Novean-32184]

23 hours ago, blundertwink said:

It gets into a gray area

 

Certainly and I understand the nuances that apply here. I only responded as the "there is no obligation" is simply not true, at best you can say that KickStarter themselves wash their hands in innocence in these matters.

 

Personally, I have written off the pledge as a loss, I honestly doubt I will even be able to redeem the 4+ years of DAC I have and would not at all be surprised is NQ finds ways to apply DAC in game for other purposes to "bleed of" the massive amount of "free" gametime backers have. 

For all intents and purposes, backers are a pain in the butt, they have no value for NQ at this time and are only a group of potential players they will likely never see another cent off of, while what they paid has been long gone.


 

  

19 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

So they say that you can have a "bad reputation" or what ever the backers can do to you.

No, they are just saying your apparent understanding of the position of NQ in this is wrong

[sHuRuLuNi]

40 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

 

 

 

Personally, I have written off the pledge as a loss, I honestly doubt I will even be able to redeem the 4+ years of DAC I have and woudl not at all be surprised is NQ finds ways to apply DAC in game for other purposes to "bleed of" the massive amount of "free" gametime backers have. 
 

 

Then imagine me, as a Ruby Backer, with Lifetime Subscription, lol. I must be a huge thorn in their eye ... but I guess this is compensated through me building ships and NQ featuring them on their Social Media ...

 

Anyway - I sure would like to have the Backer Rewards ... I mean if we don't get them that would be bad, but if us not getting them (and I mean the physical rewards ...) will somehow help the game get better, then at least some good would have come from that whole thing ...

[Warlander]

Gotta love how that clown JC always wants to build some kind of civilization and never bothered to give us the tools to ever make one and expected us to do it all for him with nothing more than lego playschool houses and factories devoid of governmental systems, zoning, or any form of societal factors that glue a civ together.

 

Gotta love that hes an AI guy and the only AI he created was a market manipulator with no space npcs, aliens, creatures, etc.

 

What a clown good luck bro keep killing games brah.

[Novean-32184]

On 11/10/2021 at 3:34 PM, Warlander said:

Gotta love how that clown JC always wants to build some kind of civilization and never bothered to give us the tools to ever make one and expected us to do it all for him with nothing more than lego playschool houses and factories devoid of governmental systems, zoning, or any form of societal factors that glue a civ together

 

I have it on good authority that one of the straws that broke the camel's back was that JC actually had the brilliant idea to hire actual designers as "players" and let them build cities in game. For me, the big problem with JC has always been he only saw the end goal, he never considered or even thought about the way to get there and only found it's a tad more complex than he though once it was too late.

JC was famous for basicaly ignoring or brushing aside anything that counteerd his "vision" with the argument that it was just not understood. It seemsed he never once considered all these valid arguments and discussions might have merit and be actually beneficial for him and the progress of the game if he would not just "hear us" but would actually listen.

Unfortunately, from the last VLOG it would seem that mindset is still very much alive in NQ. They hear what we are saying but fail to listen and thus it is actually them who do not understand or get what is being said. The many instances in the VLOG where what NQ states they believe we are saying or what we are suggesting show the disconnect between what they hear and what we are telling them is quite massive. And IMO a big reason for that is that NQ _still_ refuses to actually engage with us in any meeaningful way.

[Creator]

Gotta agree Jake... 

[Warlander]

Its true they think that all these basic broke systems somehow form a game loop when it barely scratches the surface of MMOs 20+ years old and its somehow going to be fun with no meaningful content.

 

Ignorance is ingraned into the culture of NQ at this point and it will never change with actually building a game worth playing rather then un-developing the game they mad taking away large chunchs of gamplay out and chasing their tail constantly nerfing whats left and adding as much tedium as they can muster.

 

I dont know who that stoner chick was in the vids who had nothing meaningful to day that wasnt about exclusively her. The rest of the devs just seem to be stuck in a mindset of defeat and trying to figure out how to break the news that they killed our puppy or something and trying to distract us with a bag of M&Ms ore but we can only have like 10%of the bag.

 

Its not our fault they are all dead set on a dead vision of a game the first pitched and JC ran into the ground. 

 

The biggest slap in the face was their heads in the sand saying people love this garbage and the reception was overwhelmingly positive and out of the other side of that stoner chicks mouth shes like I love how people keep telling me to die in a fire in such inventive ways while they all completely glossed over the Blue Whale in the room with their chicken and scrambled egg paradoxal idiocy that is the real fundamental issue that keeps neutering everything I used to find fun in this game.

[Creator]

Sadly I am out of likes for the day Warlander... so I am now forced to reply... just to let you know how much I +1 your post!

Also JC is busy picking his nose... since the thread OP was asking...

Also: I super appreciate the support team... Rubicon and Nicodermus... those guys get it... good people, very helpful, probably cause they see the impact every day. I wish the development team though weren't as disconnected, and oblivious as they are.

[Warlander]

Im not on here for clout. 

 

I cant think if a single MMO that ever lived up to the hypeman who pitched it and the cake came out the same flavor as the instructions on the other side. Just played way to many MMOs since DU to see where this goes. If you have played UO, EQ/WoW, Shadowbane, SWG and few other games you have likely seen all this industry has to offer as far as system mechanics and how thing should be.

 

Im not here throwing out baseless suggestions or comments as much as I want to save this game from the devs. I have seen every permiation of mechics and know what works and what is actually fun that does not end up in monitization, cash shows, or developing their fluff shop until it turns into some kind of Lootbox p2w reverse job you pay for.

 

It used to be Sub based games lived or died by actual legit content and not this permabeta shallow content approach they call a game these days. 

 

This game is pretty much all a script at this point since 90% of the game plays itself and still I can do less and less in game each patch. Until they either kill scripts killing bandwith and skill or make it so that you need to pay them to actually make it a feature in the game rather than some shadowband secret elitist monoply and they control whats going on in their own game or focus on giving us actual tools to build a civ this thing is a pipe dream of lego playschool fantasy.

[Novean-32184]

20 hours ago, Warlander said:

Its true they think that all these basic broke systems somehow form a game loop when it barely scratches the surface of MMOs 20+ years old and its somehow going to be fun with no meaningful content.

 

The problem seems to be that NQ does not (want to) see the opportunities..
They have asteroids, sure.. 

 

 

They could have had their version of data and relic sites, locations where players can find metarial and tools to be able to create things like machines that can analyse components and create .. blueprints. Blueprints which can then be eiher used (in indusry) or sold..

Very simple concept, not hard to implement provided your core game is designed and set up to accommodate it and it drives engagement with game on many levels without the need to introduce NPCs. You can build the existence of these sites into the lore.

 

Thes thinsg are not hard to conceive, if you have the cerative mind to do so, and not hard to do as they are passive sites, pretty much like asteroids are. 

NQ has a big shiny example they look up to and clearly take cues from, yet they seem to lack even the most basic understanding of what makes their example tick, which is actually not the top level stuff, it is the more intricate and "under the surface" mechanics that do.

I'm currently involved with another MMO which is in early stages and their solution is you buy or loot something, pay some money and assign some energy to research these items which in the process are lost but the result is.. a blueprint which can then be used on a crafting station to build that item as much as you like. Simple but very effective.

Also, NQ just loves to overthink and over complicate things, they did with industry and frankly they are now doing it with mining. They are a bunch of nerds who seem incapable of realizing that their playerbase to alarge extent are not and just want o have fun. Problem is what NQ thinks is fun is really nerd stuff fun and not all that exciting for the main potential player audience they are in need of attracting.

Mini games are fine, but their shiny example just uses simple stuff like a minesweeper variant with some fun tricks and a good selection of options to make the game eeasier as you gain experience..

As you said, there is MMO's where the devs have solved all these problems many, many years ago, wel lbefore NQ even existed. Why does NQ think they must go and reinvent the wheel time and time again.

 

 

 

[Warlander]

33 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

 

The problem seems to be that NQ doe snot (want to) see the opportunities..
They have asteroids, sure.. 

 

 

They could have had their version of data and relic sites, locations where players can find metarial and tools to be able to create things like machines that can analyse components and create .. blueprints. Blueprints which can then be eiher used (in indusry) or sold..

Very simple concept, not hard to implement provided your core game is designed and set up to accommodate it and it drives engagement with game on many levels without the need to introduce NPCs. You can build the existence of these sites into the lore.

 

Thes thinsg are not hard to conceive, if you have the cerative mind to do so, and not hard to do as they are passive sites, pretty much like asteroids are. 

NQ has a big shiny example they look up to and clearly take cues from, yet they seem to lack even the most basic understanding of what makes their example tick, which is actually not the top level stuff, it is the more intricate and "under the surface" mechanics that do.

I'm currently involved with another MMO which is in early stages and their solution is you buy or loot something, pay some money and assign some energy to research these items which in the process are lost but the result is.. a blueprint which can then be used on a crafting station to buidl that item as much as you like. Simple but very effective.

Also, NQ just loves to overthink and over complicate things, they did with industry and frankly they are now doing it with mining. They are a bunch of nerds who seem incapable of realizing that their playerbase to alarge extent are not and just want o have fun. Problem is what NQ thinks is fun is really nerd stuff fun and not all that exciting for the main potential player audience they are in need of attracting.

Mini games are fine, but their shiny example just uses simple stuff like a minesweeper variant with some fun tricks and a good selection of options to make the game eeasier as you gain experience..

As you said, there is MMO's where the devs have solved all these problems many, many years ago, wel lbefore NQ even existed. Why does NQ think they must go and reinvent the wheel time and time again.

 

 

 

They can try to re-invent the wheel all they want and these problems have all been solved long ago by better games and you would hope that NQ would learn form all the mistakes that were made over the years but its like watching a caveman chiseling out the wheel when we forgot wheels supposedly in like the year 2700.

 

I dont blame them for their stupidity. I dont blame them for their blind vision of some dead horse vision they had years ago. I do blame them for their blind faith that what they think is right is flying directly into the sun thinking everything is sunny on the other side of the one way train wreck they cant comprehend is coming.

 

Maybe they just believe we will keep paying their moragages and the staus quo of reduction of gameplay is going to get them to the finish line but im not DU curious and I cant help but tell every gamer I know to steer clear of this game at this point.l As much as they think that new players are going to be curious their street rep proceeds their broken vision.

[Novean-32184]

12 hours ago, Warlander said:

I dont blame them for their stupidity. I dont blame them for their blind vision of some dead horse vision they had years ago. I do blame them for their blind faith that what they think is right is flying directly into the sun thinking everything is sunny on the other side of the one way train wreck they cant comprehend is coming.

 

I do blame them, not because of some form of entitlement as I backed the project but because I believe they are losing out on a massive opportunity in building a game with so much potential and by doing so denying me the opportunity to play it.

I do not care about the money I spent, I considered that gone the moment I paid as I always do when I back or buy games in general. I was so looking forward to them making this game a reality and bringing the different attitude and openness they said they would during Kickstarter and upto the moment they opened up pre-alpha.

I guess I'm just massively dissapointed NQ never was able to either deliver on the promise or take ownership of that and adjust their vision to what was possible. Now it's all about saving money to stay alive and that is never a good basis to design a game.

As the saying goes; A delayed game may get good, a rushed game never will. And NQ is and has been rushing form patch to patch trying to make things work, only to find they are amassing technical debt as they go.

[CptLoRes]

19 hours ago, Warlander said:

Its true they think that all these basic broke systems somehow form a game loop when it barely scratches the surface of MMOs 20+ years old and its somehow going to be fun with no meaningful content.

DU was supposed to be different from a traditional MMO, in that NQ would make the tools and the community would use those tools to make the content/game loop.

 

By itself not a bad idea, but the tools never got made so... here we are.

 

 

[Zarcata]

These mining units would certainly have had potential and would remove the need for many players to mine ore.

Now, however, the mining compulsion is being replaced by another compulsion. Once, I now have to get these units, then constantly maintain them through a "mini-game" and at the same time pay unjustified taxes.
 

The "mini-game" alone reminds me of WoW back then, with the garrison and the cursed "browser table" there. Hyped by the developers and hated by the players. It will certainly be the same in DualUniverse if you have to play this "mini-game" all the time.

 

I myself have no interest in destroying through PvP. I'm only here because it was advertised to me at the time as a civilisation-building game. I wanted to build great buildings, cities and space stations. I also like building with Lego in my old age and thought it was a great idea to be able to live out creativity in the game. 

 

In the meantime, however, more and more restrictions are coming into play that give me loud prohibitio

ns or limits on how I have to play. I understand that it's an alpha/beta, it's a bit strange that you still have to pay for it as a subscription. I have also adapted several times, but I am slowly reaching a point where it is no longer fun and I can no longer recognise this game as it was once intended.