Leaving the game for a good while (Read this before buying)

[Emptiness]

15 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

My point is that the profit you outline in that thread, could have been four times more, if you had used that ore and sold products to players.

Not really. Did you watch the industry and container markets in early October? For a while, container Ls were at or slightly below bot buy order prices (so that one could buy from market and flip to a bot order and make a small profit). Some other T1 elements were in the same situation. It's only steel voxels driving ore prices up that have driven other element prices back up, as well, beyond the "sell to bot order, make more profit than selling to players" threshold.

[Hiturn]

2 hours ago, Moosegun said:

Yeah but the difference is that you are selling your ore at just above cost, whilst I am selling my elements to players at just below bot SELL price, which is XXX% higher margin. 

So I can sell at L Atmos for 450k, when the bots buy them for 115k.

Yes it takes some time but it is ZERO risk to sell elements (I have sold pretty much every type of item), you just need to spread your wares.  This is my point though, NQ should just remove your easy option and inform you of the other option - which is to actually trade with players.

I am not sure what L atmos are you talking about, I suppose you talking about basic atmospheric engines L .Bots buy L Atmos at 80k and they sell at 500k . I sell  L atmos (T1 and T2) and if I place the  T1s at 200k they wont get sold.I am selling them at 110-130k depending on what market/planet.

[Moosegun]

4 minutes ago, Hiturn said:

I am not sure what L atmos are you talking about, I suppose you talking about basic atmospheric engines L .Bots buy L Atmos at 80k and they sell at 500k . I sell  L atmos (T1 and T2) and if I place the the T1 at 200k they wont get sold.I am selling them at 110-130k depending on what market/planet.

I place mine at 450k and they do get sold, sorry but there you go, that is my point.  Not everyone shops around, some people buy from the closet location.  I buy your engines for 110k and fly them to Alioth 13 or somewhere and sell them for 480k lol........ at some point more people might cotton on to it.

I have sold plenty of l atmos engines around the districts at max price, seriously, go to market 6 (or another busy market) buy all the cheap stuff and fly it elsewhere.  Then come back to me......

I love posting stuff like this, every now and then I get someone who stops arguing enough to actually understand what I am saying, then they message me a few days later telling me it is a game changer.

[Emptiness]

I suppose my mistake is assuming all buyers will choose the most efficient product when they may often choose to pay a premium to get everything at one stop.

[Moosegun]

3 minutes ago, Emptiness said:

I suppose my mistake is assuming all buyers will choose the most efficient product when they may often choose to pay a premium to get everything at one stop.

One of the long list of reasons why people dont buy the cheapest

- the instant buy button
- people are buying loads of things and as you say, only want to stop once
- people are lazy and quanta is easy

For months I have been telling people this and noone really listens, if you are put off from trying to sell stuff because you are looking at the cheapest other players are selling at in ANY market, you are playing it wrong, sorry.  and people like me are buying your stuff in bulk, moving it and tripling our money....... or just selling stuff noone else does as just below bots prices.

[Hiturn]

14 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

I place mine at 450k and they do get sold, sorry but there you go, that is my point.  Not everyone shops around, some people buy from the closet location.  I buy your engines for 110k and fly them to Alioth 13 or somewhere and sell them for 480k lol........ at some point more people might cotton on to it.

I have sold plenty of l atmos engines around the districts at max price, seriously, go to market 6 (or another busy market) buy all the cheap stuff and fly it elsewhere.  Then come back to me......

I love posting stuff like this, every now and then I get someone who stops arguing enough to actually understand what I am saying, then they message me a few days later telling me it is a game changer.

Well, I bring stuff from Thades 1 where I "live" to Allioth districts time to time.Here is a different world. There aren't that many newbies buying overpriced stuff.People wont buy 340k T2 atmos ->300 or 290 or they aren't getting sold and I will start stockpilling them.

If I go higher than 40-60% cut on some products they dont sell because people craft them themselves as they should.

[Moosegun]

Just now, Hiturn said:

Well I bring stuff from Thades 1 where I "live" to Allioth time to time.Here is a different world. There aren't that many newbies buying overpriced stuff.People wont buy 340k T2 ->300 or 290 or they aren't getting sold and I will start stockpilling them.

If I go higher than 40-60% cut on some products they dont sell because people craft them themselves as they should.

Again will have to disagree, if you sell the right stuff on other planets it sells, I am selling things like terri capture units and containers at huge markups, and engines and stuff.  We have bases on several planets and a lot of people selling out there, things are quieter of course, so product choice is important, industry always does well for us on other planets.  The key thing is not to be lazy, 100 product on 10 markets, is a LOT better than 100 on 1.

[Hiturn]

8 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

Again will have to disagree, if you sell the right stuff on other planets it sells, I am selling things like terri capture units and containers at huge markups, and engines and stuff.  We have bases on several planets and a lot of people selling out there, things are quieter of course, so product choice is important, industry always does well for us on other planets.  The key thing is not to be lazy, 100 product on 10 markets, is a LOT better than 100 on 1.

 

How many people are you with? because I am doing this by myself and I don't have time to do that.When I go to other planets I fll a market with what I produce (which is almost everything essential with a dedicated industry line )and they sell but never tested the waters cause the market interface is really bad as you have larger operations 300-400 sell orders are too many to handle with the current interface .

[Anomaly]

9 hours ago, Moosegun said:

TBH, I have seen far more 'nasty' from you than anything NQ have posted but you probably dont hold yourself to the same account........

If you are speaking of the general tone of my posts then I will agree with you. The NQ devs spoke in a very professional manner when they permabanned players for exploiting a RDMS mistake the devs tell players they are responsible for. I would have never considered punishing players for my mistake but I don't hold myself to the same account. 

[Moosegun]

2 hours ago, Anomaly said:

If you are speaking of the general tone of my posts then I will agree with you. The NQ devs spoke in a very professional manner when they permabanned players for exploiting a RDMS mistake the devs tell players they are responsible for. I would have never considered punishing players for my mistake but I don't hold myself to the same account. 

Ahhhh so you are stating your opinions as fact, the devs are 'nasty' because you do not agree with something they have done, not for an actual valid reason.  For what it is worth, I and MANY others (you can tell that from the massive backlash on the videos on the subject) agreed with NQ on that one. 

[Nightranger]

3 hours ago, Moosegun said:

Ahhhh so you are stating your opinions as fact, the devs are 'nasty' because you do not agree with something they have done, not for an actual valid reason.  For what it is worth, I and MANY others (you can tell that from the massive backlash on the videos on the subject) agreed with NQ on that one. 

He hasn't once portrayed his opinion as facts, He expressed how he felt based from information out there, and that is even more clear in his last post, If you wish to troll or shitpost particular people because there opinions differ, then please go to reddit or something and stop nit-picking on this thread, and trying to cause drama, because someone has an opposite opinion to yourself.

Everyone who posts, has an entitlement to their own opinion without the fear or need of having some idiot single them out and attempt to put them down, that sir, is called bullying, so go take a good hard look in the mirror at yourself and decide what kind of person you wish to be.

I appreciate and values everyones opinion here, even those that conflict with mine, I don't take them as "facts", as in black and white, cold hard facts, but if you want to bring "facts" into it, then everyone here is posting "facts" based from their own experiences within the game.

Now, bringing it back on-topic, I will try the game again, however It won't be for a few months, In it's current state it's playable, but not enjoyable - I feel the devs have over-looked the basic principles of a game, to have enough content that is enjoyable and rewarding. The UI/UX is a huge put down for me, someone who has done a 4hr video episode with 2 months experience could do a better job (No joke).... The current gameplay doesn't really offer any risk/reward or game/time/reward... Which is fundamental to keeping players in a game.

The game currnetly feels like a poorly implemented rip off of, Space Engineers/EvE Online - Except both are far more advanced with better UI/UX. If DU really want to stand out and break off from this, they have to do something different, and as an end user, I don't see anything different, other than the feel of playing a windows 98 game (Extremely basic).

We want rotating/moving parts... So we can build our own gates for example, Satelite dishes etc... Yes it is "Possible" but not without deploying dynamic cores and a ton of lua scripting - Which puts a lot of the possibilities of the game behind an "Invisible wall" because there isn't even an API or documentation of the functions with the scripting.

The game has been rushed, and it is very apparant that it is being rushed - Would I prefer it to be a "Hidden development game" - Not sure, would I have liked them to fine tune it and polish it before making it "Public" yes - because currently a lot of the core gameplay is broken, and for a beta, the core gameplay should not be broken....

[XKentX]

4 hours ago, Moosegun said:

Ahhhh so you are stating your opinions as fact, the devs are 'nasty' because you do not agree with something they have done, not for an actual valid reason.  For what it is worth, I and MANY others (you can tell that from the massive backlash on the videos on the subject) agreed with NQ on that one. 

Most of the community does not support banning of those players. The didn't exploit anything. They just pressed B and played a game.

[JohnnyTazer]

17 hours ago, Emptiness said:

I suppose my mistake is assuming all buyers will choose the most efficient product when they may often choose to pay a premium to get everything at one stop.

A lot of us buy almost 99% of the stuff off market and flying around to 8 different markets to get what I need sucks ass. So yes I often pay bigger when I could fly to a different one. Another thing of note, when player markets come, whoever fully stocks a space station will make good money. I'd gladly pay a 15% markup to not have to deal with alioth, and buy everything in 1 stop so I can redeploy a pvp loss. Time is a valuable resource. 

[Moosegun]

22 hours ago, Nightranger said:

He hasn't once portrayed his opinion as facts, He expressed how he felt based from information out there, and that is even more clear in his last post, If you wish to troll or shitpost particular people because there opinions differ, then please go to reddit or something and stop nit-picking on this thread, and trying to cause drama, because someone has an opposite opinion to yourself.

Everyone who posts, has an entitlement to their own opinion without the fear or need of having some idiot single them out and attempt to put them down, that sir, is called bullying, so go take a good hard look in the mirror at yourself and decide what kind of person you wish to be.

lol, calm down we have a bit of history that is all, just having a wind up.  He doesnt like NQ because he doesnt agree with some bans given out, which is an opinion, so to portray the whole company as somehow shandy, for purely something which is his opinion, is wrong.   

22 hours ago, XKentX said:

Most of the community does not support banning of those players. The didn't exploit anything. They just pressed B and played a game.

If MOST of the community did not support the ban then why did most of the support videos that were posted get taken down due to dislikes and unsubs?  The feedback they got was dreadful.  Again, you have no idea what the majority of the community felt, stop making stuff up.

[Underhook]

Interesting discussion.

Regarding the OP's post:  I'm still enjoying the game but can understand the way you feel.  My general feeling is that the game is still in an Alpha state.  Since there is apparently not going to be any server wipe it means that the mistakes made will take a long time to iron out.  My only issue is ....... do I want to keep paying a monthly fee whilst waiting for the game to develop.

[sHuRuLuNi]

3 hours ago, Underhook said:

My only issue is ....... do I want to keep paying a monthly fee whilst waiting for the game to develop.

 

That is the idea ... they are being financed by subs to develop the game. If no one pays subs, they will have no money to develop it.

 

They should have basically changed the name of "Beta" to "Early Access" - this way everyone would know that they are paying for the actual development of the game and we would not have remarks of the kind "why should I pay for a beta!??".

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by sHuRuLuNi
because I can

[Nightranger]

3 hours ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

 

That is the idea ... they are being financed by subs to develop the game. If no one pays subs, they will have no money to develop it.

 

They should have basically changed the name of "Beta" to "Early Access" - this way everyone would know that they are paying for the actual development of the game and we would not have remarks of the kind "why should I pay for a beta!??".

 

Well, In short - This is what the kickstarter was for really... To pay for the early access.... Just short of £500k was raised for the development, In the grand scheme of things, It's not a great deal, however should be more than enough to accomplish what they have so far, and a decent UI/UX... Instead it feels kind of wasted, on the bare bare bones of what could have been a hugely impressive and popular game, Instead I feel it was stretched too much, with not enough care and attention put into it.

Sure the building side is good, Once you get the hang of it, but the PvP side is pure burnt toast, The economy is completely pointless, Trading is meh, The overall navigation of everything is pretty dire and easily confusing, The implementation of the RDMS system, is poor... 

My personal opinion, is that NQ have rushed far far too much, and not paid enough attention to the important details - I.E User experience (UX) and User Interface (UI) instead keeping a game set hundreds of years in the future, all the way back to windows 95....

While I appreciate the work they do, I do somewhat feel that it's a cash cow, I would consider paying a sub if the whole UI/UX got updated, and was more up-to date (Hold one button to open a wheel to select the tool you need, not this whole drag/drop and fill your inventory screen up with stuff) - Better colours, Better contrast, Futuristic looking designs, not huge square box modals with as much information crammed in as humanly possible... Although that would be one step in the right direction for this game, I still can't help but feel that this won't become a thing, the devs will continue pursuing what they want to achieve, money will eventually dry out, because there isn't enough stuff to keep people playing, there isn't any risk/reward - There isn't an economy, It isn't a "Open canvass to do what you like with", because there are too many factors affecting that (NQ TP requests/Fixing... Bugs, Crashes, etc...)

As I said, I'll come back in a few months or so... See if it's still alive... Although I can say this - Alot of people are waiting for this next update, and if that fails, well a lot of people will be leaving, regardless of NQ begging people to come back, or showcasing videos of other people to try and show that people can "Laugh"... at some stuff...
 

[XRacerX]

I will say it again There is NO WAY i would pay money to play this so-called beta! NQ if you want my money you are going to have to do better than this. You got me the first time by calling it a beta THAT wont happen again. If you are still around in a year Ill see you then......maybe!

[GraXXoR]

On 11/27/2020 at 4:17 AM, XRacerX said:

I will say it again There is NO WAY i would pay money to play this so-called beta! NQ if you want my money you are going to have to do better than this. You got me the first time by calling it a beta THAT wont happen again. If you are still around in a year Ill see you then......maybe!

Some people think this "doing better" will involve another wipe....
 

But what I want  to know is, how the heck is NQ going to do another reboot/reset/wipe with actual paying subscribers.... Will they reset the clock on those subscribers' clocks... so that if a subscriber has paid for half a year, they'll get six months playtime dated from the final wipe?

I also don't think I, who doesn't even have to pay a sub yet, would survive another wipe, TBH.

So I don't see how they can really fix things other than patching the patch patches and duck taping the mechanics and broken bits together.

[Warlander]

Honestly I really hope they put in a Trader Talent Tree at some point for those who want to play as traders to buy/sell and transport resources from the market to work into a talent tree which give better tax rates by planet or by item so you can actually make money in the market or market capacity for what you can list.

 

When the Destructive Element system goes live it will be nice to make a buck for a while since items will certainly move. But as resources become more scarce it will take longer and longer to find the resources so the inflation will continue to rise vs the oversaturation we have no on the market. Orgs will need to keep their fleets maintained so a lot of those items which would have been added to the market will now be required to be stockpiled for losses incurred or lengthening time it takes to get the resources in the first place until you cant find them in any form of acceptable timeframes. Once that cycle starts or PvPers can really cause a lot of damage that will compound the issue. The district markets will stay relatively the same where you are essentially undercutting yourself to make marginal gains or holding out in case there are influxes in people buying but the costs of gaining the mats, producing the items, and selling the items will hit hyper inflation at some point.

 

SO it all depends of NQ has scripts for both shorting the market or for strangling the market when the inflation hits. If the system itself if buying items and taking them out of the game on both end but taking them out of the system it will further cause more inflation if those items are just taken out of the game. Especially if you wait out the inflation and drop a ton of items into the market and it sees you as trying to short it.

 

If your aim is to make money in the market just sit tight for the Destructive Element System. It wont be worth making anything or gathering the resources unless you are market scripting the desperate people who will be undercutting themselves for survival just to keep making items. Youll make a killing as a middle man, just be patient. Hoard everything you can now it will be worth a lot more then it is currently in the future.