Jump to content
Aaron Cain

How to negate the negative effects of only building in the box

build outside the box with basic materials after reading this post?  

23 members have voted

  1. 1. build outside the box with basic materials after reading this post?

    • yes
      14
    • no
      9


Recommended Posts

Hi All

I want to discuss an idea to maybe counter a problem  that will prohibit us from building massive projects.

Monorails, bridges, infrastructure, roads, anything not needing complex elements but only the basics and voxels.

 

The problem is we are now limited to build in a box that is limited by core size. If we want to build civilization including roads, bridges and everything we will need to place a massive amount of cores.

 

What i want to propose is a system where you can build outside a core with basic materials. The startpoint of the build must be in a core but the build itself may be outside it. rights management stops outside the core and anything build outside the core is regulated on territory level. So if you have a TU or STU in place, the structure is relative safe, If you do not have these, anyone can delete or destroy your structure. this is a necessity with the system, cores are regulated by rights and so are territories so anything build Outside a core is under territory rules, anything build with no TU or STU is free for all.

 

However, this way we are able to build large structures like roads and bridges and monorails that would normally need a lot of cores. Limitation would be that these builds can only be build out of basic materials and voxels and anything would have no user rights on it although protected by TU or STU

 

This system would make it possible to make roads to and from different cities or market places and between cores, creativity could be used to build bridges across water masses for creativity and RP, This way we could also build structures like space elevators or monorails or later Dyson spheres, all for creativity and the greater good of the community.

 

This is also why i think it is needed, the greater good of the community. With this we will need to work together if we want things to be build, if org a and b want a monorail or bridge connection between their cities they will need to build together and secure it together, whether by force or by combined TU coverage.

Also for federations, massive organizations, alliances and anyone who wants to connect this is probably the only way to build mass infrastructure without the need of thousands of cores polluting the lands and all the lagg induced by the right management on those cores.

 

Please add your ideas and remarks on why yes or why no. technically this should be possible reasons behind that are NDA, sorry.

 

Greetzz Aaron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a better idea might be to be able to adjust the build box. If you want to build a road you can make the build box 1 meter tall and however wide and long to maintain the same overall build size. You'll still have to build multiple cores but it will be far less. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This would solve a problem but would limit you aswell, unless we get ultra large cores. But the idea is to not needing pricy cores and still be able to build infrastructure, If your plan would be combined with a sort of "B" core that limits you to only a set of elements but is alot cheaper to produce i would agree.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When outside a STU/TU that would indeed be the risk :) But its a nice feature to have, if you want to build in an unsafe zone face the consequences or we will see half torn bridges, i would like to see that indeed.

It adds to the game, strategically placed objects will need protection and there is a chance to sabotage others. Or add to the structure, technically when you can steal you can also add, if you have a road close to your city you can add an extra fork to come your way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do question the need for roads when everyone is flying...and without any wheels 😂.  I dont think were going to get to build outside the box, but the box may get bigger/different

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not only roads, anyone planning to build a space elevator or something alike will need to be able to build outside a box, or the Dyson sphere people, they will also need to do that.  there are alot of possibilities totally not related to roads that would become possible with this. I believe the creativity of everyone would be stimulated by being able to do this, adding the safety of doing this while under protection of a territorial Unit would even bring more people in as that would semi-guarantee safety for your space elevator upto space as long as nobody takes down the TU. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what you're saying is that I could make a voxel minefield around my base that all the attackers would crash and burn in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice idea Serula, 

I would say, give creaters a possibility to be creative, if a minefield is what they come up with why not :) I wanted to type more but thats NDA but there are already ways you can do that now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did not vote, because I am not sure whether my response would be considered a yes or a no.

 

This idea is based on my understanding of why cores exist, so it may not be valid if I am wrong about that.  As I understand it, a core creates a grid in which voxels are placed.  Dynamic constructs obviously need their own grid, so they can move, but why do we have static cores?  The planets are also made of voxels, so it seems we should be able to build there without a core, but I believe they use a grid that is spaced much more widely than the one for constructs.  A denser grid allows constructs to be more detailed, but means the voxel data will require more space, since it must allow larger numbers.  Making the grid extend farther also requires larger numbers.  To build outside the current limits of cores, the grid would need to be extended, so technically it would have the same effect as using a larger core.

 

My suggestion would be to continue to limit construct by core size, but provide better tools for manipulating the planet voxels.  With the right tools, I believe adequate for most of these really large projects.  As an example, for roads there could be a paving tool.  With this tool, we could select two points on the ground and they would be connected with a surface that was relatively smooth but still generally followed the contours of the land.  There could be options to control how closely if followed the contours and how wide the surface was.  It could also replace the surface with a different material.  A tool like this would make it easier to build roads, but the result would still use the current data structures.

 

While the paving tool would be suited specifically for roads, there could also be general purpose tools.  These could be like the ones we use for building constructs, but outside cores they would only manipulate planet voxels with their current resolution.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me it sounds a bit convoluted for such novelties. Anything practical can be done with cores assuming they can be aligned and have relatively seamless transitions between them. Monorails, long bridges, space elevators, dyson spheres: these things are edge of DU scope at best if not outside of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/12/2019 at 6:04 PM, Serula said:

So what you're saying is that I could make a voxel minefield around my base that all the attackers would crash and burn in? 

But then you would not be able to enter your own base?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MaltoSigma said:

But then you would not be able to enter your own base?

Ofc you can enter, you just need to be smart about how to lay out that minefield. Looking forward to ppl crash and burn when flying too low xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Lethys said:

Ofc you can enter, you just need to be smart about how to lay out that minefield. Looking forward to ppl crash and burn when flying too low xD

Can voxels just float in the air?

How about requiring voxels outside of cores to be connected to the ground and maybe give them a maximum height for each material?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MaltoSigma said:

Can voxels just float in the air?

How about requiring voxels outside of cores to be connected to the ground and maybe give them a maximum height for each material?

they said that due to server limitations, voxels can float (if you dig the whole base of a mountain for example)

 

so yes, if that's still the case, you can create a minefield that way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lethys said:

they said that due to server limitations, voxels can float (if you dig the whole base of a mountain for example)

 

so yes, if that's still the case, you can create a minefield that way

and if we all just "promise" not to build a frickin minefield? :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, MaltoSigma said:

and if we all just "promise" not to build a frickin minefield? :D

I promise I won't. Come visit me any time - but remember: real men always fly with full throttle...... xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Lethys said:

I promise I won't. Come visit me any time - but remember: real men always fly with full throttle...... xD

I'm sensing a trap. And I only fly full gas!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my point of view it would be nice to be able to build without a core from only basic materials, though such buildings should have no ownership. So anyone else is able to destroy them or build on top without any penalties. But I don't like the idea of extending buildings with core outside their size limits and this adds another way to exploit such mechanic in pvp - you build enormous layers of armor that is not directly counted as part of your structure.

 

But maybe it's much better just to have some kind of 'ground flattening tool' for making roads or landing fields. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only time you would need or want roads and bridges would be where poeple are in smaller vehicles or walking, most likely in a city. Otherwise poeple would only be walking in the game when mining/scanning. As far as making them within a city I would hope there is a "city core" that would allow you to build and link constructs that are within its sphere of influence. You would have bridge constructs, road constructs and building constructs etc... As far as flattening it you can do it by hand or maybe that "city core" slowly flattens area over a day or so? From my understanding the purpose or cores is mostly an interactive limiter. You just need a larger limiter that doesn't require physical contact for a city/public works. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't it possible to alter voxels outside cores' areas. I at least remember seeing videos of DU where they just plop down and remove voxels without a core in sight (removing is kind of important for mining). Has that changed or is there some other reason people couldn't use that to make roads or bridges?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Miamato said:

But I don't like the idea of extending buildings with core outside their size limits and this adds another way to exploit such mechanic in pvp - you build enormous layers of armor that is not directly counted as part of your structure.

Moreover, in avatar VS avatar fight, it may become an "Fortnite" gameplay wich could ruined the aspect of a landscape really fast...

Or you could by a really nice road, and someone may just randomly  decide to mine it...

It's a nice idea, but difficult to manage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/5/2019 at 2:36 AM, Aaron Cain said:

Hi All

I want to discuss an idea to maybe counter a problem  that will prohibit us from building massive projects.

Monorails, bridges, infrastructure, roads, anything not needing complex elements but only the basics and voxels.

 

The problem is we are now limited to build in a box that is limited by core size. If we want to build civilization including roads, bridges and everything we will need to place a massive amount of cores.

 

What i want to propose is a system where you can build outside a core with basic materials. The startpoint of the build must be in a core but the build itself may be outside it. rights management stops outside the core and anything build outside the core is regulated on territory level. So if you have a TU or STU in place, the structure is relative safe, If you do not have these, anyone can delete or destroy your structure. this is a necessity with the system, cores are regulated by rights and so are territories so anything build Outside a core is under territory rules, anything build with no TU or STU is free for all.

 

However, this way we are able to build large structures like roads and bridges and monorails that would normally need a lot of cores. Limitation would be that these builds can only be build out of basic materials and voxels and anything would have no user rights on it although protected by TU or STU

 

This system would make it possible to make roads to and from different cities or market places and between cores, creativity could be used to build bridges across water masses for creativity and RP, This way we could also build structures like space elevators or monorails or later Dyson spheres, all for creativity and the greater good of the community.

 

This is also why i think it is needed, the greater good of the community. With this we will need to work together if we want things to be build, if org a and b want a monorail or bridge connection between their cities they will need to build together and secure it together, whether by force or by combined TU coverage.

Also for federations, massive organizations, alliances and anyone who wants to connect this is probably the only way to build mass infrastructure without the need of thousands of cores polluting the lands and all the lagg induced by the right management on those cores.

 

Please add your ideas and remarks on why yes or why no. technically this should be possible reasons behind that are NDA, sorry.

 

Greetzz Aaron

I get why you want to do this, but we also have to understand the poor developers and pity the servers and computers that would have to process such massive player-built, and most likely intricate, areas and constructs. No game has ever really been able to do this, and I don't want us to get caught up trying to do this and ending up having to wait a ridiculous amount of time before the game comes out. 

 

It's just my opinion though, I don't really know all that much about this particular topic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Caesares said:

I get why you want to do this, but we also have to understand the poor developers and pity the servers and computers that would have to process such massive player-built, and most likely intricate, areas and constructs.

Isn't it just the same quantity of voxels, but arrange in a different configuration ? So the technology they put in place should work too, no matter if it's "natural" element or construct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×