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Serula

When the starting planet Alioth is depleted

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Over time the starting planet Alioth wil have fewer and fewer resources available due to mining. And even before that happens it will become progressivly harder to find anything left in the ground. It seems like an undesireable scenario for the starting player. Even early on this may become problematic if the starting player needs to travel far away without transport just to be able to make money. I don't know if this has been mentioned before or how real this scenario is but what would be the best solution for this?

 

1. Some basic resource regeneration of cheap resources only.

2. Players "probably" will provide free services and or resources?

3. Relocation of the ark ship.

4. A free starter ship that can go into space.

5. Organisations will probably line up near the ark to welcome new players into their ranks and get them started.

 

Some solutions are obviously not solutions but rather assumptions of player behavior. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

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It has been brought up before. NQ hasn't declared anything final. I don't think options 3 and 4 make good gameplay sense. I could see regenerated resources only in the safe zone be a thing. Not sure how that would work though, there are a lot of things to consider.

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Yes I know they are not really solutions they are more like brain farts :) Anyway here is another. 

 

What if near the ark there would be a vulcano that spans one or several hexes and cannot be claimed by anyone or build upon. The vulcano will keep generating more cheap resources over time.

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15 minutes ago, Sander496 said:

What if near the ark there would be a vulcano that spans one or several hexes and cannot be claimed by anyone or build upon. The vulcano will keep generating more cheap resources over time.

"Over time" is just another word for "24/7 gamers will camp it" in an MMO.

 

I think that issue (if it even is one) can be adressed in beta when lots of ppl join and servers are reset 

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What everyone seems to overlook is that he whole idea of DU is that it will build communities and civilisation. As time progresses it will become less and less needed to mine Alioth as people will have established trade routes, will have come up with solutions to find and mine resources in less invasive ways and overall the ecosystem and economy will be at a point where a new player will not need to start with mining to get his first ship.

 

He or she can join a company excavating ores on other planets for a salary, taking the existing transport routes and ships to and from there. As the game progresses the needs and options for new players will change and evolve. In fact I believe that 2-3 years after release life for a new player will be easier and there will be much more lucrative and 'easy' ways to find work and make money to buy a ship or materials to design your own.

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Having gamers camp the site doesn't have to be a problem. It seems to me there should be several requirements for such an area.

 

1. It should be a save area that is directly connected to a save area with a market so the newbies can't be lynched on their way to the market. (Though I believe at some point markets will disappear and only be player run, correct?)

2. Resources should spawn in fast enough for all players to be able to mine. So again, the resources should have a very low value. Just enough to be practical for new players.

3. It should not in any way be lucrative for veteran players in large corporations. So what would probably help with this is if the mined resource cannot be stored in containers but only in your inventory.

4. It should proabably be one specific resource only found at the vulcano for this specific scenario.

5. It should quickly prove to be more lucrative to mine actual resources in the ground.

 

I do feel like this is not a complete solution yet though.

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14 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

What everyone seems to overlook is that he whole idea of DU is that it will build communities and civilisation. As time progresses it will become less and less needed to mine Alioth as people will have established trade routes, will have come up with solutions to find and mine resources in less invasive ways and overall the ecosystem and economy will be at a point where a new player will not need to start with mining to get his first ship.

 

He or she can join a company excavating ores on other planets for a salary, taking the existing transport routes and ships to and from there. As the game progresses the needs and options for new players will change and evolve. In fact I believe that 2-3 years after release life for a new player will be easier and there will be much more lucrative and 'easy' ways to find work and make money to buy a ship or materials to design your own.

This all builds to the assumption that everyone will want to be in a corporation and will actually receive the needed support from that corporation or the community in order to get started. Two of my solutions were actually build on this assumption if you read the original post. So it's unfair to say that I didn't take the building of communities into account. I just don't think it's wise to hope that some potential problem will fix itself.

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English (deepl used)

 

 

Hello Sander496,

according to current history, everyone is at one point.

A different scenario would be that before landing thousands of rescue capsules were uncoupled from the ARK-ship and landed accordingly later and at other places than the main ship. This is useful to avoid endangering the whole crew during a crash landing. Thus all new players have the possibility to get their own excavation field.

 

German (original)

 

Quote

Hallo Sander496,

 

nach der momentanen Geschichte landen alle an einem Punkt.

Ein anders Scenario wäre, dass vor der Landung tausende von Rettungskapseln vom ARK-Schiff abgekoppelt wurden und entsprechend später und an anderen Stellen als das Hauptschiff landen. Dieses ist sinnvoll um bei einer Bruchlandung nicht die ganze Besatzung zu gefährden. Damit besteht für alle neuen Spieler die Möglichkeit ein eigenes Grabungsfeld zu erhalten.

 

 

Die Waldfee
 


 

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24 minutes ago, huschhusch said:

English (deepl used)

 

 

Hello Sander496,

according to current history, everyone is at one point.

A different scenario would be that before landing thousands of rescue capsules were uncoupled from the ARK-ship and landed accordingly later and at other places than the main ship. This is useful to avoid endangering the whole crew during a crash landing. Thus all new players have the possibility to get their own excavation field.

 

German (original)

 

 

Die Waldfee
 


 

Hi Huschhusch,

This could solve the problem for starting players to have to span large distances to get to resources. But this also introduces new problems. One of the most obvious is the distance to the market to sell the mined resources. Another is that the community will have a difficult time finding them should they choose to help starting players. No I do think new players should start in the same place so they can potentially get better support from the community.

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English (deepl used)

 

Hello Sander496,

In the rescue capsule can be a teleporter which is firmly connected with the ARK-ship.

 

 

German (original)

 

 

Quote

 

Hallo Sander496,

 

In der Rettungskapsel kann ja ein Teleporter sein der fest mit den ARK-Schiff verbunden ist.

 

 

 

Die Waldfee

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8 minutes ago, huschhusch said:

English (deepl used)

 

Hello Sander496,

In the rescue capsule can be a teleporter which is firmly connected with the ARK-ship.

 

 

German (original)

 

 

 

Die Waldfee

So if there are 30.000 players the landscape of Alioth will be covered in rescue capsules with teleporters to the ark ship? That sounds like a highly undesireable situation. Plus I believe NQ wants to refrain from using teleportation devices. 

 

I think the simplest solution right now, and not nesessarily the best, would be to use mechanics that are already in place. Regenerate resources around the ark ship. But only in territories that cannot be claimed and thus cannot be build on so regeneration can be done without compromising someones build. The problem here is the size of the area needed to support all new players vs the travel distance needed to claim territory and potential exploits with the resource generation by larger corporations with big transportships.

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English (deepl used)

 

Hello Sander496,

 

why only Alioth, if the rescue capsules were uncoupled before the solar system, could land them on all planets in the solar system.

The teleporter should function only 1 to 3 times (limited energy). To get back to the rescue capsule you have to run or fly.

Volcanoes, meteors and earth faults that generate resources are still good.

 

 

German (original)

 

 

Quote

 

Hallo Sander496,

 

warum nur Alioth, wenn die Rettungskapseln vor dem Sonnensystem abgekoppelt wurden, könne sie auf allen Planeten im Sonnensystem landen.

Der Teleporter sollte nur 1 bis 3 mal funktionieren (beschränkte Energie). Zur Rettungskapsel zurück muss man dann laufen oder fliegen.

Vulkane, Meteore und Erdverwerfungen die Ressourcen erzeugen finde ich trotzdem gut.

 

 

 

Die Waldfee

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1 hour ago, Sander496 said:

This all builds to the assumption that everyone will want to be in a corporation

 

Two of my solutions were actually build on this assumption if you read the original post.

 

I was more referring to responses that your OP to be honest. NQ has said on several occasions there will be no reseeding of ore and IMO that is a good choice seeing how their objective is to build communities and civilisation. As I see it he game will be all about that as well as it's progression will create new/different opportunities to make money.

 

I'll take your points in OP and comment.. all this IMO obviously, your mileage may well vary..

 

Quote

1. Some basic resource regeneration of cheap resources only.

This would go against the concept and vision NQ has and has shared on several occasions. If you keep feeding cheap resources into an economy it will stagnate and people get lazy because why bother.

 

Quote

2. Players "probably" will provide free services and or resources?

You seem to focus a lot on 'cheap' and 'free' (must be the Dutch connection ;) Disclaimer.. so am I)

This game is not about having to start from the basics as far as I see it, it will be about how you use the resources at hand and adjust. At the start that will mean a lot of local mining and crafting, later it may include finding a job with a business or going criminal and steal what you need.. it is all fluid and will change over time as the game evolves and progresses. INMO this is a core element of DU which sets it apart from most other MMOs where the mechanics or progression and opportunity are basically static and determined by the developer.

 

Quote

3. Relocation of the ark ship.

No need, buy the time Alioth gets too crowded many colonies with available travel routes there will have been established.

 

Quote

4. A free starter ship that can go into space.

Then why bother with things like effort? again, like 1, this is not about getting stuff easy or without effort

 

Quote

5. Organisations will probably line up near the ark to welcome new players into their ranks and get them started.

Possibly, although one can't build near the arkship. How new players are introduced to organisations will be a big thing towards release I expect. I could see NQ create something like the displays you see around NEw Eden in EVE and obviously community platforms and websites will play a part.

 

 

Overall I do believe that DU will be extremely community focussed, pretty much like EVE. While you can go solo and be on your own you would generally have an organisation you are part of who provide a 'base' and facilities . I think that is a vital component of the story here and without it, DU basically becomes Space Engineers IMO.

 

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It has also been intimated ( I don't remember where ) that there might eventually be MORE arks. It might be that a year from release, when Alioth has been terraformed into a giant city, that new players will spawn on a different planet, in a different ark.

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Maybe there is no need to mine in the first place, maybe mining is a rare thing done by a few?    For example, one does not start with a miner in Eve Online or ever need to mine.     Even a games like Avorion and Empyrion only requires mining for a few hours and then mining can be ignored.    Not like the game is called "Dual Miner"  <g>

 

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29 minutes ago, SirKent said:

Maybe there is no need to mine in the first place, maybe mining is a rare thing done by a few?    For example, one does not start with a miner in Eve Online or ever need to mine.     Even a games like Avorion and Empyrion only requires mining for a few hours and then mining can be ignored.    Not like the game is called "Dual Miner"  <g>

 

I disagree, there will always be a need for resources. Whether or not you get them yourself, the resources will be mined. 

 

4 hours ago, Tordan said:

It has also been intimated ( I don't remember where ) that there might eventually be MORE arks. It might be that a year from release, when Alioth has been terraformed into a giant city, that new players will spawn on a different planet, in a different ark.

I've heard the same, and is a decent enough solution. I don't think there should be regenerating resources on planets. In asteroids and the like? Sure.

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I think it is totally okay and manageable if, later on, resource availability on Alioth drops notably compared to before.

 

Because the community can step in and offer players exciting ways of interaction. Some offer to get you off the planet if you join them, others might demand you to work somewhere (Mining, assembly, etc) until the debt is paid. Others will simply demand a fee to get you off, like a taxi or shuttle service without any other things like work attached. And others will do it for free.

 

Not like literally any player theoretically and practically has to or must be able to build a ship without help. For a while, sure. Way later? If it can still be guaranteed, cool. But even then I'd argue for solo players that later, there will be fast or cheaper ways to get off Alioth if they just want to leave.

 

But in the end, time will tell. I just want to say that I think in this particular case of less resources available to all on a starter planet, it's fine and fun if the community steps in. Part of emergent game play for me.

 

I'm sure NQ will adjust if need be.

 

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Once depleted, its depleted and it should stay that way to honor the brave souls who did it.  If NQ delevers what is promissed a word for the people by the people it should not interfere when we deplete a planet or cut it in half or anything really, fully emergent is to reach the possibilities of your own grandness or fail and die trying. So, no what we mess up stays messed up, what we deplete stays depleted.

 

Greetz aaron

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Besides you can still adjust via regenerating resources in space via asteroids and whatnot. Although completely dry-mined or milked planets seem weird. It should take a while.

 

 

But those are questions or topics with no "clear" answer. You can do A, B, C etc. We'll have to wait and see and also look at NQ's eventual stance on this.

 

I so far suggest initial resource rich planets that drop in yield over the months and years. A "vein extraction mechanic" can regulate this per spot or vein. If it's like Minecraft where you physically mine it all, it's gone when it's gone.

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English (deepl used)

 

Hello Warden,

 

I don't think it's possible to empty an entire universe.

 

 

German (original)

 

Quote

 

Hallo Warden,

 

ich glaube nicht das es möglich ist ein ganzes Universum leer zu graben.

 

 

 

Die Waldfee

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I’m more worried about what’s left over then I am about the materials. We don’t know yet what it’ll take to strip a planet. It might take a REALLY LONG time. For me it’s the holes. We can fill them in on the surface but will 1000km of tunnels add unnecessary lag? Maybe not. Just a thought.

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The holes will definitely be a big annoyance. Some holes maybe be filled by players but I expect many holes to remain. I also think it will take a very long time, years probably, to even strip mine one planet let alone a universe. So this is not even on the table right now. I do think that in a very short time the area around the ark will be mined so heavily that it will be hard to find anything for starting players. I expect them to have trouble figuring out how the scanner works and thinking that maybe they are doing something wrong because they won't see any resources pop up on the scanner. I guess time will tell though.

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