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Additional Renewable Resources and Power

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Resources gathered from mining will deplete. Eventually, after enough people have scoured a planet, it will be devoid of its mineral bounty.

 

One way to mitigate this is to have has some resources be renewable. The simplest example is trees. Having plantations of trees ensures that there will always be a supply of wood.

 

When people think of farming, they think of crops and livestock. When people think of renewable power they think, solar and wind. Can we do better?

 

What about mineral crystal farms? These might require the soil of a specific biome and through a process that requires quite a bit of time and power (with lazors!), constructs a mineral crystal which can be harvested. This mineral could be quite scarce if not rare to mine normally.

 

Another renewable resource could come from collecting the atmosphere of a particular planet. This gas might be difficult to find otherwise. Creating the elements to collect the gas might be quite expensive to create and require power of their own to run.

 

Renewable power could be thermal energy power collected by a specific element from heat deep inside a planet. Planets that do not have a hot core, will not be able to sustain these type of machines. Maybe a coolant would be required or the thermal power element overheats and shuts down.

 

If these renewable resources/power are spread over different planet types, it encourages trade from those high density points to places where there is less.

 

Can you think of more?

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Resources gathered from mining will deplete. Eventually, after enough people have scoured a planet, it will be devoid of its mineral bounty.

 

One way to mitigate this is to have has some resources be renewable.  The simplest example is trees. Having plantations of trees ensures that there will always be a supply of wood.

 

When people think of farming, they think of crops and livestock. When people think of renewable power they think, solar and wind.  Can we do better?

 

What about mineral crystal farms? These might require the soil of a specific biome and through a process that requires quite a bit of time and power (with lazors!), constructs a mineral crystal which can be harvested. This mineral could be quite scarce if not rare to mine normally. 

 

Another renewable resource could come from collecting the atmosphere of a particular planet. This gas might be difficult to find otherwise.  Creating the elements to collect the gas might be quite expensive to create and require power of their own to run.

 

Renewable power could be thermal energy power collected by a specific element from heat deep inside a planet.  Planets that do not have a hot core, will not be able to sustain these type of machines. Maybe a coolant would be required or the thermal power element overheats and shuts down.

 

If these renewable resources/power are spread over different planet types, it encourages trade from those high density points to places where there is less.

 

Can you think of more?

 

I like the idea, and I have been promoting something similar myself. This would help keep depleted areas "active" and prevent them from just falling into disuse and desolation. I especially support renewables that require a decent amount of set up and infrastructure which will make them valuable, and allow them to compete with/trade on equal terms with the non-depleted regions.

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Resources can't regenerate for various reasons:

-Regenerating voxels could interfere with underground caves/buildings that players could build. And even if it is disabled for claimed territories, some people may want to build without claiming anything (a territory control unit is expensive, or other reasons). 

-If you can have all the materials you want on the first planet, you'd have no motivation to move and explore for more. 

-More...

The game would never work with that, and there's no need to try to find a solution. The playerbase will eventually move in search of resources, new cities will born and old ones will be abandoned. 

 

That said, JC said something about being able to plant trees (and maybe other stuff too), but after release probably. In this case, i imagine trees will take time to plant, or they will require energy or something, because if they're too easy to farm, noone will ever cut some wild trees around planets, and that means no pvp, and no difference in value between a planet with trees and a desertic one. 

 

Solar energy and wind energy is the same thing. Infinite stuff (energy in this case) is bad, it kills the economy, and the gameplay. They could probably be balanced by making them extremely expensive. That's because, you can expect an element to be destroyed one day, but what if you place that in a safezone? what if your organization is so strong that your solar panel is pretty much invulnerable? Then you end up with an infinite source of energy, that would kill the gameplay for you and everyone around you. So there's need for another way. 

 

Renewable resources needs to have a price, in order to make them viable without breaking the game, since this is not a single player 

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Resources can't regenerate for various reasons...

The more I read this response the more I think only the title was read and not the contents. Edit: added "additional" to the thread title to make this more obvious.

 

I am not advocating that mined resources should *not* deplete. I am not advocating that renewables cover all the non-renewable resources. I am advocating special renewables that require specific conditions to fulfill. Even trees need the proper planet to grow on. Some of these renewables might not even become available until a special factory/collector is built to collect it.

 

Solar and wind *can* work. It is done by making the power obtained by these sources exceptionally small. Wind can only work on a planet with atmosphere so that is already limited. Solar only works in the rays of the sun. It is much more efficient and reliable using non-renewable resources for power. But having solar or wind available for a small relay tower makes more sense than wiring it to a nuclear reactor.

 

TLDR: Read OP.

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I can see some uses for renewable power, charging a capacitor for defense. Downside is it runs out of power and the renewable would not compensate well.

 

Attack forces may use solar to power low end systems on a ship. Or charge up a capacitor. although It would be far less efficient than using the main ships reactor.

 

Point is i guess is with renewable's  they always have to be superseded by none renewable.

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I can see some uses for renewable power, charging a capacitor for defense. Downside is it runs out of power and the renewable would not compensate well.

 

Attack forces may use solar to power low end systems on a ship. Or charge up a capacitor. although It would be far less efficient than using the main ships reactor.

 

Point is i guess is with renewable's  they always have to be superseded by none renewable.

How to break solar farms in safezones:

Place blocks to block sunlight and let them slowly drain then attack

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How to break solar farms in safezones:

Place blocks to block sunlight and let them slowly drain then attack

Solar would probably only look at the orientation of the planet and not at shadows... Which could lead to weirdness like underground solar. But let's say shadows of voxels do make solar panels stop working, then it would be easier to park a massive ship in the way.

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Solar would probably only look at the orientation of the planet and not at shadows... Which could lead to weirdness like underground solar. But let's say shadows of voxels do make solar panels stop working, then it would be easier to park a massive ship in the way.

Minecraft already has a solution for this though although simply mining upwards solved this however, in dual universe this would be a crippling weak point.

 canseesky=true and timeofday== then

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How to break solar farms in safezones:

Place blocks to block sunlight and let them slowly drain then attack

Except those blocks are also destructible.  But I wouldn't rely on solar or wind for military installations; I'd want to use underground fusion reactors.  They'd produce more watts per unit volume but would be considerably more expensive to build.  They'd also require deuterium fuel, which should be fairly common as it is also the basic fuel used for space travel.  You'd want to colocate your military bases with your deuterium supply.

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I was just watching the devs build an underground area and was toying with the idea that an attack from an enemy org underground could be way more devastating because would you even think of being attacked from below like that?

 

Then those fusion reactors would, for the most part, be only protected by small infantry turrets.  Game over! 

 

 

 

 

But on the topic of renewable energy, I agree that using solar power for military installations would be terrible but for low-end farming and mining perhaps more beneficial.  Just gotta protect em with the right amount of defenses!

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I was just watching the devs build an underground area and was toying with the idea that an attack from an enemy org underground could be way more devastating because would you even think of being attacked from below like that?

 

Then those fusion reactors would, for the most part, be only protected by small infantry turrets.  Game over! 

They still have to check the ENTIRE zone for it though.

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They still have to check the ENTIRE zone for it though.

 

just assign one guy with a rusty spoon to dig for weeks to allow the whole org to attack!

 

mwahahaha, its full proof!

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Resources - yes, they should deplete. JC has stated before that lack of resources could be a driving force to get people and organizations to move to other planets or systems. Also, planets are huge, it's not happening any time soon either.

 

Power - I like what Space Engineers did with their solar panels. Using them was pretty much impossible for ships because they use a lot of resources and generate a trickle of power. They take up a lot of space and are a hassle to deal with. Any "infinite" energy source should work like that. If you want practicality, "infinite" energy sources should not come into consideration.

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I like the idea of resource farms (or manufacturers taking resources and refining them, or making them into products) so long as these more complicated farms can't be really easily set up. Try and force the DU economy to model the real world - resource rich planets are mostly for mining, and less resource rich worlds have already been mined but are rich and have been able to set up the expensive farms and manufacturing facilities. Provides an incentive to constantly expand the universe (wanting more and more resources) but also prevents old worlds becoming disused (don't want to abandon all that expensive equipment).

 

I could see dead zones emerging between the developed worlds and the mining worlds if the player base doesn't expand too much though.

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The more I read this response the more I think only the title was read and not the contents. Edit: added "additional" to the thread title to make this more obvious.

I am not advocating that mined resources should *not* deplete. I am not advocating that renewables cover all the non-renewable resources. I am advocating special renewables that require specific conditions to fulfill. Even trees need the proper planet to grow on. Some of these renewables might not even become available until a special factory/collector is built to collect it.

Solar and wind *can* work. It is done by making the power obtained by these sources exceptionally small. Wind can only work on a planet with atmosphere so that is already limited. Solar only works in the rays of the sun. It is much more efficient and reliable using non-renewable resources for power. But having solar or wind available for a small relay tower makes more sense than wiring it to a nuclear reactor.

TLDR: Read OP.

i read it, mine was just a comprhensive answer regarding the argument, not just to your post. Renewable resources can work indeed, as i said, but they have to be balanced, and the devs know that. Solar and wind cant be balanced by making their output incredibly small, because you could just stack enough of them, it's still infinite energy. To mantain those elements you'll have to pay a price proportional to the amount of energy you'll get, that's how balancing works. So if you want it to be renewable, you'll not trade resources like uranium, but you'll give something else, like your time (like you'll need to clean the solar panel), they'll have a duration (they ruins over time) or something else

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i read it, mine was just a comprhensive answer regarding the argument, not just to your post. Renewable resources can work indeed, as i said, but they have to be balanced, and the devs know that. Solar and wind cant be balanced by making their output incredibly small, because you could just stack enough of them, it's still infinite energy. To mantain those elements you'll have to pay a price proportional to the amount of energy you'll get, that's how balancing works. So if you want it to be renewable, you'll not trade resources like uranium, but you'll give something else, like your time (like you'll need to clean the solar panel), they'll have a duration (they ruins over time) or something else

 

 

I don't understand why you're arguing against the idea of an unbalanced system, as if someone suggested one.  He mentions costs and power consumption more then once in the OP.   

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just assign one guy with a rusty spoon to dig for weeks to allow the whole org to attack!

 

mwahahaha, its full proof!

They could make it impossible to mine within the confines of a shielded area and make shields spherical.  

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Resources - yes, they should deplete. JC has stated before that lack of resources could be a driving force to get people and organizations to move to other planets or systems. Also, planets are huge, it's not happening any time soon either.

 

Power - I like what Space Engineers did with their solar panels. Using them was pretty much impossible for ships because they use a lot of resources and generate a trickle of power. They take up a lot of space and are a hassle to deal with. Any "infinite" energy source should work like that. If you want practicality, "infinite" energy sources should not come into consideration.

I never said that the resources NQ currently has planned should not deplete. These will still drive people to move to other planets and systems. Additional replenishing resources will have a similar drive: to find specific planet types or planets with specific conditions and setup shop. The amount produced at a time could be quite small but it can be produced. It will keep old planets slightly relevant but they will not replace the need to expand to get those depleted resources. It also depends on the usefulness of the resource. Like how useful will wood really be? If these resources are just cosmetic, would people have a problem with them replenishing?

 

I agree on the power. Having large fields of solar panels sounds like a brilliant way to get energy, and in safe zones it should be, but outside it becomes impractical to shield all of them.

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It seems Shynras is worried about a scenario where a player or group builds enough panels/farms/crystals/renewable sources of whatever, that they transcend the need to go out and gather certain resources. Even with renewable energy like solar panels, they could sit tight in their base forever. Someone could be self-sustaining and no longer need to interact with other players or the wider world. Depending on how they are implemented, renewable resources could introduce the problem where a rich player could produce vastly more than a poor player, knocking many people out of that market. In general there should be a certain ratio between how much time you spend doing something and how much you get out of it.

 

Personally I am okay with certain resources being renewable or even fully automated, but they should be very very limited.

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People seem to forget that player made safezones are not safe. They are force fields that can be collapsed when consuming damage, and will need to be powered by something expensive to run. If you have such an item impossible to make renewable (such as hydrogen for a fusion reactor), then they will still need to interact to keep their retirement home safe. Not to mention that a place full of expensive equipment is a very juicy target for pillaging.

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Resources gathered from mining will deplete. Eventually, after enough people have scoured a planet, it will be devoid of its mineral bounty.

 

One way to mitigate this is to have has some resources be renewable. The simplest example is trees. Having plantations of trees ensures that there will always be a supply of wood.

 

When people think of farming, they think of crops and livestock. When people think of renewable power they think, solar and wind. Can we do better?

 

What about mineral crystal farms? These might require the soil of a specific biome and through a process that requires quite a bit of time and power (with lazors!), constructs a mineral crystal which can be harvested. This mineral could be quite scarce if not rare to mine normally.

 

Another renewable resource could come from collecting the atmosphere of a particular planet. This gas might be difficult to find otherwise. Creating the elements to collect the gas might be quite expensive to create and require power of their own to run.

 

Renewable power could be thermal energy power collected by a specific element from heat deep inside a planet. Planets that do not have a hot core, will not be able to sustain these type of machines. Maybe a coolant would be required or the thermal power element overheats and shuts down.

 

If these renewable resources/power are spread over different planet types, it encourages trade from those high density points to places where there is less.

 

Can you think of more?

You have an planet from one side to the othe is I dont accuely know the exat number lets say 150Km like in Space Engineers this make Radius 75Km so 3/4 4/3*PI*r3=1'767'000Km3=1'767'000'000'000'000M3 So if you just have 0.1% of them Ores those would be still 1'767'000'000'000M3 or Ores if u need for evry 1M3 5Sek you need to Completly mine it you would need 165 Years for you to mine the Ore, but i know you are not allone there OK you are right if there are 1'000 Player playing the Ores will be complytly gone in just 8,5 weeks WTF lol oO* good may you need Longer to mine 1M3 And the ores are May more tthen 0.1% and the planet could be bigger I dont know those things 100% sure no one does know it. :P

 

Ok lets be a bit more opti mistic the planet would be 2 times larger the tools would need 4 times longer to mine 1M3 and there is 1% ores instead of 0.1% that would make with 100 players 4(Time)*10(%)*2(M3)*TimeOf1'000Players = 13.22Years to mine the complete planet under this settings  1.32 years for 10'000 Players 0.132 years(7Weeks) for 100'000 players.

 

fun fact for the completet Planet to mine a 1 single Player would need 165'000Years or seacond 13'000Years a lot of fun by solo Mining your planet away :)

 

Good we have cleary some missing factores the biggest People arent constantly mining  insted just 10% or somting like that. but that cant we know yet becouse we dont know how costly components would be. :P

 

 

Your Idea Might be an Option but there are Easyer ways to compensate it just make Ores harder to Breake so you have to Mine them Longer And Equaly to this you can Make out of the Ores More Ingots or wath ever that would be the Easyst way to solve the problem but isent the best becouse mining sucks that way :P

 

youre way might be an Better Option i dont know it we will see waths the best if the game is finished it will be a thing after fullversion v1.0 ^^

 

 

Edit i Fucked up becouse i Caculatet 3/4 instead of 4/3 fuu but now the results should be right :P

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I like the idea of renewable power, well-balanced of course. I understand that you don't want to be able to have players either become hermits because they don't need fuel, or super-powerful for the same reason.

But as a temporary power source or a way to very slowly charge something, I think it should be an option.

 

It would be strange to think that in the future, humans would dump the renewable power sources that already exist for ones that require fuel.

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