Knight-Sevy

Why should we buy ore?

It's been 1 years now that we have been waiting for PvP. Just to start having fun and using our tens of millions of liters of ore stored for over a year.
 
And PvP is still not there.
Now we are going to add tens of millions of liters of ore to our stocks every month.
 
And we still don't have PvP.
Who will want ore in the market? to do what ?

Why should we buy ore?

It's been 1 years now that we have been waiting for PvP. Just to start having fun and using our tens of millions of liters of ore stored for over a year.
 
And PvP is still not there.
Now we are going to add tens of millions of liters of ore to our stocks every month.
 
And we still don't have PvP.
Who will want ore in the market? to do what ?

I will add nothing here.
But I want to tell you that I appreciate seeing you react to this kind of topic on the forum.

And I imagine not to be the only one.
Now I leave you and I will wait for Demeter to pass and my personal concerns to return to the table to discuss then.

We are there because NQ has always had an ultra capitalist vision of them.
 
The most glaring example is the system of organizations. It is a copy of a (foul) ideology of an ultra liberal "start up nation".
 
For NQ you MUST be a self-employed entrepreneur and have your own business to generate profit because that is how the world works or has to work for them. If you listen to them, it is the only way a civilization has to be born and prosper.
 
It is completely to deny several millinear years of human history.
Civilizations have developed because there have been state organizations with inalienable sovereignties.
In Dual Universe if you make an organization you are a legate and the one and only boss, you can leave with the fund whenever you want.
There is no democratic process, you cannot choose to integrate homework and homework.
 
Example: impossible for an organization to vote spending limits for its members / legates. No way to protect assets for projects other than personal enrichment.
 
It is not the fault of the community.
It's NQ's fault.

We are there because NQ has always had an ultra capitalist vision of them.
 
The most glaring example is the system of organizations. It is a copy of a (foul) ideology of an ultra liberal "start up nation".
 
For NQ you MUST be a self-employed entrepreneur and have your own business to generate profit because that is how the world works or has to work for them. If you listen to them, it is the only way a civilization has to be born and prosper.
 
It is completely to deny several millinear years of human history.
Civilizations have developed because there have been state organizations with inalienable sovereignties.
In Dual Universe if you make an organization you are a legate and the one and only boss, you can leave with the fund whenever you want.
There is no democratic process, you cannot choose to integrate homework and homework.
 
Example: impossible for an organization to vote spending limits for its members / legates. No way to protect assets for projects other than personal enrichment.
 
It is not the fault of the community.
It's NQ's fault.

A wipe for the moment brings nothing to the game in its current state.

We don't even have PvP in play to actually use our wealth.
 
Bad people who cheated are rich but have no impact whatsoever.
Those who have already quit playing want to wipe but we don't really know why. She won't play post wipe anymore.
New players will not be coming as the current gameplay is WORSE than when the game was launched in Beta.
Well established players always will be.
We'll just have to start over with what we have already done. The difference for the game is that we wouldn't waste time building pretty things the first 6 months.

A wipe for the moment brings nothing to the game in its current state.

We don't even have PvP in play to actually use our wealth.
 
Bad people who cheated are rich but have no impact whatsoever.
Those who have already quit playing want to wipe but we don't really know why. She won't play post wipe anymore.
New players will not be coming as the current gameplay is WORSE than when the game was launched in Beta.
Well established players always will be.
We'll just have to start over with what we have already done. The difference for the game is that we wouldn't waste time building pretty things the first 6 months.

This.  I think most of the people saying 'a wipe is OK if I keep my talent points' are saying it because they know they can get back their position again fairly quickly so long as they keep those.  But isn't the point of a wipe to reset and disrupt things and give the new players the ability to compete with the older ones?  What is the point in doing that if established players can re-establish much more quickly than the new players can?

One way to do it would be to give everyone 0 talent points but let the existing players train at 2x normal speed until they have reached the number of talent points they had pre-wipe.  That way people get to keep their advantage they paid for but they have to stay in game and re-sub for a number of months (anout 9 if you started at the beginning of beta?) before they actually get it all back and there isn't such a disruptive imbalance right at the start.

Needs to add 2 things:
 
1) Maximum capacity points on a ship
Example :
An S core would have 12,000 pts of capacity
Items use this ability:
- engine L / Fuel Tank L: 300 pts
- adjustor L / hover L / Vboost L / Fuel tank M: 50 pts
- Wing L / Brake L: 60 pts
ect ...
 
This will make it possible to specialize the ships.
 
2) With the introduction of ability points introduce element thirds from basic to rare.
Higher tier items will not cost more in ability points but would have higher stats.
 
This will allow the player to have ships that can continue to carry whatever they want. And will allow NQ to dragstically reduce the "element wall" effect.

Dear Noveans,
 
Earlier this year, we announced that JC was transitioning to a new role as a board member and board advisor and that Nicolas Granatino, a long-standing backer of Novaquark via Andurance Venture, had been appointed chairman of the board. 
 
We’re happy to share with you today that Nouredine Abboud has joined the company as CEO of Novaquark. Nouredine has more than 15 years of experience in the industry and brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise with an impressive catalog of work that includes Ubisoft’s Ghost Recon games. 
 
As CEO, his primary focus is on the business side of things, so you probably won’t see him participating on the forums much. As we reach the final stretch leading to the launch of the game, the team already in place will continue to work on improving Dual Universe with NQ-Kyrios continuing his work as creative director.
 
We can’t wait to share with you the exciting things that are cooking for the game and for the company in 2022. Stay tuned!

Welcome thread is here if you'd like to say hello to Nouredine. 
 

Hi Noveans,
Thanks for the warm welcome! Since I've joined I've been amazed by the incredible job the Novaquark team is doing, working hard on delivering the dream of Dual Universe. I’m also very impressed by how you, our community, have been supporting the DU project from day one. Let's all keep moving forward together!
Cheers,
Nouredine

This should be a priority.
 
If it is not on the roadmap before the release, it is dramatic for the future of the game and its balance.

Demeter is coming and promising features been revealed, specially concerning the optimization of the game, i would like to point out once more several aspects of the game that are here from day 1 and should be considered for improvement in a very near future. 
 
 
Gameplay:
- Collision box:
Walking on micro voxel construct floors is like wearing high heels shoes and having heels getting stuck in every little surfaces details, while sometimes having really undesired collision and repelling the player away.
 
- Jetpack run:
Double tap forward sometimes too sensitive and is generator of jump scares. So maybe need to allocate a different keybind for it
 
- Mining tools:
Demeter will revolutionize the mining mechanics, so maybe we dont need all those mining and scanning tools. Could fusion them into 1
 
- Surface ores:
Surface ores should be minable anywhere (including claimed tiles) by anyone. They arent a source for mass production, but mainly as starting resource. Someone crashing into a huge claimed zone (such as the zone all around Alioth markets) without scrap, has no other way but to run for hours to be able to reach an unclaimed tile for couple scraps.
 
- Inventories:
Inventories are real mess, we should be able to reorganize by type
Items are way too many, specially honeycombs
Search bar is buggy by the way, not functioning in certain situations like barter inventory search
 
 
 
Flight Mechanics:
- The stall vector bug:
It is possible to stop a dynamic construct (any weight) in mid air, with only brakes, no anti grav, by aligning the forward vector with the gravity while stalling
 
- Cross Section lift:
While cross sections are used to generate drag, it would be better that they also produce lift!
This would have multiple advantages:
First, that would reduce the number of wings and stabilizers elements on construct, by this reducing the construct data weight (so, beneficial for server, beneficial for data transfer). 
Then,  and most important, would release players creation potential, allowing them to design their own voxel wings, because they might want wings long  instead of wide, but right now we don't have choice.
 
- Engines power:
I strongly, but very strongly do believe all engines thrusts needs to be scaled up.
Engines power do not actually match at all their size in comparison with their core size.
Players always use the superior size elements depending on the core size. No one will use M engines on a M core.
As well players will always try to reach better performances, by adding more and more engines, therefor greatly and unfortunately compromising on the design (more elements = greater construct data weight).
Design is a too important point for the image of the game, skilled creators struggle way too much to do something that looks good and performs good, and we dont want evolve in a game invaded by borg cubes. 
 
- Fuel consumption:
Just scaled down fuel consumption, its a game where we are mainly supposed to fly. For instance, a very basic VTOL construct has no more than 15min fuel autonomy in atmosphere, this is not acceptable.
 
 
 
Honeycombs:
To me and all the players i have talked to, honeycomb is the game biggest mess, while it is the game creativity most important content.
Honeycombs can be a multiple pages topic, so important they are and so badly they are treated, and as myself an architect and paying extremely attention to materials i have couple words to say about it.
 
Names choices show there has been no research made on this topic
Galvanized, is a zinc coating exclusively for iron and steel to protect from rust, so it is not colored in any cases, and cant be applied over aluminium
Brick is not a material, Ceramic is, with what we can make bricks or porcelain
 
I suggest using 4 basic finishes names instead: "natural / polished / brushed / painted"
I addition of that there is a big difference between "painted", "tainted" and "textured"
 
For honeycombs to be efficiently accurate and become the best creativity content, we need a paint tool! 
I suggest the replacement of the "Voxel replacement tool" (which is absolutely useless and it is equivalent to select and copy paste) by a "Voxel paint tool"
 
This tool could have the right side slot bar, and a TAB window (the same way we open filters for the scanner), with the above named properties and colors selectors:
/ a button for selecting the finish (natural / polished / brushed / painted matt / painted glossy)
/ a RGB rainbow for selecting a color (the same way it has been done for character color selection i guess)
/ a button for selecting a pattern/texture/bump that would be applied on top of it
And once we are satisfied with a result we could drag and drop it to a right side bar slot and exit TAB to use the tool on our construct
 
Most of all a paint tool would empty our inventories and industries, leaving in there only the raw/natural version of it
HUGE HUGE benefit for the game data, no more list of hundreds of different honeycombs to deal with our industries, our inventories,  markets, and bandwidth to load all that mess
 
5 years dev team been trying, updating and failing those precious honeycombs, the render and colors of them is nowadays the worst it has ever been
 
 
 
Element:
- Design:
The elements design is bad and not in harmony with the game global structure and mechanics. Those elements could fit in any other games and are not adapted at all to be fit into a voxel creation, they are staining our creations.
The edit vertex update will help us go around them for a better looking seamless fitting, but will not remove this obvious stains looking detailed mesh on top of low details voxels surfaces
In the first published artworks and ingame screenshots 6 years ago, there was that white long squared engine, which is exactly the type of compatible design for voxels, but you guys made it over complicated....
 
- Colors: 
Colors is also a big part of the stain effect elements have on creations, so please, let us right click on elements and choose a color by ourselves
 
- Decorative:
There should be more decorative and structural simple elements of different scales(bars, panels, truss etc...), for players not skilled enough with voxels, where voxels could be a minority and a link between those elements
 
And btw, orange flames from engine fire is supposed to be due to oxygen burning, so to be accurate, orange particles for atmo engines, and blue particles for space engines...
 
- Obstruction
I do think obstruction for engines and adjusters needs to be reviewed.
Distance to target of obstruction needs to be lowered
Cone angle needs to be clarified
Obstruction cone need a graphic representation
 
 
 
LUA:
- Slots:
We should be able to call every single elements within same construct by their names without having to link them. So no more lua slots problem, and linkage would be for manual interactions without use of lua.
If i link this button with that door, i can manually open and close that door
But if i have 20 doors, i should be able to open or close them independently with 1 single programming board just by calling them by their names
Since automatic naming differentiate elements of same type with [number], those could be stacked in a table using this number as keys.
 
- Keybindings:
Would be nice to enable all the keyboard keys recognition for lua programming
 
- Resell:
When the "save to inventory with drm" button when we right click on scripted elements? so we could barter our scripts more easily.
 
 
 
Good luck, we are getting there!
Cheers
Jeronimo

After seeing the video and getting hyped for DU again I almost resubbed my account to come back to the game. (only been gone since Apollo issues).  I was like now this, this is the right direction.  Now after reviewing with my org the details on the test server I am no longer hyped. No longer impressed and no longer even considering for a moment about returning to DU if these changes go live.  

Not only will this destroy literally every build I have in the game and remove them permanently (I don't make 27 million a week in profit on anything) but as someone who has health issues, there is no way I can sustain my building enjoyment vs the tax rate.  NQ asked players to BUILD THE WORLD so there was stuff here when the release happened so that new players would see a world full of builds. Now with taxes the world will be barren.  Did someone just take a 2 week vacation with their family for the holidays? Oh great all of their factories, builds, etc have been taxed and unpaid and now simply gone.  They return after a good family outing to find out that NQ has deleted everything they worked for due to taxes.  That ends their enjoyment of the game, and they move on to other games. 

Even mobile afk games have enough buttons to press to keep people playing games like AFK arena for years.  Come on.  You get so close to something good, something that hypes the community only to throw in some STUPID last minute thing that completely destroys your reputation as a game developer. Its too much for any White Knight of NQ to deal with.
 
________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
What Demeter COULD have been.

-Auto-mining and more asteroids resulting in more ore in the economy.
-Time saving feature allowing players who build to have a constant supply of ore (although low) to build the world with
-Beautiful builds arising that function better and have less lag due to the ground rework
-Rebalanced Ore economy due to surplus from players not using the ore (or orgs mass mining to supply markets)
-Voxel tools making building with voxel easier, saving more time for players.
-More time saved = more builds = more pvp content as people have time to have fun in DU. (since they have to mine less)
 
________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
What Demeter IS GOING to be;
 
-Auto-mining costs more than the ore that is mined. (tile with 500L/hr hematite generates 2.1m in value to bots in a week, 1m cost to own the tile, likely 1-2m to ship the ore if not on Alioth in warp cells, saved to 400k if slowboat)
-With the increase in ore stabilizing the ore market, the lack of ability to pay the taxes results in NO ore on the market
-Players who aren't "Hardcore" and are "Casual" or have real lives losing their builds
-Ships now cost so much that the ore will never be attainable for the ships to be built.
-ALL ships PRE-Demeter become INVALID
-All Ship designers pre-demeter leave DU when this releases rather than completely overhauling everything they ever did in DU since September. (see Apollo update results)
-PVP will die off completely as orgs/pirates will not be able to afford the taxes on the ore they need to repair their ships and players will not risk hauling anything valuable without warp due to the taxes consuming 90% of the value of the ore before you lift off the planet with it.

_____________________________________________________

What should NQ do then?!
 
-Remove taxes from this update.
-Remove brake changes from this update
-Research how to implement "decay systems" into your game properly.
-Remove weird ass mechanics from Auto-miners that not a single person has said was positive. Wtf even is this. 

_____________________________________________________

Suggestion on HOW to implement TAXATION for CLAIMATION.
 
-Players place the core, receive a pop up that asks the type of tile it will be and selects one of the following options;
Residential Tile (Housing and cool looking builds with no functionality) Minor tax (150k/week) or No Tax (already paid upfront) Industrial Tile (Designed for Industrial tiles with factories) Medium tax (300k/week) Mining Tile (Designed for Mining Units) High Taxes (450k/week) Commercial Tile (Designed for selling goods) Taxes paid off sales (10%-20%) directly from dispensers. This will allow players to choose what they want to do;
 
To further elaborate- Residential tiles cannot hold industry units.  Industry Tiles could have a maximum # of allowed assemblers, Mining Tiles could be the only tiles that allow autominers to be functional, and Commerical tiles are the only tiles that allow use of dispensers.  Residential tiles could be green, Industry tiles yellow, Mining tiles Red, and Commerical tiles blue on the map.  
 
This would allow players to identify the tile type in the map and see the various commercial tiles around the worlds and encourage them to go shopping. (boosting economy)  Which highest traffic ones could eventually end up with market areas (as previously mentioned at the end of Alpha)

WAR DECLARE SYSTEM- This suggestion would tie into future features like the War system as orgs could identify mining tiles or commercial tiles of their enemy orgs while at the same time leaving alone those massive Residential builds that everyone loves to visit that won't gain them any profit for attacking. 
 
This would also allow a decay system to be put in place for people who just leave the game for "too long" and would remove many of the towers that exist of people who haven't played since 0.23.
 
_________________________________________________________________________________
 
TLDR:  If NQ implements taxes/brake changes to DU, the game will die fully. These changes don't increase the time for FUN, they remove the FUN entirely.  NQ I strongly urge you to PAY ATTENTION to this update more than you did the last 2 and LISTEN to these ONLY TWO REAL complaints from the community and X them out before this goes live. 

I don't think you understand how autominers are meant to be used, or the math involved. There is simply a ton of inaccurate information in this post. Here is a simplified, but illustrative, example: you claim 7 tiles in a clump on alioth, and fully mine them out with your allotment of autominers (400-500l average per tile on many planets, 7 tiles with 100l/auto miner, is 28-35 autominers, so near the cap of one account). Using the numbers from Gottchar's thread, you would mine ~150kL assorted ore a day, or ~1ML a week, with this setup. At current prices, even if you were only mining T1, this is close to 100M quanta a week, for 7M a week in taxes. This is not "selling all of it for upkeep", it's 7%. You can use the other 93% of pure profit to buy any other ore you desire off the market, or head to an asteroid when you have the time.
 
All of this for a few minutes a day doing the dumb minigame, which you can VR to. This does not require hopping around to every planet to do the minigame, nor does it cost 42M per week.
 
In your complaint about needed to be around all day on Saturday to race to PvE asteroids, you completely glossed over the fact that most PvP asteroids go completely undiscovered and unmined the entire week. These are available for you to mine at literally any time you desire. If you do not want to PvP that is fine, you can join up with a group who do. If you still do not want to take the risk, that is also fine, there is a giant safe zone to still have fun in, but giving up the greater rewards of PvP asteroids is a result of that choice.

I also dont like the max 3 months pre fund limit. 
I think you are on the right track here.  Different costs for different activities.  I think a checkbox that you select. For instance, Mineral rights that you check if you want to mine. Industrial rights if you want to do industry, storage rights if you want to use containers. market rights if you want to place dispensers. Build rights if you want to place static constructs.  With a fee that you can opt in or out of for each and basic tax for owning the property. 
 
So 100K a week for claiming the tile as a mandatory fee. 
50k to build
150k to storage
200k to sell
250k for industry
250k for mining
 
So you could have your territory for as little as 100k.   If you just want to build on the territory it would cost you 150k a week.  If you just wanted to mine on a territory you would need to build, storage and mining. it would cost you 600k per week (initial, build, storage mining).  Same for industry. 600k.  Or if you wanted to do everything it would be 1,000,000 a week. 
 
However there should be a tax. Because the real reason behind the tax system is to get rid of abandoned territories. (although sanctuary is always free for you forever. 
 

I find PvP in DualUniverse to be extremely boring. you build the current meta and smash everyone else who doesn't use a meta.
It doesn't need any real group interaction, it doesn't need any special skills of the players, except to max the talents in the skill tree - some clicks and then wait until they run through.
I miss the possibility to build real battleships with a large crew, everyone has a task, is part of the team. I want to see myself on a cruiser, running all the way along to get into an on-board gun, then fire the target myself. i don't want to just press an identify-load-shoot button in the window, and then just wait for the ship in the window to be destroyed. i want to sit in a gun, turn it in all directions, see and direct the fire in real life. i want to target the enemy ship with the aiming cursor....
I want there to be real raids of players. One pilot, several players responsible for the different guns. Players who have to adjust the shields during the battle, other players who can use special steering engines for a quick turn. Players who can use special sun sails to bring the ship to an extreme stop. 
I want to run across the corridors of the ship and be afraid that the enemy has come in somewhere through the outer wall to fire at us from the inside - because a completely destroyed ship would be worthless. What a great thing it would be to have 20-25 players in a group on a large cruiser to steer the ship together. You could go further, there could be portable personal shields, there could be medipacks, there could be...so many things in PvP to improve the current situation....I don't want to sit in a single-seater metaship and fly through space for hours to shoot down a miner. It also doesn't help if I'm sitting in discord with 10 others and we're all sitting in a 1-seater metaship, flying through space for hours with 10 ships. It's just no fun.
 
 

DU for the PvPers is an irritating drag of patience. Sadly I have to agree that there is no quick fix for the combat part of the game, not by a long shot. Not only is the balance and design just simply bad but the bugs and desync is so deep routed its very troubling for DU’s future. 
 
Combat definitely needs a ton of attention and a few more dedicated major updates before it can even be considered viable or “fun”. However NQ has stated they wish to release by around summer next year. It will be very interesting seeing the road map update coming because even at current pace that gives NQ 3 more major updates after Juno.

While I don't disagree with the changes to Airbrakes, can you explain why Demeter is the time to implement this? A time where we are all already experiencing a game changing shift in the way we will play Dual Universe, with entire systems being implemented and changed, why would adding an previously un-announced change that will go and cause the majority of constructs to not function properly, be something you thought should be included with Demeter? 

Since the Ares Q&A video seemed to be pretty popular, we're planning to do another to answer your questions related to the approaching Demeter update. Please drop them in this thread. 

SUPER IMPORTANT STUFF PLEASE READ EVEN IF YOU HATE READING (yes, even you): 
We politely yet strongly request that you wait until after you've explored the Demeter content on PTS a bit before posing questions. A lot of the information you seek may be discovered through your hands-on gameplay adventures.  Likewise, you should watch the Demeter vlog before asking questions here. Many questions we've seen this week were accompanied by people admitting that they hadn't watched the video.  We know it's long and cannot compete with great videos like this and this, but it's really important stuff. Maybe watch in increments, taking a snack break here and there. (Protip: The segment with Deckard pairs well with cheesy poofs.) We will only answer Demeter-related questions.   
Thanks in advance for your participation and what I'm sure will be superamazingbangerangadelic questions. 

I think this because harvesting ore from asteroids will be the fastest way to get a good amount of ore.
The players are generally impatient.
 If someone is missing a few thousand cubic meters to finish a project. He's not going to wait 1 week.
And for the question of unarmed people who get killed in a PvP zone.
NQ was clear on this: You go out in zone PvP you are PvP players.
Whether it shocks your fragile little person or not. These are the rules of the game, it is not you who decide them.
By the way for a more complete answer:
From the moment a player tries to gain an economic advantage from the game it is PvP.
A ship L armed to protect itself against pirates costs 100/200 million.
After that those who do not make the effort to arm themselves make unfair competition.
It is therefore normal that they are killed by other players who make the effort to are.

This is already what we are doing.
We have built only 1 ship optimized.
Our entire fleet is made of this single optimized vessel with its shoebox-shaped design.
My god this game is boring.

Maybe major changes for PvP are already planned with Demeter, but nothing has been communicated to us.
We are still waiting for the team to share about their vision for PvP.

A video as qualitative as the one they produced for Demeter would be highly appreciated.
 
----------------------------------------
 
In reality the main problem for me is the dissonance between the strengths of the game, or what is put forward. And the actual gameplay mechanics.
 
The voxel build is the strong point of the game. I understand the need to add the shield for PvP so that we do not use voxel in PvP and thus reduce financial costs.
=> If it's a question of survival for the game: ok with that.
 
On the other hand, preventing players from playing with constructions of the size and shape they dream of is simply intolerable.
 
Why is this cross section the determining factor for the life or death of a construct in a PvP zone?

There are dozens of ways to do this and the one chosen is the one that prevents players from doing diversified voxel builds.
Fix this pls NQ
 
--------------------------------------
 
To this must be added the need to make PvP more fun and interesting. It is one thing that a core size dominates the meta or that a weapon does.
But this must be a different balancing issue compared to the voxel "skin" a player can put on their PvP ship.

This is already what we are doing.
We have built only 1 ship optimized.
Our entire fleet is made of this single optimized vessel with its shoebox-shaped design.
My god this game is boring.

This is already what we are doing.
We have built only 1 ship optimized.
Our entire fleet is made of this single optimized vessel with its shoebox-shaped design.
My god this game is boring.