Hazaatan

So, instead of adding actual fuel to industry, like every other factory game, NQ is turning schematics into fuel...  The correct answer is right there, it's in every good factory game that I have ever played.  It should have been generators leading up to reactors to give more elements to play with and manage... 
 
This is a train wreck.  I didn't think anything would surpass New World for the most epic-dumpster-fire-trainwreck of a release, but NQ is lining it up so DU has a really good shot at surpassing New World for the worst release.
And just like New World, the only thing more cringe than the train wreck itself, is the white knights that follow saying everything is fine.

So, instead of adding actual fuel to industry, like every other factory game, NQ is turning schematics into fuel...  The correct answer is right there, it's in every good factory game that I have ever played.  It should have been generators leading up to reactors to give more elements to play with and manage... 
 
This is a train wreck.  I didn't think anything would surpass New World for the most epic-dumpster-fire-trainwreck of a release, but NQ is lining it up so DU has a really good shot at surpassing New World for the worst release.
And just like New World, the only thing more cringe than the train wreck itself, is the white knights that follow saying everything is fine.

This soooooo much. I am normally the chill dude that tries to be impartial and insert reason and facts into discussions.
But as a professional software developer it makes my blood boil having to watch NQ doing things 'their way'. And the saying "you reap what you sow" is very much deserved in this case.

In this case, no news is not good news. 
 
They'll push the schematics change and try to do the wipe just before release.
Then they'll find an explosion of bugs from everything they've touched in the 3 months since this dumb wipe "announcement", which they won't be able to fix in time.
 
That's on top of the bugs that always come with release. 
 
Hard to have any sympathy for this style of software development.
 
Let's make an announcement that ensures no one wants to beta test and drastically alters the economy since no one believes quanta will persist...then proceed to keep changing things up until the moment of release without a drop of feedback considered (including some updates getting pushed straight to live and skipping the PTS). 
 
That's a professional software development lifecycle...right? Good thing they learned from how bad public beta's launch went and are taking steps to make this an even more "dramatic" release, eh? 

So....It's been 3 months now. 
 
NQ's CEO had time to post on LinkedIn 16 times since this thread started, mostly about the metaverse and how great user-created content is...and how revolutionary web3 is (lol). 
 
How many times has NQ commented on this topic since it started? Like 2-3 times? 
 
It seems like he's more interested in cultivating his LinkedIn persona and going to "metaverse conferences" then engaging with customers, understanding his own product, or trying to fix NQ's cosmically bad PR (among other things). 
 
I get that he's likely trying to position NQ for sale or another investment round...which again underscores how little the leadership believes in DU working as a product on release. 
 
Some of the claims he's posted are borderline lies...if the leadership is that willing to "stretch" the truth in a public post, why should we trust them with anything...? 
 
NQ likes to complain about not having enough time, but the new CEO has made it clear that there's more than one project going on.
 
Adding everything up, I wouldn't be shocked if DU dev was glacial in part because it only has a skeleton crew working on it, with everyone else working on these other projects that NQ won't discuss. 
 
This all feels disingenuous and scammy...which I guess makes NQ a true "metaverse company" after all. 

how/when are you going to answer any of the questions and concerns that have been raised here? There is a heap of commentary and questions that haven't been responded to and the answers to those questions already asked really are needed to inform further questions.
 
Summary of questions so far:
What happens when running industry use up their stored schematics?

How many schematics will be able to be stacked into each industry unit?

With the examples shown in the video it would take approximately 700 schematic hours to produce enough warp cells to transport enough ore to build the required warp cells, similarly, assuming production time for schematics scales by tier,  it would take approximately 100h of schematic hours to produce enough fuel for a 9600L fuel tank. How is hundreds of hours of AFK activity to support an hour of active gameplay considered reasonable by your development team?

With the primary complaints for the game currently being time and resource gating access to the limited gameplay how do you see more time gating and gatekeeping as the solution?

Do you want people to just find the game unplayable?

If the schematics will cost money to copy and will be consumed on creation, and this is about making industry more accessible to players, why time gate copies instead of just letting people buy however many copies they want?

Is this really just to try and further incentivise alt accounts for the few people still playing to try and increase your revenue? because this just seems to be further damaging to the game itself.

I thought the idea of this was to "fix" the broken mechanics of the schematic system but instead you are doubling down on the worst most restrictive mechanics to further gate production, what is the point of this?
 
So the band aid holding the entire game's economy together will be a highly limited resource that can be gained in an infinitely increasing scale depending on how many accounts you're willing to pay for?

Ya you just put down a mining unit and visit it like once every 3 days to calibrate or something. The only "hand mining" is if u visit asteroids.  Their database couldnt handle all the digging or whatever, too expensive.

Its been a while, and I didn't realize that you no longer mine up voxels? o.O Wasn't the whole mining thing a big part of the game? So your saying folks just set up auto miners on the surface and then go collect the stuff periodically? I guess their voxel system is more broken and limited than I thought, as mining was one of the more enjoyable things I liked, hunting down ores deposits, creating data pads with results, selling those to the market.

How long have you been gone? Because NQ did a terrain wipe and reset, and then removed planet mining completely.  Its all auto-miners that afk put ore into containers.  

I doubt this, because i think it's a normal misconception. From my experience, pvpers are simply the loudmouthest forum/social media warriors in every game that offers pvp and pve together.

Well, this is basically a ban on solo players running big factories (like me).
People will be able to make a small range of stuff on the side, but dedicated industry is dead.

I do not think this will lower market prices (on the contrary: material cost is already not in line with the price of higher tier items), but it will succeed in banning industry as an specialism.

Together with the (probable) upcoming wipe it kind of rules me out for coming back to the game because the industry is what I liked most since Alpha.

My background. I played Eve Online as a manufacturer/researcher/miner. DU is basically copying Eve Online in the same steps they used to create their system it appears. The reason I left Eve Online is because I had 18 characters (equal to 6 paid accounts) just to build ships that took me and another persons with a set of highly skilled toons to build huge ships. It took 10 months to build and assemble the ships. Blueprint originals, Blueprint copies, Blueprint research and efficiency queues, moon goo mining, mining with lasers, protections to mine, paying people for moons to mine, paying people to live in the sector, paying taxes on everything. Yes I made a profit and I spent $90/month on the accounts and my partner spent another $90/month.
 
Now DU, you can probably see why I left. And my friends left after many years as things kept getting more complex and time consuming. It took way to much time and resources to build anything. It didn't happen in a day, it progressed that way after many years.
 
My recommendation, destroy the schematics, create the machines that will produce the items as you did before with the following changes, A basic level refiner can create basic level ore without schematics (its built into the machine), do this with all the machines. Just tier the 5 levels until the exotics are insanely expensive to limit the use. It still takes a ton of time to create 1 exotic part so the market will not be flooded with T5 and T4 equipment assuming a player base is continually building.
 
Remember KISS. Yes, every programmer, life cycle specialist and computer guru should know this. It also keep the backend mechanics of the game to be cheaper and much easier to change. Also, you can add new parts easily at will. Object Oriented Programming - just add it to the machine.
 
You can also add a T6 BP, that requires all T5 schematics to build super rare and valuable treasures that may be found throughout the world. 
 
I will not play a more complex and time consuming game. Time is to valuable to waste. Complexity is geared towards such a small niche of gamer that I would be afraid the game would not expand its player base all that well.
 
Just my 2 cents.
 
Thanks

This I do not understand.
 
We were  supposed to enter totally empty alien planet in a spaceship and start there from the scratch.
In this original scenario only way to proceed is to be self-sufficient.
Bigger goals maybe by small groups or later in orgs, but self-sufficient still.
 
Now we got tens of fully furnished markets all over the planets in this whole solar system. Who build them. Not us; which we were supposed to build.
 
If ever we can find a new solar system or new planet, will those be full of Market buildings even before one human has stepped down from a ship after finding it?
How to colonies new planets if we can not be self sufficient?
 
This handhelding Themepark game is not what I opted in at Kickstarter.
 
Before 0.23 there was lots of in-game interactions. Game was alive and fun. Schematics killed all of that. 
 
Interactions between players will newer happen by force. No way!
NQ: Stop this interactions by force nonsense
 
Interactions will only happen if we, the players, choose to do so.
 
Edit:
ps. How will using markets create interactions between players???
I can do most of my business anonymously and remotely. Even if I visit marketplace I newer interact with a player "because doing business." Current markets just do not need or enable player-interactions.
 
Before 0.23 we had lots of group-game-play operations, Mining ops, Hauling stuff for org members (way before missions), building together, helping to fix ships, rescue missions, manufacturing for other org members, you name it, we did it.
None of those required interventions by Aphelia nor using Markets.
 
We avoided markets because of all that junk and lag there. Some created own in-org markets by using dispensers in a creative way.
I created small factory and org members started to bring in ore and I manufactured (only) what they needed.
Our small org had only 3 factories, other members were using our services.
Building "‘build-it-all’ Mega factory" was in our plans as a Shared Org - project. What was wrong in that???
 
We did not need guidance by Aphelia or NQ.
 
Who ever said there was not enough interactions before 0.23 did lye.
 
Secondly:
 ‘build-it-all’ factory manufactures nothing. Nothing at all. Running that kind of factory is a huge effort which only few players want to do.
‘build-it-all’ factory actually creates interactions and enables group-game-play. Manufacturing only few items and selling them at markets kills interactions.
Also factories mostly produce elements which have no use as they are when they appear into container. Those elements only enables further more advanced game-play such as PVP, ship building (both for pvp and other ships) . etc.
 
 

This game needs fun, and adding more micromanagement tedium is generally not considered fun by players..

Honestly, I think this new proposed system is even worse than the current implementation of schematics. First, because it adds yet another two chores for the players, which are:
- Babysitting your character's schematic copying queue
- Going through each and every machine putting down new schematics
 
Let's get this out and clear, the whole point of industry and factories in a game is to automate things you don't want to do manually. If players were into having to babysit their stuff like this the nanopack would have way more usage than it currently does.
 
This new feature isn't gonna add more "fun" or "engagement" to the game, but just add yet another artificial limitation. You keep promoting the game as a player-driven sandbox but also try to mold it in your own ways, meanwhile things that should be given a bit more of attention, such as the gameplay department of "things to do inside the game" is lacking, specially after you're past the grinding part and into the "let's have fun" part, and adding a chore to the game won't fix that.
Like, why would someone pay a subscription of something where the only thing they have to do is to once in a while copy some schematics or calibrate miners, but have nothing actually fun to do?
 
Also, this new approach to schematics gives alt-account players yet another benefit. By this point I honestly think it's something intentional or by design, like an attempt at bringing P2W into DU but not in a very explicit way. I know NQ is desperate about money and keeping afloat, but maybe you should look into other ways of making an income, maybe letting players buy merch or even talent points and quanta, at least you would be honest about it.
 
Finally, if you guys want to make DU something cool and attractive, then why not look into stuff such as NPC fights or in-game events? Or lore and community quests? I mean, it's way better than adding yet another babysitting/chore "feature" that sounds worse than the already bad schematics we currently have...

As a solo player I can say this... you took a system that worked fine (but took forever to build) and [filtered]ed it up with schematics, and with this change I don't feel like you are going back in the "fun" direction... feels like you are going further into what's wrong with the current system...
 
For a game about building stuff, you seem to love to put roadblocks in front of builders...
 
Edit: I just realized you are implementing the equivalent of microtransactions for schematics...

economic stability, how do you figure they can archive that with people leaving the game?
 
the servers are not the resource, the players are the resources, NQ needs to gain and retain users badly
 
 

This is honestly one of the most ill-conceived ideas to ever hit DU.
 
Just get rid of schematics.
That's the end-result that you are going for, but you're trying to get there in the most needlessly confusing way possible.
 
Cut out all the nonsense. Look at the goal you are trying to achieve, and the most fun and satisfying way you can deliver it to players. That way is to just get rid of schematics.

Sounds like another step away from player driven economy.
Producing items consume schematics copies.
Copying schematics will cost "a small fee".
This will create new TAX
 
Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big.
 
Great TAX simulator
 
 

At first read this sounds even more cumbersome and tedious than the current implementation. It also sounds completely unrealistic.
 
Can we please see this in action on PTS BEFORE you finalise the system and implement it.

Sometimes I wish they'd knock everything down completely and start over with the latest technology. The time they've spent so far is then a learning phase for the studio.

Once again, as predicted in the PTS feedback thread, NQ launches the update no matter how buggy it is. One of their flagship new features is still [filtered]ed.
 
GI off

 
GI on

 
The ground is lit up far in the background. Come on, this was reported right away on PTS.
 

The glass furnaces are lighting up the ground for 500+ meters. Just to the left of those transfer units, you may see a tiny construct in the distance. That's a hair over 500 meters away.
 

Ground lit up again
 
And after walking forward a bit

 
This feature is ready for live servers? Has this received _any_ testing before or after PTS?
 
Same shit, different patch.

The core explosion is cute and all, but I feel you guys should make the effect so large that it can be seen from far, far away - up to 2su. It would be cool if you could see someone's core explode after you kill them in pvp. As it is, no one is going to see that effect - not the aggressor, and of course not the person who got destroyed.
 
If NQ wants to really improve the visuals of a battle, you guys need to render all weapon effects for everyone on the battlefield. It would make things so much cooler and interactive if we could see crisscrossing lasers and railguns everywhere.
 
I'm looking forward to the SSGI/SSAO. Ship interiors have long been too dark, even with many lights placed. Hopefully it works as advertised in those infographics. It didn't seem to do much on the PTS.

No it is not all dogmatic opinion, you know it's not. 
You, and all the other 'no wipe', are just trying to protect your ill-gotten gains because that is the only thing you have left to argue over.  You're not fooling anyone, we can see you.  The excuses you come up with are so bad. 
The current player base can not support the game, or their would be no wipe...  Catering to a group that gives your game no chance of success is not good business.  You have to cater to a group that gives you a chance.  
Coming into a game where the twinkerbells have cornered the markets and grossly overpower the new players, at launch, is insane.  That does not create a welcome atmosphere...  
With a wipe, You will have a legit advantage in the game at launch with knowledge.
Why is your ill-gotten, massive, advantage more important than the health of the game?

Your point of view might be right ,but first of all i'm not so confident in the altruistic nature of perfect strangers: if you do something you do it for your own gain not for the desire to be the good Samaritan. and above all what you suggest is to leave everything as it is so there is no solution whatsoever in the short or long term. At this point I ask you what need is there to formalize the release of the game? And why start this title that has now reached such a level where many have already developed everything, you can already find everything you need around, and why should I sponsor this title in my community of players? moving in here en masse when that minimum of competition you can draw from this game  it's over? Honestly, as a new player who wants to play a similar game, I am not interested in what others have done and in finding the food ready, I am interested in what I can do with my friends. After all, the game is all here, if you remove this aspect too, there is really nothing left.