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MrMeaner

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  1. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to blazemonger in A credible source said DU might wipe, heres the reasoning as well as my thoughts   
    A wipe some time prior to release is not a matter of if but when IMO.
     
    I can see NQ doing it prior to implementing Energy, which may well coincide with the PVP revamp being released, for what I'd consider very obvious reasons being that many bases will no longer function in the location they are now due to the random allocation of the energy value on the tiles. That is something that simply can't be "fixed" without one of two things happening; NQ wipes or orgs will need to (en-mass) move their bases which effectively achieves the same thing. The only other way would be to magically have "big) org bases being settled on tiles that happen to receive a good energy value which would probably cause quite a stir, intentional or not.
     
    The only thing I hope NQ will do there is not hand out magic blueprints but normal ones as well as return Talent points to the pool.
     
    This will repair all damage from previous loopholes/mistakes/exploits. I feel that orgs that are well organized will be able to rebuild very quickly and it will refresh a lot of interest in the game from (former) players as well as bring in new ones. I do feel that NQ will need to be sure they can from that wipe commit to no further ones as this would happen past the second half of the year, creeping up to their "release" date.
     
     
  2. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to blazemonger in Pity - this game had such potential...   
    The schematics system in itself is fine, it works perfectly in EVE and that is what NQ is shooting for here. But they forgot that in EVE there is a bit more to this than just popping a schematic into an industry unit and neglected to consider/implement the game loops that actually feed into this one to make it work.
     
    NQ is just in way over their heads with DU and they seem unable to properly manage the progress of development, rushing from one band aid to the next while the bleeding underneath just continues untreated.
     
    DU still has massive potential and promise, the question is whether NQ in it's current state with its current company culture is able to be the company to bring that out to the surface.
     
  3. Like
    MrMeaner got a reaction from Hazaatan in So, when is the game getting rolled back?   
    You forget NQ's  mo.  They will just ban the players who bought schematics.
  4. Like
    MrMeaner got a reaction from OrionSteed in So, when is the game getting rolled back?   
    You forget NQ's  mo.  They will just ban the players who bought schematics.
  5. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to Lachenlaud in [Discuss] We've Heard You!   
    If its free and ya don't 'like' it - you can say... "Well it was free....."
    If someone 'gave' me a car and I drove it for the summer and it died - that car didn't owe me anything. 
    If I BOUGHT a car and spent US$20,000 dollars on it and it broke down after a summer of driving... I'd be more inclined to be upset about it.  
     
    Its not really about the money though - people have been putting a LOT of time into this game as players - You can't give someone something fantastic and then suddenly change it up so dramatically and expect them to 'happy' about it.  The fact that they 'paid' for it is just the frosting on the cake.  Had some of these changes come in more gradually or been tested (and when I say tested for gods sake NQ - PLAY YOUR OWN DAMNED GAME SO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW PLAYERS WILL FEEL - you're all too disconnected from what PLAYERS experience!)  Stop looking at things as formulae or algorithms.   You can't 'math' up a solution nor should you.  GET INSIDE the players heads - experience what they do.  THEN you'll understand.  
     
    The BEST games I've ever played are those where the Devs ACTUALLY PLAYED.  They had to constrain themselves (No God Powers) while doing it to fully understand.  And when they did, the discoveries they made drove them to create an awesome player experience. 
  6. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to Alpinesun in [Discuss] We've Heard You!   
    A welcome start but actually not the root of the industry issues.
     
    The reason why people are being seen to 'solo' or 'self sufficient' is that the fundamental backbone of the markets is broken, absolutely broken and removing the desire to collaborate. The reason? Bots.
     
    Bots are placing buy items in the market place and poisonings the market flow down. To make it worse, its being done at the source with ore which is amazingly overvalued. Ore is key as its the starting block of the supply chain and an artificial high in value then creates no desire for anyone to refine, create and then sell their items into the supply chain. Generating a real supply and demand equilibrium will never take hold, and the desire to build industry and actually sell items to other players, or build consortiums to provide goods and services will never materialise. Right now the ore is at a price that's too good to miss and selling it back into the system is the easiest and quickest way to break the recession that 0.23 placed on the community.
     
    Remove the bots, let the true supply and demand take a hold, watch the markets grow and stabilise and watch industry grow in the way it was intended, to sustain the wider community and provide a genuine game mechanic.
     
    "The great virtue of a free market system is that...it is the most effective system we have discovered to enable people who hate one another to deal with one another and help one another" - Milton Friedman
     
     
  7. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to blazemonger in [Discuss] We've Heard You!   
    While I appreciate Naunet posting this, I hear JC talking in this post. And this is where you show us you do not actually understand your own game NQ.
     
    I predicted that this "we heard you" would be a clever spin attempt on the unrest and feedback by not really changing anything and by not actually acknowledging NQ is working backwards. This is all about NQ's fear of losing their player base and they think that will happen because we get bored of the existing gameplay. Meanwhile several streamers have dropped DU from their schedules as their content pretty much dries up with these changes which make it impossible for them to build an interesting and fun experience for their viewership. The statistics do not lie and the count of DU streamers is generally low single digits with low triple number viewer counts and declining.
     
    You heard nothing really NQ, you just decided that you did not explain yourself clear enough because you are right and everyone else just does not understand so you try again.. 
     
     
    The ones playing in full autonomy are actually the ones who are the least impacted by these changes; the big orgs. They have stockpiled materials and mass produced components and elements prior to the0.23 rollout due to prior knowledge of the changes.
     
    Big organisator have no need to use the markets. They are entirely self sufficient and inward looking and as such are a major part of why the economy does not start. Amongst other things, we saw that expensive elements were massively bought up as soon as the dev blog dropped (as in almost instantly) and  prior to this there was a sudden high demand for L cores with many bought up as well. We now know why. Small groups and solo players do not have a problem using markets if there is supply which really is not the case for many items. The reason is that the big orgs build their own stuff for themselves and may only drop stuff on the markets if they have surplus. Also if someone would start to sell items, they would generally get bought up en mass and put back on the market at higher prices or surplus would be put on the markets at prices which undercut by so much that the small guy's revenue stream pretty much dries up instantly.
     
    Industry at scale is now pretty much the sole domain of the big orgs with deep pockets and the rest is left to pick up the scraps. orgs can and will not determine what is or is not on market and at what price. the changes as they are pretty much lock  out the rest as the initial investment is too much with the very limited resources to pay for them and at the same time resources now are pretty much used to buy stuff, not to build stuff.. Ore has become the actual currency in the game. And these latest changes will not make a difference there as te damage is already done.
     
    It just feels like JC/NQ want to build a RL simulator and by pushing that idea, no matter what we bring to the table, problem is that a game first and foremost needs to be _FUN_ .. If I were into what JC wants to achieve I'd study economics and get a job to match. I do not need a second job really.
     
    Overall I'd say you may have heard us NQ, but you failed to listen. You just think you are rights and everyone else is wrong. I've said it before, the industry changes are fine in itself but they should be put in after you facilitate the means to achieve building industry. Your attempt  at justification for the changes both misses the point and is quite contradictory to your intent. Here is how I believe this could work and maintain engagement for your player base:
     
    Bring in means to make more money and get set up in game. Develop fun ways to go out and enjoy or create content, gaining assets in the process. Seed the _world_ with valuable items for the markets which will allow PLAYERS to trade with PLAYERS and not seed markets using bots. Create a need/desire to co operate by bringing engaging and challenging events to the game on a permanent basis. Create opportunity for the many smart and creative players by exposing data that drives content creation that aids the game.  
    And more but these things have been brought up so many times by now it's clear NQ has no intention to consider anything but their own reality bubble vision which entirely originates form what JC wants and not what the players are actually doing, asking for, looking  for, talking about.
     
    0.23 spans the cart  before the horse, it's actually a pretty cool cart but without the horse the players are left to pull it themselves which turns the game into a grind of massive proportions. Yes what is suggested above will create wealth for players and would make the existing (pre 0.23) game design not viable but guess what, it would create interest and engagement form the community and player base to the point  where (I absolutely believe) NQ would be able to bring in the 0.23 changes with a wipe as it is clear that it would not be long for us to rebuild with all the fun stuff to do in game.
     
    I believe many are against a wipe because of the massive grind it would take to rebuild. I also believe that once the game shows the potential to rebuild quickly and grow into the changes 0.23 offers this becomes more of a challenge than a grind and that is where it becomes interesting. More people wil band together and co-operate, the massive benefits and advantages gained from exploits, loopholes and favors for some is cleared and the large orgs wil l still have a big but fair advantage due to their numbers..
     
    Don't "hear" NQ, listen.. It's hard, I know, and it may mean you will have to (further) change your initial and current ideas but you will gain an important thing, a player base which is engaged and active, building tools, setting examples and co-operating in and outside of the game.. Just like I still hope you originally intended the game to be.
     
    DU is too great a promise with too much potential to be stifled and eroded by a false sense of missing your vision, it's not doing that and your game now belongs to the players, you should cater to their needs and wants where you can while using your vision as a guide, not a rulebook.
  8. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to echa in Some serious questions for JC   
    While I'm sure he's an absolutely brilliant AI engineer, JC is utterly incompetent at game design.
     
    With pvp as broken as it is, there were really only 3 attractions to the game: mining, industry, and building. There's a reason everyone was building their own giga factory. There's simply nothing else to do.
     
    You could mine and sell ore then buy elements or mine and build your own industry. Most everyone opted for building their own industry because it's both easier and a more efficient use of time.
     
    They noticed that markets weren't being used so instead of adding more content to allow players to do something other than mining and industry they simply took away industry. You can't immediately remove 50% of a game's content overnight and expect everyone to be happy. I'm honestly shocked that NQ/JC either didn't anticipate the backlash or simply didn't care.
     
    What do we have now? Mine for ore, sell it,  then build stuff. There's literally nothing else in the game. No way to make money besides mining. This patch should have been deployed after implementing additional mechanics for making money. As it stands now, you mine to sell ore (at continuously dropping prices thanks to supply & demand) or you do... nothing.
     
    I'm actually impressed. I haven't seen this kind of incompetence in game design since no man's sky and even that was arguably more fraud and deceit than incompetence.
  9. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to CptLoRes in Continue playing or quit the game (after 0.23)   
    That's hardly fair. Industry was one of the few enjoyable aspects of this game. So it made sense for players to concentrate on that while waiting for the game to get a more complete loop and content. This is also why the player backlash to 0.23 has been so massive when NQ in their infinite wisdom decided to nuke industry from orbit, before they had added any alternative and enjoyable activities to the game.
     
    A monthly subscription for DU before 0.23 was already a hard sell, and after it is more or less impossible to justify.
     
  10. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to Mordgier in What would you change?   
    Get rid of schematics for the current schematic implementation.
     
    Warp Drives, L cores, AGG etc can be considered to be sufficiently advanced to need schematics. 
     
     
    Add true Tier 2 elements. These do require schematics. They are flat out better than T1 things like the current silly 'military engine'  - not a tradeoff in some way. Just - better but more complicated to make. Tier 2 can be bought for elements that do not have a T1 counterpart - like say AGG - or must be researched for things that do.
     
    Add Tier 3 elements - you cannot buy schematics for these. These are not elements we currently know how to make. These need to be researched from found artifacts. They are beyond current human technological level.
     
    Tier 4 element can be added later as schematics can only be acquired as finite drops in the game from events, rare wrecks etc. Call it alien tech or whatever...
     
    Researching a schematic requires you to feed an element into an analyzer which consumes the element but makes some progress towards producing a BP for the higher tier. For example:
     
    You progress your analysis for the BP based on integrity (number of repairs left before it's irreparable) times the simplicity (with some rng thrown in for lulz) of developing the BP. For example say you feed in an engine that has 1 repair left, the simplicity is rated say 5 so you roll the following:
     
    <integrity> * (RND(1,<simplicity>) - so you progress between 1-5 points out of 100 to get a BP for smashing up a busted engine. Feeding in a fresh engine could generate 3-15 points. Skills could be used to increase this.
     
     
    Tier 3 BPs can be analyzed from artifacts found mining asteroids or in wrecks. They should be made rare enough that it is impractical for an individual to try to find enough of a specific artifact to make progress towards a BP.
     
     
    Schematic are not limited to ship elements. You could research a tier 2 assembler that is faster than a tier 1 etc.
     
     
    The above I just pulled out of my ass......so feel free to critique, I won't cry.
     
    ----------------
     
     
    Fix mining. 
     
    Add construct mining elements that can be mounted on a XS or S core. They consume raw oxygen and hydrogen to run. (No I'm not going to make them run on ship fuel because that requires ore).  The construct is capable of mining in much larger spheres than the hand tool and mined ore is stored inside an ore container. The ore container cannot be looted by hand - can only be jettisoned in which case the ore is lost. You must fly your ship to a static construct or an L core construct that has an ore unloader which empties the container into a linked hub. 
     
    There are several goals here.
     
    1 - Get rid of handmining beyond early game. It's not fun. You now have to pilot a ship to mine so piloting skills - both character and player skills matter.
     
    2 - Add complexity to mining - your design actually matters as your construct has to be able to carry the ore out since you can't just empty it via link.  You can't just fly your ship off somewhere and mine away by hand - you need to bring your mining ship along and you can't just have a bunch of ore crates as you will want to unload it regularly to keep your mass down or you'll burn too much fuel for it to be viable - or get too heavy and stuck underground and have to jettison ore to get out.
     
    3 - Improves group mining ops by creating a scenario for a dedicated mining L core carrier loaded with XS mining ships and has an ore unloader that is able to empty them into it's containers. As an L core is the minimum size for a dynamic core mounted ore unloader it would be cost prohibitive to have individual players flying around in L cores just to mine (at least for now). Yes they could claim a tile, plop down a static core and an unloader but it would still expand the complexity as currently you do the same thing with dynamic s cores with a bunch of containers.
     
    Also just pulled the above out of my ass....but that's the direction I'd want mining in DU to go. 
     
     
     
  11. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to duldrome in Let's talk DU quits   
    dear NQ!
    adding a money sink in a game where there was implemented more and more money every day without any faucet was correct.
    enforcing more economic player interaction was also the right choice.
    but there the things you did right with 0.23 end
     
    what you did wrong was:
    1. you cant implement a money sink without having money generating activities that players can perform (npc missions or something)
    2. you cant make the major content(creating & maintaining industry) of the game difficult to access when you have no alternatives implemented
    3. your money sink is too expensive. how should i afford a container L schematic for 4.2mill when i get 100.000 or 150.000 per day?
     
    and don't think you can fool us. we know that 0.23 was mainly driven to create artificial content. like JC already said a couple weeks ago in an interview...he was unhappy with the fact that there was no late game and players reached the highest tier of capabilities in DU after 1-2 months
    but this is totally on you. you underestimated our autism. the moons are empty, the meganodes are claimed...
    to make you feel better: you're not the first game developer that steps into this trap. DU just got hit extra hard because we are not the ordinary gamegrinder-autists, we are eve online players
     
    so now what?
    roll back 0.23?
    im not sure about that
    work harder on npc-missions?
    i guess you are already heavily involved in developing them but you're far from finishing them. otherwise you would have released that patch first
    sit it out?
    i dont know either.
    ultimately we cant help you with this decision. we dont know about NQ financial situation or the status of current development.
    but one thing we can tell you: for gods sake you f***ed up! use this knowledge for your future progression on this game
     
    oh and when hiring game designers dont just pick the high tier ones, that code all day. pick some that also grinded the sh*t out of some games in their free time
  12. Like
    MrMeaner got a reaction from Ethariel in Let's talk DU quits   
    Blazemonger is correct, there is no main pillar.  There are different reasons people play games like this and PvP is just one of them.  A successful MMO gives different players incentives to play in a way that interacts with and supports all the other "pillars" of the game.  I've played this game obsessively since the beta launch and have recently run into a hard wall when I realized this game has fundamentally failed on every one of these pillars.  What has been created here is a beautiful framework with tons of potential, but the game itself is missing.  Just take a look at each of these pillars along with my personal ratings.
     
    1) RPG - Score 2 out of 10.  We have a set of worlds in a distant future and a minimal backstory, but that's about it.  There are no other aspects of RPG present.  There are no skills to hone, no factions to support or oppose, no arc of personal growth, no quests, no pve.   You can do nearly everything right from the start.  Those few things you need to unlock with a skill such as being able to place larger cores can just be put in a skill que, log out for a day and when you come back you are done.  As an industrialist I have access to build everything in the game right from the start.  All I need to do is have the materials and the appropriate industrial unit and I can on day 1 make the most advanced items in the game. 
     
    2) Exploration - Score 4 out of 10.  The worlds are quite beautiful when they finally load in.  I have spent a lot of time flying around just to see the different type of landscapes, however flying 5 hours to another planet does not make for compelling gameplay.  Once you have seen the sights the only real reason to explore is to look for mining resources.  If mining isn't your thing then this pillar runs pretty flat.  Without creatures or any type of PVE, the worlds feel sterile.
     
    4) Social - Score 3 out of 10.  I'm primarily a solo player, or only run with my small group of friends.  However, that being said, I enjoy games where I feel like the world is alive and what I do on a solo level somehow contributes to the playing community.  There seems to be no reason to interact with anyone.  Anybody can build anything, and nothing is ever destroyed.  There is nothing to strive for as a community, only your personal goals.   Here lately I don't get the sense that there is anybody else out there.  I can go weeks without even seeing another player if I don't go to one of the districts.
     
    5) Economy - Score 0 out of 10.  To me this by far is their biggest failure.  These developers have absolutely no clue how to create a functioning economy.  If you want to make a player driven economy you can't have bots.   If you don't want a player driven economy then you need to develop the whole system yourself.  Half-assing it never works and using bots is half-assing it.  How do you get money?  Log in, or sell to bots.  Nothing which is built ever decays or disappears.  How can you call that a player driven economy?  What are your money sinks?  Bots and Territory markers.  That's it.  When I can make far more money selling the raw ore than I can selling finished product the economy is completely broken.
     
    6) Building - Score 5 out of 10.  This is to me where they have had the most succes.  The ability to terraform  and create your own bases and ships is pretty incredible.   However, as good as this ability is, it is very cumbersome and non-intuitive.  If I have to go outside the game to only to see the ridiculous and very time consuming steps I need to do in order to make even fairly basic shapes then as a developer you are doing it wrong.  You have created immense barriers to one of your best features.
     
    7) PVP - I will leave it unscored in that I have not personally engaged in PvP yet, however I will still classify it as a complete failure.  First off, you need 2 people, or yourself and al alt in order to PvP??  That alone is such a baffling decision and is one of the big reasons I have never bothered.   What I have seen on youtube of PvP looks completely lifeless and boring.  My gamestyle is geared more to mining and crafting but I very much like the idea of building bases and becoming an industrialist in a high-risk environment.  The only problem is so far it's the empty promise of a high risk environment.  Decisions on building ships, bases, factories, and supply routes all depend on what the PvP environment is and of right now it's just not present.  If I build a base or a space station will it be safe?  Don't know, that system isn't present.   If it's not safe what kind of defenses would be practical?  Don't know, that system isn't present.  How will I dodge pirates when seeking  materials?  Don't care.. not worth flying 4+ hours and spending the time to set up a base and mining operation when I have no idea if I'll be able to keep anything or how risky it will be to fly materials back because the territory PVP system doesn't exist yet.  As of right now it seems like it would be relatively safe in that I am hearing all the PvP players are quitting because they are bored.  What sort of items should I manufacture?  Answer - Nothing.  It's more efficient to sell raw ore and buy anything I need.    No point in building anything for PvP either because nothing is ever destroyed.
     
    Now I understand there are "big things to come" but the very basic things which make a game a game worth playing are simply missing.  It may be a sandbox, but there isn't much sand.  This game in it's current "beta" state is like being asked to test drive really nice looking sports car.  It looks great from the outside but when i get in there is no steering wheel, no gas tank and no engine.  I'm asked to imagine and get excited about the roar of the engine coming to life sometime perhaps in the next year.  Imagine how it will handle the corners and check out the awesome high-tech navigation system we have planned to implement in the future.  Why did you ask me to pay for the opportunity to test drive a pretty shell not even capable of driving?
     
    I see the potential for this game and still have high hopes of what it could be, however I have very little confidence they will actually pull it off.  There needs to be far more game theory and far less "tech demo" of a single shard universe.  No point in making a single shard universe that is lifeless and absent players because those who are interested came, saw, and left.   You have lost a lot of good will from what would have been your most loyal fans by releasing this in the utterly incomplete state its in.
     
     
     
     
       
  13. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to blazemonger in How to give PRO feedback!   
    NQ is trying to sell an early alpha state development as a released game in beta as a paid for live service game. They are not owning up to their commitment and promises set out starting from kickstarter and continue to water down the game.
     
    They are trying to make things work but due to the way they designed the game are not able to build complete game loops to facilitate that and seem unwilling to make changes to be able to actually do that by introducing PVE content which is needed to make mechanics work and instead think that they can save the game by introducing a Battle Royal mode and a creative sandbox mode.
     
    They think that the mission system is the silver bullet that will solve all problems, they think that by adding a magic "available power" number to tiles they can create power management that is immersive and attractive. They do not consider options and suggestion that actually trigger gameplay for all game play styles and make the game complex, strategic and emergent.
     
    If players find creative ways to play without affecting others, they nerf these options. If players find creative ways to play while impacting others  though creating obstacles and risk for others with the same end goal/effect, NQ thinks that's fine and really cool.
     
    They say that the industry changes are what was always intended but they were not ready and the result was that  too many player got to "endgame" content (whatever that means) too fast.. Thing is, the changes do not take that endgame content away, it just denies those that did not get there yet for whatever reason the ability to do so while the ones that did will be able to carry on . NQ pretty much is of the opinion that as a solo player or small group you have no problem as you can just pay others whatever they want to ask for by using te markets.
     
    Large orgs can isolate entirely from the in game economy and fend for themselves regardless of the changes because it hardly affects them as they have already stocked up and have so much money they can just blanket buy what other will have to work weeks, if not months for to get to. _THAT_  is what the economy is not starting, the isolationist behavior is not with the "small guy", it is with the big orgs who have build their own infrastructure internally, and did so to some degree by using early exploits, loopholes and possibly insider info, and have zero need or incentive to use or feed markets/the economy outside of dumping surplus at whatever price they desire to set for it and/or use their position to undercut and push out anyone trying to get a piece of the pie.
     
    Yes, it would certainly cause a setback for many who worked hard to build a small business for themselves in game but the only way to correct the stranglehold the big orgs already have on the game will be to wipe and allow everyone to build their dream on even footing after massive changes are introduced which really are the definition of alpha state of development for a game.
     
     
    To quote myself from Discord;
     

     
     
     
    And yes, I do feel I am being "clear, polite and to the point."
     
     
  14. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to JoeKing in Addictive to tedious in one move....   
    I’m a new player, I started about 2 months ago as a way to escape the drudgery of the current endless Covid lockdowns.
    When I signed up for Dual Universe, I was inspired by the idea that I could take the game at my own pace and build a world for me, in the way that I wanted, that I could explore space and build amazing things.  I don’t class myself as a gamer, I’m not interested in PvP or combat, but I I love sci-fi, enjoy escapism and being able to create.
    Your game seemed to have everything I wanted, and although some elements were a bit tedious – mining, unrelenting crashes whilst learning to fly and the subsequent repairs to name a couple, I persevered because I was progressing. It felt that possibility was always within my reach, I just needed to do a little bit more, work a little harder, and that’s what kept me reaching and growing.
    This new patch has, in one stroke, removed all the joy, possibility, fun and scope for new players like me.  I don’t want to be part of an Organisation – I was sold the idea that ‘I could be anything I wanted to be’.  But that’s simply not true anymore.
    I implore you NQ – PLEASE think about the experience for new players, this game had such possibily and was truly inspiring. I have absolutely loved playing it and even though I couldn’t compete, or wanted to, with the big orgs it was truly great to immerse myself in this world.
    You’ve created a perfect storm for new players:
    Building your first ship is now out of reach. Even if you manage to build one, core & component damage now means learning to fly a ship will be impossible. Travelling to and from markets is long and dull with your free speeder as there are no territories near any markets on Sanctuary with a shuttle. Even if you do want to spend ages trailing backwards and forwards, you cant carry much. Blueprints are ridiculously expensive, so now you cannot invest your money in industry to convert your ore into usable money, as all the lower price blueprints will produce products that will no doubt flood the market, have little value, and therefore have no profit. Assuming you can get off planet, you have hours of flying to reach anywhere with ore of any significance, assuming you make it there and back in one piece now warp drives are so utterly unreachable. I didn’t sign up to a space-mining, economics simulator game -  I wanted to engage with what was sold to me through all the marketing; and that’s certainly not hours of doing nothing interesting to get nowhere.
    Unfortunately, you’ve made it utterly dull, with the potential for fun so far out of reach that its honestly not worth the time or money for me.
    I really hope you fix this – it had huge potential, and I honestly cant remember a game I enjoyed as much as this, but I think you’ve just shut the doors on new players and shot yourselves in the foot.
    I genuinely, genuinely hope you listen to everyone and you make a success of Dual Universe, it is (was) special, I’m just gutted its been ruined for me.
     


  15. Like
    MrMeaner reacted to Underhook in Why resub?   
    I joined the game on 24th of Sept.  They have very generously given me an extra month too.  
    Whilst I'm frightened by the new patch I definitely believe its necessary.  I also believe that the game will need more massive rebalance patches in the future especially once PvP gets going.
    The way I see it the game is still in an alpha state.  Its been sold as beta so people have beta expectations.  IMO it wont be out of alpha until territory atmo warfare is launched. Which if le-souriceau post is right wont be for 7 or 8 months.  That is when I think a lot of players would return or join for the 1st time.  I don't think there is much point getting people back before then.  To sum up, the player base has dropped because people were sold beta but got alpha, so no point getting them back until its in a beta state.  Lets hop the money does not run out before then 
  16. Like
    MrMeaner got a reaction from Hiturn in Let's talk DU quits   
    Blazemonger is correct, there is no main pillar.  There are different reasons people play games like this and PvP is just one of them.  A successful MMO gives different players incentives to play in a way that interacts with and supports all the other "pillars" of the game.  I've played this game obsessively since the beta launch and have recently run into a hard wall when I realized this game has fundamentally failed on every one of these pillars.  What has been created here is a beautiful framework with tons of potential, but the game itself is missing.  Just take a look at each of these pillars along with my personal ratings.
     
    1) RPG - Score 2 out of 10.  We have a set of worlds in a distant future and a minimal backstory, but that's about it.  There are no other aspects of RPG present.  There are no skills to hone, no factions to support or oppose, no arc of personal growth, no quests, no pve.   You can do nearly everything right from the start.  Those few things you need to unlock with a skill such as being able to place larger cores can just be put in a skill que, log out for a day and when you come back you are done.  As an industrialist I have access to build everything in the game right from the start.  All I need to do is have the materials and the appropriate industrial unit and I can on day 1 make the most advanced items in the game. 
     
    2) Exploration - Score 4 out of 10.  The worlds are quite beautiful when they finally load in.  I have spent a lot of time flying around just to see the different type of landscapes, however flying 5 hours to another planet does not make for compelling gameplay.  Once you have seen the sights the only real reason to explore is to look for mining resources.  If mining isn't your thing then this pillar runs pretty flat.  Without creatures or any type of PVE, the worlds feel sterile.
     
    4) Social - Score 3 out of 10.  I'm primarily a solo player, or only run with my small group of friends.  However, that being said, I enjoy games where I feel like the world is alive and what I do on a solo level somehow contributes to the playing community.  There seems to be no reason to interact with anyone.  Anybody can build anything, and nothing is ever destroyed.  There is nothing to strive for as a community, only your personal goals.   Here lately I don't get the sense that there is anybody else out there.  I can go weeks without even seeing another player if I don't go to one of the districts.
     
    5) Economy - Score 0 out of 10.  To me this by far is their biggest failure.  These developers have absolutely no clue how to create a functioning economy.  If you want to make a player driven economy you can't have bots.   If you don't want a player driven economy then you need to develop the whole system yourself.  Half-assing it never works and using bots is half-assing it.  How do you get money?  Log in, or sell to bots.  Nothing which is built ever decays or disappears.  How can you call that a player driven economy?  What are your money sinks?  Bots and Territory markers.  That's it.  When I can make far more money selling the raw ore than I can selling finished product the economy is completely broken.
     
    6) Building - Score 5 out of 10.  This is to me where they have had the most succes.  The ability to terraform  and create your own bases and ships is pretty incredible.   However, as good as this ability is, it is very cumbersome and non-intuitive.  If I have to go outside the game to only to see the ridiculous and very time consuming steps I need to do in order to make even fairly basic shapes then as a developer you are doing it wrong.  You have created immense barriers to one of your best features.
     
    7) PVP - I will leave it unscored in that I have not personally engaged in PvP yet, however I will still classify it as a complete failure.  First off, you need 2 people, or yourself and al alt in order to PvP??  That alone is such a baffling decision and is one of the big reasons I have never bothered.   What I have seen on youtube of PvP looks completely lifeless and boring.  My gamestyle is geared more to mining and crafting but I very much like the idea of building bases and becoming an industrialist in a high-risk environment.  The only problem is so far it's the empty promise of a high risk environment.  Decisions on building ships, bases, factories, and supply routes all depend on what the PvP environment is and of right now it's just not present.  If I build a base or a space station will it be safe?  Don't know, that system isn't present.   If it's not safe what kind of defenses would be practical?  Don't know, that system isn't present.  How will I dodge pirates when seeking  materials?  Don't care.. not worth flying 4+ hours and spending the time to set up a base and mining operation when I have no idea if I'll be able to keep anything or how risky it will be to fly materials back because the territory PVP system doesn't exist yet.  As of right now it seems like it would be relatively safe in that I am hearing all the PvP players are quitting because they are bored.  What sort of items should I manufacture?  Answer - Nothing.  It's more efficient to sell raw ore and buy anything I need.    No point in building anything for PvP either because nothing is ever destroyed.
     
    Now I understand there are "big things to come" but the very basic things which make a game a game worth playing are simply missing.  It may be a sandbox, but there isn't much sand.  This game in it's current "beta" state is like being asked to test drive really nice looking sports car.  It looks great from the outside but when i get in there is no steering wheel, no gas tank and no engine.  I'm asked to imagine and get excited about the roar of the engine coming to life sometime perhaps in the next year.  Imagine how it will handle the corners and check out the awesome high-tech navigation system we have planned to implement in the future.  Why did you ask me to pay for the opportunity to test drive a pretty shell not even capable of driving?
     
    I see the potential for this game and still have high hopes of what it could be, however I have very little confidence they will actually pull it off.  There needs to be far more game theory and far less "tech demo" of a single shard universe.  No point in making a single shard universe that is lifeless and absent players because those who are interested came, saw, and left.   You have lost a lot of good will from what would have been your most loyal fans by releasing this in the utterly incomplete state its in.
     
     
     
     
       
  17. Like
    MrMeaner got a reaction from XKentX in Let's talk DU quits   
    Blazemonger is correct, there is no main pillar.  There are different reasons people play games like this and PvP is just one of them.  A successful MMO gives different players incentives to play in a way that interacts with and supports all the other "pillars" of the game.  I've played this game obsessively since the beta launch and have recently run into a hard wall when I realized this game has fundamentally failed on every one of these pillars.  What has been created here is a beautiful framework with tons of potential, but the game itself is missing.  Just take a look at each of these pillars along with my personal ratings.
     
    1) RPG - Score 2 out of 10.  We have a set of worlds in a distant future and a minimal backstory, but that's about it.  There are no other aspects of RPG present.  There are no skills to hone, no factions to support or oppose, no arc of personal growth, no quests, no pve.   You can do nearly everything right from the start.  Those few things you need to unlock with a skill such as being able to place larger cores can just be put in a skill que, log out for a day and when you come back you are done.  As an industrialist I have access to build everything in the game right from the start.  All I need to do is have the materials and the appropriate industrial unit and I can on day 1 make the most advanced items in the game. 
     
    2) Exploration - Score 4 out of 10.  The worlds are quite beautiful when they finally load in.  I have spent a lot of time flying around just to see the different type of landscapes, however flying 5 hours to another planet does not make for compelling gameplay.  Once you have seen the sights the only real reason to explore is to look for mining resources.  If mining isn't your thing then this pillar runs pretty flat.  Without creatures or any type of PVE, the worlds feel sterile.
     
    4) Social - Score 3 out of 10.  I'm primarily a solo player, or only run with my small group of friends.  However, that being said, I enjoy games where I feel like the world is alive and what I do on a solo level somehow contributes to the playing community.  There seems to be no reason to interact with anyone.  Anybody can build anything, and nothing is ever destroyed.  There is nothing to strive for as a community, only your personal goals.   Here lately I don't get the sense that there is anybody else out there.  I can go weeks without even seeing another player if I don't go to one of the districts.
     
    5) Economy - Score 0 out of 10.  To me this by far is their biggest failure.  These developers have absolutely no clue how to create a functioning economy.  If you want to make a player driven economy you can't have bots.   If you don't want a player driven economy then you need to develop the whole system yourself.  Half-assing it never works and using bots is half-assing it.  How do you get money?  Log in, or sell to bots.  Nothing which is built ever decays or disappears.  How can you call that a player driven economy?  What are your money sinks?  Bots and Territory markers.  That's it.  When I can make far more money selling the raw ore than I can selling finished product the economy is completely broken.
     
    6) Building - Score 5 out of 10.  This is to me where they have had the most succes.  The ability to terraform  and create your own bases and ships is pretty incredible.   However, as good as this ability is, it is very cumbersome and non-intuitive.  If I have to go outside the game to only to see the ridiculous and very time consuming steps I need to do in order to make even fairly basic shapes then as a developer you are doing it wrong.  You have created immense barriers to one of your best features.
     
    7) PVP - I will leave it unscored in that I have not personally engaged in PvP yet, however I will still classify it as a complete failure.  First off, you need 2 people, or yourself and al alt in order to PvP??  That alone is such a baffling decision and is one of the big reasons I have never bothered.   What I have seen on youtube of PvP looks completely lifeless and boring.  My gamestyle is geared more to mining and crafting but I very much like the idea of building bases and becoming an industrialist in a high-risk environment.  The only problem is so far it's the empty promise of a high risk environment.  Decisions on building ships, bases, factories, and supply routes all depend on what the PvP environment is and of right now it's just not present.  If I build a base or a space station will it be safe?  Don't know, that system isn't present.   If it's not safe what kind of defenses would be practical?  Don't know, that system isn't present.  How will I dodge pirates when seeking  materials?  Don't care.. not worth flying 4+ hours and spending the time to set up a base and mining operation when I have no idea if I'll be able to keep anything or how risky it will be to fly materials back because the territory PVP system doesn't exist yet.  As of right now it seems like it would be relatively safe in that I am hearing all the PvP players are quitting because they are bored.  What sort of items should I manufacture?  Answer - Nothing.  It's more efficient to sell raw ore and buy anything I need.    No point in building anything for PvP either because nothing is ever destroyed.
     
    Now I understand there are "big things to come" but the very basic things which make a game a game worth playing are simply missing.  It may be a sandbox, but there isn't much sand.  This game in it's current "beta" state is like being asked to test drive really nice looking sports car.  It looks great from the outside but when i get in there is no steering wheel, no gas tank and no engine.  I'm asked to imagine and get excited about the roar of the engine coming to life sometime perhaps in the next year.  Imagine how it will handle the corners and check out the awesome high-tech navigation system we have planned to implement in the future.  Why did you ask me to pay for the opportunity to test drive a pretty shell not even capable of driving?
     
    I see the potential for this game and still have high hopes of what it could be, however I have very little confidence they will actually pull it off.  There needs to be far more game theory and far less "tech demo" of a single shard universe.  No point in making a single shard universe that is lifeless and absent players because those who are interested came, saw, and left.   You have lost a lot of good will from what would have been your most loyal fans by releasing this in the utterly incomplete state its in.
     
     
     
     
       
  18. Like
    MrMeaner got a reaction from Noddles in Let's talk DU quits   
    Blazemonger is correct, there is no main pillar.  There are different reasons people play games like this and PvP is just one of them.  A successful MMO gives different players incentives to play in a way that interacts with and supports all the other "pillars" of the game.  I've played this game obsessively since the beta launch and have recently run into a hard wall when I realized this game has fundamentally failed on every one of these pillars.  What has been created here is a beautiful framework with tons of potential, but the game itself is missing.  Just take a look at each of these pillars along with my personal ratings.
     
    1) RPG - Score 2 out of 10.  We have a set of worlds in a distant future and a minimal backstory, but that's about it.  There are no other aspects of RPG present.  There are no skills to hone, no factions to support or oppose, no arc of personal growth, no quests, no pve.   You can do nearly everything right from the start.  Those few things you need to unlock with a skill such as being able to place larger cores can just be put in a skill que, log out for a day and when you come back you are done.  As an industrialist I have access to build everything in the game right from the start.  All I need to do is have the materials and the appropriate industrial unit and I can on day 1 make the most advanced items in the game. 
     
    2) Exploration - Score 4 out of 10.  The worlds are quite beautiful when they finally load in.  I have spent a lot of time flying around just to see the different type of landscapes, however flying 5 hours to another planet does not make for compelling gameplay.  Once you have seen the sights the only real reason to explore is to look for mining resources.  If mining isn't your thing then this pillar runs pretty flat.  Without creatures or any type of PVE, the worlds feel sterile.
     
    4) Social - Score 3 out of 10.  I'm primarily a solo player, or only run with my small group of friends.  However, that being said, I enjoy games where I feel like the world is alive and what I do on a solo level somehow contributes to the playing community.  There seems to be no reason to interact with anyone.  Anybody can build anything, and nothing is ever destroyed.  There is nothing to strive for as a community, only your personal goals.   Here lately I don't get the sense that there is anybody else out there.  I can go weeks without even seeing another player if I don't go to one of the districts.
     
    5) Economy - Score 0 out of 10.  To me this by far is their biggest failure.  These developers have absolutely no clue how to create a functioning economy.  If you want to make a player driven economy you can't have bots.   If you don't want a player driven economy then you need to develop the whole system yourself.  Half-assing it never works and using bots is half-assing it.  How do you get money?  Log in, or sell to bots.  Nothing which is built ever decays or disappears.  How can you call that a player driven economy?  What are your money sinks?  Bots and Territory markers.  That's it.  When I can make far more money selling the raw ore than I can selling finished product the economy is completely broken.
     
    6) Building - Score 5 out of 10.  This is to me where they have had the most succes.  The ability to terraform  and create your own bases and ships is pretty incredible.   However, as good as this ability is, it is very cumbersome and non-intuitive.  If I have to go outside the game to only to see the ridiculous and very time consuming steps I need to do in order to make even fairly basic shapes then as a developer you are doing it wrong.  You have created immense barriers to one of your best features.
     
    7) PVP - I will leave it unscored in that I have not personally engaged in PvP yet, however I will still classify it as a complete failure.  First off, you need 2 people, or yourself and al alt in order to PvP??  That alone is such a baffling decision and is one of the big reasons I have never bothered.   What I have seen on youtube of PvP looks completely lifeless and boring.  My gamestyle is geared more to mining and crafting but I very much like the idea of building bases and becoming an industrialist in a high-risk environment.  The only problem is so far it's the empty promise of a high risk environment.  Decisions on building ships, bases, factories, and supply routes all depend on what the PvP environment is and of right now it's just not present.  If I build a base or a space station will it be safe?  Don't know, that system isn't present.   If it's not safe what kind of defenses would be practical?  Don't know, that system isn't present.  How will I dodge pirates when seeking  materials?  Don't care.. not worth flying 4+ hours and spending the time to set up a base and mining operation when I have no idea if I'll be able to keep anything or how risky it will be to fly materials back because the territory PVP system doesn't exist yet.  As of right now it seems like it would be relatively safe in that I am hearing all the PvP players are quitting because they are bored.  What sort of items should I manufacture?  Answer - Nothing.  It's more efficient to sell raw ore and buy anything I need.    No point in building anything for PvP either because nothing is ever destroyed.
     
    Now I understand there are "big things to come" but the very basic things which make a game a game worth playing are simply missing.  It may be a sandbox, but there isn't much sand.  This game in it's current "beta" state is like being asked to test drive really nice looking sports car.  It looks great from the outside but when i get in there is no steering wheel, no gas tank and no engine.  I'm asked to imagine and get excited about the roar of the engine coming to life sometime perhaps in the next year.  Imagine how it will handle the corners and check out the awesome high-tech navigation system we have planned to implement in the future.  Why did you ask me to pay for the opportunity to test drive a pretty shell not even capable of driving?
     
    I see the potential for this game and still have high hopes of what it could be, however I have very little confidence they will actually pull it off.  There needs to be far more game theory and far less "tech demo" of a single shard universe.  No point in making a single shard universe that is lifeless and absent players because those who are interested came, saw, and left.   You have lost a lot of good will from what would have been your most loyal fans by releasing this in the utterly incomplete state its in.
     
     
     
     
       
  19. Like
    MrMeaner got a reaction from le_souriceau in Let's talk DU quits   
    Blazemonger is correct, there is no main pillar.  There are different reasons people play games like this and PvP is just one of them.  A successful MMO gives different players incentives to play in a way that interacts with and supports all the other "pillars" of the game.  I've played this game obsessively since the beta launch and have recently run into a hard wall when I realized this game has fundamentally failed on every one of these pillars.  What has been created here is a beautiful framework with tons of potential, but the game itself is missing.  Just take a look at each of these pillars along with my personal ratings.
     
    1) RPG - Score 2 out of 10.  We have a set of worlds in a distant future and a minimal backstory, but that's about it.  There are no other aspects of RPG present.  There are no skills to hone, no factions to support or oppose, no arc of personal growth, no quests, no pve.   You can do nearly everything right from the start.  Those few things you need to unlock with a skill such as being able to place larger cores can just be put in a skill que, log out for a day and when you come back you are done.  As an industrialist I have access to build everything in the game right from the start.  All I need to do is have the materials and the appropriate industrial unit and I can on day 1 make the most advanced items in the game. 
     
    2) Exploration - Score 4 out of 10.  The worlds are quite beautiful when they finally load in.  I have spent a lot of time flying around just to see the different type of landscapes, however flying 5 hours to another planet does not make for compelling gameplay.  Once you have seen the sights the only real reason to explore is to look for mining resources.  If mining isn't your thing then this pillar runs pretty flat.  Without creatures or any type of PVE, the worlds feel sterile.
     
    4) Social - Score 3 out of 10.  I'm primarily a solo player, or only run with my small group of friends.  However, that being said, I enjoy games where I feel like the world is alive and what I do on a solo level somehow contributes to the playing community.  There seems to be no reason to interact with anyone.  Anybody can build anything, and nothing is ever destroyed.  There is nothing to strive for as a community, only your personal goals.   Here lately I don't get the sense that there is anybody else out there.  I can go weeks without even seeing another player if I don't go to one of the districts.
     
    5) Economy - Score 0 out of 10.  To me this by far is their biggest failure.  These developers have absolutely no clue how to create a functioning economy.  If you want to make a player driven economy you can't have bots.   If you don't want a player driven economy then you need to develop the whole system yourself.  Half-assing it never works and using bots is half-assing it.  How do you get money?  Log in, or sell to bots.  Nothing which is built ever decays or disappears.  How can you call that a player driven economy?  What are your money sinks?  Bots and Territory markers.  That's it.  When I can make far more money selling the raw ore than I can selling finished product the economy is completely broken.
     
    6) Building - Score 5 out of 10.  This is to me where they have had the most succes.  The ability to terraform  and create your own bases and ships is pretty incredible.   However, as good as this ability is, it is very cumbersome and non-intuitive.  If I have to go outside the game to only to see the ridiculous and very time consuming steps I need to do in order to make even fairly basic shapes then as a developer you are doing it wrong.  You have created immense barriers to one of your best features.
     
    7) PVP - I will leave it unscored in that I have not personally engaged in PvP yet, however I will still classify it as a complete failure.  First off, you need 2 people, or yourself and al alt in order to PvP??  That alone is such a baffling decision and is one of the big reasons I have never bothered.   What I have seen on youtube of PvP looks completely lifeless and boring.  My gamestyle is geared more to mining and crafting but I very much like the idea of building bases and becoming an industrialist in a high-risk environment.  The only problem is so far it's the empty promise of a high risk environment.  Decisions on building ships, bases, factories, and supply routes all depend on what the PvP environment is and of right now it's just not present.  If I build a base or a space station will it be safe?  Don't know, that system isn't present.   If it's not safe what kind of defenses would be practical?  Don't know, that system isn't present.  How will I dodge pirates when seeking  materials?  Don't care.. not worth flying 4+ hours and spending the time to set up a base and mining operation when I have no idea if I'll be able to keep anything or how risky it will be to fly materials back because the territory PVP system doesn't exist yet.  As of right now it seems like it would be relatively safe in that I am hearing all the PvP players are quitting because they are bored.  What sort of items should I manufacture?  Answer - Nothing.  It's more efficient to sell raw ore and buy anything I need.    No point in building anything for PvP either because nothing is ever destroyed.
     
    Now I understand there are "big things to come" but the very basic things which make a game a game worth playing are simply missing.  It may be a sandbox, but there isn't much sand.  This game in it's current "beta" state is like being asked to test drive really nice looking sports car.  It looks great from the outside but when i get in there is no steering wheel, no gas tank and no engine.  I'm asked to imagine and get excited about the roar of the engine coming to life sometime perhaps in the next year.  Imagine how it will handle the corners and check out the awesome high-tech navigation system we have planned to implement in the future.  Why did you ask me to pay for the opportunity to test drive a pretty shell not even capable of driving?
     
    I see the potential for this game and still have high hopes of what it could be, however I have very little confidence they will actually pull it off.  There needs to be far more game theory and far less "tech demo" of a single shard universe.  No point in making a single shard universe that is lifeless and absent players because those who are interested came, saw, and left.   You have lost a lot of good will from what would have been your most loyal fans by releasing this in the utterly incomplete state its in.
     
     
     
     
       
  20. Like
    MrMeaner got a reaction from Emptiness in Let's talk DU quits   
    Blazemonger is correct, there is no main pillar.  There are different reasons people play games like this and PvP is just one of them.  A successful MMO gives different players incentives to play in a way that interacts with and supports all the other "pillars" of the game.  I've played this game obsessively since the beta launch and have recently run into a hard wall when I realized this game has fundamentally failed on every one of these pillars.  What has been created here is a beautiful framework with tons of potential, but the game itself is missing.  Just take a look at each of these pillars along with my personal ratings.
     
    1) RPG - Score 2 out of 10.  We have a set of worlds in a distant future and a minimal backstory, but that's about it.  There are no other aspects of RPG present.  There are no skills to hone, no factions to support or oppose, no arc of personal growth, no quests, no pve.   You can do nearly everything right from the start.  Those few things you need to unlock with a skill such as being able to place larger cores can just be put in a skill que, log out for a day and when you come back you are done.  As an industrialist I have access to build everything in the game right from the start.  All I need to do is have the materials and the appropriate industrial unit and I can on day 1 make the most advanced items in the game. 
     
    2) Exploration - Score 4 out of 10.  The worlds are quite beautiful when they finally load in.  I have spent a lot of time flying around just to see the different type of landscapes, however flying 5 hours to another planet does not make for compelling gameplay.  Once you have seen the sights the only real reason to explore is to look for mining resources.  If mining isn't your thing then this pillar runs pretty flat.  Without creatures or any type of PVE, the worlds feel sterile.
     
    4) Social - Score 3 out of 10.  I'm primarily a solo player, or only run with my small group of friends.  However, that being said, I enjoy games where I feel like the world is alive and what I do on a solo level somehow contributes to the playing community.  There seems to be no reason to interact with anyone.  Anybody can build anything, and nothing is ever destroyed.  There is nothing to strive for as a community, only your personal goals.   Here lately I don't get the sense that there is anybody else out there.  I can go weeks without even seeing another player if I don't go to one of the districts.
     
    5) Economy - Score 0 out of 10.  To me this by far is their biggest failure.  These developers have absolutely no clue how to create a functioning economy.  If you want to make a player driven economy you can't have bots.   If you don't want a player driven economy then you need to develop the whole system yourself.  Half-assing it never works and using bots is half-assing it.  How do you get money?  Log in, or sell to bots.  Nothing which is built ever decays or disappears.  How can you call that a player driven economy?  What are your money sinks?  Bots and Territory markers.  That's it.  When I can make far more money selling the raw ore than I can selling finished product the economy is completely broken.
     
    6) Building - Score 5 out of 10.  This is to me where they have had the most succes.  The ability to terraform  and create your own bases and ships is pretty incredible.   However, as good as this ability is, it is very cumbersome and non-intuitive.  If I have to go outside the game to only to see the ridiculous and very time consuming steps I need to do in order to make even fairly basic shapes then as a developer you are doing it wrong.  You have created immense barriers to one of your best features.
     
    7) PVP - I will leave it unscored in that I have not personally engaged in PvP yet, however I will still classify it as a complete failure.  First off, you need 2 people, or yourself and al alt in order to PvP??  That alone is such a baffling decision and is one of the big reasons I have never bothered.   What I have seen on youtube of PvP looks completely lifeless and boring.  My gamestyle is geared more to mining and crafting but I very much like the idea of building bases and becoming an industrialist in a high-risk environment.  The only problem is so far it's the empty promise of a high risk environment.  Decisions on building ships, bases, factories, and supply routes all depend on what the PvP environment is and of right now it's just not present.  If I build a base or a space station will it be safe?  Don't know, that system isn't present.   If it's not safe what kind of defenses would be practical?  Don't know, that system isn't present.  How will I dodge pirates when seeking  materials?  Don't care.. not worth flying 4+ hours and spending the time to set up a base and mining operation when I have no idea if I'll be able to keep anything or how risky it will be to fly materials back because the territory PVP system doesn't exist yet.  As of right now it seems like it would be relatively safe in that I am hearing all the PvP players are quitting because they are bored.  What sort of items should I manufacture?  Answer - Nothing.  It's more efficient to sell raw ore and buy anything I need.    No point in building anything for PvP either because nothing is ever destroyed.
     
    Now I understand there are "big things to come" but the very basic things which make a game a game worth playing are simply missing.  It may be a sandbox, but there isn't much sand.  This game in it's current "beta" state is like being asked to test drive really nice looking sports car.  It looks great from the outside but when i get in there is no steering wheel, no gas tank and no engine.  I'm asked to imagine and get excited about the roar of the engine coming to life sometime perhaps in the next year.  Imagine how it will handle the corners and check out the awesome high-tech navigation system we have planned to implement in the future.  Why did you ask me to pay for the opportunity to test drive a pretty shell not even capable of driving?
     
    I see the potential for this game and still have high hopes of what it could be, however I have very little confidence they will actually pull it off.  There needs to be far more game theory and far less "tech demo" of a single shard universe.  No point in making a single shard universe that is lifeless and absent players because those who are interested came, saw, and left.   You have lost a lot of good will from what would have been your most loyal fans by releasing this in the utterly incomplete state its in.
     
     
     
     
       
  21. Like
    MrMeaner got a reaction from sHuRuLuNi in Let's talk DU quits   
    Blazemonger is correct, there is no main pillar.  There are different reasons people play games like this and PvP is just one of them.  A successful MMO gives different players incentives to play in a way that interacts with and supports all the other "pillars" of the game.  I've played this game obsessively since the beta launch and have recently run into a hard wall when I realized this game has fundamentally failed on every one of these pillars.  What has been created here is a beautiful framework with tons of potential, but the game itself is missing.  Just take a look at each of these pillars along with my personal ratings.
     
    1) RPG - Score 2 out of 10.  We have a set of worlds in a distant future and a minimal backstory, but that's about it.  There are no other aspects of RPG present.  There are no skills to hone, no factions to support or oppose, no arc of personal growth, no quests, no pve.   You can do nearly everything right from the start.  Those few things you need to unlock with a skill such as being able to place larger cores can just be put in a skill que, log out for a day and when you come back you are done.  As an industrialist I have access to build everything in the game right from the start.  All I need to do is have the materials and the appropriate industrial unit and I can on day 1 make the most advanced items in the game. 
     
    2) Exploration - Score 4 out of 10.  The worlds are quite beautiful when they finally load in.  I have spent a lot of time flying around just to see the different type of landscapes, however flying 5 hours to another planet does not make for compelling gameplay.  Once you have seen the sights the only real reason to explore is to look for mining resources.  If mining isn't your thing then this pillar runs pretty flat.  Without creatures or any type of PVE, the worlds feel sterile.
     
    4) Social - Score 3 out of 10.  I'm primarily a solo player, or only run with my small group of friends.  However, that being said, I enjoy games where I feel like the world is alive and what I do on a solo level somehow contributes to the playing community.  There seems to be no reason to interact with anyone.  Anybody can build anything, and nothing is ever destroyed.  There is nothing to strive for as a community, only your personal goals.   Here lately I don't get the sense that there is anybody else out there.  I can go weeks without even seeing another player if I don't go to one of the districts.
     
    5) Economy - Score 0 out of 10.  To me this by far is their biggest failure.  These developers have absolutely no clue how to create a functioning economy.  If you want to make a player driven economy you can't have bots.   If you don't want a player driven economy then you need to develop the whole system yourself.  Half-assing it never works and using bots is half-assing it.  How do you get money?  Log in, or sell to bots.  Nothing which is built ever decays or disappears.  How can you call that a player driven economy?  What are your money sinks?  Bots and Territory markers.  That's it.  When I can make far more money selling the raw ore than I can selling finished product the economy is completely broken.
     
    6) Building - Score 5 out of 10.  This is to me where they have had the most succes.  The ability to terraform  and create your own bases and ships is pretty incredible.   However, as good as this ability is, it is very cumbersome and non-intuitive.  If I have to go outside the game to only to see the ridiculous and very time consuming steps I need to do in order to make even fairly basic shapes then as a developer you are doing it wrong.  You have created immense barriers to one of your best features.
     
    7) PVP - I will leave it unscored in that I have not personally engaged in PvP yet, however I will still classify it as a complete failure.  First off, you need 2 people, or yourself and al alt in order to PvP??  That alone is such a baffling decision and is one of the big reasons I have never bothered.   What I have seen on youtube of PvP looks completely lifeless and boring.  My gamestyle is geared more to mining and crafting but I very much like the idea of building bases and becoming an industrialist in a high-risk environment.  The only problem is so far it's the empty promise of a high risk environment.  Decisions on building ships, bases, factories, and supply routes all depend on what the PvP environment is and of right now it's just not present.  If I build a base or a space station will it be safe?  Don't know, that system isn't present.   If it's not safe what kind of defenses would be practical?  Don't know, that system isn't present.  How will I dodge pirates when seeking  materials?  Don't care.. not worth flying 4+ hours and spending the time to set up a base and mining operation when I have no idea if I'll be able to keep anything or how risky it will be to fly materials back because the territory PVP system doesn't exist yet.  As of right now it seems like it would be relatively safe in that I am hearing all the PvP players are quitting because they are bored.  What sort of items should I manufacture?  Answer - Nothing.  It's more efficient to sell raw ore and buy anything I need.    No point in building anything for PvP either because nothing is ever destroyed.
     
    Now I understand there are "big things to come" but the very basic things which make a game a game worth playing are simply missing.  It may be a sandbox, but there isn't much sand.  This game in it's current "beta" state is like being asked to test drive really nice looking sports car.  It looks great from the outside but when i get in there is no steering wheel, no gas tank and no engine.  I'm asked to imagine and get excited about the roar of the engine coming to life sometime perhaps in the next year.  Imagine how it will handle the corners and check out the awesome high-tech navigation system we have planned to implement in the future.  Why did you ask me to pay for the opportunity to test drive a pretty shell not even capable of driving?
     
    I see the potential for this game and still have high hopes of what it could be, however I have very little confidence they will actually pull it off.  There needs to be far more game theory and far less "tech demo" of a single shard universe.  No point in making a single shard universe that is lifeless and absent players because those who are interested came, saw, and left.   You have lost a lot of good will from what would have been your most loyal fans by releasing this in the utterly incomplete state its in.
     
     
     
     
       
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